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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
Guest
And there were many of us who expected a different result each time Penn State stood and fought. Doesn't seem to be working out so great, but who knows.
Five Years & Our "Leadership".
- Thread starter moofafoo
- Start date
Easy now, a whole host of people are on this board in support of Jim Delany's Big Ten teams in bowl games. Nevermind him taking Joe's name off the trophy we just won.
Over the last 5 years:
When did ANYONE affiliated with PSU leadership EVER "stand and fight" (for anything other than their personal self-interests)
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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Fought for Penn State?
Seriously?
That's the best you got?
(Though, in fairness, I'm not sure if that opportunity was even available.......
1 - The factual aspects of the case were relatively cut-and-dry
2 - They couldn't compel the most impactful witnesses to testify (we'll never know what they "woulda'" if they "coulda'")
And
3 - When they tried to bring in contrary or mitigating of "exculpatory", take your pick, evidence - like the former AG/Governor basically saying MM was a Scoundrel - the Judge wouldn't allow it)
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Fought for Penn State?
Seriously?
That's the best you got?
(Though, in fairness, I'm not sure if that opportunity was even available.......
1 - The factual aspects of the case were relatively cut-and-dry
2 - They couldn't compel the most impactful witnesses to testify (we'll never know what they "woulda'" if they "coulda'")
And
3 - When they tried to bring in contrary or mitigating of "exculpatory", take your pick, evidence - like the former AG/Governor basically saying MM was a Scoundrel - the Judge wouldn't allow it)
Wise men pick their fights. PSU's leadership after the scandal broke hired the former director of the FBI
and his team to conduct an impartial investigation. The results of which were damning enough to
put them on the defensive and gave the NCAA the ammo to impose onerous sanctions that would
have crippled most football programs for many years. The leadership worked to get the sanctions
reduced or removed. Two excellent and dedicated coaches were hired and PSU won the Big Ten title
long before most thought they would be competitive. Though some fans of rival schools and an occasional writer may continue to make derogatory comments about PSU, for the most part its good
name has been restored. You and others of your ilk may want to fight over Paterno's statue, the name of
a trophy or the validity of the abuse victim's claims. But the leadership did as well as they could with a very bad situation. Rational Penn State fans should be thanking them.
Sweet Jesus, you are stupider than I thought.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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[QUOT
I obviously agree with OspreyLion on the point about picking one's battles.
I agree with you that his description seems a little (a lot) too rosey--there's a huge difference between our football team being competitive and Penn State's good name for the most part being restored (pretty sure Osprey gets that). And I'm not ready to say the leadership did as well as anyone could have. I know of no fair comparison. And I'm trying to reserve judgment. But their job was to steer through a storm and the ship survived, well most of it. The problem is what was cast overboard (other than the money). And whether that was necessary. Or more to the point, whether doing so was just.
But to the point of Penn State needing to to pick its fights, I don't think we'll ever get past this until we focus on the only fight that can be won (assuming it should be won), and that's the distinction between an error or getting duped, and a conspiracy to cover-up. It's unlikely history will contain a story that doesn't include someone at Penn State failing to do more with what they had. But hats off to Jim Clemente (and thank you to the Paterno family) for making clear how entire communities get duped by guys like Sandusky--and that was the tragic flaw of the Freeh Report. He did this stuff hiding in plain sight and nobody saw it, or believed it, or [FILL IN--who the heck knows]. I can live with that, but not Free's conspiracy theory and character assassination. Folks may have fumbled. Freeh assigned intent and motive.
Jerry Sandusky won't stop being toxic for Penn State anytime soon. The losses haven't stopped. Accepting that Penn State was screwed from the start, maybe there is some big win coming as the losses mount and it has everything with restoring Penn State's name. But, using the McQuery case as an easy example, as much as people may hate that Penn State lost the case and is on the hook for 12MM, Mike's life was ruined and that 12MM may have been a bargain. Why? Because the testimony coming from that losing battle supports the premise that we were duped. And it cuts against the suggestion that everyone knew from Mike that there was a rape and then covered it up. And if they didn't know then, then when did they?
