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Foley's Friday Mailbag for 9/30/16

Tom McAndrew

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2001
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Zain gets a mention in an answer.

Foley babbles about no longer being certain that dual meets are the way to go in college wrestling.

CLICK HERE to read this week's Mailbag.
 
What, nothing in the mailbag about Flo's UWW story?

I'll also take issue with this presumption: "While the NWCA All-Star Classic is on solid footing..." Looking at past years I think there's a waning willingness of the top guys to wrestle in this event. This year especially it seems like they're having a tough time filling out the card, names are trickling in pretty slowly.
 
What, nothing in the mailbag about Flo's UWW story?

Agree, nothing by Foley on twitter or in his mailbag on a huge story in wrestling.

Transparency is such an issue here. Most organizations have to face the press on something like this and at least issue a statement. Completely expected given the way UWW has operated that they are tight lipped on this, but we have two prominent Americans employed by the UWW in Foley and Stan Dziedzic and you would think we could get some kind of commentary on this from them.
 
After reading the article I have to admit I am continously losing respect and appreciation for the intelligence of the self-appointed smartest guy in wrestling.

Replacing duals with mini-tournaments so the athletes can get more matches in a shorter time frame. Athletes' health be damned I suppose.
 
After reading the article I have to admit I am continously losing respect and appreciation for the intelligence of the self-appointed smartest guy in wrestling.

Replacing duals with mini-tournaments so the athletes can get more matches in a shorter time frame. Athletes' health be damned I suppose.

if his articles bother you, dont check out his twitter. hes a SJW for all causes big and small. long on arguments and short on results.
 
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if his articles bother you, dont check out his twitter. hes a SJW for all causes big and small. long on arguments and short on results.

I had never checked out his Twitter in depth...followed it a bit during JayBo's light trolling during the Olympics. Had no doubt though, that he is a SJW in good stead.
 
Also, I googled "SJW," (you kids and your fancy interweb acronyms!) and I'd think we should all strive to be social justice warriors. Why wouldn't we want to be a voice for those that aren't heard? You kids would probably root for Darth Vader, too. (He was a villain in the *original* Star Wars trilogy, LOL)
 
It would be absolutely hilarious if someone (especially someone in the industry) trolled Foley on Twitter -- while speaking exclusively in Trumpisms. Foley's head might explode, and everyone else would wet their pants laughing.

There has to be some online Trump quote generator to assist, right?

I nominate Willie.
 
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Also, I googled "SJW," (you kids and your fancy interweb acronyms!) and I'd think we should all strive to be social justice warriors. Why wouldn't we want to be a voice for those that aren't heard? You kids would probably root for Darth Vader, too. (He was a villain in the *original* Star Wars trilogy, LOL)

No lie I cant wait for Vader to show up this christmas and kick rebel @ss. I have been waiting my entire life for this moment.

As for foley, yes he has a voice, but what has he actually accomplished with that voice? Vais scooped him and the UWW with his coverage. A face mush gets multiple columns and multiple false outrages in my opinion. A russian shoves a ref and the only sound is crickets.

I would love for someone to trigger foley on twitter. If its smalls I will buy him a beverage of his choice.
 
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It would be absolutely hilarious if someone (especially someone in the industry) trolled Foley on Twitter -- while speaking exclusively in Trumpisms. Foley's head might explode, and everyone else would wet their pants laughing.

There has to be some online Trump quote generator to assist, right?

I nominate Willie.

I made a little grab-bag of Trumpisms for Willie:

"Putin is my kinda guy!"

"I don't like immigrants unless I personally import them to be my wife."

"I have no respect for unattractive women."

"I don't pay my contractors because they fold from expenses incurred before they can win a judgement."

Feel free to join in, fellas! This is fun!

: )
 
I've never been one to Foley bash even though I certainly find myself at odds with his opinions at times. I'm a big fan of opinions, whether they are horsebleep or valid - discourse is good, and he certainly gets people talking.

