Feeling a lot better after Illinois 2024 than Illinois 2023

[Delcolion915]

You're talking me into it.

Keep in mind that I never made a case to keep him in the status of #1 guy. In fact, I said in the OP that we have a problem at the kicking position.

I also confessed to feeling bad for the kid, which I do. I'm just a softie at heart. Never would have made it in the coaching profession.

Then again, it's easier to feel bad for him coming off a 14-point win. If he had missed a kick to lose a game, I'd probably feel worse for the rest of us.

I'm good with a change...but be careful what you ask for...it may not be what you think you're going to get...

The absolute worst thing that it can possibly be is exactly the same thing we have now: A kicker who cannot make easy field goals in games that matter. I'm VERY much being careful what I ask for and if there was ANY downside to a change I damn sure wouldn't be asking for it.

Right now they have a kicker who is incapable of performing on the big stage. If they make a change and it doesn't work, then they have another kicker who is incapable of making a field goal on a big stage. Same exact thing, but if they don't at least try it, they are not doing their job as coaches. We all feel bad for the kid, but this isn't little league with ice cream after the game, this is a major American sport with billions of dollars invested into it. As I said, the kid will feel a whole lot better without the pressure on him from the sidelines. Meyer made 17 out of 20 and even though it's Tulsa you can bet your ass their fan base would have been upset with him missing 67 percent of his kicks.

Another reason I want Meyer out there is just a hunch on my part, but...Meyer went to Mater Dei in Los Angeles and there is absolutely no high school program in America that is more big time and pressure filled than that. For some of these kids, you can't possibly quantify how it changes when suddenly you need to make a field goal in front of 110 thousand people wearing white, which matches the color of the goal posts, and the game in doubt. I want a kid who already knows what that feels like. I don't give a damn of his short field goals cross the uprights by 5 yards instead of Sahaydak hitting bombs that sail wide every time. I want three points. Let's go get three points and we can all apologize to the Sahaydak family after we finish in the top 11 and make the playoffs.

Deal?

 

[Jerry]

The absolute worst thing that it can possibly be is exactly the same thing we have now: A kicker who cannot make easy field goals in games that matter. I'm VERY much being careful what I ask for and if there was ANY downside to a change I damn sure wouldn't be asking for it.

Right now they have a kicker who is incapable of performing on the big stage. If they make a change and it doesn't work, then they have another kicker who is incapable of making a field goal on a big stage. Same exact thing, but if they don't at least try it, they are not doing their job as coaches. We all feel bad for the kid, but this isn't little league with ice cream after the game, this is a major American sport with billions of dollars invested into it. As I said, the kid will feel a whole lot better without the pressure on him from the sidelines. Meyer made 17 out of 20 and even though it's Tulsa you can bet your ass their fan base would have been upset with him missing 67 percent of his kicks.

Another reason I want Meyer out there is just a hunch on my part, but...Meyer went to Mater Dei in Los Angeles and there is absolutely no high school program in America that is more big time and pressure filled than that. For some of these kids, you can't possibly quantify how it changes when suddenly you need to make a field goal in front of 110 thousand people wearing white, which matches the color of the goal posts, and the game in doubt. I want a kid who already knows what that feels like. I don't give a damn of his short field goals cross the uprights by 5 yards instead of Sahaydak hitting bombs that sail wide every time. I want three points. Let's go get three points and we can all apologize to the Sahaydak family after we finish in the top 11 and make the playoffs.

Deal?

It will be interesting to see who gets the call this Saturday.

I understand that you feel strongly about this issue, but you're arguing as though I oppose a change of kickers, which is a position I did not take. I only said I felt bad for the kid. So did Franklin in his public comments after the game.

Yet at the end of the day, the coach will make a decision based not on the kid's feelings or yours or mine but rather on what is considered best for the team. Nobody is better placed to make that judgment than Franklin.

I'll pass on apologies but feel free to offer one yourself.

 

[Obliviax]

It will be interesting to see who gets the call this Saturday.

I understand that you feel strongly about this issue, but you're arguing as though I oppose a change of kickers, which is a position I did not take. I only said I felt bad for the kid. So did Franklin in his public comments after the game.

Yet at the end of the day, the coach will make a decision based not on the kid's feelings or yours or mine but rather on what is considered best for the team. Nobody is better placed to make that judgment than Franklin.

