FRL 243: NCAA Cheating Discussion

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Here's the video link for those interested:

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1...s-verbal-haters-have-us-fired-up#.WgH4-miPJPY

Highlights for those who didn't listen/watch:

Starting at 11:50, CP talks about coaches cheating. CP says he wants to report on it and do coverage on it, but the coaches and athletes are not willing to put their name out there and be a whistleblower. He mentions hearing stories about loan forgiveness through RTCs, 100% scholarship through camps. He's hearing this from D1 coaches who could be hearing this from recruits.

At 13:10 Willie jumps in and says that they're starting to get incrementally more data points and coaches approaching them and saying that this type of stuff is occurring. He follows by saying that the difficulty as a journalist on this is that they keep hearing more things, and it sounds like a situation with where there is smoke there is fire, but no one is going on record and coming out with hard evidence.

14:40 CP & Willie mention that there could also be unintended consequences if cheating is exposed (RTCs paying for scholarships or loan reimbursement, such as shutting down all the RTCs on campus.

They end by saying it seems like it's only a matter of time before someone comes out and exposes what's going on.

 

[dunkej01]

how big of a smile did you have posting that here?

 

[backdrft76]

Honest question. Is all that really cheating? Or is it exposing a loophole in a system that wasn't being exposed before, and therefore may need to be addressed?

 

[jammenz]

So FLO busts Cael but says they can't do anything about because they don't want to get dope slapped again.

 

[purescurve]

Here's the video link for those interested:

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1...s-verbal-haters-have-us-fired-up#.WgH4-miPJPY

Highlights for those who didn't listen/watch:

Starting at 11:50, CP talks about coaches cheating. CP says he wants to report on it and do coverage on it, but the coaches and athletes are not willing to put their name out there and be a whistleblower. He mentions hearing stories about loan forgiveness through RTCs, 100% scholarship through camps. He's hearing this from D1 coaches who could be hearing this from recruits.

At 13:10 Willie jumps in and says that they're starting to get incrementally more data points and coaches approaching them and saying that this type of stuff is occurring. He follows by saying that the difficulty as a journalist on this is that they keep hearing more things, and it sounds like a situation with where there is smoke there is fire, but no one is going on record and coming out with hard evidence.

14:40 CP & Willie mention that there could also be unintended consequences if cheating is exposed (RTCs paying for scholarships or loan reimbursement, such as shutting down all the RTCs on campus.

They end by saying it seems like it's only a matter of time before someone comes out and exposes what's going on.

That's one heck of a term paper. Atta boy

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Honest question. Is all that really cheating? Or is it exposing a loophole in a system that wasn't being exposed before, and therefore may need to be addressed?

I did an in depth post on the camp pay bylaws. I'll link it here if you're curious in reading it:
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/thre...tion-to-student-athletes.199673/#post-4565725

I'll add the caveat that I do every single time that I have this discussion - I am not an insider. I have no inside information. I've just done research on the bylaw camp pay guidelines.

And as many here know, I have called/emailed the athletic compliance departments of around 10 schools including Iowa, PSU, Minn, Okie St, OSU, Alabama, Michigan, Auburn to ask for information on how they handle athlete pay for working summer camps. Only 1 program gave me a response - Iowa.

 

[4INSBU]

If I follow it's cheating. I'm taking this to mean someone is paying a kid's tuition/room & board out of a "slush" fund and it doesn't count towards the 9.9 scholarship limit. That's more than a loophole in the system.

 

[dunkej01]

Honest question. Is all that really cheating? Or is it exposing a loophole in a system that wasn't being exposed before, and therefore may need to be addressed?

the making post graduate promises written or verbal to get a signature is wrong, unethical and probably illegal via the NCAA rulebook. I have heard of this happening before at Ivy schools because of their lack of schollies.

however, I think with the rebirth of FS/GR in the US, there is now an unforeseen loop hole or draw to school X because of their RTC.

I know everybody and their brother is pointing fingers at us but our club, only DT is a NLWC and PSU alum currently. Others wrestling under the NLWC are either grads from other schools or are undergrads for now.

so if this is going on now how is it us?

If they are saying recruit X, Y, Z from the 2018 class, hey will do this for you in 2023 kind of hard to prove just yet.

