Never heard of "underdog karma" before. Interesting!
Why would the ref be on Arnold's side?
Gabe Arnold vs. CStar
- Thread starter jsn4388
- Start date
Why would the ref be on Arnold's side?
If I could find a few Hawks still willing to wager, I will put my money on Gabe going this year, but definitely at 184. It makes the most sense for the team and for his potential finish this year.
Completely agree on Levi -- except they won't face in the finals. Franek probably isn't beating Shapiro and matches up poorly with Teemer.
I view Chittum as an NCAA quarterfinals-level opponent, and that was a quarters-type match.
Also true - Robb’s serious infection had another 12 hours or so to fester
If we want to keep going down this road: Nico had to be hospitalized in OKC, but won his last 2 matches anyway.
Robb competed. Franek won.
Look, I'm not interested in a pissing match over credit.
Robb was dealing with an extraordinary situation during that match (and to some extent, Levi's match too). Seems worth mentioning.
Someone asked above why I thought a ref might be on Arnold’s side. I don’t mean bribery, just that a rabid home crowd screaming ‘stalling’ right off the handshake may influence calls that are subjective to begin with. No matter. I’m old, selfish, and impatient, with a jones for edge-of-seat athletic drama, and hope the bout happens. I take heat for saying Iowa’s block of defensive granite has a fighting chance, and that’s fine. Neither age nor arrogance lets me forget #12 seed SVN being a minute away from keeping Yianni a 3-timer, or unheralded Ramos actually doing that to mighty Spencer. And, hell, if AOC wasn’t some 30-year-old guy (kidding), Levi’s a true frosh champ a year after dancing at his HS prom. That said, if I’m betting (ooh, sorry, Hawks), it’s on Carter.
Robb tried to go against Ed Scott after Jared Franek and basically stopped immediately. Safe to say he wasn't himself anymore.
Was Robb affected against Levi? I would imagine a little bit. Levi did beat him at B1Gs but in SV and I know there was a controversial no 2 for Robb, it was very neck and neck.
But here's the big difference, Levi was 18, Franek is what 24? I think Levi improves this year, I think Franek is what he is (a damn good defensive wrestler)
Was Robb affected against Levi? I would imagine a little bit. Levi did beat him at B1Gs but in SV and I know there was a controversial no 2 for Robb, it was very neck and neck.
But here's the big difference, Levi was 18, Franek is what 24? I think Levi improves this year, I think Franek is what he is (a damn good defensive wrestler)
Carver Stall Calls come generously for sure (they don't get called at B1G or NCAA). But also, the wrestler generally earns them through 2 avenues:
1. Outshooting opponents with bad shots and hanging on (ADS on RBY))
2. Shoving opponent to the edge (Marinelli on Berge)
Gabe is welcome to try either on Carver and see how it goes
1. Outshooting opponents with bad shots and hanging on (ADS on RBY))
2. Shoving opponent to the edge (Marinelli on Berge)
Gabe is welcome to try either on Carver and see how it goes
This is a more nuanced take, but I'm also frustrated when refs confuse dominance with stalling. Caliendo was working his butt off all match against Carr. He was one of the most active wrestlers in the dual, but got hit with more stalling calls than anybody.
One guy beating the tar out of the other doesn't mean the other is always stalling.
One guy beating the tar out of the other doesn't mean the other is always stalling.
What about when fans want top stalling called because their guy can't figure a way to get out
Sorry I wasn't clear. The guy was referring to an earlier-in-thread comment (#40) I made about a Gabe/Carter bout next Feb at the dual. I was referring to a ref possibly being influenced by CHA at that time. My bad.
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Is the top man making legitimate attempts to turn AND the bottom guy is working hard to rebuild a base, get to his feet, etc...? Then no. That's legit wrestling action from both.
Not a hawk but I’ll go with Gabe at 174 . I listened to his post match interview seems like 184 was a one time thing but maybe I heard what I wanted to hear .
If he wrestles at ncaa’s in March at 184 you win 174 I win .
I’ll bet as long as you keep it a friendly wager.
I’ll join ya in not wanting a pissing match . I thought the same thing after listening to an interview Robb gave . It for sure affected him some during the match .
I wonder if it affected him as much as Levi’s torn meniscus affected Levi .
