That would be divine justice if you ask me and with Delaney's two beloved cash cows out of the playoffs, the push for an eight-team playoff would begin in earnest.
Heard another CFB analyst say today that if PSU and OSU both win out,
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That would be divine justice if you ask me and with Delaney's two beloved cash cows out of the playoffs, the push for an eight-team playoff would begin in earnest.
How precisely is taking daO$U over the B1G East Division Champion (the B1G Division daO$U is in), the B1G Champion (the conference daO$U is in) and finally the team that beat daO$U ON THE FIELD OF PLAY in B1G play to win these Championships a "playoff scenario" -- it is the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE of a "playoff scenario" and completely obliterating the RELEVANCE of the B1G Conference Play!
What I was referring to is we cannot erase 2 losses. If both win out, OSU has lost one contest. In addition, their margin of victory has been substantially better. I hope we both get in, but if we both win out and only one is chosen, I believe it will be OSU.
The rankers may do that, but they would be departing from their guidelines to do so.
Maybe so, but the committee doesn't consider margin-of-victory.
If OSU and PSU win out:
SOS (with a win over Whisky): Push
Conf Champs (from the toughest division in football): PSU
Head-to-head: PSU
Record: OSU
It's not so clear cut. The committee 2 years ago gave OSU the benefit of the doubt for winning the Big10 over two other similarly qualified teams. So, the question is, does the value of a head-to-head game trump one more loss to the committee (debatable but I'd say yes), and does a conference championship mean more than not having one (absolutely yes).
I see no scenario where, if we both win out, they get in and we don't. It's not going to happen. Both of us can absolutely go, or just us, but not just them. Zero justification for it practically or historically.
Nothing would devalue the relevance of the B1G Season more than daO$U going over the B1G East Division Champion (daO$U's B1G Division), the B1G Champion (daO$U's Conference) and the team who beat daO$U head-to-head during the B1G Season to record those Championships. It would make daO$U's selection completely "subjective" and DIRECTLY OPPOSED to the way REAL PLAYOFFS work (which are not seeded via extremely limited, completely subjective "invitational tournament" beauty pageants) - REAL PLAYOFF BRACKETS are populated by Division and Conference winners.....this was the whole justification for the "divisionalization" of the P5 Conferences and the creation of the Conference Championship Games - they were to act in concert with the "Selection Committee" criteria thereby effectively adding a "first round" to the CFB Playoff and why there was talk about even requiring a Conference Championship to be selected!
Many things can happen between now and the final determination. We are first of all assuming that OSU and PSU win out. Clearly OSU has a formidable opponent in UM. PSU is having trouble finding an OL that won't get TM or SB killed. Alabama could lose to Auburn and on and on and on. Where I am curious is, if OSU continues to win how does PSU jump them in the standings? Wins over Rutgers and MSU certainly don't pad our resume. A win over Wisky would only duplicate what OSU did @ Wisky. OSU's potential win vs. UM only underlines something PSU did not accomplish.
Gee, the Selection committee has already repeatedly stated that they give additional credit for WINNING YOUR CONFERENCE (as was done in 2014 when TCU was dropped 3 spots and daO$U was raised 4), but that credit cannot be given until the Final Ranking when the Conference Championship is actually won.
OSU jumped TCU in 2014, but they were very close, 2 spots apart and had same losses - 1. OSU and PSU are 6 spots apart and presumably the head to head victory by PSU has been taken into account to demonstrate relative strength in contrast to the different number of losses and OSU is still given a large lead in the rankings.
WE. BEAT. THEM.
Of course "alot can happen". This is only a debate if both teams win out. If Michigan wins we go to the Rose or Orange bowl.
Conference Champs
Head-to-Head
Overall record (wins/losses, sos, etc).
So PSU can be 7 or 8 and OSU 2. OSU beats UM the #3 and PSU leaps over OSU the next Tuesday? I'll wait for Santa Claus.
In 2014, OSU was #5 and TCU #3 the week before the final. TCU dropped 3 spots and OSU moved up 1.
Who said we have to leap them? We have the best win in all of college football this year, and will have then beaten Wisconsin. Two top 5 wins and a conference championship from the toughest division in college football and you think the committee will give a crap about a week 2 meaningless loss?
