Hackenberg/ Franklin

[Obliviax]

Not to get in the middle of a good fight but I think each of you are about half right.

BOB has shown he has the chops to coach, I don't think that can be disputed. He was Bill Belichick's OC and that is all you need to know. Bellichick knows a few things about football. He had a hell of a game against Wisconsin when the chips were down and he had a hell of a season this year when his job was on the line. All of that shows coaching chops and more importantly guts.

Player evaluation is a different animal altogether and I think Billy is smart enough to know that even the smartest scouts miss on occasion as do the smartest GMs. Coaching is easier, the GMs and Scouts can only be good at one thing--a coach can excel in any number of areas to help them keep their job. O'Brien understood how difficult being a college coach can be. I'm guessing its another reason he went directly back to the pros.

And all you guys who are suddenly so high on Bill Boy--look at the two recruiting classes he had and tell me how many misses and how many hits he had on those lists--outside of Hack and Austin Johnson the rest are immaterial. Yeah, we all know, sanctions, but in challenging environments you have to find gems and I don't see many there. BOB's talent evaluation is suspect--last season and this season are BOBs players, especially on the O-Line. As a total coach no way I'm taking BOB over CJF. BOB is a pro coach, the experience between the two are miles apart.

Agreed with all of your posts until this one. Football, and football recruiting, is a competitive game. When their are more weights against you, you don't get to get the kids you wanted. BOB was recruiting kids that knew the NCAA hated us, the press hated us, that they'd have to workout in "that" shower. There was no guarantee the fans would support the program. Probably no bowl, little TV, half full stands......

BOB used what he had and managed around what he didn't have. He's strung together several good years at New England, PSU and Houston...anyone who's suggesting he's not a good coach is fooling themselves. How good, is now the question.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Donovan's offense - love it or hate it - gave the QB a lot of flexibility with respect to audible/option calls at the LOS.

If you go back and watch the post-game pressers, nearly every time the offense ran an audible/option that appropriately took advantage of the game situation and the defensive set....CJF was positively effusive in his praise of Hackenberg.

He didn't have all that many occasions to be effusive.
It takes two to tango....or whatever cliché one wants to use.

It is what it is.

Four years of battered rosters are in the books - and PSU has had winning seasons in all four.
Coaches and players - including BO'B, CJF, and Hackenberg - all deserve a lot of credit for that. Hackenberg moving on is probably a good decision for all involved - but, in any event, it is his decision to make, and he made it....and we all wish him well.

In any event, 2016 is a new year, and - in many ways - I believe will be the year to "rip off the Band-Aid" and get down to business.
A new OC - who I think will be a nice addition - a new QB, and (hopefully) a somewhat improved OL with at least a bit of "young blood" mixed in should make for a very interesting spring and summer leading up to next September.

 

[Obliviax]

Donovan's offense - love it or hate it - gave the QB a lot of flexibility with respect to audible/option calls at the LOS.

If you go back and watch the post-game pressers, nearly every time the offense ran an audible/option that appropriately took advantage of the game situation and the defensive set....CJF was positively effusive in his praise of Hackenberg.

He didn't have all that many occasions to be effusive.
It takes two to tango....or whatever cliché one wants to use.

It is what it is.

Four years of battered rosters are in the books - and PSU has had winning seasons in all four.
Coaches and players - including BO'B, CJF, and Hackenberg - all deserve a lot of credit for that. Hackenberg moving on is probably a good decision for all involved - but, in any event, it is his decision to make, and he made it....and we all wish him well.

In any event, 2016 is a new year, and - in many ways - I believe will be the year to "rip off the Band-Aid" and get down to business.
A new OC - who I think will be a nice addition - a new QB, and (hopefully) a somewhat improved OL with at least a bit of "young blood" mixed in should make for a very interesting spring and summer leading up to next September.

Totally agree with this post....but you also have to understand that CJF fired Donovan at his first possible moment after the season was over. This is a guy that has been with CJF as his OC for five years. Something happened. Did CJF come to the conclusion that JD couldn't coach at this level? Was there a blow up? Hard to imagine Donovan would have undermined CJF given his stability as head coach here.

 

[StinkStankStunk]

Totally agree with this post....but you also have to understand that CJF fired Donovan at his first possible moment after the season was over. This is a guy that has been with CJF as his OC for five years. Something happened. Did CJF come to the conclusion that JD couldn't coach at this level? Was there a blow up? Hard to imagine Donovan would have undermined CJF given his stability as head coach here.

Oh...I don't think - certainly don't propose - that Donovan undermined CJF at all. Sorry if you got that impression.

Even though I think Donovan got too much of the "heat"....I am perfectly fine with Morehead....and my GUESS (given that I don't live inside the man's head) is that it is more or less as simple as this - CJF really likes Morehead's system, and felt it would be a positive move.
I guess by default that would mean that CJF was less than 100% in love with Donovan's work.....but I EXPECT it was more that he saw the opportunity for an upgrade, and took it.

The move surprised me a bit....I thought CJF would keep Donovan on staff for at least another year (and I won't be surprised if Donovan does find some success elsewhere), but as a pure "swap" of offensive coordinators, I am hopeful that Morehead will bring more (no pun intended) to the table.

 

[marisa45]

Agreed with all of your posts until this one. Football, and football recruiting, is a competitive game. When their are more weights against you, you don't get to get the kids you wanted. BOB was recruiting kids that knew the NCAA hated us, the press hated us, that they'd have to workout in "that" shower. There was no guarantee the fans would support the program. Probably no bowl, little TV, half full stands......