I'll pass on apologies but feel free to offer one yourself.

It is clear that Sander is pretty popular on the team. But let's face it, he wasn't getting it done. I agree, it will be interesting. We've got a game we should win in UCLA which gives us one game to get our kicking together. Then we play @USC, @Wiscy, tOSU and Washington. We'll need a kicker that we can rely on.

 

[tboyer]

This is the special teams coach's problem to solve. It might be a case where the best kicker in practice is not the best kicker in a stadium with 100k watching. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time.

But yes, it has to be solved and soon. Last time they couldn't rely on FGs was under O'Brien and they made the best of it designing an offense to make use of 4 downs. They may have to do that this year. The fact that Sander was allowed a 2nd attempt on Sat was probably not a good sign -- means the coaches really have no confidence in the other guys. Hmmm, is a mid-season transfer possible these days?

 

[Obliviax]

This is the special teams coach's problem to solve. It might be a case where the best kicker in practice is not the best kicker in a stadium with 100k watching. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time.

But yes, it has to be solved and soon. Last time they couldn't rely on FGs was under O'Brien and they made the best of it designing an offense to make use of 4 downs. They may have to do that this year. The fact that Sander was allowed a 2nd attempt on Sat was probably not a good sign -- means the coaches really have no confidence in the other guys. Hmmm, is a mid-season transfer possible these days?

Agree but how many of the kickers on the team have kicked in front of 100k fans? My point is that Sander, for whatever reason, isn't cutting it.

Now, it may be the snapper or the holder. To that point, you are correct, it is up to the special teams coach (with CJF oversight) to fix it. And we are running out of time.

 

[Jerry]

It is clear that Sander is pretty popular on the team. But let's face it, he wasn't getting it done. I agree, it will be interesting. We've got a game we should win in UCLA which gives us one game to get our kicking together. Then we play @USC, @Wiscy, tOSU and Washington. We'll need a kicker that we can rely on.

I'd be surprised if Sander is still the guy this Saturday. I mean, it seems like the UCLA game where we're a big favorite would be a good time to give somebody else a shot.

The coaches have said that Sander won the job fair and square in an actual kicking competition with the other two guys during preseason. So what does that say about them. I mean, if it were a slam-dunk decision, it would have been made already.

One thing for sure, if the coach sticks with Sander and the kid misses a critical or decisive kick against a team like USC, then there's gonna be hell to pay. The safer option at this point may be to try our luck with somebody else.

 

[Obliviax]

I'd be surprised if Sander is still the guy this Saturday. I mean, it seems like the UCLA game where we're a big favorite would be a good time to give somebody else a shot.

The coaches have said that Sander won the job fair and square in an actual kicking competition with the other two guys during preseason. So what does that say about them. I mean, if it were a slam-dunk decision, it would have been made already.

One thing for sure, if the coach sticks with Sander and the kid misses a critical or decisive kick against a team like USC, then there's gonna be hell to pay. The safer option at this point may be to try our luck with somebody else.

if it was me, and the second best kicker was close during practice kicks, he'd be taking the kicks against UCLA. In other words, I like Sander, but I'd bench him at this point.

 

[RickinDayton]

OK, try Barker but this needs to be done in a game like UCLA; not practice.

Yep.

 

[Delcolion915]

It will be interesting to see who gets the call this Saturday.

I understand that you feel strongly about this issue, but you're arguing as though I oppose a change of kickers, which is a position I did not take. I only said I felt bad for the kid. So did Franklin in his public comments after the game.

Yet at the end of the day, the coach will make a decision based not on the kid's feelings or yours or mine but rather on what is considered best for the team. Nobody is better placed to make that judgment than Franklin.

I'll pass on apologies but feel free to offer one yourself.

It only took 5 posts to draw you out for what I suspected: A Sander apologist. I'll pass on apologies also, but I will be right here this Saturday at 3:30 after Franklin replaces your kid with one who actually can make a field goal on a big stage

 

[Delcolion915]

Agree but how many of the kickers on the team have kicked in front of 100k fans? My point is that Sander, for whatever reason, isn't cutting it.

Now, it may be the snapper or the holder. To that point, you are correct, it is up to the special teams coach (with CJF oversight) to fix it. And we are running out of time.

