Hackenberg/ Franklin
- Thread starter dcf4psu
- Start date
Let's not overlook this nice tweet from Carl Nassib. As much as we want to debate whether Hackenberg intentionally / rightfully left CFB off of his "thank you list", some of the finest players on the team like and respect Franklin. If there was a systemic dislike for Franklin, I would be concerned...and I don't think that's the case.
Carl Nassib @CarlNassib 20h20 hours ago
I want to thank @coachjfranklin for all that he has done for me. One of the most genuine and hard working men I've met. Love you coach
I want to thank @coachjfranklin for all that he has done for me. One of the most genuine and hard working men I've met. Love you coach
First one he thanked was former CEO.
Shortsighted on Hack's part. Scouts and head coaches will go to Franklin for a reference on him. Not smart to burn bridges.
He also could have addressed it on twitter today. Nothing.
It wasn't an official announcement or prepared statement where he would have had time to consider everyone he wanted to thank. I'm not even sure he intended to make the announcement during the post-game interview session. As I understand it, he was asked about his future a couple of times and dodged the questions before he decided to spill the beans. Under those circumstances, it's completely understandable that some people would be left out. I think it was an oversight. Way too much is being read into this in my opinion.
That Ferrari also had that ARob specialist turning "up for grabs" bombs into TD's and wins.
IF, (note, this is a big one. We should wait for the draft) Let's see when he goes, and where. This could have been a bat signal to his former coach. Was there a unspoken....quid pro quo...I can't shake this from my mind. I see absolutely no issue with this. See previous if, would esplain lots of things.
I've just all respect for Nassib. He's obviously not a team player. After Hackenberg intentionally left out Franklin (factual, obviously), Nassib should have fallen in line with his quarterback.
And, Nassib obviously hates Joe and O'Brien. That is an inescapable conclusion.
I've just all respect for Nassib. He's obviously not a team player. After Hackenberg intentionally left out Franklin (factual, obviously), Nassib should have fallen in line with his quarterback.
And, Nassib obviously hates Joe and O'Brien. That is an inescapable conclusion.
You may have missed it, but Nassib did give OB love for giving him a scholarship. It's crystal clear that Nassib only hates Joe. C'mon get your facts right!!!
I noticed while watching the game in the second half, Hackenberg was standing around and Franklin kind of walked over by him, and it seemed like Hack deliberately walked away from Franklin. He definitely seemed upset with Franklin.
Once again I will opine with my best impression of the PSU Oracle.
Christian Hackenberg is still a kid, a very smart, very confident, very talented, and highly thought of kid. No one can know what he was thinking so this is just my two cents; my observation of this kid over the last 4 years.
I'd start off by saying I met Christian with my son at the 2012 Ohio State/PSU game. He was there with some other recruits standing outside the tunnel below the upper decks near the concession stand. It was very late in the game and a lot of people had already cleared out. I noticed him right away and took a football over to get it signed. He was very accommodative, very humble, very young. I looked at my son and said out loud "this is the next Peyton Manning". Christian had a big smile, almost an Oh Golly Gee thing--like I said, a kid.
That being said and also making it very clear that he has done more than his fair share at PSU and will go down as one of the best pure passers we've had here; he, like all of us, is not perfect. Very few could have withstood the withering spotlight he has been under the past 3 years. He has done a more than admirable and far better than adequate job under those conditions. I also believe he is a natural leader.
That being said, this was an intentional slight. Several threads here have accurately listed the missteps and several have made good points on his strengths and the successes he's had under one coach vs. the other. My own belief is that Christian was bigger than life when Franklin first got here. He was bigger than the entire coaching staff and Franklin did a very smart thing by walking carefully around him--that is what a head coach is supposed to do. Donovan on the other hand had one sole responsibility when he got here and that was to make Christian buy-in, make him a believer in what they were trying to do--he never accomplished that.
As many good words Christian had for Donovan and Rahne, the reality is he failed them and mostly because he never truly bought in. If I were to guess the main reason for this slight, it would be that Hack doesn't like the fact Franklin fired John Donovan. But CJF had no choice and it was the right choice. That is the reality which will eventually have to be accepted because it is the truth.
This slight is the kind of move made by a kid, a mistake because it lacks maturity and perspective. Guys like Hack, OB and Franklin are very confident in themselves or they wouldn't be who they are; it is critical to their success. That ego sometimes clouds judgment and mistakes are made because after all, they are only human, so I wouldn't be too tough on him, still, this will go down as a mistake. Franklin did all he could and made the moves he had to make. When performance does not meet expectations there are no other options. A lesson Hack would be smart to learn, the only way he will be successful at the next level is to fully embrace that concept.