To summarize, If PSU wins out and OSU wins out....and only one is chosen, I believe it will be OSU. I hope it would be both. Also, I hope I'm proven wrong. In the meantime, I am concerned that we won't win out with this OL injury problem.
You seem to forget that OSU will have beaten, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Michigan and Wisconsin.
Uh......just as a reminder......the ENTIRE "history" of this system dates back..........2 YEARS!
During that extensive history (
).....no team with more losses than their conference cohort, has EVER!! -) ) gone to the "playoffs", ahead of that "fewer losses" team.So, yes, there would be zero justification, practically of historically, for PSU going ahead of OSU.
Just sayin'.......point being that all this consternation is just silly and meaningless and circular at this point.
If, at the end of the day, a reasonable argument can be made that the four selected teams are the four "best".......that is the best that can come out of this crappy system.
When and if there is an 8 team format (for example), where every P5 Champ is in (and the remainder are selected via some "committee" or formula)......then you will have a system where every program has a legit shot and "controls their own destiny".
Until then, the whole thing is an entertaining charade........(note: that doesn't mean we can't enjoy watching it unfold)
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And we will have beaten them and won the Big 10 title. Good grief man, are you always this negative?
Uh......just as a reminder......the ENTIRE "history" of this system dates back..........2 YEARS!
During that extensive history (
So, yes, there would be zero justification, practically of historically, for PSU going ahead of OSU.
Just sayin'.......point being that all this consternation is just silly and meaningless and circular at this point.
If, at the end of the day, a reasonable argument can be made that the four selected teams are the four "best".......that is the best that can come out of this crappy system.
When and if there is an 8 team format (for example), where every P5 Champ is in (and the remainder are selected via some "committee" or formula)......then you will have a system where every program has a legit shot and "controls their own destiny".
Until then, the whole thing is an entertaining charade........(note: that doesn't mean we can't enjoy watching it unfold)
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Uh.....and no conference champ from the Big10 hasn't gone. And how does the committee weigh wins and losses vs head to head and conference championships?
I know how old the system is. That's what I was referencing.
Look we are all PSU fans here. If PSU is healthy and can compete, I would love to see them in the playoff. Winning a Big Ten Championship by a tie breaker, won't influence the committee in my opinion. They don't take champs from some conferences period. If they value the conference championships only then why not take the ACC, Big 10, etc. and just rotate....after all they are all conference champs?
It's not a tie breaker, it's a championship game. We will have more than earned it.
You cite the case against PSU, I cite the case for PSU.
Exactly!
Point being- is what it is.....and until there is an actual "championship playoff" system in place (where EVERY team has a clear, definitive route to a "Title") everyone can play "circle-jerk" wrt this or that or the other parameter - depending on where "their team" slots in - and one is no better than the other.
[When and if - and it is probably more "when" than "if" - the field is expanded to 8, with every conference champion guaranteed a seat at the table - then (and only then) we will have something that can be realistically called a "championship playoff"]
Me, or you, or any other reasonably intelligent observer could make a case for any number of different rankings of the teams.....but within this system - which is most certainly not a "championship playoff" - and which most certainly doesn't have any defined parameters of evaluation - it just doesn't matter.
For me, personally (and probably for most folks), it is entertaining....and that is all it is.
I'm not negative. I'm thrilled that PSU is in the position that we can discuss this. It's just that I abhor self deception.
Under the original hypothetical, I think both PSU and OSU would be in the playoff, and I think both would be deserving.
You couldn't argue putting PSU in over OSU because PSU 1) would have beat them head to head, 2) have the same 11 wins (yes 1 more loss), 3) won the division and the B1G.
It would also be tough to argue against OSU being deserving considering they 1) would have 11 wins, 2) only loss by 3 to a top 4 team, 3) have 4 high quality wins over OU, NU, Wisconsin, UM.
There is obviously much that will happen before anything is decided, but it sure is fun to be in a position to have these types of discussions.
You couldn't argue putting PSU in over OSU because PSU 1) would have beat them head to head, 2) have the same 11 wins (yes 1 more loss), 3) won the division and the B1G.