#hatersaregonnahatehatehate

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Here's the video link for those interested:

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/1...s-verbal-haters-have-us-fired-up#.WgH4-miPJPY

Highlights for those who didn't listen/watch:

Starting at 11:50, CP talks about coaches cheating. CP says he wants to report on it and do coverage on it, but the coaches and athletes are not willing to put their name out there and be a whistleblower. He mentions hearing stories about loan forgiveness through RTCs, 100% scholarship through camps. He's hearing this from D1 coaches who could be hearing this from recruits.

At 13:10 Willie jumps in and says that they're starting to get incrementally more data points and coaches approaching them and saying that this type of stuff is occurring. He follows by saying that the difficulty as a journalist on this is that they keep hearing more things, and it sounds like a situation with where there is smoke there is fire, but no one is going on record and coming out with hard evidence.

14:40 CP & Willie mention that there could also be unintended consequences if cheating is exposed (RTCs paying for scholarships or loan reimbursement, such as shutting down all the RTCs on campus.

They end by saying it seems like it's only a matter of time before someone comes out and exposes what's going on.

Do they mention that they're hearing most of this through a disgruntled vodka drinker and his cronies on the Hawkeye Report?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I know everybody and their brother is pointing fingers at us but our club, only DT is a NLWC and PSU alum currently. Others wrestling under the NLWC are either grads from other schools or are undergrads for now.

so if this is going on now how is it us?

If they are saying recruit X, Y, Z from the 2018 class, hey will do this for you in 2023 kind of hard to prove just yet.

According to the NLWC website, Nico, Matt Brown, and Conaway are in the club. Also, Molinaro just left to take a coaching job.

 

[WildTurk]

Well this isn't good way to promote the sport we all love! Only a matter of time until someone in the know opens up. I hope they do if there truly is cheating going on.

 

[WildTurk]

Do they mention that they're hearing most of this through a disgruntled vodka drinker and his cronies on the Hawkeye Report?

This is coming from Flo not HR

 

[goethe14]

Only from HR could you get this association.

 

[dunkej01]

According to the NLWC website, Nico, Matt Brown, and Conaway are in the club. Also, Molinaro just left to take a coaching job.

Nico is making probably more $ than most working in SC and training but fair enough

Matt Brown just wrestled and was not under NLWC but the US Army but if he is fair enough

Conaway I have yet to see wrestle a post grad event but if he is nlwc fair enough.

Cant wait for the big reveal! Gonna be great.

 

[vhsalum]

I've heard the rumors myself from other D1 coaches. But at this point that's all they are. I HOPE it's just a loophole that is being exploited, if these rumors are true. Because if it's clear cut illegal, we can all kiss the RTCs and America's World Team Title hopes goodbye. It was USA Wrestling that lobbied for the RTCs. The NCAA has no vested interest ($$$$) to keep them around.

It has been the funding of the RTCs, the athletes, the coaches that has led to our resurgence as possible, annual, team title contenders.

Gilman - Post Graduate
Stieber - Post Graduate
Zain - in college
Green - Post graduate
Burroughs - Post Graduate
Cox - Post Graduate
Snyder - in college
Gwiz - Post Graduate

So while I think our teams will continue to get younger and younger (Fix, McKee, Yianni, Hall, Zahid, Moore, Steveson) - our freestyle is inarguably the best we have ever seen from a depth standpoint.

 

[dunkej01]

I've heard the rumors myself from other D1 coaches. But at this point that's all they are. I HOPE it's just a loophole that is being exploited, if these rumors are true. Because if it's clear cut illegal, we can all kiss the RTCs and America's World Team Title hopes goodbye. It was USA Wrestling that lobbied for the RTCs. The NCAA has no vested interest ($$$$) to keep them around.

It has been the funding of the RTCs, the athletes, the coaches that has led to our resurgence as possible, annual, team title contenders.

Gilman - Post Graduate
Stieber - Post Graduate
Zain - in college
Green - Post graduate
Burroughs - Post Graduate
Cox - Post Graduate
Snyder - in college
Gwiz - Post Graduate

So while I think our teams will continue to get younger and younger (Fix, McKee, Yianni, Hall, Zahid, Moore, Steveson) - our freestyle is inarguably the best we have ever seen from a depth standpoint.

