Freeh Resolution

[RussianEagle]

So it was a "non-event" that someone closely identified with PSU was being investigated by a grand jury for the sexual abuse of children? That knowledge alone should have caused PSU to prepare for a shit storm. Had it amounted to nothing, it could have counted it's lucky stars that it dodged a bullet. As it turned out, it proved that Spanier should never have been put in charge of running anything more complicated than a newsstand.

The fact that Sandusky was under investigation was a big news story (locally) on March 31, 2011. Why did all these BOT members not make a big deal about it then? All of them obviously saw it as a non-event as well. Them blaming Spanier is BS!

 

[RussianEagle]

Wait, so are you trying to say you think he’s innocent?

That is a view shared by the Federal Agent who investigated Graham Spanier to determine if he should have his top secret security clearance taken away after he was fired from PSU. Check out the Search Warrant podcast with John Snedden.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/search-warrant/id1484811502?i=1000459076808

 

[MacNit07]

Wow! I didn’t realize that I was in the presence of such an intellectual giant.

BTW, given that I’m not seated until July 1, 2020, I’m not privy to any of the discussions surrounding the fall semester. However, I will note that I did request to participate on the weekly BOT calls so that I could be up to speed when I am seated. Unfortunately, that request, which was made in early May, has fallen on deaf ears.

As for righting the wrongs heaped on the University by Freeh, my fervent belief is that OUR community cannot heal until we address these transgressions. Seems to me all we’ve done is to run away from them. But what do I know, I’m apparently not the intellect that you are.

C’est la vie!

With you all the way Anthony. I’ll bet you are capable of multitasking too?!

 

[MacNit07]

You're assuming that the BoT members were fully, or at least meaningfully, engaged with the issue in advance of the shit hitting the fan. Unfortunately, this isn't the way Boards operate. Members have their own companies/organizations to run and participation on these Boards is a diversion. Yes, they want to help their schools, but not if it demands full-time attention.

The dynamic, at corporations as well as universities, is that board members typically follow the lead of the CEO/President of the organization. There are/can be notable exceptions, but this is the rule.

In the case of Sandusky, the record shows that on the infrequent occasions when the topic came up, Spanier dismissed it as a non-event, not a threat to PSU. The Board accepted that. There are no indications to the contrary. The failure is almost entirely Spaniers's (were I to assign numbers, it would be 90/10). Had he conveyed a greater sense of threat/urgency, I believe that, with the Board's assistance, PSU would have been better prepared in November 2011.

So that my words are not misconstrued, this in no way excuses the Board's conduct in the aftermath.

I believe Art is spot on here...Spanier under estimated that this would be a big deal and he and the University paid a heavy price (unfairly IMO). The BoT was complicit (probably worse) and bungled their role - starting with firing Spanier and Paterno.

 

[Art]

The fact that Sandusky was under investigation was a big news story (locally) on March 31, 2011. Why did all these BOT members not make a big deal about it then? All of them obviously saw it as a non-event as well. Them blaming Spanier is BS!

I'm not privy to any of the discussions that took place at the Board level in re Sandusky. As far as I know, the "big news" to which you refer is Ganim's report the a grand jury was investigating Sandusky. I also recall some accounts that the matter was brought up by the Board (who, when, or how frequently I don't remember or know) and Spanier glossed over it as nothing.

Keep in mind that that Boards do not run organizations on a day-to-day basis. They oversee, consult, and ratify the actions of management.

Should the BoT have been more vigilant and active in the lead-up to Sandusky? Sure, you'll get no argument from me. Does that excuse Spanier from being absent at the helm? No way, pilgrim.

 

[RussianEagle]

I'm not privy to any of the discussions that took place at the Board level in re Sandusky. As far as I know, the "big news" to which you refer is Ganim's report the a grand jury was investigating Sandusky. I also recall some accounts that the matter was brought up by the Board (who, when, or how frequently I don't remember or know) and Spanier glossed over it as nothing.

Keep in mind that that Boards do not run organizations on a day-to-day basis. They oversee, consult, and ratify the actions of management.

Should the BoT have been more vigilant and active in the lead-up to Sandusky? Sure, you'll get no argument from me. Does that excuse Spanier from being absent at the helm? No way, pilgrim.

