I doubt they care about a monetary fine.
Post-season ban (multi-year) as well as show cause for anyone on that coaching staff seems fair.
Heard on Sports radio in Dayton area today (re: Michigan)
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Post-season ban (multi-year) as well as show cause for anyone on that coaching staff seems fair.
This is football not the legal system.
When there is a penalty in the first quarter they don't conduct an investigation and then throw a flag after the season.
As much as I would have liked Michigan to get crushed during the season, that's not the way NCAA investigations work. They are (unfortunately) very slow. And they do have to follow their own rules. So in that respect this sort of thing IS more like the legal system than it is football.
If you really want to do apply your "throw a flag" analogy it's the difference between a dead ball penalty (play stops immediately) and a live ball penality (play continues, refs confer after the play to assess penalty).
"They need to be punished"...this is an example of the comments I don't understand. Why?
I mean, they won their title. We can all diminish the validity of the title if we want but why do we care if they're punished and, more specifically, why do they need to be?
If the behavior stops then let's move on
i think we're splitting hairs, the cfp invite is not considered a "bowl invite", it's an invite to an invitational tourney for lack of a better phrase..lots of gray area imo..
I mean that's semantics.
But the idea that "the NCAA can't prevent a team from playing in the CFP" is silly because all you have to do is look at bowl bans (also not controlled by NCAA and long history of bowl bans).
i specifically didn't say UM would sue, i specifically said third parties..any third party who would possibly lose money as a direct result of UM being "banned" could argue that they have legal standing to sue
other than teams self banning, there hasn't been an ncaa imposed "bowl ban" during the existence of the cfp...this is new territory..not a lawyer, but i've been party to several lawsuits, it's amazing what a motivated litigator can do
NCAA as a voluntary organization means it is very, very different than many lawsuits (e.g. a lawsuit against an employer, a private citizen or against the government).
I'm not sure this is correct. I believe at least one of the Ole Miss bowl ban years was not self imposed (i.e. they self imposted 2017, but NCAA imposed 2018, which Ole Miss appealed and lost)
NCAA hits Ole Miss, Freeze with penalties
The NCAA came down hard on the Ole Miss football program for lack of institutional control, penalizing the Rebels with a second bowl ban and additional scholarship restrictions.
Similarly, the 2019 Mizzou bowl ban was not self imposed. Again, they appealed and lost.
Missouri's 2019 bowl ban upheld after appeal
Missouri's bowl ban for this season has been upheld by an NCAA appeals committee, the school announced Tuesday. The Tigers, at 5-6 overall, could have qualified for a bowl game by beating Arkansas on Friday.
You're utterly wrong - scUM is a member of the NCAA and has granted legal rights to the NCAA to govern their Athletic Competitions. If the NCAA bans them from post-season play, they cannot play. The NCAA can ban them from all play (a la SMU) if they want - complete nonsense that the NCAA cannot ban scUM from post-season play including the CFP.
The NCAA has zero power unless it's given to them. Does anyone truly believe the Big Ten would allow them to ban any major program from a bowl bid? Remember what happened to us is irrelevant. We killed the NCAA. I feel like people want this because of what happened to us instead of saying the NCAA was wrong then and we're glad it's essentially dead.
"Everybody does it" is a lame, cowardly and zero-integrity rationalization made by fans of a "rudderless ship", justify-anthing, zero-integrity Institution.
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You aren't completely correct here - the NCAA does not have to prolong an investigation if they already have sufficient evidence to act. They said as much to scUM's President (the President/Chacellor is the NCAA representative at all NCAA Schools) when they suspended Harbaugh from coaching last year. IOW, their letter to scUM said that they had documented, and irrefutable, proof that scUM cheated in regards to "Illegal Scouting of future opponents" - information sufficient to uphold any action they took against scUM including in a court of law. You don't remember that letter the NCAA sent to scUM when their disgraceful President threatened the NCAA?
all teams have a stallions, they are literally called the sign stealer guy..it's well known that osu's sign stealer shared his "data" with both illinois and rutgers in an attempt to help them against UM...whatever happens to UM happens, but let's not lose sight of the fact that everybody is doing it to one degree or another..there have been articles written about $ec coaches being against helmet comms because they didn't wanna give up whatever perceived advantage sign stealing gave them...maybe a reporter should ask franklin if psu has a sign stealer?..
Are all other teams buying tickets to opposing teams games weekly, recording the future opponents sidelines to create a database weekly of every sign?
Because if you read that, you should share the link with the NCAA. And here as well. I'd like to read it.
That's the difference. The level it went to.
I don't even care if Michigan is punished at all (doesn't alter anything and I'd rather beat them without them having an excuse) but it's insincere to try to claim everyone does what they did.
If anything, I would predict some copycats will come of it until a punishment is rendered. It's actually not a bad idea. It's just of poor taste and sportsmanship.
CFB isn't war...yet. lol
Two Summers ago there was a gang fight between some rivals in our town park. The resulting beating that one young man took nearly killed him.
Half of their high school careers have occurred while the cases are just hitting the courts now....
So yeah- everybody knew what happened (UM equivalent = dude spelling beans on payments to tape SIDELINES-NOT plays), many have seen the eye witness phone videos (think Staloins @ EMU), and the two sides have stated their "innocence" b because they had not yet been found "guilty."
