David receives funding from NLWC and also receives compensation from Titan. David has his new club up and running, partnered with McKnight. He does multiple clinics.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Yes, one is pure speculative shit talk.
The other is taking action to try to understand what procedures are actually in place to monitor/audit compliance of the bylaws.
Here's a quote straight from U Michigan's athletic compliance page:
"To Fans and Friends of Michigan Athletics:
Greetings! It is critical that all of us do our part to learn and abide by NCAA rules that impact Michigan recruits, student-athletes, coaches, and boosters. The goals of the Athletic Department compliance program are to:
• Control and operate the athletics program in accordance with all applicable NCAA, conference, and institutional rules to maintain a culture of compliance.
• Monitor all aspects of the University's athletics programs to ensure compliance; identify and report to the NCAA all instances in which compliance has not been achieved; and affirm that appropriate corrective actions are taken.
• Help all fans and friends of the Michigan athletic program comply with all applicable NCAA, conference, and institutional rules.
Please feel free to contact the Compliance Services Office at (734) 615-7341 with any questions about NCAA rules. Go Blue!
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Heinrich
Executive Senior Associate AD and Chief Student Development and Compliance Officer"
If you take offense with me asking questions, that's your prerogative and quite frankly idgaf.
I'd rather inform myself directly rather than read internet speculation on a forum. Unfortunately, none of the compliance offices I called upheld their mission statements other than U Iowa's.
I had a laugh when I called PSU's and the lady on the phone said "they were in a department meeting and no one was available, but they would call me back". She took my phone number. You can guess whether or not I got a call back.
and your alternative facts are right too.....when they suit your purpose.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
You used the website which was not updated correctly. minor but facts matter right?
Morgan no longer trains at the RTC. He is now training to be a US Army Green Beret. Possibly already a training graduate and an active special forces dude.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
We've had the NCAA so far up our asses the past few years I would be absolutely shocked if anything shady was happening inside the Penn State athletic department.
I don't know how Cael does it, and honestly I don't care as long as he's not cheating. If there were truth to it, somebody would have contacted the NCAA with evidence by now.
Let me ask you this Vodka. If that Oompa Loompa in charge of your program doesn't figure it out soon, how long will the Hawkeye faithful wait until they demand a new coach?
if your going to be an investigative anonymous poster make sure your facts are correct. I mean if you want to be taken seriously of course.
#whenfeedingkoiisnotfeedingkoi
Yes, one is pure speculative shit talk.
The other is taking action to try to understand what procedures are actually in place to monitor/audit compliance of the bylaws.
Here's a quote straight from U Michigan's athletic compliance page:
"To Fans and Friends of Michigan Athletics:
Greetings! It is critical that all of us do our part to learn and abide by NCAA rules that impact Michigan recruits, student-athletes, coaches, and boosters. The goals of the Athletic Department compliance program are to:
• Control and operate the athletics program in accordance with all applicable NCAA, conference, and institutional rules to maintain a culture of compliance.
• Monitor all aspects of the University's athletics programs to ensure compliance; identify and report to the NCAA all instances in which compliance has not been achieved; and affirm that appropriate corrective actions are taken.
• Help all fans and friends of the Michigan athletic program comply with all applicable NCAA, conference, and institutional rules.
Please feel free to contact the Compliance Services Office at (734) 615-7341 with any questions about NCAA rules. Go Blue!
Sincerely,
Elizabeth Heinrich
Executive Senior Associate AD and Chief Student Development and Compliance Officer"
If you take offense with me asking questions, that's your prerogative and quite frankly idgaf.
I'd rather inform myself directly rather than read internet speculation on a forum. Unfortunately, none of the compliance offices I called upheld their mission statements other than U Iowa's.
I had a laugh when I called PSU's and the lady on the phone said "they were in a department meeting and no one was available, but they would call me back". She took my phone number. You can guess whether or not I got a call back.
The irony of you writing an essay in response to my statement and my thought you may be a tad too invested in this is totally escaping you.. Unless you are a reporter it boggles my mind that any person would do this. Which led me to the statement you may need a new hobby you are a tad too invested. If you think any department is going to respond to someone they don't know without any credentials, with anything but a form letter I don't know what to tell you. If they respond at all.
Nico does train, but he trains around a full time schedule working for New York Life.
Conaway trains and is compensated through the NLWC. Jordan gets about half of what he was offered to take an assistant coaching position for an EWL program. He like most recent college graduates struggles to pay off his college loans.
Molinaro left several years ago to coach at Rutgers. When he decided he wanted to take a run at the Olympic team he came back to train with Cael, Cody and Casey.
He just left again to take the job at VT. While here his wife was elevated to acting head coach of the women's gymnastics team. She missed on the opportunity to the head coach so Frank could take the VT job. If Frank's compensation was so outlandishly high training at the NLWC I kinda figured they would have stayed to see if her acting status became permanent.
Just so we understand...Your report is going to include information that you got from the internet, without verifying it?
