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Heroin kills more people than cars 27,000 per year(Frontline)

Michael.Felli

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2013
3,906
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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-bad-is-the-opioid-epidemic/

drug_motor_vehicle_2.png
 
Yes, the gateway is over scripting of pain meds and a broken system that does not require cross checking on a uniform basis. An epidemic of horrible magnitude is taking place. It's messed up.
 
Anyone caught with or caught selling $10,000 or more of heroin, crack, meth should be charged with murder and, if convicted, get minimum 20 yrs. $100,000 or more gets ya executed.
 
Anyone caught with or caught selling $10,000 or more of heroin, crack, meth should be charged with murder and, if convicted, get minimum 20 yrs. $100,000 or more gets ya executed.

We already tried it with the crack epidemic. It doesn't accomplish anything other than costing taxpayers many millions of dollars PER conviction and throwing away a human life.

We still have people in federal prison from 25 years ago who were small time crack dealers. (and federal prison costs us taxpayers something like 40k a year PER PRISONER)

Heck, there is a celebrated case of a father of four kids who sold three bags of weed to a friend who was an undercover agent, was convicted under "three strikes" and is serving 50 or 60 years of prison time.

Ridiculous.

Drug abuse is a really serious problem, but just becuase it's serious it doesn't mean it can be solved by throwing police at it and building huge prisons. If law enforcement was going to solve the nation's drug problem, it would have done it by now.

The fact that we have already had a war on drugs for 40 years and I can buy heroin over a smartphone, have it delivered in half an hour and the cost is less than a six-pack of beer -- that is pretty much proof to me that the law enforcement approach is not going to work. People who want heroin are going to get it, simple as that.
 
We already tried it with the crack epidemic. It doesn't accomplish anything other than costing taxpayers many millions of dollars PER conviction and throwing away a human life.

We still have people in federal prison from 25 years ago who were small time crack dealers. (and federal prison costs us taxpayers something like 40k a year PER PRISONER)

Heck, there is a celebrated case of a father of four kids who sold three bags of weed to a friend who was an undercover agent, was convicted under "three strikes" and is serving 50 or 60 years of prison time.

Ridiculous.

Drug abuse is a really serious problem, but just becuase it's serious it doesn't mean it can be solved by throwing police at it and building huge prisons. If law enforcement was going to solve the nation's drug problem, it would have done it by now.

The fact that we have already had a war on drugs for 40 years and I can buy heroin over a smartphone, have it delivered in half an hour and the cost is less than a six-pack of beer -- that is pretty much proof to me that the law enforcement approach is not going to work. People who want heroin are going to get it, simple as that.
-----

Apparently you missed the part where I stated that major dealers get serious time, not someone with a dime bag. Addicts should get in house treatment, not jail time, including one that sold a dime bag to his roomy.
We never seriously fought any 'war on drugs.' Putting someone in jail for years for a nickle bag of marijuana is stupid. Fine them and let them go. But put the big boys away for a long time. And the really big dealers get executed. Even if it is their 'first offense.' And even if they are as young as sixteen. Some of these so-called kids are serious criminals and should be treated as such, especially since dealers use them because they now get very sentences when caught. Dealers deal in death....let them be treated as such.
 
-----

Apparently you missed the part where I stated that major dealers get serious time, not someone with a dime bag. Addicts should get in house treatment, not jail time, including one that sold a dime bag to his roomy.
We never seriously fought any 'war on drugs.' Putting someone in jail for years for a nickle bag of marijuana is stupid. Fine them and let them go. But put the big boys away for a long time. And the really big dealers get executed. Even if it is their 'first offense.' And even if they are as young as sixteen. Some of these so-called kids are serious criminals and should be treated as such, especially since dealers use them because they now get very sentences when caught. Dealers deal in death....let them be treated as such.

When you are talking about a 100 billion dollar per year black market in the US alone, there will always be someone willing to take the risk.


5. Iran has executed thousands of people in a bid to deter drug trafficking in the country, even though the authorities have admitted it doesn’t work.
Thousands of people have been executed for drug offences since 1959, when this type of crime was made punishable by death. There have been at least 829 executions from January to 20 September this year in Iran. Of these, at least 571 have been for drug-related offences. People most likely to be accused, sentenced and executed are those from disadvantaged groups like foreign nationals and poor people, including ethnic minorities. The authorities themselves have admitted that the death penalty has done little to tackle Iran’s drug problem. According to an expert at Iran’s Centre for Strategic Research, the death penalty has failed to reduce drug trafficking in the country.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/10/is-the-death-penalty-the-answer-to-drug-crime/
 
Maybe we should include dr's unnecessarily prescribing opioid based painkillers? That is the root of this epidemic.

