Foley's Friday Mailbag for 2/24/17

[Tom McAndrew]

a question and answer on the Gulbion - Heil match (Foley thinks Heil was pinned), question about how many subscribers on Flo for the PSU - Ok. St. dual, question and answer on DT, question and answer about PA wrestlers on Iowa's roster, and question and answer on which weight should go last for the finals at NCAAs.

For those keeping track, this is week 21, and despite promises he tweeted, no response to Flo's article about Olympic reffing corruption from Foley.

You can access the Mailbag at THIS LINK.

 

[a_mshaffer]

a question and answer on the Gulbion - Heil match (Foley thinks Heil was pinned), question about how many subscribers on Flo for the PSU - Ok. St. dual, question and answer on DT, question and answer about PA wrestlers on Iowa's roster, and question and answer on which weight should go last for the finals at NCAAs.

For those keeping track, this is week 21, and despite promises he tweeted, no response to Flo's article about Olympic reffing corruption from Foley.

You can access the Mailbag at THIS LINK.

It is sad. He is acting like all the other officials - leave it alone and it will go away. So we can just not worry about it until the next world championships or Olympics where we see it happen all over again. Wonder if the wrestling and ice-skating officials could switch places? If so - would anyone notice a difference?

 

[dunkej01]

I like the part where he acknowledges he will get hammered for being a socialist.....If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

a question and answer on the Gulbion - Heil match (Foley thinks Heil was pinned), question about how many subscribers on Flo for the PSU - Ok. St. dual, question and answer on DT, question and answer about PA wrestlers on Iowa's roster, and question and answer on which weight should go last for the finals at NCAAs.

For those keeping track, this is week 21, and despite promises he tweeted, no response to Flo's article about Olympic reffing corruption from Foley.

You can access the Mailbag at THIS LINK.

Foley is spot on in his answer in regards to the Gulibon v Heil match question you reference in your 1st paragraph. Not only was Heil pinned, but:

• He was also taken down prior to the pin as JG met all criteria listed for exhibiting "control" in this specific circumstance (i.e., opponent engages a defensive crotch-lock from a seated position attempting to prevent the shooting wrestler from gaining control) as evidenced by the fact that JG held Heil in the clear "pinning combination" for a constant period that exceeded 20 seconds and was only stopped by the horn ending the period!
• Folk has a "Flash TD" rule where points can be awarded as soon as control gained - contrast this with JG establishing clear "control" under the rules for the given situation for greater than 20 seconsds (and only ended by the period buzzer), but no points were awarded, huh????
• It is an embarrassment to Folkstyle wrestling that Heil's hand was raised in this match despite being clearly TD and clearly under control of the offensive wrestler via the criteria listed in the actual rules, no NF count was initiated and no Fall called - just a complete embarrassment to Folk wrestling and why many say it is not true wrestling in reality as Folk officials routinely make a mockery of "sacred" precepts of wrestling in making calls that produce outcomes they desire. Here is how Foley put it:

In wrestling, you are meant to stay OFF your back. This is universal and has a history that extends back more than 5,000 years. It's the heritage that binds our sport! That our wrestlers are putting themselves on their back for 20 seconds and not being called for a pin, but also WINNING the matches is simply embarrassing. I don't have a preference between the teams and think the world of both coaches, but it's an embarrassment to our sport that this match didn't end with an obvious fall call.

My hope is that the rules committee dives into this issue and ensures that the sport returns to a more logical rule set.

Have to agree with Foley, the NCAA Rules Committee needs to come out and say that the Official was WRONG here in how he interpretted the rules regardless of how well "credentialed" he is (or liked). They need to make a statement in regards to this high-profile match for the GOOD OF THE SPORT as the way that match was called is a complete embarrassment to Folkstyle Wrestling (and NCAA Wrestling is the premier "Folkstyle" venue) and needs to be addressed especially to avoid any confusion among wrestlers, coaches and officials as to whether that situation was called correctly under prevailing Folk rules for that situation WHICH IT ABSOLUTELY WAS NOT!!!

 

[jammenz]

If Heil was pinned shouldn't Foley have posted a pic that showed that? In the pic he posted Heil's shoulder is clearly off the mat.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

If Heil was pinned shouldn't Foley have posted a pic that showed that? In the pic he posted Heil's shoulder is clearly off the mat.

You've got it backwards as usual dumb@ss. The rulebook doesn't say 100% of the "Pinning Area" must be flat, it says it is a pin if any of the pinning area on both sides is in contact with the mat. The picture Foley posted very clearly shows the inside portion of Heil's right-side "pinning area" is in contact with the mat contrary to your typically absurd notions.....

