Franklin needs to reflect on why he grasped Defeat from Jaws of Victory three times this year

[PA college fan]

He is timid in crunch time or Rahne is timid and he is not controlling him. Took ball away from McSorley on 4th down against Ohio St and today was colossal mistake— FG gets you nothing- 50/50 chance for win on 4th down and even if you don’t make it, satisfaction that you believed in one the guttiest QB in PSU history!!

This is from a Franklin fan— he works so hard 24/7 and recruits like crazy and I’m still proud of him— guess we just need to stack the deck with so much talent for him to take us to championships.

Much respect and love for Trace— it’s been quite a ride!!!

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Kicking FG was terrible decision

 

[Shadow99]

Kicking FG was terrible decision

Criticize the early part of the game or the third quarter play...because kicking a field goal with over 4 minutes remaining with ALL 3 timeouts was NOT a bad decision.

 

[JoeDidntKnow]

Why James? Why?

 

[pawildcat]

Kicking the FG was a bad decision, but your defense also needed to man up against a guy that ran up the middle for two crucial first downs against you.

 

[lein]

Criticize the early part of the game or the third quarter play...because kicking a field goal with over 4 minutes remaining with ALL 3 timeouts was NOT a bad decision.

With the problems we have kicking FGs, it was. Play to win, not to set up a chance to tie.

 

[jtm78]

Kicking the FG was a bad decision, but your defense also needed to man up against a guy that ran up the middle for two crucial first downs against you.

Maybe our program can learn about 4 minute offense from this!

 

[Bela84]

I agree that our special teams left a lot to be desired today, but kicking the field goal was a very wise decision. Always take the points in that situation. You have all three timeouts and over 4 minutes left in the game, so let your defense get a three and out and then the offense can go back to work. We had the edge the fourth quarter on both sides of the ball.

 

[PSUcup1]

Criticize the early part of the game or the third quarter play...because kicking a field goal with over 4 minutes remaining with ALL 3 timeouts was NOT a bad decision.

Yes it was.

 

[PA college fan]

Time to stop the hype and develop the talent and win games!! No more excuses- sanctions are over, we have the program to do much better. Develop the OLine, stop head scratching offensive calls, get a competent FG kicker and stop favoritism to underperforming upperclassmen. Just Coach, Coach!!

 

[PearlSUJam]

I agree that our special teams left a lot to be desired today, but kicking the field goal was a very wise decision. Always take the points in that situation. You have all three timeouts and over 4 minutes left in the game, so let your defense get a three and out and then the offense can go back to work. We had the edge the fourth quarter on both sides of the ball.

And then what? Get in field goal position again to try to tie it with a kicker that missed 2 easy ones early in the game? If you go for it and get don't get a TD, there's still 4:00 on the clock. Stop them and you have 2:00 on the clock to try to score a TD and take it out of your kickers hands.

 

[Shadow99]

Yes it was.

20-20 vision in hindsight...they should have been able to get the ball back with sufficient time to score...and there is no guarantee that you get 4th and 6...then a field goal would not even send it into overtime...
Conclusion: The fake field goal was terrible, keeping a lb that avoids contact in the game was not wise, but kicking the field goal in the fourth quarter was sound and could have led to a win...in 20-20 hindsight, it didn’t, but that doesn’t make it a poor decision

 

[PSUcup1]

20-20 vision in hindsight...they should have been able to get the ball back with sufficient time to score...and there is no guarantee that you get 4th and 6...then a field goal would not even send it into overtime...
Conclusion: The fake field goal was terrible, keeping a lb that avoids contact in the game was not wise, but kicking the field goal in the fourth quarter was sound and could have led to a win...in 20-20 hindsight, it didn’t, but that doesn’t make it a poor decision

No hindsight here .... I posted for him to go for it in the game thread

It was playing for a tie instead of a win.

And when did we try a fake FG?

 

[Shadow99]

No hindsight here .... I posted for him to go for it in the game thread

It was playing for a tie instead of a win.

And when did we try a fake FG?