This is not meant to be mean spirited or chippy, but if I was a GM/coach at the combine I would ask one simple question. Do you feel responsible for John Donovan getting fired at PSU? And, Why didn't you mention your head coach in your farewell message? It's fair game, because everything is fair game in the real world. Sometimes its difficult to face the real truth of something so my advice would be to tell the absolute truth and move on. Everyone makes mistakes.
Christian Hackenberg is still a kid, a very smart, very confident, very talented, and highly thought of kid. No one can know what he was thinking so this is just my two cents; my observation of this kid over the last 4 years.
I'd start off by saying I met Christian with my son at the 2012 Ohio State/PSU game. He was there with some other recruits standing outside the tunnel below the upper decks near the concession stand. It was very late in the game and a lot of people had already cleared out. I noticed him right away and took a football over to get it signed. He was very accommodative, very humble, very young. I looked at my son and said out loud "this is the next Peyton Manning". Christian had a big smile, almost an Oh Golly Gee thing--like I said, a kid.
That being said and also making it very clear that he has done more than his fair share at PSU and will go down as one of the best pure passers we've had here; he, like all of us, is not perfect. Very few could have withstood the withering spotlight he has been under the past 3 years. He has done a more than admirable and far better than adequate job under those conditions. I also believe he is a natural leader.
That being said, this was an intentional slight. Several threads here have accurately listed the missteps and several have made good points on his strengths and the successes he's had under one coach vs. the other. My own belief is that Christian was bigger than life when Franklin first got here. He was bigger than the entire coaching staff and Franklin did a very smart thing by walking carefully around him--that is what a head coach is supposed to do. Donovan on the other hand had one sole responsibility when he got here and that was to make Christian buy-in, make him a believer in what they were trying to do--he never accomplished that.
As many good words Christian had for Donovan and Rahne, the reality is he failed them and mostly because he never truly bought in. If I were to guess the main reason for this slight, it would be that Hack doesn't like the fact Franklin fired John Donovan. But CJF had no choice and it was the right choice. That is the reality which will eventually have to be accepted because it is the truth.
This slight is the kind of move made by a kid, a mistake because it lacks maturity and perspective. Guys like Hack, OB and Franklin are very confident in themselves or they wouldn't be who they are; it is critical to their success. That ego sometimes clouds judgment and mistakes are made because after all, they are only human, so I wouldn't be too tough on him, still, this will go down as a mistake. Franklin did all he could and made the moves he had to make. When performance does not meet expectations there are no other options. A lesson Hack would be smart to learn, the only way he will be successful at the next level is to fully embrace that concept.
This is not meant to be mean spirited or chippy, but if I was a GM/coach at the combine I would ask one simple question. Do you feel responsible for John Donovan getting fired at PSU? And, Why didn't you mention your head coach in your farewell message? It's fair game, because everything is fair game in the real world. Sometimes its difficult to face the real truth of something so my advice would be to tell the absolute truth and move on. Everyone makes mistakes.
Last edited:
Using that logic, it also means that Hack wouldn't have come if Joe was still the coach or if Urban Meyer had take the job (as was in the works before the scandal)... Don't injure yourself stretching this too far.
Nice analysis. I am thinking that Franklin told Hack to go that he would not fit in to the new offensive scheme next year. I also think Geno Lewis is transferring. he doesn't seem too happy. I don't believe that in anyone's Life Path, that we are liked by everyone, or we like everyone we meet. This is just life. I heard that Donovan was let go because of the complexity of his system, especially the multitude of pass protections.
This is an interesting observation, and part of the reason that I'm relieved that Christian is pursuing his hopes for the NFL.
I think there is a huge change in how players were motivated from the O'Brien era to the Franklin Era. OB pretty much responded to the sanctions by telling them, in effect, that they, the current team, was going to keep Penn State football alive. Fans, in turn, were grateful that the team was playing hard and winning half their games. This made the players feel like they were part of something important. It's not surprising with that, along with OB's NFL ties and professionalism, to see how much these players appreciated O'Brien.
Franklin, OTOH, came in to do a rebuilding job. The excitement about him has been based on recruiting primarily. The unspoken message to the players, that "the guys I'm recruiting to replace you are going to bring PSU back to glory", was not as compelling to the older players. Also, a return to a college 'rah-rah' attitude after working for an NFL guy would seem to be a letdown to them. The one valid reason I can think of for Hack being unhappy with JF was that he kept promising linemen red shirted for the future instead when they were needed this year, showing that JF's priority was the future, not the present.
I also suspect that the younger players, Franklin's recruits, are excited - notice their positive reaction to McSorely's playing - and want the Franklin progam to advance. This is why I think it's important to see how the team plays in the next two years, when it's clearly Franklin's guys.