BOB used what he had and managed around what he didn't have. He's strung together several good years at New England, PSU and Houston...anyone who's suggesting he's not a good coach is fooling themselves. How good, is now the question.

Well nobody is always right.

My point though was he didn't get much with the lower level kids. We've seen quite of those succeed here but those two years don't look that great in retrospect.

 

[zwick99]

Cam Newton or Tim Tebow.

They are both mobile.

Not to get in the middle of a good fight but I think each of you are about half right.

BOB has shown he has the chops to coach, I don't think that can be disputed. He was Bill Belichick's OC and that is all you need to know. Bellichick knows a few things about football. He had a hell of a game against Wisconsin when the chips were down and he had a hell of a season this year when his job was on the line. All of that shows coaching chops and more importantly guts.

Player evaluation is a different animal altogether and I think Billy is smart enough to know that even the smartest scouts miss on occasion as do the smartest GMs. Coaching is easier, the GMs and Scouts can only be good at one thing--a coach can excel in any number of areas to help them keep their job. O'Brien understood how difficult being a college coach can be. I'm guessing its another reason he went directly back to the pros.

And all you guys who are suddenly so high on Bill Boy--look at the two recruiting classes he had and tell me how many misses and how many hits he had on those lists--outside of Hack and Austin Johnson the rest are immaterial. Yeah, we all know, sanctions, but in challenging environments you have to find gems and I don't see many there. BOB's talent evaluation is suspect--last season and this season are BOBs players, especially on the O-Line. As a total coach no way I'm taking BOB over CJF. BOB is a pro coach, the experience between the two are miles apart.

Bob was overrated. He was on the way out at NE. NE won before and AFTER Bob was there.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Well nobody is always right.

My point though was he didn't get much with the lower level kids. We've seen quite of those succeed here but those two years don't look that great in retrospect.

MM was a walk on and he turned out pretty good. I believe he gave most of his credit to BOB. I hear what you are saying and you have some valid points. A few can't admit the man can coach and will stay in that corner no matter what. It's fun to watch.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

You know.

Be did not mention Ricky Rahne his position coach... What a slap in the throwing arm.......
Is this the As the world turns board or the Guiding Light board?

 

[cvilleelkscoach]

Donovan's offense is based on a zone/read play with options off of that. Hack made that zone-read a million times and never once kept the ball. They did put some kind of 'stacked' play off of it throwing to the TE in the seam (which was dropped as many times as caught, and one time horribly over thrown). Plus, after Barkley emerged, we almost never complimented off of him using play action. I can recall, coming out in the second half, PSU lining up in an empty backfield and tOSU immediatly dropping into a pass coverage set on a defensive call made by the MLB.

lets not forget, CJF fired the OC at his first possible opportunity. if he blamed Hack, that OC would still be here.

This is BS. Donovan's system was not a zone read system. PSU abandoned zone blocking when Franklin got here. The blocking schemes under Donovan/Hand are NOT zone blocking. Maybe you want to call it a read option. The word zone in zone read refers to the blocking. But again, this system was not a read option offense. This system failed for two reasons, the complexity of the blocking schemes and communication and the geometry of the route packages.

What we will see with the new offense will be some zone read as JoeMo is going to install zone blocking. This will create cut back lanes which enables the jump cut by the back to the alleys created by the zone blocking. In my offense, I call that touchdown alley. From the passing game, we will see much better geometry of the route packages creating both separation and coverage pressures.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

This is BS. Donovan's system was not a zone read system. PSU abandoned zone blocking when Franklin got here. The blocking schemes under Donovan/Hand are NOT zone blocking. Maybe you want to call it a read option. The word zone in zone read refers to the blocking. But again, this system was not a read option offense. This system failed for two reasons, the complexity of the blocking schemes and communication and the geometry of the route packages.

What we will see with the new offense will be some zone read as JoeMo is going to install zone blocking. This will create cut back lanes which enables the jump cut by the back to the alleys created by the zone blocking. In my offense, I call that touchdown alley. From the passing game, we will see much better geometry of the route packages creating both separation and coverage pressures.

Didn't Hall put in zone blocking when he arrived like 12 years ago?

 

[Eurotrash1]

Why is everything a federal crime on this board to say there are situations that aren't always perfect. I agree with th OP and to be honest...it's kind of a natural thing when you look at it. I've never worked anywhere that everything was perfect and everyone got along 100% of the time. Penn State football is as human as the rest of the world. Regardless it is no big deal since Hack and Franklin have parted ways.

 

[Obliviax]

This is BS. Donovan's system was not a zone read system. PSU abandoned zone blocking when Franklin got here. The blocking schemes under Donovan/Hand are NOT zone blocking. Maybe you want to call it a read option. The word zone in zone read refers to the blocking. But again, this system was not a read option offense. This system failed for two reasons, the complexity of the blocking schemes and communication and the geometry of the route packages.

What we will see with the new offense will be some zone read as JoeMo is going to install zone blocking. This will create cut back lanes which enables the jump cut by the back to the alleys created by the zone blocking. In my offense, I call that touchdown alley. From the passing game, we will see much better geometry of the route packages creating both separation and coverage pressures.

Yeah...terminology issue.....in your words, read/option. I was not referring to the blocking scheme. But I disagree....having a "read/option" in the playbook was foolish with Hackenberg. The idea of the read/option is that the QB puts the ball in the QB's belly and waits for the defense to commit. Then the QB does the other, either keeping it or handing it off. In all of the read/options, Hack NOT ONCE carried the ball. So why would the defense commit to stopping the Hack run? It was not a read option, it was a slow handoff. It allowed the defense to react to the play and simply flow to the RB.