There were three doctors in my hometown convicted of being a drug mill writing scripts for oxy to anyone that wanted it. They got 10-15 yrs, as they should have. Throw more of them in jail.

According to an expert at Iran’s Centre for Strategic Research, the death penalty has failed to reduce drug trafficking in the country.

What is the rate of drug abuse in Iran? How does it compare to the US? Hard to say it has no affect since no one can predict the rate of drug abuse without those measures. Singapore executes drug dealers and they have very little problems there.
 
There were three doctors in my hometown convicted of being a drug mill writing scripts for oxy to anyone that wanted it. They got 10-15 yrs, as they should have. Throw more of them in jail.



What is the rate of drug abuse in Iran? How does it compare to the US? Hard to say it has no affect since no one can predict the rate of drug abuse without those measures. Singapore executes drug dealers and they have very little problems there.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/iran-heroin-drug-addiction.html

There are some analysts who describe Iran’s heroin addiction problem as the “worst in the world.” Estimates of the number of addicts vary widely - from one million to more than three million habitual drug users. A 2006 report estimated that 8 percent of the adult population was addicted to drugs.
 
http://www.narconon.org/drug-information/iran-heroin-drug-addiction.html

There are some analysts who describe Iran’s heroin addiction problem as the “worst in the world.” Estimates of the number of addicts vary widely - from one million to more than three million habitual drug users. A 2006 report estimated that 8 percent of the adult population was addicted to drugs.
Iran. like many countries, has no control of its borders making it easy to smuggle in drugs. And they are on the pathway from A'stan and Pakistan where much of it is grown. If we controlled our borders we could seriously reduce the drug flow.....but we don't want to.

And yes, go after big pharma that encouraged drug abuse.
 
We already tried it with the crack epidemic. It doesn't accomplish anything other than costing taxpayers many millions of dollars PER conviction and throwing away a human life.

We still have people in federal prison from 25 years ago who were small time crack dealers. (and federal prison costs us taxpayers something like 40k a year PER PRISONER)

Heck, there is a celebrated case of a father of four kids who sold three bags of weed to a friend who was an undercover agent, was convicted under "three strikes" and is serving 50 or 60 years of prison time.

Ridiculous.

Drug abuse is a really serious problem, but just becuase it's serious it doesn't mean it can be solved by throwing police at it and building huge prisons. If law enforcement was going to solve the nation's drug problem, it would have done it by now.

The fact that we have already had a war on drugs for 40 years and I can buy heroin over a smartphone, have it delivered in half an hour and the cost is less than a six-pack of beer -- that is pretty much proof to me that the law enforcement approach is not going to work. People who want heroin are going to get it, simple as that.

While I don't disagree what you don't know is whether or not the problem would be worse without the enforcement.

And please don't mention the Netherlands.

The issues are major. Enforcement is an issue, but not the only issue.

LdN
 
While I don't disagree what you don't know is whether or not the problem would be worse without the enforcement.

And please don't mention the Netherlands.

The issues are major. Enforcement is an issue, but not the only issue.

LdN

What about Portugal? They decriminalized all drugs 15 years ago.

No major increases in drug use
Reduced problematic and adolescent drug use
Fewer people arrested and incarcerated for drugs
More people receiving drug treatment
Reduced incidence of HIV/AIDS.
Reduced drug-induced deaths

Independent Research Conclusions
Nearly a decade and a half later, Portugal shows that
decriminalization does not inevitably lead to increases
in drug use, nor does it lead to a culture of
lawlessness. Indeed, none of the fears of critics have
come to pass.

Instead, law enforcement and the criminal justice
system function more efficiently, and Portugal has
been able to invest in improving the health and
wellbeing of people struggling with drug problems.
Community relations with the police have also
significantly improved
.


https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf
 
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What about Portugal? They decriminalized all drugs 15 years ago.