It's all going to come down to credibility--the Board's, Louis Freeh's, Joe Paterno's, Dr. Spanier's, Mark Emmert's, Gov. Corbett's, Frank Fina's, etc., etc. For me, in the absence of a smoking gun that I have to assume doesn't exist or Louis Freeh would have turned it over, Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier and others earned the credibility to be believed when they said they didn't know, didn't cover it up, etc., and that they just didn't catch the bad guy they didn't see. Or to at least have their word balanced against the notes, emails, ins co settlements, etc. that can all be cobbled together to make a case against them--in hindsight.
Maybe the Board did as well as anyone could have. Who knows. But the ship is still floating.
He's not stupid. And you "and your ilk" are not irrational. Just have differing approaches to dealing with the volcano that erupted on the Old Main lawn.
I obviously agree with OspreyLion on the point about picking one's battles.
I agree with you that his description seems a little (a lot) too rosey--there's a huge difference between our football team being competitive and Penn State's good name for the most part being restored (pretty sure Osprey gets that). And I'm not ready to say the leadership did as well as anyone could have. I know of no fair comparison. And I'm trying to reserve judgment. But their job was to steer through a storm and the ship survived, well most of it. The problem is what was cast overboard (other than the money). And whether that was necessary. Or more to the point, whether doing so was just.
But to the point of Penn State needing to to pick its fights, I don't think we'll ever get past this until we focus on the only fight that can be won (assuming it should be won), and that's the distinction between an error or getting duped, and a conspiracy to cover-up. It's unlikely history will contain a story that doesn't include someone at Penn State failing to do more with what they had. But hats off to Jim Clemente (and thank you to the Paterno family) for making clear how entire communities get duped by guys like Sandusky--and that was the tragic flaw of the Freeh Report. He did this stuff hiding in plain sight and nobody saw it, or believed it, or [FILL IN--who the heck knows]. I can live with that, but not Free's conspiracy theory and character assassination. Folks may have fumbled. Freeh assigned intent and motive.
Jerry Sandusky won't stop being toxic for Penn State anytime soon. The losses haven't stopped. Accepting that Penn State was screwed from the start, maybe there is some big win coming as the losses mount and it has everything with restoring Penn State's name. But, using the McQuery case as an easy example, as much as people may hate that Penn State lost the case and is on the hook for 12MM, Mike's life was ruined and that 12MM may have been a bargain. Why? Because the testimony coming from that losing battle supports the premise that we were duped. And it cuts against the suggestion that everyone knew from Mike that there was a rape and then covered it up. And if they didn't know then, then when did they?
It's all going to come down to credibility--the Board's, Louis Freeh's, Joe Paterno's, Dr. Spanier's, Mark Emmert's, Gov. Corbett's, Frank Fina's, etc., etc. For me, in the absence of a smoking gun that I have to assume doesn't exist or Louis Freeh would have turned it over, Joe Paterno, Graham Spanier and others earned the credibility to be believed when they said they didn't know, didn't cover it up, etc., and that they just didn't catch the bad guy they didn't see. Or to at least have their word balanced against the notes, emails, ins co settlements, etc. that can all be cobbled together to make a case against them--in hindsight.
Maybe the Board did as well as anyone could have. Who knows. But the ship is still floating.
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I KNOW I could have; anyone of them could have, it would have been simple, but I/They would have sacrificed a lot and gone down with the ship. It would have taken some cajones.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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The substance of my reply is in my last post. But I'm sure by now you saw that I liked what you wrote. It was sincere.Fought for Penn State?
Seriously?
That's the best you got?
(Though, in fairness, I'm not sure if that opportunity was even available.......
1 - The factual aspects of the case were relatively cut-and-dry
2 - They couldn't compel the most impactful witnesses to testify (we'll never know what they "woulda'" if they "coulda'")
And
3 - When they tried to bring in contrary or mitigating of "exculpatory", take your pick, evidence - like the former AG/Governor basically saying MM was a Scoundrel - the Judge wouldn't allow it)
To point 1, you're right the facts were relatively cut and dry.