But he WAS allowed a 2nd chance and he missed that one also. Hell, that was his 4th or 5th chance. By the way Barker's extra point cleared the crossbar by 3 feet.

Put the kid from Tulsa in and give him the same shot you gave Sahaydak.

 

[Jerry]

It only took 5 posts to draw you out for what I suspected: A Sander apologist. I'll pass on apologies also, but I will be right here this Saturday at 3:30 after Franklin replaces your kid with one who actually can make a field goal on a big stage

LOL. "Sanders apologist"? Where do you get that from?

Look, let me guess, you gave the 18 points and are really pissed that floundering Sander cost you money by missing the two field goals, which accounts for your fervor on this topic. I totally understand.

But your bank account aside, what I said was Franklin is in the best position to know who should kick, there will likely be a change this Saturday, and it's better to do it against a team like UCLA where we're heavily favored. Look it up...right here in the thread.

Also, I confess...I did say I felt bad for the kid after he missed two field goals. In fact, Franklin said the same after the game. So sue me...and the coach too.

 

[LandoComando]

LOL. "Sanders apologist"? Where do you get that from?

Look, let me guess, you gave the 18 points and are really pissed that floundering Sander cost you money by missing the two field goals, which accounts for your fervor on this topic. I totally understand.

But your bank account aside, what I said was Franklin is in the best position to know who should kick, there will likely be a change this Saturday, and it's better to do it against a team like UCLA where we're heavily favored. Look it up...right here in the thread.

Also, I confess...I did say I felt bad for the kid after he missed two field goals. In fact, Franklin said the same after the game. So sue me...and the coach too.

Ignore him--at no point were you an apologist--I was going to respond to that nonsense from him but then saw this
Feeling bad for the kid (shouldn't we always feel bad for them when they're putting in work and failing?) isn't the same as being an apologist.

 

[RickinDayton]

It only took 5 posts to draw you out for what I suspected: A Sander apologist. I'll pass on apologies also, but I will be right here this Saturday at 3:30 after Franklin replaces your kid with one who actually can make a field goal on a big stage

I think we all agree one of the others needs an in-game tryout but none of us know what the result will be. It must be attempted. Maybe the kicking duties get divided: Big #99 continues w/KOs, Sander continues PATs (he is 100%), and then Meyer or Barker kick FGs?
Coaching staff has to sort this out.

 

[Delcolion915]

LOL. "Sanders apologist"? Where do you get that from?

Look, let me guess, you gave the 18 points and are really pissed that floundering Sander cost you money by missing the two field goals, which accounts for your fervor on this topic. I totally understand.

But your bank account aside, what I said was Franklin is in the best position to know who should kick, there will likely be a change this Saturday, and it's better to do it against a team like UCLA where we're heavily favored. Look it up...right here in the thread.

Also, I confess...I did say I felt bad for the kid after he missed two field goals. In fact, Franklin said the same after the game. So sue me...and the coach too.

Your cheap shot at my gambling addiction is just a little bit more than my calling you out as an apologist. I guess the gloves are off. Point number one is that I have not gambled since my clean date, which is the same date I posted here in this forum. Nice job though of being a low class p.o.s. and bringing it up, all because I want to bench your beloved nephew Sander Sahaydak, who can kick the ball 400 yards but can't kick it straight when he's on TV, like "Michigan J. Frog", the singing opera frog who kept choking when the cameras were rolling.

Sorry but your boy isn't capable of doing the job, you can cry about after we pop the champagne in January when Chase Meyer kicks a 45 yarder to win the national championship.

 

[RickinDayton]

It is clear that Sander is pretty popular on the team. But let's face it, he wasn't getting it done. I agree, it will be interesting. We've got a game we should win in UCLA which gives us one game to get our kicking together. Then we play @USC, @Wiscy, tOSU and Washington. We'll need a kicker that we can rely on.

Your cheap shot at my gambling addiction is just a little bit more than my calling you out as an apologist. I guess the gloves are off. Point number one is that I have not gambled since my clean date, which is the same date I posted here in this forum. Nice job though of being a low class p.o.s. and bringing it up, all because I want to bench your beloved nephew Sander Sahaydak, who can kick the ball 400 yards but can't kick it straight when he's on TV, like "Michigan J. Frog", the singing opera frog who kept choking when the cameras were rolling.

