Glad reality entertains you.
It amazes me that so many people in our fan base don't realize how insane it was to expect anyone else to defend us when our own leaders refused to do so
Forbes: Urban Meyer’s fate rests with Law Firm’s findings (link)
- Thread starter Cosmos
- Start date
Glad reality entertains you.
It amazes me that so many people in our fan base don't realize how insane it was to expect anyone else to defend us when our own leaders refused to do so
Yeah, fans of other programs didn’t defend us because of our leaders. Come on, that’s ridiculous....most of them don’t even know what our leaders did or didn’t do. They didn’t defend us because they took great joy in watching the program get taken down. So I’m going to enjoy it when it happens to those same people. Karma is fun.
They didn't defend us because
1. Our leaders didn't
2. Public outcry was against us
When you do preach success with honor and something like that happens of course their will be some that enjoy watching you sink but had we defended ourselves at all the narrative would have been different. Ask Syracuse, MSU, Ohio State, etc.
You're right--everyone else is to blame...no one at Penn State hold any responsibility. I'll triple down on it because it's accurate.
I like Urban. Perfectly happy to wait and see the results of the investigation.
I need a Ouija board to figure you out. Sometimes I wish you came with subtitles but that is part of your charm. No idea where this came from.
That PSU's leadership didn't defend the school and public outcry is not sufficient reason to pile on. If one can't discern right from wrong, if one can't defend right, then do nothing.
Nothing to figure out. This jackass thinks he's the moral compass of the board. Problem is that is needle has been dysfunctional forever.
Had we defended ourselves, it wouldn’t have mattered. MSU is different because there isn’t a big name involved. Ohio State is different because the media isn’t piling on and because everyone knows Ohio State is shady. The narrative was set regardless of what our BOT did. I wish they would have defended us, but it wouldn’t have changed people’s minds. The mob would have still been out to get us and because of that the NCAA still would have hammered us.
I think he just likes to argue. Take the opposite stance and I bet he'd argue you're wrong with that as well.
Not so. If our BOT had a backbone they would have threatened the NCAA with a lawsuit behind closed doors, and the NCAA would have rightfully backed off because it was a matter of which they had no jurisdiction. If the NCAA and by extension the Big Ten don't throw draconian penalties our way, gasoline isn't thrown onto the fire.
I couldn't agree less. The narrative was set as soon as the BOT panicked and fired Joe via telephone. Everything it did from that point forward, and everything that was reported in the media and never challenged - let alone refuted - only served to reinforce that narrative. Had the BOT done it's due diligence, acted in the best interest of the university and been thoughtful and deliberate in its actions, you better believe the public perception of Penn State would be very, very different today.
Now, having said that, the BOT was never going to do the right thing for reasons everyone on this board knows....and many reasons I'm sure we will never know. But the public's perception of Penn State was cast the night Joe was fired, and nobody outside of this board is going to take the time and effort to learn the truth, let alone understand that the false narrative widely accepted as the truth simply isn't.
It absolutely would have been different if the school had said not so fast. The narrative was set almost immediately because of the schools bend over and take it approach. If the people running the school say "yup. we're guilty and we're sorry" then why on earth is anyone outside of the school going to think otherwise? If OSU had fired Meyer last week, the narrative right now would be something along the lines of "he obviously didn't do enough, if he did OSU would have kept him."
Honestly, Joe didn't help with his statements either.
When he was fired, the torch and pitch fork crowd was already out. The media was already in the he must go mode. I’m not saying the BOT is blameless, but many on here are placing all the blame on them when much of the damage was caused by the mentality of taking down Penn State and Paterno.
The sanctions may have been different, but the piling on by the media and the mob would not have. In fact, it may have been worse with more people thinking Penn State only cared about winning football games and that’s why they were defending Joe. Many of you underestimate the desire to tear down a great person by the masses. The BOT handled it wrong, no doubt but that should not have excused the NCAA from stepping in where they didn’t belong.
If the university had place Joe on leave pending an investigation instead of firing him the mob and media wouldn't have been able to cite the university's response as their justification/confirmation. If the subsequent investigation is still the Freeh Report in this alternate universe the ultimate outcome is probably the same. If it's a legitimate investigation emphasizing Joe followed correct protocol and highlighted the outcome of the 98 case and how hard these types of predators are to detect things could have been different.