To 2 and 3,the rules of evidence and the Fifth Amendment are what they are. Of those who did testify, I think the most impactful witnesses re: Penn State were the first two guys Mike spoke to in his kitchen. That they didn't support Mike's story gave that testimony credibility.
Nobody believed Jerry was a monster. We believed it all the way up until we were surprised.
Criminal charges brought v. Penn State officials.
The Freeh report.
The NCAA's, B1G's response.
Cleary Review.
Mike's suit.
At every juncture, Penn State got smacked if it couldn't settle. The Jerry story is that toxic and was from the beginning. Before you go into the leaks, media lynching, etc. that made this so much worse, I agree with you.
If it is possible to be 110% wrong - - - you've done it
Now - Shut Up
As they say - "it was an A-B conversation, so C your way out...."
You are a disgusting piece of vermin - even as an anonymous, douchebag, message board poster, it makes my skin crawl to be this "close" to you
If it is possible to be 110% wrong - - - you've done it
Now - Shut Up
As they say - "it was an A-B conversation, so C your way out...."
You are a disgusting piece of vermin - even as an anonymous, douchebag, message board poster, it makes my skin crawl to be this "close" to you
I plan on voicing my opinions as long as those that run this board allow me to do so.
You have proven unable to conduct yourself in a civil manner and your childlike responses
to me and others reinforce my opinion that you and your ilk have treated the scandal in the same
way. Your constant wailing, whining and name calling reflects badly on you and the University.
I don't really care if you make a fool of yourself but I care deeply about PSU.
Allow me to now ask you a serious question
IN your opinion, will you cite what you believe are/where the positive, logical and rational decisions made by the BOT and PSU administration w/r/t toe Sandusky situation? I struggle to think of even one.
If you can't think of one, then we disagree on what constitutes a rational or logical decision. I am sure
decisions weren't made in a vacuum. Penn State surely had a cadre of lawyers advising them. Neither
you nor I know what went on behind the scenes but I am reasonably happy with the outcome. You obviously are not.
He's a Circle-Jerker........just one who is even more ignorant than the typical Circle-Jerker (if that is possible).
Thinks if the football team is winning games.....its perfectly A-OK for:
- The teat-sucking Trustees and Administration to continue to line their own pockets on the backs of the students
- The Powers-That-Be in Harrisburg (and elsewhere) to cover up their malfeasance behind the veil of "Penn State Football"
- The low-life scumbags like Raykovitz, Heim, Corman and crew to slither around in their swamp......protected by the lazy ignorance of the masses.
That's the kind of low-end, POS, bootlickers folks like Osprey are.
He "cares about PSU"? LOL
He doesn't even know what "PSU" is.
He thinks that "PSU" is c&cks&ckers like his heroes Barron, Lubert, Dambly, Erickson, Frazier, Peetz, Corman etc.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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I challenge anyone to find me one example in history where a company/school plead guilty on behalf of their indicted employees all based on the actions of a FORMER employee (who hadn't worked for the company/school for a decade) and a grand jury presentment. PSU literally lit themselves on fire after the GJP FOR NO GOOD REASON. Then hired freeh to blow their own brains out a few months later.
99.999% of all crisis management experts would tell you to take a neutral stance re: the charged employees (CSS) and wait for their cases to be adjudicated before taking ANY stance on them one way or the other. JS' crimes didn't need to be owned by PSU when the scandal broke in 11/11 but our BOT full of "esteemed" lawyers such as Frazier effectively crapped their pants based only on a one sided non factual prosecutorial document and never even speaking to Joe before uncerimoniously firing him via late night nationally televised press conference (effectively pleading guilty on his behalf). Hmm...that sounds odd doesn't it? Especially for a guy like frazier who took each Vioxx case (where people actually DIED) to trial.