It certainly was complex--I believe Donovan was a very bright guy, just not a good offensive coordinator. Outside the schizophrenic play calling and game plans, he didn't bend his system to the talent around him. The most unforgiveable shortcoming though was that he couldn't build a unit with buy-in. They didn't play with an us vs.the world mentality--something the defense has had the day Shoop arrived. It's funny but I was watching the Texans game yesterday and the coaching staff was quoted as saying one of the main reasons for their success recently was they were able to adjust their system to the personnel on the team. Coincidence? Yeah maybe, or maybe BOB or somebody on the staff is still paying attention to what's going on around here.
Donovan was gone after Temple. To play that poorly after having an entire off-season understanding your job is on the line is, well......what it is. He didn't have the ability to dig deep and pull something special out of himself and his players. Something all successful coaches at some point in their careers must do.
Last edited:
I also think Hack made the right decision moving on and I hope he gets the right fit at the next level. I hope he is special at the next level. I'm pulling for the guy. I've said many times that he was leaving this year and I also said he will go in the first two rounds. I'm even leaning towards the end of the first round. The best fits IMO are where there are already great quarterbacks. The older the quarterback the better the fit. I think a 2 year window is what he needs or at least a very good running game. Optimum is New England and Dallas. Denver may be too big too soon and New York, Pittsburgh and Green Bay see him sitting for 4 years or more. St Louis is also an intriguing option at the middle end of the 1st as is Chicago.
I think it's a bogus argument to say Hack didn't fit Franklin's system. What does that even mean? That he can't escape the pocket when it collapses? That he can't throw accurately to his receivers? Is that a system or is that a requirement for ANY QB? Watching MSU and Connor Cook, who is by all accounts a Pro-style QB get out of his own way to throw an accurate ball when his linemen couldn't protect him is what Hack should have learned to do in his last two years without a decent line to help.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's a talented QB but as was pointed out, he didn't bother to buy in to the coaching of what MORE he needed to do with such a bad line. He needed to work on escaping the pocket and throwing short passes, etc. I didn't see a whole lot of improvement from him on that and that's on him. Also, how many times have you yelled either at the game or at your television "get rid of the damn ball". He's had some time to throw at times and still took the sack. That's not on Rahne, Donovan, or JF. I thought, at times, that Hack was just stubborn--every throw cannot be downfield. He seemed to blame others for his own shortcomings, not in the post-pressers, but his in-game reactions. He didn't rally the other players until he threw a TD, that's when he smiled on the sidelines, that's when he was talkative on the sideline. He didn't seem all-in unless he made the play himself. It amazed me how excited he became on the sideline after a TD and how sullen he was on the 3 and outs. Have you noticed the difference in energy from the offense and defense. That comes from the leaders on each side. Johnson, Zettel, Nassib, even Kline getting the defense riled up on the sidelines.
Don't get me wrong, I think he's a talented QB but as was pointed out, he didn't bother to buy in to the coaching of what MORE he needed to do with such a bad line. He needed to work on escaping the pocket and throwing short passes, etc. I didn't see a whole lot of improvement from him on that and that's on him. Also, how many times have you yelled either at the game or at your television "get rid of the damn ball". He's had some time to throw at times and still took the sack. That's not on Rahne, Donovan, or JF. I thought, at times, that Hack was just stubborn--every throw cannot be downfield. He seemed to blame others for his own shortcomings, not in the post-pressers, but his in-game reactions. He didn't rally the other players until he threw a TD, that's when he smiled on the sidelines, that's when he was talkative on the sideline. He didn't seem all-in unless he made the play himself. It amazed me how excited he became on the sideline after a TD and how sullen he was on the 3 and outs. Have you noticed the difference in energy from the offense and defense. That comes from the leaders on each side. Johnson, Zettel, Nassib, even Kline getting the defense riled up on the sidelines.
Again, I like Hack and want him to succeed at the next level. I even wanted him to come back and give it another go, but there are things that he will need to grasp to succeed at the next level and they are things that he could've actually succeeded in the past two years but for whatever reason didn't.
Who cares whether Hackenberg has some issue(s) with Franklin? Franklin admitted recently that his relationship with Hack had improved over the prior year, so there obviously was some dissonance in the background. No doubt Hack was appalled when O'Brien headed to Houston. The bottom line is that Hack stayed loyal to Penn State and Franklin stayed loyal to Hackenberg, when it would have been easy for CJF to give McSorley more playing time. Coaches and players have love-hate relationships, which sometimes oscillate daily. Lots of players left Penn State thinking Joe Paterno was a jerk, only to arrive at an opposite opinion years later. JoePa never fretted over whether his players loved him.
Hackenberg professes to love Penn State and I think he'll be a loyal alumnus regardless of his feelings for Franklin. Hack's issues with CJF, if they exist, have little to no bearing on the future of Penn State Football. Hack is a class act, I wish him much success, I'm excited to see what McSorley or Stevens can do.