What do you propose Spanier should have done? Should he have conducted his own investigation to find out what was really going on? I don’t even think he knew McQueary was the witness until it was leaked a few days after the arrest. Would he have gotten in trouble for interfering in a police investigation and possibly tainting witnesses?

 

[Bob78]

I'm not privy to any of the discussions that took place at the Board level in re Sandusky. As far as I know, the "big news" to which you refer is Ganim's report the a grand jury was investigating Sandusky. I also recall some accounts that the matter was brought up by the Board (who, when, or how frequently I don't remember or know) and Spanier glossed over it as nothing.

Keep in mind that that Boards do not run organizations on a day-to-day basis. They oversee, consult, and ratify the actions of management.

Should the BoT have been more vigilant and active in the lead-up to Sandusky? Sure, you'll get no argument from me. Does that excuse Spanier from being absent at the helm? No way, pilgrim.

I agree that Spanier has the majority of the blame for lack of prep, and that's where his blame should end, imo. But he got no help at from his legal counsel, Baldwin, who not only mishandled the distribution of the subpoenas, but then screwed up with the PSU guys as their presumed counsel.

Why wasn't Baldwin in his ear about taking this seriously? About preparing? Why didn't any of the ~30 BOT members ask a few follow-up questions and show some leadership by insisting that they dig deeper into a shocking allegation? Just how convincing was Spanier in telling them there was nothing to see? A room full of supposed leaders and everyone thought everything seemed okay with that reaction to that serious of an allegation?

It appears, imo, as though everyone at that level was just intellectually lazy regarding this. For nearly three dozen people who are in positions of leadership to shrug it off is just not another Tuesday.

 

[Bob78]

What do you propose Spanier should have done? Should he have conducted his own investigation to find out what was really going on? I don’t even think he knew McQueary was the witness until it was leaked a few days after the arrest. Would he have gotten in trouble for interfering in a police investigation and possibly tainting witnesses?

Here's where I think Spanier needed to ask more questions, see what else he could do, get Counsel more involved, dust off the crisis management playbook, ask the BOT who had some expertise here and what their ideas might be (Ken? Peetzie? TaterMan? any thoughts you'd like to share here?). So not to investigate, but to re-look at what he did recall from then (which he may have done), ask Baldwin to offer some expert legal guidance(ha!), etc.

I think this was on him, although I don't believe he had any ill intent. I think he truly miscalculated, and downplayed it, so bad on him. But there was plenty of chances to challenge that by the BOT and Baldwin, and nada. He screwed up, and they all nodded with brains disengaged, or so it seems.

 

[pandaczar12]

There is a difference between "clairvoyance" and preparedness. You live in a hurricane zone. The weather forecasters predict a reasonable chance of a hurricane hitting your area. It's not a sure thing, so do you do nothing because you are not "clairvoyant," or do you prepare?

A more accurate analogy is that you don't live in a hurricane zone, and there is almost zero chance the hurricane hits your area. Do you prepare?

I believe Art is spot on here...Spanier under estimated that this would be a big deal and he and the University paid a heavy price (unfairly IMO). The BoT was complicit (probably worse) and bungled their role - starting with firing Spanier and Paterno.

I get that people don't like Spanier, I've had more interaction with him than most, and I'd agree he's a prick. But he was good at what he did. If you want to blame him because the buck stops at the top, so be it. But the fix was in, who wouldn't have underestimated it? Who expects to get thrown under the bus and have their constitutional rights trampled? He was put into an impossible situation, where people who did the exact right thing, got thrown under the bus. You can't prepare for that. Blaming it on Spanier detracts from who's fault it really is.

 

[Petch]

Why should I trust you? You have shown that either you are ignorant of the basic facts of the case or that you are an old guard BOT/OAG troll or both.

Yeah...I’m betting old guard BOT. Nothing to see here folks...much more important things to attend to.

 

[Art]

A more accurate analogy is that you don't live in a hurricane zone, and there is almost zero chance the hurricane hits your area. Do you prepare?



I get that people don't like Spanier, I've had more interaction with him than most, and I'd agree he's a prick. But he was good at what he did. If you want to blame him because the buck stops at the top, so be it. But the fix was in, who wouldn't have underestimated it? Who expects to get thrown under the bus and have their constitutional rights trampled? He was put into an impossible situation, where people who did the exact right thing, got thrown under the bus. You can't prepare for that. Blaming it on Spanier detracts from who's fault it really is.