So, either frazier and the rest of the lawyers on our BOT in 11/11 completely forgot all of their legal training and common sense when the GJP was "leaked" or there were some machinations going on behind the scenes by the BOT inner circle (see Surma) and OAG (Corbett). It's pretty clear for anyone with a brain what really happened.
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How close exactly does I-95 come to Osprey anyway? Because I'm pretty sure the I-95 song was written with you in mind. jdm, sadly the more you post here, the less respect I have for you and your strange opinions.
Can you name, in any other scandal that affected a major university or even a corporation, an instance where the Board effectively prevented the parties involved from making statements and decided instead to declare them guilty, and as a result make the organization they represent legally liable?
Can you name any organization that publicly invited any alleged victims to sue them, stating in effect that they had lots of money available to pay any claims? Didn't they in fact give a number that would give the attorneys a precise target to aim for in each case?
In any of the other college scandals, did the Board in any of them blame the entire community-- students, (most of the faculty), alumni, and townspeople, for creating a culture that allowed one criminal to act?
If either of you think that Freeh was hired as an impartial investigator, you're totally off the tracks. If you think that Freeh has an impeccable record in integrity and honesty, you're further from the tracks. Freeh has botched up every investigation he was hired to do, from FIFA, Flight 800, BP, Wynne, Olympic Park bombing.
Freeh is a hired gun who provides the results he is paid to find. If you believe the BOT hired Freeh for any reason than to cover their own asses for acting like chickens with their heads cut off and making seriously stupid decisions in the days following the GJP release, there's no hope for you. He was paid to produce a report justifying the firing of Paterno and Spanier. Period. He worked in cahoots with the Big Ten and NCAA and our BOT's own special committee. Nothing independent or impartial there. Don't you get it?
Can you name, in any other scandal that affected a major university or even a corporation, an instance where the Board effectively prevented the parties involved from making statements and decided instead to declare them guilty, and as a result make the organization they represent legally liable?
Can you name any organization that publicly invited any alleged victims to sue them, stating in effect that they had lots of money available to pay any claims? Didn't they in fact give a number that would give the attorneys a precise target to aim for in each case?
In any of the other college scandals, did the Board in any of them blame the entire community-- students, (most of the faculty), alumni, and townspeople, for creating a culture that allowed one criminal to act?
If either of you think that Freeh was hired as an impartial investigator, you're totally off the tracks. If you think that Freeh has an impeccable record in integrity and honesty, you're further from the tracks. Freeh has botched up every investigation he was hired to do, from FIFA, Flight 800, BP, Wynne, Olympic Park bombing.
Freeh is a hired gun who provides the results he is paid to find. If you believe the BOT hired Freeh for any reason than to cover their own asses for acting like chickens with their heads cut off and making seriously stupid decisions in the days following the GJP release, there's no hope for you. He was paid to produce a report justifying the firing of Paterno and Spanier. Period. He worked in cahoots with the Big Ten and NCAA and our BOT's own special committee. Nothing independent or impartial there. Don't you get it?
So in your opinion, Freeh was hired by PSU to tarnish it's reputation. You are certainly entitled to it.
But I feel those with a modicum of common sense find your premise laughable. And Osprey is on the west
coast of Florida.
Thanks for another childish profanity laden rant that only reinforces my opinion of you.
I'm surprised you didn't call me a poopy pants.
PSU tarnished their own reputation due to their idiotic reaction to a non factual GJP on 11/11. Before JS even had his trial PSU was owning his crimes, pleading guilty on behalf of CSS and threw Joe to the wolves via press conference (read the articles by crisis management expert Stephen Fink - who is a PSU alum and offered his service for FREE which he never even got a response to, go figure). They hired freeh to cover their asses and get everyone to "move on". I guess their plan worked on you. For the rest of us it did not and also hardened our resolve.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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I guess I must be.
I don't think he was impartial. I agree he found what he was looking for. If you're right in the end that this was all a character assassination orchestrated by the Board and the State against its flagship university and it's most prominent non-Board leadership, then I'll eat all my words. And that'll really suck. But this is one heck of a conspiracy theory. I'll keep reading and hope to God you're wrong.