Hackenberg professes to love Penn State and I think he'll be a loyal alumnus regardless of his feelings for Franklin. Hack's issues with CJF, if they exist, have little to no bearing on the future of Penn State Football. Hack is a class act, I wish him much success, I'm excited to see what McSorley or Stevens can do.
Last edited:
No big deal in my book. Hack dissed JF. Whatever. McSorley outplayed Hack. I think JF told Hack it was time to move on.
When McSorley, Zembiac, Clifford and Jurkovic graduate they will thank JF.
So far Obrien has drafted ZERO PSU players. ZERO.
How many QBs has Obrien brought along in Houston so far? Is he up to 7 or 8?
One by choice ant rest out of desperation. 2-14 to winning the division in 2 years with no QB. No too bad.
And he finished 9th out of 12 QBs that year. His HS numbers were not even that impressive. McSorley put up better numbers in high school.
Hack is not a Ferrari. He has the measurables and a big arm but not the fundamentals.
When it's said that Hack doesn't fit Franklin's system, I think it means that Franklin wants to run a "zone read" system and that is not a good fit for Hack.
A month ago the fans were ready to fire him. He was even working on an exit strategy and leaking stories that he wanted the UMD job. Right now he is on par with Jay Gruden. When he actually wins a playoff game he will be on par with Rich Kotite.
How many Qbs is the QB whisperer up to? Is it 7 or 8? Hack better hope he does not go to Houston.
LOL, beep, beep, beep!!!! Right as franchise QB's are a dime a dozen. Great job by him this year. Suck it!!!
Well I think it's about time to move on. I wish Hack well. I think there is always some tension between players and coaches. Going forward it is important that Franklin and the current players mesh well. Again, there will be some players who love him and some who will hate him. The question is will they preform for him. I believe they will until shown otherwise.
What system fits a team with a patchwork OL that does not give the QB a lot of time, a statue of a QB, a QB that does not throw accurate short passes, and inexperienced WRs with too many drops?
No. There are not too many of them. That is why teams win without franchise QBs all the time. You can win with defense and special teams.
BOB is overrated. He acts like he invented the position when the fact is Brady was the league MVP before Bob ever got his first NFL job.
Any chance JF asked Hack to move on?
What would you all do if Hack came back next year and McSorley was a better fit ?
Donovan's offense is based on a zone/read play with options off of that. Hack made that zone-read a million times and never once kept the ball. They did put some kind of 'stacked' play off of it throwing to the TE in the seam (which was dropped as many times as caught, and one time horribly over thrown). Plus, after Barkley emerged, we almost never complimented off of him using play action. I can recall, coming out in the second half, PSU lining up in an empty backfield and tOSU immediatly dropping into a pass coverage set on a defensive call made by the MLB.
lets not forget, CJF fired the OC at his first possible opportunity. if he blamed Hack, that OC would still be here.
Sorry, poor choice of words on my part! Nothing other than the literal meaning of the phrase was intended!!
No he does not. Your panties hurt because he left and called out this idiots who couldn't leave him alone. 9-7 after a 2-5 start two years removed from a 2 win season. It's ok to say he did a good job.
Last edited:
Not to get in the middle of a good fight but I think each of you are about half right.
BOB has shown he has the chops to coach, I don't think that can be disputed. He was Bill Belichick's OC and that is all you need to know. Bellichick knows a few things about football. He had a hell of a game against Wisconsin when the chips were down and he had a hell of a season this year when his job was on the line. All of that shows coaching chops and more importantly guts.
Player evaluation is a different animal altogether and I think Billy is smart enough to know that even the smartest scouts miss on occasion as do the smartest GMs. Coaching is easier, the GMs and Scouts can only be good at one thing--a coach can excel in any number of areas to help them keep their job. O'Brien understood how difficult being a college coach can be. I'm guessing its another reason he went directly back to the pros.
And all you guys who are suddenly so high on Bill Boy--look at the two recruiting classes he had and tell me how many misses and how many hits he had on those lists--outside of Hack and Austin Johnson the rest are immaterial. Yeah, we all know, sanctions, but in challenging environments you have to find gems and I don't see many there. BOB's talent evaluation is suspect--last season and this season are BOBs players, especially on the O-Line. As a total coach no way I'm taking BOB over CJF. BOB is a pro coach, the experience between the two are miles apart.
He had a top 10 class up until they announced the sanctions and then people bailed. Fuller, Miller, Douglas, and Webb were just a few that decommited. Switzerland at UNC got steered away. He was lucky Hack and AB stuck around to be honest. AJ was not recruited by him. He was a LJ camp offer IIRC.
Recruiting, landing recruits, and evaluating are two different animals. I'm not putting him in the HOF, but he is a decent coach.
