I think our defense is going to be one for the ages.
Gross-Matos is a freak athlete
- Thread starter PearlSUJam
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In that video, Gross-Matos' move is a standard Defensive End move. The real issue in that video is #53, Rasheed Walker. If he can't deal with a standard DE move, then we are going to have serious issues on the offensive line.
But yes, Gross-Matos is a great Defensive End and I look forward to seeing him excel this season on the defensive line.
You do have a ton of athletes out there. If Mustipher, Windsor, and the rest of the DT's can hold their own up the middle....it should be a very solid defense with playmakers all over the place.
Gross-Matos is going to be a top 15 pick next year. Rasheed Walked isn’t going to be the only starting tackle in the conference to have issues with Yetur.
I have to agree. It looks like that is the first team OL (74,62 also in the video make me think this). I question why have 53 kick out to him? Why not just come straight back, therefore there is less room for the DE to cross his face. The DE does do a nice job of knocking 53 right hand off of him, but there is too much room, no need to kick out imo.
Cold hard facts ... standard Oline technique at Penn State
bwifan
Well-Known Member
Geez... It's 1 play... people IMHO are getting a little over reactive. What if for the next 20 plays Walker stuffed or pancaked YGM that we didn't see the video released. We don't know what context this play was being run. OLine working on a certain set or vice versa. We should be thankful that the Oline has players like YGM to practice against all spring and summer working out. Let's see what the product looks like next fall before jumping off the bridge.
53 is a red shirt freshman, this is how you learn and how you get coached up. Going against YGM in practice will make him better.
Kicking out sets the edge. At that point if the DE tries to continue on an outside rush he is highly unlikely to get to the QB, unless the QB is pressured up the middle and retreats in the pocket. You are also meeting the defender rather than sitting back and waiting to be unloaded upon.
Walker was however off balance and over extended on his kick out, and it was a really nice move by the DE. Walker will learn, and give inside move must always be defended first as it is the quickest path to the QB.
I'd rather see him get vertical and keep a smaller gap between him and the OG, and therefore there is not as much room for him to cross his face. We gave up a lot of sacks last year when the OT kicks out, and the DE crosses his face. The DE is a better athlete than the OT and you are asking the OT to cover too much ground. Here is LeCharles Bentley's thought on that matter, I know there is more than one way of doing this, but his way seems to make sense to me.
this should be set up to run, and then check it again at the 7:30 mark.
if any DE gets 1 sack a game, or 12 per year, he'll go in the first round. OTOH if the OT gives up 1 sack a game, or 12 per year, something would have to give. Either he should be on the bench for someone else or you dont have anyone else and end up 2-10.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
It all depends on the protection, and I can’t tell in the video where the QB is setting up. In Bentley’s example the tackle is protecting the backside of the QB and it is slide left protection. In his example it makes perfect sense to take a vertical drop and the QB is setting up left of the center and the tackle is protecting the backside. An inside move is really the only way a DE can get pressure here.
With Walker it appears he is protecting a front side pocket or a pocket directly behind the center. Is this case he is kicking at a 45 degree angle to set the pocket. In any event Walker is certainly doing what he is coached, and is using a technique deemed most suitable for the protection being run. He mostly just got beat due to having his weight on his outside foot and not being able to redirect. It was also a killer move.
Quite the reaction in this thread from 1 rep at the beginning of spring practice from a redshirt freshman OT going against an all-B1G candidate DE who should be a first round pick next year.
I agree he is doing what he is coached to do. I think in Bentley example he is protecting a QB on a straight QB drop, QB setting up behind the center (and this is where I think 14 is setting up, behind the center) . His point is simple, when the OT kicks out, he creates too much space for the OT to cover vs an inside move. People claim, you have to kick out in order to set the width of the pocket. His claim is, if you go straight back, you are as wide as you were when you started, so the pocket is wide enough.
I agree he got beat because his weight is on his outside foot. So the question is why was his weight on his outside foot? My answer is, because he kicked out and was off balance. Come straight back and he wont be off balance, and he wont get beat across his face. This happen alot to us last year.
But that's why Limegrover makes the big bucks, and I think the kids should do what they are coached to do.
If you kick out 3 feet, that is 3 addition feet that the DE must cover to get to the QB after engagement. Walker’s technique was poor, but I believe the protection concept is sound. I suppose a vertical drop is fine if you can’t kick set properly but I still don’t believe that is optimal. I have to watch the video again, but pretty sure Bentley is talking about using that technique in a slide protection specifically.
Not everyone kicks out. Super massive tackles like Tony Boscelli and Bryant McKinnie didn’t really kick step. But they have 8 foot long arms so it didn’t really matter. Most mere mortals playing tackle can benefit from perfecting the kick step technique.
The QB wasn't wearing a red shirt.Yes, because he should have crushed the QB on the first day of spring practice.
Also keep in mind that this is one of the hardest drills for an OL to do. The DE is pinning his ears back and doesn't have to worry about a Run, Draw, or Screen play.
So in this drill if an OL can even have a success rate of 50% they are doing well. In this case, the young OT is going against a very good DE, I'm sure that Walker is thinking OMG I've got to be quick to the outside, and then like an experienced DE, he counters that quick over set and being off balenced with an inside move.
Don't worry Walker will get better and figure it out. After a few dozen reps vs YGM, he will get much better.
So in this drill if an OL can even have a success rate of 50% they are doing well. In this case, the young OT is going against a very good DE, I'm sure that Walker is thinking OMG I've got to be quick to the outside, and then like an experienced DE, he counters that quick over set and being off balenced with an inside move.
Don't worry Walker will get better and figure it out. After a few dozen reps vs YGM, he will get much better.
we are going to disagree. If you kick out 3' there is 3' more a lesser athlete, the OT, has to cover vs a better athlete. With a vertical drop, you still kick, but back and not out, creating space. Watch the video, he isnt talking protections he is talking drop back pass fundamentals, he has the OG move to his left to block the #1.
I am going with LeCharles on this. Some of his other stuff, I am still not there yet, but I like this better than seeing our guys get beat, especially inside.
It’s all good man. This has to be the most minor of all disagreements.
It’s not too often I find someone willing and able to discuss the finer points of Oline play. Did you play or coach oline?
Things have changed a lot in the last 40 yrs but some things remain the same
Basically my 2 men are Jim McNally ( or as a “knowleable “ poster on this board called him a babbling fool lol) and Alex Gibbs
The one thing I am not convinced of yet, is turning the foot out at 45 degrees ( LeCharles has a YouTube on this). I think it torques the knee and that’s where all the injuries are coming from
Ok, figured as much.
As long as we are talking videos.
Stuff becomes very muddled in game action, but it makes perfect sense to kick at an angle when you have a DE lined up way outside. Those guys are coming fast. Being able to engage slightly sooner allows the DE to gain less momentum and makes the DE travel farther to the QB. Walker kicked too flat and just didn’t execute all that well, but that doesn’t mean he was using incorrect technique.
Well when that happens at Penn State ... I will be very happy. Let's pray to the holy father together.
Not the first Penn State LT to fall for an inside move ...
Oh god, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit watching that offensive line again.
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