Ok, so you live in a hurricane zone where:

a. the person under investigation is closely identified with your institution;

b. you are aware of two of the incidents, one of which you know is under investigation and occurred on your campus

and you believe that there is zero chance of any blowback on your school. Yup, Spanier was an idiot.

 

[indynittany]

I believe Art is spot on here...Spanier under estimated that this would be a big deal and he and the University paid a heavy price (unfairly IMO). The BoT was complicit (probably worse) and bungled their role - starting with firing Spanier and Paterno.

The only thing Spanier underestimated was the lengths Corbett was willing to go.

 

[RussianEagle]

Here's where I think Spanier needed to ask more questions, see what else he could do, get Counsel more involved, dust off the crisis management playbook, ask the BOT who had some expertise here and what their ideas might be (Ken? Peetzie? TaterMan? any thoughts you'd like to share here?). So not to investigate, but to re-look at what he did recall from then (which he may have done), ask Baldwin to offer some expert legal guidance(ha!), etc.

I think this was on him, although I don't believe he had any ill intent. I think he truly miscalculated, and downplayed it, so bad on him. But there was plenty of chances to challenge that by the BOT and Baldwin, and nada. He screwed up, and they all nodded with brains disengaged, or so it seems.

Thanks, but even if this little Q&A session was commenced, everyone would have still lost their minds when the words “anal intercourse” were muttered months later.

 

[RussianEagle]

Ok, so you live in a hurricane zone where:

a. the person under investigation is closely identified with your institution;

b. you are aware of two of the incidents, one of which you know is under investigation and occurred on your campus

and you believe that there is zero chance of any blowback on your school. Yup, Spanier was an idiot.

The McQueary incident was conspicuously not mentioned in Ganim’s 3/31 article, even though the grand jury testimony of the witnesses had already occurred. Spanier may have wrongly concluded the OAG had already determined it to be a non-event.

 

[Art]

What do you propose Spanier should have done? Should he have conducted his own investigation to find out what was really going on? I don’t even think he knew McQueary was the witness until it was leaked a few days after the arrest. Would he have gotten in trouble for interfering in a police investigation and possibly tainting witnesses?

What do you propose Spanier should have done? Should he have conducted his own investigation to find out what was really going on? I don’t even think he knew McQueary was the witness until it was leaked a few days after the arrest. Would he have gotten in trouble for interfering in a police investigation and possibly tainting witnesses?

Nothing that I write will convince you and your coterie that fervently believe that Jerry is innocent and Grammy Pants a victim of anything to the contrary. But put this in your pipe and smoke it: PA law would not have prevented Gammy Pants from asking Magic Mike if he had testified before the Grand Jury and the nature of that testimony.

 

[AvgUser]

Ok, so you live in a hurricane zone where:

a. the person under investigation is closely identified with your institution;

b. you are aware of two of the incidents, one of which you know is under investigation and occurred on your campus

and you believe that there is zero chance of any blowback on your school. Yup, Spanier was an idiot.

If the opposition/enemy is not playing by ethical and legal standards, no amount of planning and preparedness can ever foresee nor protect against the hurricane.

And, if your team consists of traitors and those with nefarious intent, no amount of planning and preparedness can ever foresee nor protect against the hurricane.

 

[Art]

The McQueary incident was conspicuously not mentioned in Ganim’s 3/31 article, even though the grand jury testimony of the witnesses had already occurred. Spanier may have wrongly concluded the OAG had already determined it to be a non-event.

See my post immediately following yours. Spanier= idiot, and PSU paid dearly for it.

 

[Chris92]

@lubrano
Don't overlook rejecting the Freeh Recommendations. The McChesney diary confirms Barbara Mather to be the Freeh team's Higher Ed "Compliance and Ethics" SME. Mather served a log stretch on the Swartmore College's Board of Managers, including Chair from 2004-2012. Did anyone notice the Swarthmore Title IX dumpster fire that ignited in 2013?

To their credit, the Freeh team bench marked against other Big Ten schools in coming up with their recommendations. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe bench marking against Lou Anna Simon's hot mess, Michigan and Ohio State wasn't such a great idea.

 

[Art]

If the opposition/enemy is not playing by ethical and legal standards, no amount of planning and preparedness can ever foresee nor protect against the hurricane.