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Which fact did I get wrong? I was just pulling information directly from the NLWC website to see who is currently in the club. Are you trolling right now?
Think we need to get past the anti-Hawk comments and crusade here. Flo are the ones that are indeed reporting this without citing sources and creating this shitstorm. Sure would be nice if they would back it up so the speculation could end.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Iowas program responded.
I don't care what you say or think of me personally so have at it.
When you say Iowa responded, I am pretty certain I remember reading your post on HR where you acknowledged a very generic and vanilla response.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
I got it from the NLWC website. That has to be the best easily accessible source online right? Which information was wrong again?
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
They gave a follow up. I can post it here if you're interested. Obviously didn't give specific numbers, but I appreciated the response and it's a lot better than nothing. It at minimum signifies that the compliance department is aware of the situation.
I was not aware of that but that was admittedly in my younger years when I was more worried about competing than following. Thanks for the info.
Yeah, and I should've added in my haste: PSU was very late to the game of having outside sponsors. Titan Mercury, Sunkist, NYAC all been around the other major programs long before DT.
I do not need to see it. I believe you. But it still sounds like a generic and vanilla response.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Here was the response from the Iowa department for those interested:
"The Iowa Compliance Office does audit all sport camp activity including student-athlete employment. We collect and audit payroll documentation from all of our institutional camps to verify how much student-athletes, institutional staff and non-institutional staff are being paid to work Iowa camps.
We also work with non-institutional camps and clinics to educate and verify how much they pay student-athletes in the instance a student-athlete is asked to work a non-Iowa camp or clinic during the summer."
I asked for some follow-up on pay variance between athletes/sports and they gave another response:
"There is some variance in wages paid amongst different sports, but nothing too different. Most sport camps pay by the hour, so they set an hourly rate."
"The Iowa Compliance Office does audit all sport camp activity including student-athlete employment. We collect and audit payroll documentation from all of our institutional camps to verify how much student-athletes, institutional staff and non-institutional staff are being paid to work Iowa camps.
We also work with non-institutional camps and clinics to educate and verify how much they pay student-athletes in the instance a student-athlete is asked to work a non-Iowa camp or clinic during the summer."
I asked for some follow-up on pay variance between athletes/sports and they gave another response:
"There is some variance in wages paid amongst different sports, but nothing too different. Most sport camps pay by the hour, so they set an hourly rate."
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
Yeah, I'd like more. That's the reason I reached out to a bunch of departments to see how much detail I could get and if some schools would give more info than others. Obviously they're not likely to give hard numbers. I didn't expect to only get a response from one school though.
My only thought regarding you is that you read Don Quixote. Be careful those windmills are everywhere.
I've heard rumors too, both involved programs in the Midwest, one of which has a very active message board community. It will not be easy for honest programs like Penn State to keep pace with the cheaters.
Vodka: Nobody here is going to take you seriously. It appears you have an echo chamber on the HR, so you'll be with good company there.
but know that the day it comes out this is real you will have won the internet and your participation medal will be forthcoming from the bwi community.
till then keep a stiff upper lip.
but know that the day it comes out this is real you will have won the internet and your participation medal will be forthcoming from the bwi community.
till then keep a stiff upper lip.
I love Willie and Flo and to their credit they have never said FRL was anything but some guys who are sitting around shooting the bull talking wrestling. They are allowed to relay unsubstantiated gossip and the like, just like you and I can do here on a message board and give their opinions. They are not required, nor should they in this format, to back those up with facts gained through investigation.
I'm sure they have heard from multiple coaches that there is something up. There is no doubt in my mind that PSU has been mentioned a lot. What exactly is mentioned I would guess varies and is kind of grey rather than black and white IMO.
I have been fortunate to interact with a number of D1 wrestling coaches and ex-coaches, and more than fortunate enough to call more than one of them my friend. I can tell you this - that they are a cross section of the population like many other professions. Some incredibly bright, some others that you interact with and know they didn't graduate from Princeton. Some leave you feeling like if they said it, it's rock solid; others saying stuff - maybe not purposely - that you know is not right.
I've been down this before and would love to discuss this with Willie - who would - and CP - who probably wouldn't, lol - but the cheating accusations that people spout about payments out of slush fund (outright cheating) or spots at the RTC (which would be grey, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you sit down and think about it) don't and can't really hold water when you actually get down to it and think it through step-by-step. The promise of future spots at the RTC is really no promise at all with a benefit that is not available to everyone who earns it. And there is not one incident of a RTC spot given to anyone who hasn't earned it at ANY RTC that I have seen. I've given this example before - Nico can earn more money in his field of choice than at the NLWC - what benefit is a promise of a spot there to him? I've had some dumbass retorts to this who seem to think that $50K a year is breaking the bank for a recent college grad who did very well in school and has a great athletic background - do these people live in the real world????