Sorry but your boy isn't capable of doing the job, you can cry about after we pop the champagne in January when Chase Meyer kicks a 45 yarder to win the national championship.

Delco, thankful you are staying away from gambling. Continuing to pray 🙏 for you.

 

[Jerry]

Your cheap shot at my gambling addiction is just a little bit more than my calling you out as an apologist. I guess the gloves are off. Point number one is that I have not gambled since my clean date, which is the same date I posted here in this forum. Nice job though of being a low class p.o.s. and bringing it up, all because I want to bench your beloved nephew Sander Sahaydak, who can kick the ball 400 yards but can't kick it straight when he's on TV, like "Michigan J. Frog", the singing opera frog who kept choking when the cameras were rolling.

Sorry but your boy isn't capable of doing the job, you can cry about after we pop the champagne in January when Chase Meyer kicks a 45 yarder to win the national championship.

Sorry, I didn't know about your gambling addiction. Or else you maybe talked about it here and I didn't see it or forgot.

That aside, you're the one who started with the cheap shots here, pal, by your idiotic statement that I'm a "Sanders apologist" when I said nothing whatsoever to support such a conclusion. So you're not in a position to whine about cheap shots since you seem happy to deal in them.

Let's review some English vocabulary. "Apologist" means "defender." Quote me the lines where I defended Sander. I'll wait.

 

[lazydave841]

The fact that Sander was allowed a 2nd attempt on Sat was probably not a good sign

I don't think it was that near as much as hoping the kid could make a 2nd kick, regain his confidence and then we all live happily ever after...until another miss.

The fact Barker came in for an XP probably signifies that Sander is done this year (and it's happened twice already).

 

[Delcolion915]

I don't think it was that near as much as hoping the kid could make a 2nd kick, regain his confidence and then we all live happily ever after...until another miss.

The fact Barker came in for an XP probably signifies that Sander is done this year (and it's happened twice already).

Look, Jerry and his nephew aside, the fact is, they had to yank the kid last year after game ONE, and two very similar misses in a very similar game that could have cost this team a loss. If they hadn't of had to do that last year, I would probably be much more receptive to the idea that you can give the kid another shot.

But he has had shot, after shot, after shot and he misses every one them. I have no problem losing a game because we are outplayed, or beaten at the line of scrimmage, or beaten by a better team, or a myriad of other reasons, but I am not ok with losing a game because you can't make a chip shot field goal, OR because you need to go for it every time unless you get inside the 10 yard line.

 

[Delcolion915]

Delco, thankful you are staying away from gambling. Continuing to pray 🙏 for you.

Much appreciated man. It's not easy. I hit 5 meetings per week, I have yet to find a way to delete the threads on here about the spread, the constant draft kings and fan duel ads, etc.

My problem with the kicking game is that its the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about. I mean, look at these posts, nearly everything here is from the point of view of poor Sander, etc...

I don't mean to come off hard on the kid but this is clearly something the staff needs to address before the inevitable happens. Another elephant in the room is Saunders back there in one leg fair catching everything with no defenders within 15 yards of him. One of the reasons we lost to Ohio State last year was that very same issue when Hardy simply had to catch a punt and run 5 yards, and then he lets it roll 35 yards and game over.

Little things matter. They're the differences between #15 and the Citrus bowl or #4 and a first round bye.

 

[lazydave841]

If they hadn't of had to do that last year, I would probably be much more receptive to the idea that you can give the kid another shot.

Last year is irrelevant. Illinois was part of his 2nd shot this year. Unless Barker and Meyer both miss a couple, SS shouldn't kick again barring injuries.

 

[Delcolion915]

Last year is irrelevant. Illinois was part of his 2nd shot this year. Unless Barker and Meyer both miss a couple, SS shouldn't kick again barring injuries.

My point, precisely.

 

[87 Penn St8]

I don't think it was that near as much as hoping the kid could make a 2nd kick, regain his confidence and then we all live happily ever after...until another miss.

The fact Barker came in for an XP probably signifies that Sander is done this year (and it's happened twice already).

And it has happened 2 YEARS in a row too. The kicking position recruiting stats are all over the place.

When we signed Sander and Alex Baccheta we locked down 2 top recruits.

Unfortunately neither worked out on the field. Hell- Illinois had a 31 year old Australian guy punting....do you think he hits on the Freshmen girls in his PSYCH 101 class?

