You and I are defining tradition differently. I'm not talking about historical wins/loss and I'm not talking about the "Game of the Century" in the 1940s. The current tradition (which includes attendance, TV, tailgating, merchandise, etc) of the Iron Bowl is much, much higher than the Army/Navy.
FC: So now, the Pac 12 players demand a 50/50 split in revenue.
- Thread starter BUFFALO LION
- Start date
If you're paying football players that serves as a feeder program to the NFL, you have a minor league. You may not reference it as such, but that's what it is.
So again, how many teams do you have in your minor football league?
You're obviously not being very persuasive in this discussion. Image trying to persuade all of the University Presidents that they should drop nearly all of their sports programs
As it is, players are currently being compensated in the form of scholarships, room & board, health insurance, and even dirty old cash. If I had my druthers, I'd like to see them have a choice between cash and the other stuff. Not sure why that makes it more of a "minor league."
I wouldn't even try to persuade a college president to do what I think is right. I mean why pay someone more when the current system is set up so there is no need? It would just be a colossal waste of time and Momma didn't bring no fools into this world.
But I will tell you that change is coming. Fvckwad Emmert doesn't sweat bullets before Congress because he enjoys it. There are reasons he's lobbying for anti-trust protection for the NCAA and the first is they don't got it.
I could outline a proposal of how the new college football landscape would work, but I ain't doin' work for no damn college presidents fer nothin. Like I said, Momma didn't birth no fools.
It's a minor league because it turns students into professional athletes. Not sure why this is hard to grasp.
I'm fine with a minor league. But make it separate from the college model.
Some would be nowhere if we're sticking to an Ivy admissions model. For the others, you'd see a major shift in talent distribution. Major beneficiaries would be a lot of A5 schools. Places like WVU, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, and Arkansas would be sitting pretty.
Could not even begin to tell you how many would be sitting by the wayside. If it's a lot and the NFL became concerned over the quality of its product I'd expect them to do something.
I have no trouble grasping it. Just trying to figure out why some seem to think that the current college football setup isn't a minor league.
The nfl had a great developmental league. It was called nfl europe. They didn't want to fund it, so they nixed it.
If we can all agree there is blatant cheating going on, why do we give a schit if they pay the players. For FREE, I watch GREAT college football every fall on TV. Who gives a rip how the product is delivered. I only ask State to be relevant, and they deliver.
But even NFL Europe followed the same entry/eligibility rules as the NFL. So if a kid doesn't make it to the college level because of grades, he has no future. From my years of following recruiting, that hasn't seemed to translate into large numbers. Follow an Ivy League model and you'll see larger numbers and a major talent shift.
Absolutely. They could rebuild it, or something along the lines, if the need arises. But why do it if you have a ginormous, I mean we're talking of hundreds of college teams, feeder system for free.
Not all good football players have sub-par educations. Further, the concept may put more pressure on high school student-athlete's to spend more time on classwork.
However, I'd like to point out that the Ivies will take better athlete's at the left end of their respective bell curves.
Of course the Ivies take athletes on the left side of the curve. Indeed, you'll find most of the athletes there. I'll also point out that there are quantitative limits to the numbers they can take the further one gets from the mean.
I don't doubt that there are many athletes who are prepared for college. But if the Ivy model is employed the standard they are going against are increasing admissions criteria in most P5 schools. There are reasons that the NCAA admissions standards are so pathetic.There are reasons the NCAA ceased publishing by school the average SAT score of its entering recruiting class. None of those reasons are because the academic credentials sparkle.
You're correct that more stringent admissions standards for athletes should cause them to to put more emphasis on their schoolwork. Wonder why that thought hasn't occurred to those responsible for making policy in that area
If you went with a true Ivy League setup, and made it uniform across the P-5, the schools you mentioned may actually be at a disadvantage. A standardized, definitive Academic Index consisting of their two SAT scores and their high school GPA, combined with financial aid based strictly on their family's household income, would help Universities with access to kids from states with better educational systems.