I know some feel he pushes an agenda, but I think he genuinely feels the way he does about international wrestling or at least it comes across that way in his writing. So I give him a pass on his views of the sport. I realize his employ with UWW may cause some to view this with a fair share of skepticism, but it's also quite possible that he is employed by UWW as PR precisely because of his views - not the other way around. I'd think it more likely than possible.

I saw this this morning and then tweeted my concern about nothing mentioned in his mailbag this morning to both Pyles and Foley. Foley and Dziedzic are the guys I tweeted should be responding publicly to this. A bunch of tweets followed (one exchange highlighted by El Jefe above), but at the end of the day, he did express publicly that he was angered, disappointed and frustrated by what was going on there - significantly so in the last six weeks. When pressed by another poster, he stated that he would be addressing the issue this coming week.

I think that's pretty fair, especially considering his position. I'm willing to wait to hear what he has to say about this publicly in the coming days. I'd like to see the same from Dziedzic but I guess we will see what happens.

Somebody digs up dirt (Pyles), officials publicly respond, people question the response and follow up, more internal pressure and response, and so on and so on. That's the way this media thing should work IMO.
 
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if his articles bother you, dont check out his twitter. hes a SJW for all causes big and small. long on arguments and short on results.
His articles whether I have agreed with the point or not, historically, haven't bothered me. Just opinion differences mostly.

The folkstyle issue bugs the snot out of me because of it's utter silliness. The two Olympic freestyle medal winners currently compete mostly in folkstyle events versus the 4 non medal winners who have been concentrating on freestyle training/events and we need to dump folkstyle because it does not prepare our wrestling athletes properly.

Whether the point has any validity, the post Olympic snap shot was probably about as dumb assed a time frame to try and make that point.

Then to argue we should opt out of folkstyle for a greco/freestyle derivitive - at least pick one.

Today to offer up some "dump the dual for multiple mini tournaments" idea without even considering the impact of what he is suggesting - as a wrestling journalist he has a responsibility to write thoughtfully. Lately, to me, his efforts have been intellectually lazy which means he is not meeting his journalist responsibility and it just pisses me off.
 
His articles whether I have agreed with the point or not, historically, haven't bothered me. Just opinion differences mostly.

The folkstyle issue bugs the snot out of me because of it's utter silliness. The two Olympic freestyle medal winners currently compete mostly in folkstyle events versus the 4 non medal winners who have been concentrating on freestyle training/events and we need to dump folkstyle because it does not prepare our wrestling athletes properly.

Whether the point has any validity, the post Olympic snap shot was probably about as dumb assed a time frame to try and make that point.

Then to argue we should opt out of folkstyle for a greco/freestyle derivitive - at least pick one.

Today to offer up some "dump the dual for multiple mini tournaments" idea without even considering the impact of what he is suggesting - as a wrestling journalist he has a responsibility to write thoughtfully. Lately, to me, his efforts have been intellectually lazy which means he is not meeting his journalist responsibility and it just pisses me off.


You raise a good point about both our medal-winners wrestling mostly folkstyle. I think folkstyle is way more fun to watch, anyway.
 
The folkstyle issue bugs the snot out of me because of it's utter silliness. The two Olympic freestyle medal winners currently compete mostly in folkstyle events versus the 4 non medal winners who have been concentrating on freestyle training/events and we need to dump folkstyle because it does not prepare our wrestling athletes properly.
Foley and the freestyle evangelists have you there. When the US doesn't have success internationally it's because we don't wrestle freestyle exclusively. But if, like this year, our folkstyle guys have int'l success, they say "But just think how much better they'd be if they wrestled freestyle exclusively." It's an impenetrable, circular argument.
 
I made a little grab-bag of Trumpisms for Willie:

"Putin is my kinda guy!"

"I don't like immigrants unless I personally import them to be my wife."