Kudos to you for being aggressive; nothing wrong with your approach but doesn’t make the actual decision bad either...and why couldn’t PSU have scored a TD instead of a field goal if they did get the ball back sooner as they should have?

 

[77 PSU]

No hindsight here .... I posted for him to go for it in the game thread

It was playing for a tie instead of a win.

And when did we try a fake FG?

We didn’t try a fake fg

 

[Raffycorn]

It was an atrocious decision.

Probably the worst strategic decision of CJF’s tenure (during which, in total, he’s been well above average among his peers)

Even with MAKING the FG, he reduced the chances of PSU winning the game by over 30%.

Stunning.
Truly.

I tend to believe that nearly all of the criticisms of Franklin as a “poor game day coach” are almost entirely inaccurate (the reasons for that erroneous perception is a different conversation altogether) - but the only times I see where James tends to coach himself into trouble is when he gets too conservative, and I don’t think there’s ever been a situation where being conservative in a close game has turned out in his favor.

That said - the sin of coaching too conservatively is hardly an uncommon phenomenon in the profession. It’s the major thing that coaches all across both college and professional football consistently struggle with. It’s also incredibly easy to not do.

 

[AWS1022]

He is timid in crunch time or Rahne is timid and he is not controlling him. Took ball away from McSorley on 4th down against Ohio St and today was colossal mistake— FG gets you nothing- 50/50 chance for win on 4th down and even if you don’t make it, satisfaction that you believed in one the guttiest QB in PSU history!!

This is from a Franklin fan— he works so hard 24/7 and recruits like crazy and I’m still proud of him— guess we just need to stack the deck with so much talent for him to take us to championships.

Much respect and love for Trace— it’s been quite a ride!!!

Coming back from 27-7 is not grasping defeat from the jaws of victory. Give me a break.

 

[KFM74]

From equipment manager to head coach we have shown a remarkable level of incompetence in the last 5 minutes of a football game. Whether we are up by 10 or trying to mount a comeback.

 

[PSUcup1]

I tend to believe that nearly all of the criticisms of Franklin as a “poor game day coach” are almost entirely inaccurate (the reasons for that erroneous perception is a different conversation altogether) - but the only times I see where James tends to coach himself into trouble is when he gets too conservative, and I don’t think there’s ever been a situation where being conservative in a close game has turned out in his favor.

That said - the sin of coaching too conservatively is hardly an uncommon phenomenon in the profession. It’s the major thing that coaches all across both college and professional football consistently struggle with. It’s also incredibly easy to not do.

Well said. But he does have another fault .... loyalty to players who were clearly not productive

 

[58psu77]

It was an atrocious decision.

Probably the worst strategic decision of CJF’s tenure (during which, in total, he’s been well above average among his peers)

Even with MAKING the FG, he reduced the chances of PSU winning the game by over 30%.

Stunning.
Truly.

Interesting observation which I don’t doubt. Can you cite the cyber metrics or clarify on the 30%?

 

[Raffycorn]

Well said. But he does have another fault .... loyalty to players who were clearly not productive

Can’t disagree too much there - though it’s seemed as though that’s manifested a lot more this year than in 2014-17. And even this year, I think the only occasion where he’s plainly chosen to play an inferior player was the Koa Farmer situation - the other position battles have been pretty arguable (at best) whether the younger guy was a better option. Maybe Thompkins, but he’s been a good player for us for a number of years until his struggles this season. But for those situations, you also have Freiermuth assuming the starting role quickly over older guys, and Hamler quickly taking the reins over from Polk. But it’s definitely been more of a mixed bag for my liking, and the Koa situation was just inexcusable.

My hope is that Franklin may have had a bit of outsized loyalty to his first class of guys that are redshirt seniors this year. The two big litmus tests for me this coming offseason will be the battle between Clifford and Stevens and the middle linebacker battle between Johnson, Brandon Smith, Luketa and Brooks.

 

[GregInPitt]

The two big litmus tests for me this coming offseason will be the battle between Clifford and Stevens and the middle linebacker battle between Johnson, Brandon Smith, Luketa and Brooks.