VHS.....we dont know you. You dont know us. Do the rumors include PSU? Cause I have heard rumors and they didnt include PSU. Right up until this class signed, then there was rampant speculation that PSU had to copy what others were doing for this class because they are all FS guys that figure to be wrestling post grad. But i never heard about specific guys just the inference that they had to be doing it because......

 

[backdrft76]

If PSU is being speculated, then I am assuming tOSU is on everyone's radar then too. Correct?

That said, I sure wish FLO would open their mouths to what they have heard specifically. Unless they are the first media outlet in the country that is waiting for facts to come in before they start spouting off rumors. Oh wait, nevermind.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

I've heard the rumors myself from other D1 coaches. But at this point that's all they are. I HOPE it's just a loophole that is being exploited, if these rumors are true. Because if it's clear cut illegal, we can all kiss the RTCs and America's World Team Title hopes goodbye. It was USA Wrestling that lobbied for the RTCs. The NCAA has no vested interest ($$$$) to keep them around.

It has been the funding of the RTCs, the athletes, the coaches that has led to our resurgence as possible, annual, team title contenders.

Gilman - Post Graduate
Stieber - Post Graduate
Zain - in college
Green - Post graduate
Burroughs - Post Graduate
Cox - Post Graduate
Snyder - in college
Gwiz - Post Graduate

So while I think our teams will continue to get younger and younger (Fix, McKee, Yianni, Hall, Zahid, Moore, Steveson) - our freestyle is inarguably the best we have ever seen from a depth standpoint.

I'm a fan of the RTC system. I feel like we should be able to find a way to allow the RTC to exist without it being used as a means to bypass the 9.9 scholarship limitation. The NCAA needs to fix the bylaws. The loopholes need to be closed.

Also, the fundamental way the NCAA handles compliance is flawed. As it currently stands, it's each school's responsibility to monitor their athletic compliance. The NCAA does not handle auditing unless news breaks of a by law being broken. It is a conflict of interest to have each school oversee the compliance of bylaws, when many bylaws are incredibly vague and open to abuse.

 

[vhsalum]

VHS.....we dont know you. You dont know us. Do the rumors include PSU? Cause I have heard rumors and they didnt include PSU. Right up until this class signed, then there was rampant speculation that PSU had to copy what others were doing for this class because they are all FS guys that figure to be wrestling post grad. But i never heard about specific guys just the inference that they had to be doing it because......

PSU was mentioned specifically in each case. The D1 coach didn't have proof, but there is a belief that PSU's recruiting pitch involves athletes being able to pay tuition through the camp system and/or loans being paid off post graduation.

Personally, I chalk it up to sour grapes. I just believe Cael and staff literally run circles around the rest when it comes to recruiting AND developing.

So again, from the mouth of D1 coaches, there are legs to the rumors. I hope they are untrue. Because when I talk about Cael and staff, I give glowing reports and I believe he's shifting the paradigm in NCAA wrestling.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

This is coming from Flo not HR

Sorry you couldn't follow the pronouns.

Do the Flo guys mention that they (the Flo guys) are hearing most of this from a disgruntled vodka drinker and his cronies on HR?

 

[dunkej01]

If PSU is being speculated, then I am assuming tOSU is on everyone's radar then too. Correct?

That said, I sure wish FLO would open their mouths to what they have heard specifically. Unless they are the first media outlet in the country that is waiting for facts to come in before they start spouting off rumors. Oh wait, nevermind.

yes

 

[El-Jefe]

I know everybody and their brother is pointing fingers at us but our club, only DT is a NLWC and PSU alum currently. Others wrestling under the NLWC are either grads from other schools or are undergrads for now.

DT is Titan Mercury funded, just wears an NLWC singlet.

 

[dunkej01]

DT is Titan Mercury funded, just wears an NLWC singlet.

He must not have had as much to pay back i guess.....whats this world coming too.

 

[El-Jefe]

PSU was mentioned specifically in each case. The D1 coach didn't have proof, but there is a belief that PSU's recruiting pitch involves athletes being able to pay tuition through the camp system and/or loans being paid off post graduation.

Of course this is a fly riddled pile of steaming crap.