It would have also been better if Joe released a statement similar to Urban's instead of his hindsight statement and attempt to retire at season's end.
The state police chief who pontificated about Joe failing his moral responsibility did a good deal of damage as well. Interesting to compare his response to Powell PD.
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I agree with the first part of your statement, but I think anything Joe said would have been twisted. It’s not Joe’s fault everyone conveniently leaves out the “with the benefit of hindsight” part of the quote or the “I want to make this as easy on them as possible” part of his other quote. People hear what they want to hear.
It isn't Joe's fault but to steal from Joe, with the benefit of hindsight it would have been better if he'd written a letter like Urban's and then shut up. I think it's likely Urban's letter is written the way it is because of how misconstrued Joe's words were.
And if you think anything Joe said would have been twisted, Jay and Scott and whoever else was advising Joe should have realized this as well. The reactions schools have to these things today is very different because everyone involved with Penn State wrote the book on what not to do.
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One other thing that is overlooked in the argument that the BOT/school response wouldn't have mattered in the long run is that even if the public narrative isn't impacted, a better response from the BOT/school would have gone a very long way in preventing/healing a lot of the internal division within the Penn State community. You wouldn't have pissed off alums slamming the bot on a daily basis here. I don't think the board considered that impact at all in their original response, they were only concerned with the public/media.
I'm not so sure.
A trial balloon was sent out the other day in the form of a story. In that story they tried turning the victim, Courtney Smith, into the perpetrator by saying she sought retribution and was driven by rage. Not only was it not well received in the court of public opinion, but it crashed and burned upon take off. It would've been a disaster of epic proportions had it occurred at the Albuquerque Balloon Festival. Which makes me believe Urbs is unsalvageable. Their final move will be to fire Urbs for cause and defend themselves against wrongful termination in arbitration or civil court. In so doing they've cut their losses, both figuratively and literally ($$). It is not something I hope for. It's a gut feel. He's got to go. Now it's only a matter of how to frame it.
Joe wanted to release a statement. He called a news conference and the board cancelled it!
Joe did release a statement... it is where the hindsight quote comes from and when you read it today you can see he had no idea about the shitstorm that was coming and why it may have pissed off the board. https://www.businessinsider.com/joe-paterno-statement-2011-11
It would have been better if he'd just said, "I have always followed proper reporting protocols and procedures when I have learned of an incident involving a student-athlete, coach or former member of our staff by elevating the issues to the proper channels. And I did so regarding the Jerry Sandusky incident in 2001. I take that responsibility very seriously and any suggestion to the contrary is simply false."
I think they had a number of concerns that had a higher priority than public/media opinion. For instance, protecting themselves, family members, former trustees,settling scores, their business interests and currying favor with the governor.
Joe was cut off and not allowed to respond to the media because his Wednesday press conference was cancelled by the BOT. Otherwise, I am all but positive Joe remarks would have far surpassed Liar Meyer's lawyer-speak dribble. Joe had nothing to hide. He probably would have made comments that thrust the focus where it probably belonged: TSM and/or our BOT.
Yup, Joe waging a war in the media against the BOT would have ended well. Once he was fired he could have had his own press conference to thrust focus elsewhere but he didn’t because he wasn’t going to.
Exactly.
Everybody please think about JoePa in 2011 having a press conference in that media shyte storm. At the time, JoePa was in his 80's, would be dead in a few months and certainly could question his mental capabilities at that point. The PC would not have been with the familiar writers from the CDT, Harrisburg Patriot, York Daily Record, Reading Eagle, etc...it would have been with the A teams from ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, New York Times, Washington Post, etc. Talk about throwing someone to the Lions. The BOT did Joe a favor cancelling that press conference.
As you posted, JoePa could have had a PC anytime after he was fired and did not because his own PR/legal advisors advised against it.
That being said, he should have been placed on Admin leave subject to the outcome of an independent investigation.
Art Schlicter, we are tired of hearing your crapola on here!!! Go find someplace to gamble!!!