And from what I saw today Brooks added significantly to his resume today for the 2019 MLB starting position. Johnson did a great job adequately manning the position while the younger more talented LB's got ready, but they are now ready!!

I'm all for Stevens getting a chance to run the offense, but that long pass Clifford dropped in to I believe Thompkins should be counted for his resume as well..... It would have been great to see what Clifford could do on a couple of run-option keepers but I would imagine that CJF did not want to have to entertain the possibility of playing Levis against UK, with McSorely and Stevens already unavailable at that point in the game....

 

[wbcincy]

It was an atrocious decision.

Probably the worst strategic decision of CJF’s tenure (during which, in total, he’s been well above average among his peers)

Even with MAKING the FG, he reduced the chances of PSU winning the game by over 30%.

Stunning.
Truly.

I see the odds of Kentucky winning going from 81.5% to 78% after the FG. I agree you have to go for it, not kick the FG, and I think your win probability only increasing by 3.5% bears that out, but no need to pretend it was a 30% drop rather than 3.5% gain, unless you have some other metric I’m unaware of.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

And then what? Get in field goal position again to try to tie it with a kicker that missed 2 easy ones early in the game? If you go for it and get don't get a TD, there's still 4:00 on the clock. Stop them and you have 2:00 on the clock to try to score a TD and take it out of your kickers hands.

Exactly. And it is not hindsight; most of us were yelling at the TV when the FG decision was made

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

Kudos to you for being aggressive; nothing wrong with your approach but doesn’t make the actual decision bad either...and why couldn’t PSU have scored a TD instead of a field goal if they did get the ball back sooner as they should have?

Whether Penn State kicks the FG or not, they still need to score a TD to win the game in regulation. CJF needed to give the team 2 chances at that TD, not just 1, by going for 4th and 6. The only 'advantage' to kicking the FG is it makes overtime more likely. Horrible, horrible decision making.

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

The 4th quarter FG decision wasn't nearly as bad as the 1st quarter fake punt. The benefit if you make the 1st down pales in comparison to the loss if you don't. Just gave an inferior team all of the momentum at the start of the game.

So which was it? A belief that we were an inferior team that needed to take a chance, or a superior team that decided it could be arrogant and curb-stomp an opponent (as in the 1987 Fiesta Bowl behavior by Jimmy Johnson).

We should not have been down by 20. The teams were not that disparate. It is as simple as that.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Whether Penn State kicks the FG or not, they still need to score a TD to win the game in regulation. CJF needed to give the team 2 chances at that TD, not just 1, by going for 4th and 6. The only 'advantage' to kicking the FG is it makes overtime more likely. Horrible, horrible decision making.

It would have been interesting to see what the play calling would have been if we got the ball back with 1:30 down by 3 on our 25 yard line.

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

(as in the 1987 Fiesta Bowl behavior by Jimmy Johnson).
.

Oddsmakers had a 7 point spread in both games....

 

[LionDeNittany]

The 4th quarter FG decision wasn't nearly as bad as the 1st quarter fake punt. The benefit if you make the 1st down pales in comparison to the loss if you don't. Just gave an inferior team all of the momentum at the start of the game.

So which was it? A belief that we were an inferior team that needed to take a chance, or a superior team that decided it could be arrogant and curb-stomp an opponent (as in the 1987 Fiesta Bowl behavior by Jimmy Johnson).

We should not have been down by 20. The teams were not that disparate. It is as simple as that.

It is a bowl game. Nothing to lose really. Playing for nothing and just go out and have fun.

LdN

 

[Keyser Soze 16801]

It would have been interesting to see what the play calling would have been if we got the ball back with 1:30 down by 3 on our 25 yard line.

2 kicks were already missed so would it be sensible to play for a FG attempt?

If we were down by 5, kicking the FG would have made some sense. But not down by 6.

CJF needs to spend some time with Doug Pederson in the offseason

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

It is a bowl game. Nothing to lose really. Playing for nothing and just go out and have fun.

LdN

Well then, if that's the attitude then why kick a FG in the 4th? That decision is inconsistent with your perspective.

I don't think it's "fun" to let the other team seize momentum and enjoy leading the entire game.