And, if your team consists of traitors and those with nefarious intent, no amount of planning and preparedness can ever foresee nor protect against the hurricane.

All of which Spanier knew and excuses him from making no attempt.

 

[PSU_Chicago]

This will be a case study about failure to manage risk by an entity and its CEO someday. Spanier among others at PSU mismanaged it, to his detriment.

 

[RussianEagle]

Nothing that I write will convince you and your coterie that fervently believe that Jerry is innocent and Grammy Pants a victim of anything to the contrary. But put this in your pipe and smoke it: PA law would not have prevented Gammy Pants from asking Magic Mike if he had testified before the Grand Jury and the nature of that testimony.

Whatever the case, we should be able to agree that the complete lack of communication between Spanier, Curley, Schultz, and Paterno during the time period completely blows up the theory that there was some kind of nefarious “cover up”

 

[Art]

Whatever the case, we should be able to agree that the complete lack of communication between Spanier, Curley, Schultz, and Paterno during the time period completely blows up the theory that there was some kind of nefarious “cover up”

I agree completely. And I do not believe that Spanier did anything criminal. He is guilty of a lot of bad judgement that came back to bite PSU on the ass. It shouldn't have, but it did.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

But the fix was in, who wouldn't have underestimated it? Who expects to get thrown under the bus and have their constitutional rights trampled? He was put into an impossible situation, where people who did the exact right thing, got thrown under the bus. You can't prepare for that. Blaming it on Spanier detracts from who's fault it really is.

Agreed. BTW, who hired and placed Ms. Baldwin as the first ever General Counsel to the university? Ms. Baldwin accompanied (drove?) Spanier, Curley and Schultz to their Grand Jury depositions and told them that they did not need to prepare. How do you think this affected Spanier's interpretation of these events?

Anyone who thinks the BOT acted incompetently during this timeframe doesn't have a clue about what went down. They executed this precisely according to the plan.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Nothing that I write will convince you and your coterie that fervently believe that Jerry is innocent and Grammy Pants a victim of anything to the contrary. But put this in your pipe and smoke it: PA law would not have prevented Gammy Pants from asking Magic Mike if he had testified before the Grand Jury and the nature of that testimony.

Maybe GS asked MM that very question. Do we have it on the record that he did not?

Keep in mind that MM's GJ testimony (which I do not believe we have ever seen) is NOT reflected in the GJ presentment. We know this because MM objected to the presentment as being false and was rebuffed by the OAG.

 

[PSU2UNC]

Agreed. BTW, who hired and placed Ms. Baldwin as the first ever General Counsel to the university? Ms. Baldwin accompanied (drove?) Spanier, Curley and Schultz to their Grand Jury depositions and told them that they did not need to prepare. How do you think this affected Spanier's interpretation of these events?

Anyone who thinks the BOT acted incompetently during this timeframe doesn't have a clue about what went down. They executed this precisely according to the plan.

Does anyone have any insider information (or townie gossip) about the circumstances surrounding Baldwin being hired? Obviously, PSU needed an internal general counsel but why her? Was there a national search?

 

[PSU123281]

Need a tissue?

You must be a lonely old man.

Thanks again for proving my point.

 

[indynittany]

This will be a case study about failure to manage risk by an entity and its CEO someday. Spanier among others at PSU mismanaged it, to his detriment.

How about a case study of corruption and cronyism in state government?

 

[indynittany]

Agreed. BTW, who hired and placed Ms. Baldwin as the first ever General Counsel to the university? Ms. Baldwin accompanied (drove?) Spanier, Curley and Schultz to their Grand Jury depositions and told them that they did not need to prepare. How do you think this affected Spanier's interpretation of these events?

Anyone who thinks the BOT acted incompetently during this timeframe doesn't have a clue about what went down. They executed this precisely according to the plan.

Yes, she did drive Tim and Gary.

And don't forget that the Freeh report was used as a defacto grand jury presentment supporting the charges later levied against Spanier.

 

[Art]

Maybe GS asked MM that very question. Do we have it on the record that he did not?

Keep in mind that MM's GJ testimony (which I do not believe we have ever seen) is NOT reflected in the GJ presentment. We know this because MM objected to the presentment as being false and was rebuffed by the OAG.