"I have no respect for unattractive women."

"I don't pay my contractors because they fold from expenses incurred before they can win a judgement."

Feel free to join in, fellas! This is fun!

: )

ev-flores0331- infantry, next
 
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I've never been one to Foley bash ...
I usually like people to share opinions, but after Foley was fast and loose with speculating about Strittmatter's influencing Lee and Teasdale to go to Iowa, and after Foley was fast and loose with talking about Marsteller's character, and after other similar shooting from the hip by Foley, I decided I had enough. This silence on the UWW is just the latest reason for disappointment.
 
Tighter shot from Cutch's Instagram feed, but link won't embed.

14499122_1132817910134510_7124441267559202816_n.jpg
 
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Tikk, what does it say, if anything, on the east
Can't quite make out the one side visible on Bo's ring. Definitely the wrestler's name, and at bottom I think "WRESTLING." In between there's a ribbon? that I'm guessing could contain the year, or perhaps the wrestler's weight class? Dunno.
 
Can't quite make out the one side visible on Bo's ring. Definitely the wrestler's name, and at bottom I think "WRESTLING." In between there's a ribbon? that I'm guessing could contain the year, or perhaps the wrestler's weight class? Dunno.
Cool, I didn't realize each member got one. thks
 
I've never been one to Foley bash even though I certainly find myself at odds with his opinions at times. I'm a big fan of opinions, whether they are horsebleep or valid - discourse is good, and he certainly gets people talking.

I know some feel he pushes an agenda, but I think he genuinely feels the way he does about international wrestling or at least it comes across that way in his writing. So I give him a pass on his views of the sport. I realize his employ with UWW may cause some to view this with a fair share of skepticism, but it's also quite possible that he is employed by UWW as PR precisely because of his views - not the other way around. I'd think it more likely than possible.

I saw this this morning and then tweeted my concern about nothing mentioned in his mailbag this morning to both Pyles and Foley. Foley and Dziedzic are the guys I tweeted should be responding publicly to this. A bunch of tweets followed (one exchange highlighted by El Jefe above), but at the end of the day, he did express publicly that he was angered, disappointed and frustrated by what was going on there - significantly so in the last six weeks. When pressed by another poster, he stated that he would be addressing the issue this coming week.

I think that's pretty fair, especially considering his position. I'm willing to wait to hear what he has to say about this publicly in the coming days. I'd like to see the same from Dziedzic but I guess we will see what happens.

Somebody digs up dirt (Pyles), officials publicly respond, people question the response and follow up, more internal pressure and response, and so on and so on. That's the way this media thing should work IMO.
Foley should have put that sentiment into his mailbag today, along with the statement that he would discuss at more length next week (possibly after digging into it more, formulating his thoughts, etc.).

That would've (1) shown he was aware of the bombshell that was CP's report; (2) shown he cares about the sport's biggest problem (as opposed to its absurdities like singlets and face-smushing and Flo's bro culture); (3) shown that he would be thoughtful instead of reactionary; (4) set up some anticipation.

That he didn't do so might have been an oversight. But it opens him up to less generous criticism: perhaps he never intended to respond to the issue until prompted on twitter, and perhaps that's because he has an ethical conflict due to his position with UWW. Fair or unfair, he set himself up for that.
 
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Today to offer up some "dump the dual for multiple mini tournaments" idea without even considering the impact of what he is suggesting - as a wrestling journalist he has a responsibility to write thoughtfully. Lately, to me, his efforts have been intellectually lazy which means he is not meeting his journalist responsibility and it just pisses me off.
I usually like people to share opinions, but after Foley was fast and loose with speculating about Strittmatter's influencing Lee and Teasdale to go to Iowa, and after Foley was fast and loose with talking about Marsteller's character, and after other similar shooting from the hip by Foley, I decided I had enough. This silence on the UWW is just the latest reason for disappointment.
These are my problems with Foley in a nutshell. I don't mind other opinions -- the sport needs to constantly re-evaluate itself to ensure its survival and ultimately growth. With his background of having researched (and attempted) various styles around the world, he's in a unique position to drive these discussions.