 

[JayWye]

Kicking FG was terrible decision

No, it wasn't!!

 

[wlawn]

Time to stop the hype and develop the talent and win games!! No more excuses- sanctions are over, we have the program to do much better. Develop the OLine, stop head scratching offensive calls, get a competent FG kicker and stop favoritism to underperforming upperclassmen. Just Coach, Coach!!

Coach...you mean like ST

 

[Springcity]

He is timid in crunch time or Rahne is timid and he is not controlling him. Took ball away from McSorley on 4th down against Ohio St and today was colossal mistake— FG gets you nothing- 50/50 chance for win on 4th down and even if you don’t make it, satisfaction that you believed in one the guttiest QB in PSU history!!

This is from a Franklin fan— he works so hard 24/7 and recruits like crazy and I’m still proud of him— guess we just need to stack the deck with so much talent for him to take us to championships.

Much respect and love for Trace— it’s been quite a ride!!!

Michigan State did the same thing against us relying on their defense . Difference is ours did not come through

 

[ShinerTexas]

Dumb call. Let Trace win it in his last freaking game after he got hosed against Ohio St. Or worst case you have KY backed up in their own end with 4 mins left. I was at the game and KY fans were thrilled we didn’t go for it on 4th

 

[PSU Dave]

Criticize the early part of the game or the third quarter play...because kicking a field goal with over 4 minutes remaining with ALL 3 timeouts was NOT a bad decision.

And I’ll add momentum was on your side as well. No problem with that decision.

 

[Pocono Lion]

Criticize the early part of the game or the third quarter play...because kicking a field goal with over 4 minutes remaining with ALL 3 timeouts was NOT a bad decision.

The reasons you just gave, over 4 minutes left, all 3 TO’s left, are the reason why it WAS a bad decision. I’m not looking for OT, need to score a TD anyway and you’re already inside the 15. No guarantee you’re going to get that close again.

 

[PearlSUJam]

2 kicks were already missed so would it be sensible to play for a FG attempt?

If we were down by 5, kicking the FG would have made some sense. But not down by 6.

CJF needs to spend some time with Doug Pederson in the offseason

I'm not so sure it would have even been a good idea down by 5 with the kicking situation.

 

[AWS1022]

Can’t disagree too much there - though it’s seemed as though that’s manifested a lot more this year than in 2014-17. And even this year, I think the only occasion where he’s plainly chosen to play an inferior player was the Koa Farmer situation - the other position battles have been pretty arguable (at best) whether the younger guy was a better option. Maybe Thompkins, but he’s been a good player for us for a number of years until his struggles this season. But for those situations, you also have Freiermuth assuming the starting role quickly over older guys, and Hamler quickly taking the reins over from Polk. But it’s definitely been more of a mixed bag for my liking, and the Koa situation was just inexcusable.

My hope is that Franklin may have had a bit of outsized loyalty to his first class of guys that are redshirt seniors this year. The two big litmus tests for me this coming offseason will be the battle between Clifford and Stevens and the middle linebacker battle between Johnson, Brandon Smith, Luketa and Brooks.

It manifested a lot more this year because these older players are the guys that came to PSU early on in Franklin’s PSU career and helped him get things going in the right direction when we were still hurting from the sanctions. Of course he’s going to be loyal to them. If you start a business and struggle the first few years and your employees don’t make much money but stick with you, wouldn’t you be more loyal to them after your business becomes successful? I would hope so, if not then there are some character issues here.

 

[TheGLOV]

He is timid in crunch time or Rahne is timid and he is not controlling him. Took ball away from McSorley on 4th down against Ohio St and today was colossal mistake— FG gets you nothing- 50/50 chance for win on 4th down and even if you don’t make it, satisfaction that you believed in one the guttiest QB in PSU history!!

This is from a Franklin fan— he works so hard 24/7 and recruits like crazy and I’m still proud of him— guess we just need to stack the deck with so much talent for him to take us to championships.

Much respect and love for Trace— it’s been quite a ride!!!

If you kick the FG which we did, you must then attempt the on-sides kick.

We did not; we were doomed.