Can’t wait to see Levi wrestle again. Kid deserves a championship I hope this is his year.
To avoid being accused of being an accomplice to an assault.
I haven't been a PIAA official in quite some time, but in rules interpretation meetings back in the day, you weren't stalling if you were being overpowered.
Yeah I heard Gabe himself said 174 mostly in recognition of his height of all things not scaling up 184 frames too well. This led to the discussion of his weight decent plan back to 174.
We will have to see what the crazy twins think, but Gabe at 184 seems to make the most sense for their team and the PSU dual.
Of course we all want more than anything Gabe vs Carter it's just too juicy.
Their team is going to be a mess if Gabe goes back to 174. PK will be forced out of the lineup altogether (he's a natural 165, so he can't go up to 184), and they only have "room guy" 184s left on their roster.
Call it a hunch, but I believe that stall calls (in duals), are the biggest impact fans can have in the outcome of their sport. The home crowd almost always get what it wants in that regard--especially when they have a hammer on top (we have lots of experience w/ this at Rec). At least now stalling is less of a game changer w/ the 3pt TD. It'd be interesting to see the data on stall calls home vs away.
Sure, but in this particular case, Gabe has a better chance winning NCAAs against Keck, Truax, etc. at 184 than C-Star, Griffith, and Mekhi, which is a murderer's row at 174, so it's a little unique in his situation. Gabe seems like the kind of guy who would relish the opportunity to face Starocci rather than duck him for a better chance to win, though, so, we'll see what happens.
To be fair, Iowa was hit pretty hard by the gambling investigation. I would hope that other recruits would understand if there had to be some juggling temporarily to make up for roster holes. We don't want beating Iowa to become too easy. Otherwise, it's no fun.
Or redshirt him so he can go for 4 and be in the next Olympic cycle. He looks good.
He does look good, prolly the best looking freshy they have had since the chosen one. It’s gonna be tough to RS him. First step is gonna be coming to the realization they arent winning a title with or without him.
edit: is he qualified for OTT? 74 kg, right? Is he really gonna wanna wrestle 184 then make that cut?? Or is he 86 kg?
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A RS is basically accepting a punt year. I don't know if they can mentally reconcile with that, but it's not a bad idea. They're already behind the 8-ball because of the gambling stuff anyway.
And you know what the beautiful part is? It doesn't matter in the least! The three point takedown took that toy away from them.
Hit pretty hard? Maybe not upon review.
Come January you could potentially see:
Ayala [same as pre-scandal]
Teske [same]
Woods [same]
VV/AF [same]
Franek [big upgrade]
Caliendo [upgrade]
Kennedy [toss-up, maybe slight decline from Brands]
Arnold [upgrade over Assad]
Whoever [same]
AJ [toss-up]
This is arguably a just as good, probably better, line-up then they imagined pre-gambling [pre-transfers from NDSU]. The only significant loss is Cass, but if AJ shows up and is (IMO) too big for 197, then they both weren't seeing the line up anyway.
**This assumes going after their highest possible point total at this years NCAAs.
Gabe is not listed on the probables for this weekend for Iowa (at either weight), and said in a recent interview that 174 was always the plan for him. Therefore, either he is still contemplating RS or is working on his descent back to 174 and isn't ready yet. He seems like someone who would want to seek out rather than duck a matchup with Starocci, so it looks like it may happen. Also appears that PK might be getting the squeeze and they're punting 184 for this season.
I agree and disagree here.
There were a lot of stall calls against Iowa in that dual, but the way the guy was calling them was both welcome - as in that would be good if it was always called that way - and warranted in almost every case.
Not Caliendo, he came to wrestle and was just outmatched. Unfortunately, Carr was jacked up and his pace was very high in contrast. If you put Caliendo pace up against just about any other wrestler's in the dual and it was fine, maybe when above average. He wasn't stalling.
There is a counter argument that you may get from some refs that they are awarding the stall call to reward the pace or the dominance. That's not the rule, per se, but it is an argument. I'm not sure I disagree with that. Theory being that in just about every case like this it will have no bearing on the outcome, but is just the ref putting an exclamation point on the performance, which does give some satisfaction to the wrestler, coaches, and fans.
I remember A couple years ago how jazzed I was that we would have 4 years of Kennedy/Facundo. SMFT
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