I'll check notifications for more responses but there's little sense in continuing this in the short-term. Enjoy the Rose Bowl.
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And THIS is why the "inert-ness" of the A9 has been such a tragedy
We all know (except for the terminally ignorant, stupid, and conflicted) that the Legislature and the Politicos are hopelessly corrupt.......
And when the only representative (elected) members of the PSU Administration or Governance Board - the A9 - are essentially mute.........
And, on the rare occasions when they actually say ANYTHING of substance - 95% of the time it is related to "football"
It most certainly is not a surprise that "football" is used to obfuscate everything else.....hell, what the Scoundrels started, we have reinforced.
Yes, there is a small minority who care about the broader, more impactful, more righteous issues at PSU beyond "football".......but only a relatively small number.
The Luberts, the Barrons, the Fraziers........to not realize that they were cackling away in glee as the A9 focused on "football"? That would be incredibly naïve.
And when the depths of the abyss were finally breached by the unanimous support of Ira Lubert.....IRA LUBERT!!!!.....34-0 - - - - all so as to further the "football" agenda?
Good Grief!
As evil, self-serving, and morally vacuous as that group of Scoundrels is......they are not stupid.(Not overly bright, either. But not flat-out stupid)
Not to get into a whole "BOT" thing here:
When one looks at the inane, oblivious, drivel spewed by the anonymous coward OspreyLion.......
In most regards, it is not far off from - hell, truth be told, it is largely congruent with - the track record of the actions (and, mostly, inactions) of the A9
We all know (except for the terminally ignorant, stupid, and conflicted) that the Legislature and the Politicos are hopelessly corrupt.......
And when the only representative (elected) members of the PSU Administration or Governance Board - the A9 - are essentially mute.........
And, on the rare occasions when they actually say ANYTHING of substance - 95% of the time it is related to "football"
It most certainly is not a surprise that "football" is used to obfuscate everything else.....hell, what the Scoundrels started, we have reinforced.
Yes, there is a small minority who care about the broader, more impactful, more righteous issues at PSU beyond "football".......but only a relatively small number.
The Luberts, the Barrons, the Fraziers........to not realize that they were cackling away in glee as the A9 focused on "football"? That would be incredibly naïve.
And when the depths of the abyss were finally breached by the unanimous support of Ira Lubert.....IRA LUBERT!!!!.....34-0 - - - - all so as to further the "football" agenda?
Good Grief!
As evil, self-serving, and morally vacuous as that group of Scoundrels is......they are not stupid.(Not overly bright, either. But not flat-out stupid)
Not to get into a whole "BOT" thing here:
When one looks at the inane, oblivious, drivel spewed by the anonymous coward OspreyLion.......
In most regards, it is not far off from - hell, truth be told, it is largely congruent with - the track record of the actions (and, mostly, inactions) of the A9
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- Was it correct to fire Paterno? Why/Why not?
- Was it correct to remove the statue of Paterno? Why/Why not?
- Was it correct to pay victims who came forward stating they were abused without examining the cases and vetting the honesty, integrity and truthfulness of them? Why/Why Not?
- Was it right to pay the 1976 victim whose story didn't even check out?
- Was it correct for Ken Frazier to use a racial slur directed at a alumnus at a board meeting? Why/Why Not?
Even you can't be that stupid, to believe the afterbirth you spew
Holy Mary Mother of God did you just actually type that ?!?!?!
I asked "why/why Not". Please explain your rationale.
#4. Certainly NOT TRUE. There are no communal showers used for Sports camp attendees.
He knows all that - he just can't help but to be a complete Circle-Jerker douchebag
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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It's not that it's the consensus- it's what actually happened
They took an awful situation and made it worse-----ON PURPOSE
That is what is really sad to me and a sign of true evil (beyond JS of course)
Ass-spray needs to go.
I assume you recently got banned for being such a childish jerk because of your low
number of posts. Who were you before you changed your name?