 

[El-Jefe]

If Heil was pinned shouldn't Foley have posted a pic that showed that? In the pic he posted Heil's shoulder is clearly off the mat.

Foley actually lifted a finger. And it wasn't the middle finger. I know, the bar is low enough for worms to jump over ...

 

[El-Jefe]

I like the part where he acknowledges he will get hammered for being a socialist.....If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.....

That was good for a laugh.

Better insight: juxtapose his Gulibon-Heil comments with his ongoing silence about the Rio refs. When something bad happens in the US, even just a mistake: outrage and accountability. When something bad happens abroad, especially when it involves corruption: crickets.

I believe it was former UN Ambassador Jeane Kirkpatrick who called people like Foley the "Blame America First crowd."

 

[Lyco1990]

Foley actually lifted a finger. And it wasn't the middle finger. I know, the bar is low enough for worms to jump over ...

That an eastern european or a typical north american earth worm?

 

[katsujinken]

That an eastern european or a typical north american earth worm?

You're bangin 2 coconuts together...

Or is that jammies head making the hollow sound?

 

[21Guns]

While it was proper of Foley for his stance on the Heil pin, at the same time, where the hell is his article on international officiating corruption?

 

[El-Jefe]

That an eastern european or a typical north american earth worm?

Flatworm.

 

[21Guns]

The issue needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW, BEFORE Nationals, because you can bet your ass that Heil will try the same tactic at Nationals.

 

[Azchief32]

I replied to his "I'd feel safer in Iran than I would in Iowa." Told him he go backpacking and stay for a few years...guess he didn't get the reference. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/animal-freed-u-s-hiker-recalls-410-days-iran-prison-n55041

 

[21Guns]

I replied to his "I'd feel safer in Iran than I would in Iowa." Told him he go backpacking and stay for a few years...guess he didn't get the reference. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/animal-freed-u-s-hiker-recalls-410-days-iran-prison-n55041

View embedded media

EXCELLENT AVATAR CHIEF

Alright Alright Alright

 

[Ja1339]

I replied to his "I'd feel safer in Iran than I would in Iowa." Told him he go backpacking and stay for a few years...guess he didn't get the reference. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/animal-freed-u-s-hiker-recalls-410-days-iran-prison-n55041

View embedded media

Guys, apologize for the stupid question, but what country is Foley from?

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

The issue needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW, BEFORE Nationals, because you can bet your ass that Heil will try the same tactic at Nationals.

What about all the other competitors, coaches and officials who have seen how this was called??? So as a competitor, should I feel confident that I will be rewarded for maintaining a defensive crotch-lock (or waist-lock) with no points called even to the point of being completely controlled under the "control" rules interpretations and pinning myself via refusal to let go, because the Official has encouraged it by not calling the TD or initiating the NF count???

Your point about Heil is a good one - so if he does this exact same thing at NCAAs to thwart a shooting wrestler, should he be rewarded again for this technique? And should he be the only wrestler on the face of the planet who has their match called this way after their opponent has clearly established control criteria needed when opponent has engaged a crotch-lock or waist-lock (which JG clearly had)??? Cael has to be asking for a rules clarification in regards to both this match and the stalling calls on Zain heading into B1Gs and NCAAs -- these are fairly common positions and calls that officials are faced with and the way the positions were called is beyond baffling and perplexing if your a coach ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE IS A HIGH DEGREE OF LIKELIHOOD THAT HAGERTY COULD BE AN OFFICIAL AT NCAAs!!!

 

[dunkej01]

Guys, apologize for the stupid question, but what country is Foley from?

Best question of the month.

 

[El-Jefe]

Guys, apologize for the stupid question, but what country is Foley from?

Manhattanstan.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

The issue needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW, BEFORE Nationals, because you can bet your ass that Heil will try the same tactic at Nationals.

that's just silly.

What about all the other competitors, coaches and officials who have seen how this was called??? So as a competitor, should I feel confident that I will be rewarded for maintaining a defensive crotch-lock (or waist-lock) with no points called even to the point of being completely controlled under the "control" rules interpretations and pinning myself via refusal to let go, because the Official has encouraged it by not calling the TD or initiating the NF count???

The two of you are going overboard on this. The question of whether or not it is a TD is a tricky one. There is disagreement in the ref community on whether or not a TD should have been called. It's a really, really close call, and you can make a strong case for either side. Not every situation is black and white.

The top college refs have all seen the video of the match, analyzed it.