It would also be tough to argue against OSU being deserving considering they 1) would have 11 wins, 2) only loss by 3 to a top 4 team, 3) have 4 high quality wins over OU, NU, Wisconsin, UM.
There is obviously much that will happen before anything is decided, but it sure is fun to be in a position to have these types of discussions.
If PSU represents the east in the BTCG it will be because OSU and PSU had identical records and PSU won the head to head. That is a tie breaker. Other wise we would be co champs.
And if we win the division and lose the CCG it won't matter to the CFP will it. Point is you cite that like it's some knock against us that the east is a tie-breaker. It isn't.
Standings currently sit at
Bama
OSU
Michigan
Clemson
Louisville
Washington
Wisconsin
Penn State
I believe Louisville is irrelevant unless Clemson loses again somewhere..However Louisville loses this week to Houston...Wisky and PSU jump to #6 and #7 respectively.
Washington loses to Washingto State in two weeks and Wisky and PSU jump to #5 and #6 respectively
OSU beats Michigan and Wisky and PSU jump to #4 and #5 and meet in the BIG Championship.
If PSU wins that game how can anyone keep them out of the Playoff while beating the #2 team in the country and the #4 team in the country while having possibly played OSU 11-2, Mich 10-2, Minn 8-4, Iowa 8-4, Pitt 8-4, Temple 10-3, Indiana 6-6, and Md 6-6...compare that to any other non-BIG team
Bama
OSU
Michigan
Clemson
Louisville
Washington
Wisconsin
Penn State
I believe Louisville is irrelevant unless Clemson loses again somewhere..However Louisville loses this week to Houston...Wisky and PSU jump to #6 and #7 respectively.
Washington loses to Washingto State in two weeks and Wisky and PSU jump to #5 and #6 respectively
OSU beats Michigan and Wisky and PSU jump to #4 and #5 and meet in the BIG Championship.
If PSU wins that game how can anyone keep them out of the Playoff while beating the #2 team in the country and the #4 team in the country while having possibly played OSU 11-2, Mich 10-2, Minn 8-4, Iowa 8-4, Pitt 8-4, Temple 10-3, Indiana 6-6, and Md 6-6...compare that to any other non-BIG team
Use facts to support your argument. A tie-breaker for the east isn't a remotely meaningful issue. Has that come up even amongst the talking heads decrying our ranking? Of course not.
Assuming that both teams win out, they have identical conference records. PSU will represent the east by virtue of a head to head win. That is called a tie breaker. I believe that IS A FACT. You saying it isn't a remotely meaningful issue does not make that a fact. Unless you are God.
Well, pick the 4 best teams and draw the game pairings out of a hat. No bias there then.
You said, "winning the Big 10 championship by tie-breaker, won't influence the committee"...
It isn't possible to WIN the Big 10 CHAMPIONSHIP by tie-breaker. Which I pointed out to you. What you are basing your conclusion on in this instance is NOT POSSIBLE.
So you then say, well we would win the DIVISION by tie-breaker. Ok fine. Sure. But that has NO BEARING on the CFP because the WON'T CARE if we win the division if we LOSE THE CONFERENCE CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.
Good lord god.
PSU can only win the Big Ten if a tie breaker is employed. Otherwise, assuming both teams win out, OSU and PSU would have to settle it on the field.....which isn't feasible.
Assuming the committee will give PSU consideration over OSU is based on PSU winning a title they contested for as a result of a TIEBREAKER with OSU.
OSU and PSU DID settle it on the field.
We can GO TO the big10 title because of a tie-breaker we own with the #2 effing team in the country. We can't WIN the championship because of it. OSU GOT to the CFP 2 years ago due to a series of tie-breaking considerations, right? So do they hoist the natty banner with an asterisk?
Where in the Selection Committee Protocal does it mention divisional tie-breakers? Where does it mention Conference Championships?
You are correct. It does not mention any of those. So therefore how does a Big Ten Championship guarantee PSU a spot in the playoffs over OSU?
I never said it did. I said "I see no scenario where, if we both win out, they get in and we don't." You're hardly convincing me otherwise.