Cael has been at PSU for enough years, made recruiting pitches to countless athletes who went elsewhere ... and we're to believe that either (1) not one of those other schools' wrestlers all that time said a single word to anyone, or (2) Cael only made illicit offers to the guys he landed. Even Jackie Sherrill couldn't come up with that kind of hush money.

Also, (3) simple math says you can't pay off college costs by working camps. Anybody dumb enough to think this is feasible won't get past PSU Admissions.

 

[WildTurk]

Sorry you couldn't follow the pronouns.

Do the Flo guys mention that they (the Flo guys) are hearing most of this from a disgruntled vodka drinker and his cronies on HR?

I follow the flonouns.

 

[nitlion6]

According to the NLWC website, Nico, Matt Brown, and Conaway are in the club. Also, Molinaro just left to take a coaching job.

Matt Brown trains at the Penn State training center as a member of the US Army.

 

[WildTurk]

So are you guys mad at Willie again? Or he only talked about it because of "HR"?

 

[Pennstate1985]

This sounds a lot like the rumors that Iowa is not a fun room to be in, and that the wrestlers are treated like robots. It starts with one person, but if said enough times by different people, it's true!!!

 

[goethe14]

Of course this is a fly riddled pile of steaming crap.

Cael has been at PSU for enough years, made recruiting pitches to countless athletes who went elsewhere ... and we're to believe that either (1) not one of those other schools' wrestlers all that time said a single word to anyone, or (2) Cael only made illicit offers to the guys he landed. Even Jackie Sherrill couldn't come up with that kind of hush money.

Also, (3) simple math says you can't pay off college costs by working camps. Anybody dumb enough to think this is feasible won't get past PSU Admissions.

No no you're wrong. Everyone except the Brands boys are cheating. Once this is all flushed out Iowa will return to their podium which they believe the be only theirs.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

DT is Titan Mercury funded, just wears an NLWC singlet.

How do you know this?

 

[goethe14]

So are you guys mad at Willie again? Or he only talked about it because of "HR"?

No just for the Flo headline welcoming NIck Lee to College. Unless you have better reading skills than I, I don't see multiple posters screaming about Willie.

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

Matt Brown trains at the Penn State training center as a member of the US Army.

Yes looks like you're right. However, it does say he was previously a resident member of the NLWC.

Straight from the website, "Last year, Matt switched from the Resident Athlete Program to the U.S Army WCAP program."

 

[dunkej01]

Yes looks like you're right. However, it does say he was previously a resident member of the NLWC.

Straight from the website, "Last year, Matt switched from the Resident Athlete Program to the U.S Army WCAP program."

Morgan Mac is working for uncle sam too. So you can cross him off the list of guys getting kick backs from the nlwc

#caring

 

[PapaBearSLIM]

In a post that was largely brushed over on HR a month ago Mike Tognetti said that Fix's parents told him that what's being discussed here was offered to Fix by PSU. Coming from a known troll I won't vouch for validity but he's not anonymous and that would be a pretty bold lie to tell on the Fixes while continuing to lurk around the program.
Started here on page 3 and Tognetti posts on page 12:
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/tea-leaves-say-teske-to-psu.203491/page-3#post-4658918

Progression that led to Tognetti post:

I'm starting to have a hard time believing how many recruits there are who turn down full rides at other schools, to go to PSU for a discount. Money is an important factor for most kids and families when deciding which college to go to.

How is it, that all of the top wrestlers at PSU magically don't care about money? I don't buy it.

Because they are promised club $ after graduation to pay off there student loans.

Don't you guys get tired of this stuff? Really, link one shred of proof.

Nitt fan, hate to tell you but he is 100% right. They offered Fix the same deal. Heard it from his parents.

 

[pawrest01]

First time poster but long time reader. There are a couple things I can't get my head around and was hoping to gain some insight from the most knowledgeable college fan base in the country.