Trying to prove something that didn't happen? Seriously?

Can't say whether there is a verbatim transcript of the Magic One's Grand Jury testimony, but there are ones of his before criminal juries. They do not reflect "horsing around."

 

[PSU2UNC]

Trying to prove something that didn't happen? Seriously?

Can't say whether there is a verbatim transcript of the Magic One's Grand Jury testimony, but there are ones of his before criminal juries. They do not reflect "horsing around."

They do not reflect "anal rape" either.

 

[Art]

They do not reflect "anal rape" either.

In the larger picture, that doesn't matter. PSU got screwed and there is no evidence that Spanier consulted with anyone else to determine if it were at risk and needed to be protected. Perhaps when he writes his memoirs, Grammy Pants will tell the world what a hero he was. Should make for some great reading while on the throne.

 

[Nitt1300]

The only thing Spanier underestimated was the lengths Corbett was willing to go.

depths, not lengths

 

[Nitt1300]

I've never understood the argument that Joe should have gone to the police. What was he supposed to say exactly- that he was reporting an incident that he didn't witness involving somebody who didn't work for him? He wouldn't even have been allowed to testify in court- it's called hearsay.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I've never understood the argument that Joe should have gone to the police. What was he supposed to say exactly- that he was reporting an incident that he didn't witness involving somebody who didn't work for him? He wouldn't even have been allowed to testify in court- it's called hearsay.

On a similar note, I’m not sure what a call to social services by him or any of the Penn State people would have done without the kid’s name. It’s not really within their purview (at least from my experience) to start an investigation without a known victim.

 

[didier]

Not me on the brother-in-law stuff. Must be confusing me with another poster on that one.

I saved the post because it was interesting. Going back and looking at it... it was a friends brother-in-law who was a doc and prep lawyer for PSU's PR firm. The friend had spoken to his brother-in-law and that's what he told him. It was posted by a "Kiber" on June 14, 2013.

 

[AvgUser]

All of which Spanier knew and excuses him from making no attempt.

Spanier knew that the OAG were crooked and deliberately lying. Ummm, ok.

Spanier knew that that the BOT would do anything and everything to protect someone or something. Ummm, ok

 

[Art]

Spanier knew that the OAG were crooked and deliberately lying. Ummm, ok.

Spanier knew that that the BOT would do anything and everything to protect someone or something. Ummm, ok

I'm sure Grammy Pants is pleased to know that there is at least one other person, other than himself, who believes that Grammy is always the smartest guy in the room.

 

[AvgUser]

Trying to prove something that didn't happen? Seriously?

Can't say whether there is a verbatim transcript of the Magic One's Grand Jury testimony, but there are ones of his before criminal juries. They do not reflect "horsing around."

Correct. His testimony is filled with “I would have...”, “I glanced...”. “I heard ...” and all sorts of non-specific statements that it is not certain what he saw/heard. Toss in the likelihood that he waited several months to tell anyone and you have an upstanding witness.

I am neutral in Spanier. You are clearly not. Could it have been managed better. Sure. But he was ambushed, blindsided, tricked, and not able to ‘fight’ on fair terms. You can not overlook those factors.

 

[Art]

Correct. His testimony is filled with “I would have...”, “I glanced...”. “I heard ...” and all sorts of non-specific statements that it is not certain what he saw/heard. Toss in the likelihood that he waited several months to tell anyone and you have an upstanding witness.

I am neutral in Spanier. You are clearly not. Could it have been managed better. Sure. But he was ambushed, blindsided, tricked, and not able to ‘fight’ on fair terms. You can not overlook those factors.

I'm not overlooking those factors. I'm also not overlooking that he did nothing to prepare and protect PSU in the lead up. Hard to be neutral when that's the case.

 

[rmem]

I've never understood the argument that Joe should have gone to the police. What was he supposed to say exactly- that he was reporting an incident that he didn't witness involving somebody who didn't work for him? He wouldn't even have been allowed to testify in court- it's called hearsay.

It's so funny because if he had done the ridiculous thing and went to the police, then the attack on Joe probably would have been far less severe. But picture it, "You must investigate this man. Someone told me he did something bad".

And let's not forget, McQueary was the one who should have done that. I will never forgive him for not doing so. Not giving absolution to his Dad or Doctor Douchebag either.