Whereas the Ivys do vary somewhat in their financial aid packages, the P-5 could make it uniform across the P-5 (wrt student athletes) based strictly on financial need. Free tuition and room and board for families making up to $60,000, with rolling aid packages the higher up the income scale you go.
Most important, keep the overall Academic Index uniform and definitive among all P-5 universities. Use the Ivy method of slotting recruits based on their rank on the index. For example. At least 6 recruits in the top fourth quadrant, at least 13 more in no lower than the second quadrant, at least 4 more in no lower than the third quadrant, and 2 allowable in the lowest quadrant.
I have always liked the Ivy model better, and think Joe strived to get as close to that as he could within the parameters he was dealing with. He went with the system as it was presented to him, and his Great Experiment got closer to the Ideal than any coach in history has been able to get.
Other than a completely divested minor league facade run by outside owners, paying football players and making them "employees" of the University will get you wrapped up in court battles faster than your head can spin.
Don't believe that anyone was considering that the Ivy approach would extend beyond admission of athletes. Financial aid policies of the Ivy League schools apply to all students and are based solely on financial need. The only P5 school that comes to mind of being that generous is Stanford. Not aware of any others and I'm reasonably sure Penn State isn't.
I don't have a a particular opinion on this either way. One thing it will do is increase the likelihood that the NFL takes a serious look setting up its own minor and/or drafting kids out of high school, which is a net positive.
That's why I put "wrt student athletes" in parentheses. I highly doubt all P-5 schools could extend full financial aid to their entire student bodies as the Ivys do, based on income. However the rest of the student body, as opposed to the Ivys, would not have to meet the same Academic Index criteria as the student athletes. That can vary by University.
The Student Athlete Academic Index, based on both SAT I, SAT II, and high school GPA, would be definitive and the same throughout the entire P-5.
Why go through all of these contortions? Use an Academic Index to govern admissions of athletes and continue to award full athletic scholarships. If schools are allowed to individually determine how much financial aid to provide athletes as exceptions to general policies, why not skip the niceties and just pay 'em?
The combination of Financial need and Academic Index gives you a definitive pay scale to work with wrt ALL student athletes, not just football players. Just a guess, but I would think a female tennis player would qualify for far less aid than a 5 star running back would, based on family income.
They remain "students". Not "employees". And the female tennis player's financial aid package is based on the same criteria as the 5 star running back's package is. The figures would be standardized and the same throughout the entire P-5.
You talk "contortions". First, give me your pay scale. And next, tell me how you are going to keep it out of the courts.
So you propose to:
a. narrow the choices that many prospects have, eliminating some completely; and
b. making it more expensive for some/many/most to attend?
Not sure how that's going to work out, but I don't believe it makes the college game better.
I would prefer to drop all sports, including football. Don't care to watch semi-pro ball with a university's name on the jersey. Extracurricular activities should remain voluntary. If the student is not happy with it, they don't have to participate.
It will make the UNIVERSITY better, and preserve sports programs for everyone within the current Title IX laws.
When PAC 12 football players threaten their Conference with the financial demands they are, at a time when there probably won't even be a season, it may be a good time to rethink the paradigm. Otherwise, college sports as we know it may go right down the shute.
I have often thought that this is like an apprenticeship (or Grad School). When you are learning a job (and most players are still learning football) you don't get paid as much and the company benefits from your labor--because it's not just the job, it's the education to do that job--and that takes time. Sure there's always an exception or two based on sheer talent--but even there, there's some players that I'm convinced would be better today had they been willing to listen to their coaches and learned how to play as a team.
Don't see how a football program, good or bad, makes anything more than a marginal contribution to the primary missions of a university, education and research. To the extent that they do, I would think that a good football team makes more of a contribution in terms of visibility, branding, forging of a unified identity, and maybe even cash.
If preserving sports programs and complying with Title IX is a goal, intramurals work just fine. Or a school could employ the Cooper Union model.
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
FB Recruiting Penn State commit visting Ohio State this weekend- Latest: Dylan Callaghan-Croley