I have been suckered over to the HR board from time to time just to see the inevitable train wreck that most of their threads turn into and I can't help but ask.... In the Iowa gable years, I wonder how many people accused them of cheating? In comparison, Cael has won less Championships and recruited less "studs" but yet Gable is considered a god and Cael is a cheater.. Are they really that ignorant or is there something that I missed in my 25 plus years following wrestling? If you know anything about wrestling, you can see Cael, or parts of him, in every guy he has coached (i.e. ankle picks, leg riding, aggressiveness, etc). To say he can't coach is the same as saying Gable couldn't coach as you saw a little of Gable in every wrestler he ever had in his room. The disrespect is one thing but the utter ignorance is another. I have traveled to few different places to watch PSU wrestle, mainly at Ohio State and I can say from experience, the vast majority of their true fans are knowledgeable and give credit where credit is due. Is it because Iowa is just that bad and the board consists of the most butthurt fans of any sport or again, did I miss something along the way to warrant the hatred for Cael/PSU.

This is not an attempt to start a riot, more of an attempt to gain insight into something I can't wrap my head around as a true fan of the sport.

Any insight much appreciated

 

[goethe14]

Yes looks like you're right. However, it does say he was previously a resident member of the NLWC.

Straight from the website, "Last year, Matt switched from the Resident Athlete Program to the U.S Army WCAP program."

He was also ROTC, straight A's and one of the finest humans around. Probably not the most ideal candidate for a cheating scandal. I think you need a new hobby. You are perhaps a tad too invested into your Hawks wins and losses. Calling multiple schools athletic departments is let's just say unique. Unless you're Willie's alias lol.

 

[Pennstate1985]

First time poster but long time reader. There are a couple things I can't get my head around and was hoping to gain some insight from the most knowledgeable college fan base in the country.

I have been suckered over to the HR board from time to time just to see the inevitable train wreck that most of their threads turn into and I can't help but ask.... In the Iowa gable years, I wonder how many people accused them of cheating? In comparison, Cael has won less Championships and recruited less "studs" but yet Gable is considered a god and Cael is a cheater.. Are they really that ignorant or is there something that I missed in my 25 plus years following wrestling? If you know anything about wrestling, you can see Cael, or parts of him, in every guy he has coached (i.e. ankle picks, leg riding, aggressiveness, etc). To say he can't coach is the same as saying Gable couldn't coach as you saw a little of Gable in every wrestler he ever had in his room. The disrespect is one thing but the utter ignorance is another. I have traveled to few different places to watch PSU wrestle, mainly at Ohio State and I can say from experience, the vast majority of their true fans are knowledgeable and give credit where credit is due. Is it because Iowa is just that bad and the board consists of the most butthurt fans of any sport or again, did I miss something along the way to warrant the hatred for Cael/PSU.

This is not an attempt to start a riot, more of an attempt to gain insight into something I can't wrap my head around as a true fan of the sport.

Any insight much appreciated

So you aren't aware that Gable used creative math with schollies? To the point that the NCAA had to close a loophole as I recall. Are Iowa fans really calling foul on the creative use of loopholes here, if indeed it is even occurring?

 

[anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb]

He was also ROTC, straight A's and one of the finest humans around. Probably not the most ideal candidate for a cheating scandal. I think you need a new hobby. You are perhaps a tad too invested into your Hawks wins and losses. Calling multiple schools athletic departments is let's just say unique. Unless you're Willie's alias lol.

I never said he wasn't those things. I was just responding to the poster above who stated the only current PSU guy in the NLWC was DT which is just factually incorrect.


Took me way less time than the time we all spend posting on wrestling forums.

 

[vhsalum]

I get it. I deal with it personally in another way. People accuse you of cheating when the only thing you are doing is running circles around them. Like I've said before. I hope it's untrue. Unfortunately, the rumor persists and where there's smoke...

The fact that CPyles is comfortable saying it on FRL that multiple D1 coaches have spoken to him about it is a big deal. While he gets his information wrong, he certainly has a better reputation as only reporting on what he can confirm through sources. His sources may be wrong, but he's not into making stuff up.

We shall see. As a Hawk fan, I just want it to be known that I think Cael is the best coach in NCAA wrestling. Period. It's clear his guys wrestle without fear, something every other NCAA coach wishes they were better at.

 

[goethe14]

I never said he wasn't those things. I was just responding to the poster above who stated the only current PSU guy in the NLWC was DT which is just factually incorrect.


Took me way less time than the time we all spend posting on wrestling forums.

Don't you think there is a difference posting on a free wrestling board and actually contacting 10 major University's' Athletic departments?