 

[El-Jefe]

The issue needs to be addressed RIGHT NOW, BEFORE Nationals, because you can bet your ass that Heil will try the same tactic at Nationals.

I don't recall the issue of Tony Nelson's stall ride of doom being addressed before nationals.

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

that's just silly.



The two of you are going overboard on this. The question of whether or not it is a TD is a tricky one. There is disagreement in the ref community on whether or not a TD should have been called. It's a really, really close call, and you can make a strong case for either side. Not every situation is black and white.

The top college refs have all seen the video of the match, analyzed it.

Have to agree with Foley then - if there are Folk Officials who believe that crap should be rewarded (and JG should be blatantly ripped off), they simply have no clue when it comes to what the most fundamental and sacred rules of wrestling are all about and it is a true "embarrassment" to Folk wrestling. All of the criteria listed in the rulebook for "control" in that situation (i.e., defeating a defensive crotch-lock or waist-lock) are clearly met by Jimmy and the rulebook interpretations specifically state that a crotch-lock (or waist-lock) does not prevent control or a TD when the other criteria are met.

If the NCAA Rules Committee really believes that was not a TD and a NF Count should not have been initiated, then they should issue a statement as to why they feel this way, because it is an absurd rendering of wrestlings basic rules to claim that $hit was "good wrestling" in any way, shape or form OR in any way should have been rewarded - least of all by a means to win a match (conversely, it is absurd to say Jimmy's wrestling should have gone un-rewarded). Again, if the NCAA Rules Committee believes that match was called by "the book", they should come out and say so and why they believe that, because the actual "good wrestling" was unrewarded and complete bull$hit which was diametrically contrary to sacred, age-old principles of wrestling was rewarded.

 

[diggerpup]

AZ Hawk

You might be an Iowa fan but you're definitely one of the coolest dudes** on the entire Interwebs.

My first drink during this Friday Happy Hour, I'm toasting to you.

(** = Almost as cool as cool El-Jefe)

 

[21Guns]

I don't recall the issue of Tony Nelson's stall ride of doom being addressed before nationals.

Gwiz pulled it off against all odds.

 

[jammenz]

You've got it backwards as usual dumb@ss. The rulebook doesn't say 100% of the "Pinning Area" must be flat, it says it is a pin if any of the pinning area on both sides is in contact with the mat. The picture Foley posted very clearly shows the inside portion of Heil's right-side "pinning area" is in contact with the mat contrary to your typically absurd notions.....

I only see one scapula touching the mat. I notice that you omitted this part of the definition of a pin "The one-second count (one-thousand-one) shall be a silent count by the referee and shall start only after the referee is in position to observe that a fall is imminent, after which the shoulders or scapulae area must be held in continuous contact with the mat for one second before a fall is awarded". Hagerty is one of the best. If he didn't call the pin then there wasn't one.

 

[dunkej01]

I only see one scapula touching the mat. I notice that you omitted this part of the definition of a pin "The one-second count (one-thousand-one) shall be a silent count by the referee and shall start only after the referee is in position to observe that a fall is imminent, after which the shoulders or scapulae area must be held in continuous contact with the mat for one second before a fall is awarded". Hagerty is one of the best. If he didn't call the pin then there wasn't one.

Welcome to the wrestlebacks (my new favorite saying)

 

[Franklin_Restores_TheTradition]

that's just silly.



The two of you are going overboard on this. The question of whether or not it is a TD is a tricky one. There is disagreement in the ref community on whether or not a TD should have been called. It's a really, really close call, and you can make a strong case for either side. Not every situation is black and white.

The top college refs have all seen the video of the match, analyzed it.

Seriously though Tom, here is a picture of the situation again:

Jimmy meets all the criteria for a TD in this situation and the rulebook states that the crotch-lock must offer the wrestler engaging it a means to improve his position for the TD not to be called. How can Heil's crotch-lock offer any hope of improving his position in this situation given how his leg is hooked? It is physically impossible for it to help and it is utterly unbelievable that any Official could believe that Heil's crotch-lock offers him a means to improve his position here or that JG is not in full control of this Scissors-Split Stack (and could control it for as long as he wanted as he demonstrated in holding it for the remainder of the period TWICE after engaging it - more than a 20 second count on both occassions.).

 

[HOCKEYGOD11]

Meet em again in the finals at nationals.. put him in the same position and it will be a fall.. That is the one that really matters.. JG being confident he CAN beat the best, even if the ref failed to award him that win, is the most important thing to come out of that match IMO..