The snails pace didn't help anyone here and won't with UM. As time goes by the revisionist history of their "earned on the field" championship will stand the test of time if they aren't held accountable.
Harbaugh bolting (Charger pun intended) only further legitimizes his complicity....
No different than Jimmy Johnson except UM holds itself in higher esteem.
Holding them accountable will have zero impact on that. They did earn it on the field regardless of what you think about anything else. We all saw it.
I thought the big ten suspended Harbaugh for the sign stealing things. Not the NCAA as you are suggesting.
It is legal to attempt to interpret, and "steal", opponent signs in game; it is also legal to assign a coach to this activity. This is not what Stallions and scUM were busted for - scUM, Harbaugh and Stallions were blatantly violating the NCAA Rulebook by ILLEGALLY SCOUTING (and filming) upcoming opponents - and were proven to have been doing it for years! (the IDENTICAL illegal, cheating activity that the Canadian Women's Olympic Soccer Team was just severely sanctioned for by FIFA for doing it one time! - and sanctioned the day after they violated FIFA's rules by illegally scouting, and filming, their upcoming Olympic opponent's practice with a drone). But nice try at throwing up an utterly bullshit rationalization, and defense, of scUM's blatant cheating and violation of the Rulebook fanboy. Try having a clue wtf you're talking about before you spout off your bullshit, nonsense weak rationalizations defending your cheating team next time fanboy.
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You can correct me if I'm wrong, but Harbaugh's (second) suspension last year (immediately before the PSU game) came from the Big Ten, not from the NCAA, did it not?
The Big Ten actually has way more latitude (because they don't have the same kind of enforcement structure as the NCAA).
To be clear, I'm not defending the snail's pace for the NCAA. Just stating that is the state of play.
Understood. I was assuming that most of us here aren't that personally familiar with how drawn out some "real" legal processes can be. In the case at school it has really opened my eyes in that it is such "old news" but really hasn't even been addressed yet.
Most of us can easily play back stories from each year of high school or college in our minds. To have this fight, and those responsible, not be sentenced for half of high school is ridiculous. There are supposedly "no contact" stipulations in place but in a school of 1200 kids it is impossible to manage.
At the start of Summer I accompanied 14 students to a week long Trades Camp by a local business partner. The beating victim was there along with one boy who has relatively minor charges pending. I kept them as fully apart as possible- and that's how I learned that the one kid FINALLY was having his court appearance.
That is like the UM football stuff. They "won it on the field" and therefore everything that went into those "results" is water under the bridge- or is it? Our society is in such a rapid news cycle that nobody will notice that the Wolveries "wins" weren't "real."
Slow and steady doesn't always win the race. "Justice" often takes time. UM meanwhile has sold plenty of Championship t shirts- saw a proud alum/fan sporting one at a NJTP rest stop last weekend.
Properly adjudicating allegations such as the sign stealing debacle has become quite the conundrum.
Suspending the accused team until the situation can be sorted out is a defacto guilty sentence for the accused.
And if the team/individuals are found guilty post facto; well, the toothpaste cannot be placed back into the tube.
Michigan can remove all of the history of Chris Weber playing basketball there, but I will always remember his ill fated time out he called against Carolina.
How do you properly punish the guilty parties to provide sufficient deterrence if the punishment comes after the fact?
I think it should be for 3 years (1 year for every year they cheated) but I realize that is hopeful thinking.
Which only encourages continued cheating.
I teach High School- Post Covid the "EVERYONE ELSE is doing it" mantra has only gotten bolder as kids push boundaries/ use AI/ have little self control with Vapes/Phones/Ear Buds/ Arriving to school or class on time/ Fail "unfair" tests etc etc etc.
No consequences = no control.
Better to ask forgiveness- or just deny, deny, deny. UM went from being a 3rd/4th place Big Ten East football team with a Head Coach under scrutiny - to becoming a machine that beats its' Rival and "WON?" a championship- just in time for said Head Coach to return to the NFL. Conor the Staloin's arrival coincides with the run. Coincidence?
Bullshit abounds. It may indeed happen at other places too- but they got caught.
Shame should follow....but will likely only be met with consternation from Ann Arbor.
maybe stallions will spill the beans on his opposite numbers in the big ten...speaking of 11 warriors, one of their most accurate posters (brohio) posted today what i've seen on several UM boards..not only was stallions moon lighting for cmu, there are other teams that he was working with/for..getting spicy 🍿
I guess anything is possible but will need more than a post from (check notes) "brohio" to reach a conclusion.
But we know (i.e. from who complained the loudest) who WASN'T using Stalions "scouting services".
Accountability and consequences are functional tools of a merit based system.
At this point in time, I don't believe our leaders are interested in operating under the constraints of that system.
This is out & out cheating. How can the NCAA go easy on Michigan?
I wonder when the NCAA will actually give Michigan an NOI on this stuff? So far it’s been mostly OSU guys giving info of what the NCAA has or doesn’t have. At some point the NCAA has to issue a NOI
They're not in a rush--they know it gets bad after that if they actually try to do anything
Ha! The NCAA will award them five extra schollies for ‘exhibiting great ingenuity and technical skills’.
Don't give the NCAA any ideas.