No major increases in drug use
Reduced problematic and adolescent drug use
Fewer people arrested and incarcerated for drugs
More people receiving drug treatment
Reduced incidence of HIV/AIDS.
Reduced drug-induced deaths

Independent Research Conclusions
Nearly a decade and a half later, Portugal shows that
decriminalization does not inevitably lead to increases
in drug use, nor does it lead to a culture of
lawlessness. Indeed, none of the fears of critics have
come to pass.

Instead, law enforcement and the criminal justice
system function more efficiently, and Portugal has
been able to invest in improving the health and
wellbeing of people struggling with drug problems.
Community relations with the police have also
significantly improved
.


https://www.drugpolicy.org/sites/default/files/DPA_Fact_Sheet_Portugal_Decriminalization_Feb2015.pdf

Portugal... that's the country where kids come up to you in the train station and try to get you to give them money and or buy gum?

I don't doubt it would succeed, however my point is that we don't know where we would be TODAY without the enforcement of the past.

Like many things, ideas seem great. Just decriminalize. Seems like a great solution. Until it isn't.

LdN
 
-----

Apparently you missed the part where I stated that major dealers get serious time, not someone with a dime bag. Addicts should get in house treatment, not jail time, including one that sold a dime bag to his roomy.
We never seriously fought any 'war on drugs.' Putting someone in jail for years for a nickle bag of marijuana is stupid. Fine them and let them go. But put the big boys away for a long time. And the really big dealers get executed. Even if it is their 'first offense.' And even if they are as young as sixteen. Some of these so-called kids are serious criminals and should be treated as such, especially since dealers use them because they now get very sentences when caught. Dealers deal in death....let them be treated as such.

1) You may say you only want to put "major dealers" in jail, but prosecutors and police take the ball and run with it. And major dealers are hard to catch -- so they catch the little ones. There are tens of thousands of small street dealers, mostly black men, taking up space in prison -- we pay $40,000 a year to feed and house them, and when they get out they will be sponging off everybody because they won't be able to get jobs.

Another example of stupid, well intentioned laws -- civil asset forfeiture -- they were supposed to be used to take the assets of drug kingpins, their private planes, their mansions etc. And what do you know, state troopers are using them in the midwest to stop cars, ask people if they're carrying cash, and just take it and make people sue to get it back. They make lots of money that way. But it's an example of how laws become twisted by police and prosecutors into something completely unrecognizable.

2) I don't know what you mean by "seriously" -- the country has spent close to $200 BILLION in DIRECT expenditures on the war on drugs, and the indirect costs in terms of lost earnings and ruined lives is much more than that. Iimagine what you could do with that money if you applied it to mental health and homelessness, or inner city public schools.

Maybe you could argue that $200 billion was worth the cost if it made us a sober, drug-free nation where nobody ever overdoses on heroin. But....just like prohibition, it failed TOTALLY. Drug use is as high as it ever was and drugs are more available than they have ever been. Prohibition didn't work, and Prohibition II isn't working either. Not that there weren't plenty of good intentions, but good intentions often do not make for good government.

This is just an area where people need to step back and try to think a little bit. Yes we have a problem with people killing themselves with drugs. But there are many problems that we can't solve by throwing money and police and jails at it. Every year people commit suicide because they're depressed. Every year spouses beat up spouses and sometimes kill them. People drink themselves to death. People kill themselves with heroin.

I think you have to get away from the idea that there will ever be a total solution to these things. Law enforcement is part of the answer but just a part, and it needs to be used smartly. And we need non-law-enforcement resources applied as well. But ultimately, if people want to kill themselves with substances, we as a society have to be realistic, we don't want them do to do it but some are going to. We can't solve every societal problem with government -- we just can't.
 
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We already tried it with the crack epidemic. It doesn't accomplish anything other than costing taxpayers many millions of dollars PER conviction and throwing away a human life.

We still have people in federal prison from 25 years ago who were small time crack dealers. (and federal prison costs us taxpayers something like 40k a year PER PRISONER)

Heck, there is a celebrated case of a father of four kids who sold three bags of weed to a friend who was an undercover agent, was convicted under "three strikes" and is serving 50 or 60 years of prison time.

Ridiculous.

Drug abuse is a really serious problem, but just becuase it's serious it doesn't mean it can be solved by throwing police at it and building huge prisons. If law enforcement was going to solve the nation's drug problem, it would have done it by now.