That makes no sense. OSU fans didn’t defend Penn State because the leaders didn’t want to be defended? So, OSU fans will do whatever PSU leadership wants them to?
Joe's comments showed that he held himself accountable for what happened. That's the correct and reasonable thing to do. He was the head football coach and as such, could have pushed the issue if he wanted to. Instead he trusted others and they screwed it up.
In contract, Urban's comments are those of a selfish individual who wants to push the blame on others, save his own butt and angle for as much money as possible.
I think the bottom line is that if Ohio St choses to keep Meyer, they do so with a very public perception that they have put football above all else and clearly have substantiated a pattern of turning a blind eye to abuse of their own student athletes.
This pattern extends beyond football and spouse abuse to wrestling, diving, sexual abuse, and can be assumed with this many data points to simply be how Ohio St does business. And the student athletes appear to have no where to turn to in reporting or protecting themselves from abuse.
Football for example is not just Zach Smith abusing his wife, DUI, etc. It is Urban Meyer hiring a known abuser, promoting him, retaining him years after multiple incidents. Urban Meyer cheating on his wife with coeds the same ages as his own daughters. Urban Meyer allowing criminals to overtake his locker room while at Florida and likely just a matter of time at Ohio St. Football is also both coordinators having abuse scandals of their own. It is Schiano very publically rejected by Tennessee for his abuse scandals but acceptable to Ohio St. It is Kevin Wilson fired by Indiana for abusing his own players mentally and forcing them to play against medical staff assessments of serious injuries. It is twice former Meyer assistant DJ Durkin leading a toxic environment abusive to players that now has lead to an unnecessary death.
Why would a student athlete ever subject themselves to the pervasive physical and sexual abusive Ohio St staff? Would they feel safe? Would they be able to trust Meyer, Schiano, and Wilson after they have time and time again betrayed the trust of so many?
If Ohio St keeps their AD, Urban Meyer, Greg Schiano, and Kevin Wilson, they do so in an open statement that they don't really care about their student athletes, their health and welfare, or the safety of their entire student body.
This pattern extends beyond football and spouse abuse to wrestling, diving, sexual abuse, and can be assumed with this many data points to simply be how Ohio St does business. And the student athletes appear to have no where to turn to in reporting or protecting themselves from abuse.
Football for example is not just Zach Smith abusing his wife, DUI, etc. It is Urban Meyer hiring a known abuser, promoting him, retaining him years after multiple incidents. Urban Meyer cheating on his wife with coeds the same ages as his own daughters. Urban Meyer allowing criminals to overtake his locker room while at Florida and likely just a matter of time at Ohio St. Football is also both coordinators having abuse scandals of their own. It is Schiano very publically rejected by Tennessee for his abuse scandals but acceptable to Ohio St. It is Kevin Wilson fired by Indiana for abusing his own players mentally and forcing them to play against medical staff assessments of serious injuries. It is twice former Meyer assistant DJ Durkin leading a toxic environment abusive to players that now has lead to an unnecessary death.
Why would a student athlete ever subject themselves to the pervasive physical and sexual abusive Ohio St staff? Would they feel safe? Would they be able to trust Meyer, Schiano, and Wilson after they have time and time again betrayed the trust of so many?
If Ohio St keeps their AD, Urban Meyer, Greg Schiano, and Kevin Wilson, they do so in an open statement that they don't really care about their student athletes, their health and welfare, or the safety of their entire student body.
And Joe was fired and shamed nationally. Urban will probably keep his job and no one will really care about this in 8 years.
Joe's letter was a power play against the board. One that he lost.
I power play is when someone makes a move to show they have the upper hand over someone else. To pull it off they'd then need to retain their position of power in order to complete the power play. A retirement letter is the opposite of that.
The NCAA and everyone else only piled on because the BOT allowed, maybe even encouraged or helped, them to. Had the BOT put up any defense of the University, I am absolutely convinced we wouldn't be viewed as we are by many today.
It seems as if the BOT handled the scandal as if the University was a corporation, not an institution of higher education, and totally failed to understand the attachment PSU alums have for Penn State...a unique bond other schools simply do not have.
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