Totally unpredictable until they do it- or not. Ohio State lost in the playoffs last year when their All American mercenary that they poached from UNC choked. Can happen to anybody. UW's guy missed 3- including a potential game tying kick @ Rutgers last Friday night. Wake's kid missed a game tying kick too and his Coach is now on the Hot Seat for losing to Louisiana.

Meyer and/or Barker have earned the next man up by default. Hopefully one of the two takes the job and never sits down....but definitely time to roll the dice

 

[PurposePitch]

I wasn’t talking about their abilities at QB, I was talking about how better teams can defend it and I’m not sure how knowing it’s happening means they will be able to defend it…they know Whalen Allar is back there we’re either going to pass or hand off…and maybe Allar will run. That’s the same as when Warren is back there.

Not true. When Warren is out there, it’s MUCH more likely it’ll be a QB run. Ability as a QB matters. Defenses can sell out for the run with Warren at QB. If he happens to float a short pass, you deal with that, but they don’t have to plan to stop a “real” passing attack with Warren back there. Not to mention when Warren is the QB, they keep Allar out there, so that’s one less legit blocking or receiving threat out there to contend with.

 

[Jerry]

Last year is irrelevant. Illinois was part of his 2nd shot this year. Unless Barker and Meyer both miss a couple, SS shouldn't kick again barring injuries.

I pretty much agree with that which is why I plainly said here that a change is in order and will likely happen this Saturday.

I also said I felt bad for the kid. He worked hard only to fail in front of 100,000 people. It's absurd and idiotic to equate feeling bad for him with "defending" him. The emotion of empathy for those struggling is a feature of human decency.

 

[AWS1022]

Not true. When Warren is out there, it’s MUCH more likely it’ll be a QB run. Ability as a QB matters. Defenses can sell out for the run with Warren at QB. If he happens to float a short pass, you deal with that, but they don’t have to plan to stop a “real” passing attack with Warren back there. Not to mention when Warren is the QB, they keep Allar out there, so that’s one less legit blocking or receiving threat out there to contend with.

First of all, we don’t know what Warren is capable of doing back there (maybe that’s the reason they run that package). Secondly, they can sell out to stop the run, but they still have to decide to sell out to stop Warren keeping it or handing it off. When Tebow was a freshman, everyone knew when he came in he was going to run someone over or throw a jump pass, yet they couldn’t stop it.

 

[voltz99]

The absolute worst thing that it can possibly be is exactly the same thing we have now: A kicker who cannot make easy field goals in games that matter. I'm VERY much being careful what I ask for and if there was ANY downside to a change I damn sure wouldn't be asking for it.

Right now they have a kicker who is incapable of performing on the big stage. If they make a change and it doesn't work, then they have another kicker who is incapable of making a field goal on a big stage. Same exact thing, but if they don't at least try it, they are not doing their job as coaches. We all feel bad for the kid, but this isn't little league with ice cream after the game, this is a major American sport with billions of dollars invested into it. As I said, the kid will feel a whole lot better without the pressure on him from the sidelines. Meyer made 17 out of 20 and even though it's Tulsa you can bet your ass their fan base would have been upset with him missing 67 percent of his kicks.

Another reason I want Meyer out there is just a hunch on my part, but...Meyer went to Mater Dei in Los Angeles and there is absolutely no high school program in America that is more big time and pressure filled than that. For some of these kids, you can't possibly quantify how it changes when suddenly you need to make a field goal in front of 110 thousand people wearing white, which matches the color of the goal posts, and the game in doubt. I want a kid who already knows what that feels like. I don't give a damn of his short field goals cross the uprights by 5 yards instead of Sahaydak hitting bombs that sail wide every time. I want three points. Let's go get three points and we can all apologize to the Sahaydak family after we finish in the top 11 and make the playoffs.

Deal?

The downside is the kicker who you want but have never seen practice might be worse.

 

[lazydave841]

The downside is the kicker who you want but have never seen practice might be worse.

It was released that our kickers finished camp at 85-84-83% (SS, Barker, Meyer). SS has done missed 4 attempts this year. Is it *really* a big deal to try one of the other guys? They would have to miss 3 in one game to be worse.

If we didn't have the % info from camp, what you wrote would make sense (because we would have no idea), but JF or somebody told us.