The fact that we have already had a war on drugs for 40 years and I can buy heroin over a smartphone, have it delivered in half an hour and the cost is less than a six-pack of beer -- that is pretty much proof to me that the law enforcement approach is not going to work. People who want heroin are going to get it, simple as that.
 
The only people in prin
We already tried it with the crack epidemic. It doesn't accomplish anything other than costing taxpayers many millions of dollars PER conviction and throwing away a human life.

We still have people in federal prison from 25 years ago who were small time crack dealers. (and federal prison costs us taxpayers something like 40k a year PER PRISONER)

Heck, there is a celebrated case of a father of four kids who sold three bags of weed to a friend who was an undercover agent, was convicted under "three strikes" and is serving 50 or 60 years of prison time.

Ridiculous.

Drug abuse is a really serious problem, but just becuase it's serious it doesn't mean it can be solved by throwing police at it and building huge prisons. If law enforcement was going to solve the nation's drug problem, it would have done it by now.

The fact that we have already had a war on drugs for 40 years and I can buy heroin over a smartphone, have it delivered in half an hour and the cost is less than a six-pack of beer -- that is pretty much proof to me that the law enforcement approach is not going to work. People who want heroin are going to get it, simple as that.
 
The only people in prison who sold crack years ago and got stiff sentences were the ones that fell under Clinton's "three strikes you're out law". That means they had three felony convictions. This myth going around that someone is a victim for selling a rock of rack or an ounce of weed is bullshit!

Drug dealers are "violent people." They get welfare each month, free housing, utilities paid, free medical treatment, food stamps, and now, thanks to Obama, they get a free cell phone to help sell their drugs. Unless you have really been exposed to the everyday dealings of these scum bags and they way they are ruining our cities, don't comment unless you have the facts.

Look at the kid from Baltimore, Freddy Gray! How many times was he arrested for selling drugs? And you feel sorry for him!!! Did he ever do 20-25 years in prison? If he did, the city of Baltimore would have been a better place to live.
 
I have a friend who is a heroin addict out here in San Francisco. He was literally taking Uber down to the Tenderloin and getting heroin every other night. He just completed his 3rd rehab stint in Panama and I hear that he is doing better. He was doing good for 2-3 years, but injured his knee and of course was prescribed pain killers and it all went down hill from there. He first got hooked on heroin in small town PA.
 
The only people in prison who sold crack years ago and got stiff sentences were the ones that fell under Clinton's "three strikes you're out law". That means they had three felony convictions. This myth going around that someone is a victim for selling a rock of rack or an ounce of weed is bullshit!

Drug dealers are "violent people." They get welfare each month, free housing, utilities paid, free medical treatment, food stamps, and now, thanks to Obama, they get a free cell phone to help sell their drugs. Unless you have really been exposed to the everyday dealings of these scum bags and they way they are ruining our cities, don't comment unless you have the facts.

Look at the kid from Baltimore, Freddy Gray! How many times was he arrested for selling drugs? And you feel sorry for him!!! Did he ever do 20-25 years in prison? If he did, the city of Baltimore would have been a better place to live.

LOL!!! What about the ones slinging drugs in private schools? The suburb dealers slinging pills to your everyday middle class kids? They aren't carrying guns and beating people down. Only the inner city ones are the bad ones to you? You realize kids sling drugs to put them selves through college? Heroin is far from an inner city problem. I grew up in a pretty decent middle class area and the place is overrun with little rich white hiss slinging and using. What does Freddy Gray have to do with that?

News flash the war on drugs was an epic failure unless you own a prison. There is no silver bullet to stop drugs, but the mass jailing route hasn't been a success.
 
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1) You may say you only want to put "major dealers" in jail, but prosecutors and police take the ball and run with it. And major dealers are hard to catch -- so they catch the little ones. There are tens of thousands of small street dealers, mostly black men, taking up space in prison -- we pay $40,000 a year to feed and house them, and when they get out they will be sponging off everybody because they won't be able to get jobs.

Another example of stupid, well intentioned laws -- civil asset forfeiture -- they were supposed to be used to take the assets of drug kingpins, their private planes, their mansions etc. And what do you know, state troopers are using them in the midwest to stop cars, ask people if they're carrying cash, and just take it and make people sue to get it back. They make lots of money that way. But it's an example of how laws become twisted by police and prosecutors into something completely unrecognizable.