But he seems make up facts out of thin air, or misremembering facts (especially ones the fans know immediately), or not Google, or breezily saye the first thing that comes to mind without bothering to think about it. Or say one thing last week and the opposite this week, without any real basis for either.

TL;DR version: he could be a real influencer with the public but regularly squanders that opportunity.
 
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Foley should have put that sentiment into his mailbag today, along with the statement that he would discuss at more length next week (possibly after digging into it more, formulating his thoughts, etc.).

That would've (1) shown he was aware of the bombshell that was CP's report; (2) shown he cares about the sport's biggest problem (as opposed to its absurdities like singlets and face-smushing and Flo's bro culture); (3) shown that he would be thoughtful instead of reactionary; (4) set up some anticipation.

That he didn't do so might have been an oversight. But it opens him up to less generous criticism: perhaps he never intended to respond to the issue until prompted on twitter, and perhaps that's because he has an ethical conflict due to his position with UWW. Fair or unfair, he set himself up for that.

Agree on your points. That's why I sent the tweet in the first place.

But he has responded now, and publicly in a way that is antagonistic to his position in the UWW. And has publicly stated that more is on the way in the coming way. I'll give him credit for that and wait to see what comes.
 
With his background of having researched (and attempted) various styles around the world, he's in a unique position to drive these discussions.
But he seems make up facts out of thin air, or misremembering facts (especially ones the fans know immediately), or not Google, or breezily saye the first thing that comes to mind without bothering to think about it. Or say one thing last week and the opposite this week, without any real basis for either.
TL;DR version: he could be a real influencer with the public but regularly squanders that opportunity.

I think this is a very fair criticism and warranted. But I also enjoy the perspective he brings from time to time in his column. It's certainly a voice that stands out as a unique one whether, again, it spews some horsebleep or pearls of wisdom.

When it comes to media coverage of wrestling, veteran "voices" are few and far between. Just has not been all that much coverage until recently. With the explosion of internet coverage and social media, it's put a number of relatively "new" faces in the spotlight. I would expect that the media coverage will experience some growing pains for a while.
 
I think this is a very fair criticism and warranted. But I also enjoy the perspective he brings from time to time in his column. It's certainly a voice that stands out as a unique one whether, again, it spews some horsebleep or pearls of wisdom.

When it comes to media coverage of wrestling, veteran "voices" are few and far between. Just has not been all that much coverage until recently. With the explosion of internet coverage and social media, it's put a number of relatively "new" faces in the spotlight. I would expect that the media coverage will experience some growing pains for a while.
Agreed on most of this. Though I must admit less tolerance for Foley's horsecrap than others' ... he posits himself as an intellectual, and so I expect it from him.

I expect Flo to act like a start-up: hustling to be first, looking for angles others don't, rougher around the edges, more entertaining, perhaps more tactical than strategic. (Maybe more Better Call Saul than the Supreme Court.) So I can tolerate more BS from them because I don't expect them to be as refined, and because they're more entertaining.

This is also why I loathed his feud with Flo over their bro culture: the sport needs both styles, and Flo's roughest edges will smooth out over time.
 
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Today to offer up some "dump the dual for multiple mini tournaments" idea without even considering the impact of what he is suggesting - as a wrestling journalist he has a responsibility to write thoughtfully. Lately, to me, his efforts have been intellectually lazy which means he is not meeting his journalist responsibility and it just pisses me off.
He mentioned in a subsequent tweet (in response to something I said) that he was more throwing that out there for feedback than actually suggesting it. I'd be almost the only person in America who would benefit from such an idea, and as such, I'm opposed. I'd like to think I'm not the self-centered jerk some make me out to be.
 
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