Bottom line, if having a great and powerful RTC associated with your school which will provide opportunities for an athlete who accomplishes great things during his time in college is cheating, well then PSU and a couple other teams are cheating. I can't see this as cheating, but can be certain that their are a few coaches not in that position that probably do think it is cheating. And I imagine PSU catches the brunt of this because their RTC is so visible, has the most money, and because they leave those coaches in the dust in March.
I'm sure they have heard from multiple coaches that there is something up. There is no doubt in my mind that PSU has been mentioned a lot. What exactly is mentioned I would guess varies and is kind of grey rather than black and white IMO.
I have been fortunate to interact with a number of D1 wrestling coaches and ex-coaches, and more than fortunate enough to call more than one of them my friend. I can tell you this - that they are a cross section of the population like many other professions. Some incredibly bright, some others that you interact with and know they didn't graduate from Princeton. Some leave you feeling like if they said it, it's rock solid; others saying stuff - maybe not purposely - that you know is not right.
I've been down this before and would love to discuss this with Willie - who would - and CP - who probably wouldn't, lol - but the cheating accusations that people spout about payments out of slush fund (outright cheating) or spots at the RTC (which would be grey, but doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you sit down and think about it) don't and can't really hold water when you actually get down to it and think it through step-by-step. The promise of future spots at the RTC is really no promise at all with a benefit that is not available to everyone who earns it. And there is not one incident of a RTC spot given to anyone who hasn't earned it at ANY RTC that I have seen. I've given this example before - Nico can earn more money in his field of choice than at the NLWC - what benefit is a promise of a spot there to him? I've had some dumbass retorts to this who seem to think that $50K a year is breaking the bank for a recent college grad who did very well in school and has a great athletic background - do these people live in the real world????
Bottom line, if having a great and powerful RTC associated with your school which will provide opportunities for an athlete who accomplishes great things during his time in college is cheating, well then PSU and a couple other teams are cheating. I can't see this as cheating, but can be certain that their are a few coaches not in that position that probably do think it is cheating. And I imagine PSU catches the brunt of this because their RTC is so visible, has the most money, and because they leave those coaches in the dust in March.
If the day comes that we can't use the slush fund anymore, we'll switch to the new dunke funde!
Iowa was not taking advantage of a loophole. They took the value of an out-of-state scholarship and multiplied that dollar value by 9.9 (11 prior to the 10% cut) and used that calculated value to fund the scholarship needs of the wrestling team. That wasn't a loophole, it was cheating.
Wrestlers getting paid to work summer camps and clinics has been going on since I was going to Clarion's camps in the 70s.
To clarify your post, I believe Gable multiplied 11 scholarships at the time by the out-of-state dollars (let's say $20,000) to arrive at $220,000 total, and then divided that amount by the in-state scholarship dollars (let's say $10,000) to arrive at 22 potential in-state scholarships or 11 out-of-state schollies or a combination thereof. Something close to that I believe. Iowa wasn't penalized, and though I agree that it was cheating, it appears the NCAA took it as a loophole of sorts.
As a season ticket holder, my bet is if I asked, I would get a response. If I asked some random school, I should get the Heisman......which I would deserve. Students get paid for camps.......big deal......well known fact. Working off loans after graduation.....like most every other college student.
PSU gets kids to come for less than a full ride.......because of the guy at the top. He can make their wrestling dreams come true......everyone knows it. They will also be on teams which make history.....everyone knows it. Wrestling families, by the time they are college ready, already understand the ROI of what they are doing.
Vodka: If you're serious about ridding the sport of this scourge, then please post your concerns about Ohio State on their board.
Here is the link:
http://ohiowrestling.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=1
I really give a pass to FLO in regards to the bolded above. They have been upfront in their characterization of FRL. It is not journalism, it is some wrestling guys sitting around shooting the bull - which is great. The problem is the people who take it as gospel. CP is still getting crap about his Suriano statement. He didn't write an article about it, he talked about what he heard in a bull session that was for public consumption. I don't take that as gospel, nor should anyone else. I was glad I was able to listen to it at the time even if it turned out to be wrong. They are not Woodward and Bernstein. Media does not equal journalism.
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anon_0pi0cv8t1ggvb
Guest
OSU posters don't flood every thread in HR.
Also, that forum is utterly terrible web design. That place must be infected with viruses lol. I'll stay away.
BTW, while at tournament recently a mother of a 2017 recruit relayed what her son - who will be attending an Ivy League school - is doing currently. He has delayed admission and has a sponsor through the university who is sending him around the world on a cultural program. He will be visiting various countries including one where he will get some training in. Is this cheating? No, this, although not the norm, is not uncommon at this institution which has many wealthy benefactors and one of the largest endowments in the nation. It is happening at a D1 institution. It is perfectly on the up-and-up but can you imagine the backlash to this if it happened at a school that had won 6 out of the last D1 championships?
Im not talking about FRL. while the whale of wrestling there are other journalists out there.
heck im suprised Nj.gov hasnt picked up on this.....
Iowa did receive a reduction in scholarships for a period of time. Also a number of other schools were doing this as well.
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