2) I don't know what you mean by "seriously" -- the country has spent close to $200 BILLION in DIRECT expenditures on the war on drugs, and the indirect costs in terms of lost earnings and ruined lives is much more than that. Iimagine what you could do with that money if you applied it to mental health and homelessness, or inner city public schools.

Maybe you could argue that $200 billion was worth the cost if it made us a sober, drug-free nation where nobody ever overdoses on heroin. But....just like prohibition, it failed TOTALLY. Drug use is as high as it ever was and drugs are more available than they have ever been. Prohibition didn't work, and Prohibition II isn't working either. Not that there weren't plenty of good intentions, but good intentions often do not make for good government.

This is just an area where people need to step back and try to think a little bit. Yes we have a problem with people killing themselves with drugs. But there are many problems that we can't solve by throwing money and police and jails at it. Every year people commit suicide because they're depressed. Every year spouses beat up spouses and sometimes kill them. People drink themselves to death. People kill themselves with heroin.

I think you have to get away from the idea that there will ever be a total solution to these things. Law enforcement is part of the answer but just a part, and it needs to be used smartly. And we need non-law-enforcement resources applied as well. But ultimately, if people want to kill themselves with substances, we as a society have to be realistic, we don't want them do to do it but some are going to. We can't solve every societal problem with government -- we just can't.
-----------

1 you set limits right in the law so it is distorted by DAs trying to build a record of convictions. Like I said, $10,000 grand and $100,000. ....cash and drug equivalent...or what ever is reasonable amounts to distinguish dealers.

2 I don't care what color they are, if they do the crime they do the time. Plea deal small dealers into cooperating.If they don't I won't feel sorry for them.

3 Asset forfeiture should only be done after conviction, not on a whim as it is now....really stupid.

4 $200 billion? Ha! We wasted six trillion on Great Society programs since LBJ was Pres. Reform our welfare/assistance programs so we aren't encouraging fatherless kids, teenage pregnancies, high school drop outs, and more. And i isn't just a black family issue as there are a lot of white folk sin poverty with the same issues. It would probably take ten years or more to repair the damage done but it pay off big time.

5 Seriously means really stopping drugs abuse. Serious time for dealers, Secure the border to stop the smuggling. Deal tougher with countries supplying the drugs. Sad, we won't because a sudden cessation of drug abuse would bankrupt the economies of multiple countries and cause chaos in the global financial system.

6 I don't ever expect to eliminate drug abuse but getting back to where is was 70 yrs ago would be nice.
 
LOL!!! What about the ones slinging drugs in private schools? The suburb dealers slinging pills to your everyday middle class kids? They aren't carrying guns and beating people down. Only the inner city ones are the bad ones to you? You realize kids sling drugs to put them selves through college? Heroin is far from an inner city problem. I grew up in a pretty decent middle class area and the place is overrun with little rich white hiss slinging and using. What does Freddy Gray have to do with that?

News flash the war on drugs was an epic failure unless you own a prison. There is no silver bullet to stop drugs, but the mass jailing route hasn't been a success.

I know full well about the middle class drug dealers in the suburbs. Arrested and convicted a number of them years ago. In fact, more arrests were made in the white suburban areas, rather than the inner cities, so don't think that minorities were being picked on. Freddy gray was brought up since he was the most recent infamous drug dealer that had numerous convictions for drug dealing and never spent more than 6 months in jail.

There is a silver bullet to the epic failure of the drug problem, and that is to hand out the stiff sentences without the absolute insane probation that accompanies the sentence. Big time drug dealers both black/white are sentenced to 10 years in prison and are paroled after serving 2-3 years. This happens all the time. I have seen some serve as little as 6 months for transporting tons of drugs, both MJ and Cocaine.

The inner cities are not being picked on; drugs are rampant everywhere thanks to our "liberal society" and the "trial lawyers" who are tied directly to the political system. They are making billions of dollars defending these scum bags.

I cited the inner cities just to make a point from one of these drug dealers I spoke with after arresting him years ago. He said to the effect: "why work"? when I get all the "entitlements " to live on and make good money selling drugs all night!!!
 
So more prisons? Great as that has been such a huge success the last 30 years. Before you slap down the liberal card, guess again.
 
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1 you set limits right in the law so it is distorted by DAs trying to build a record of convictions. Like I said, $10,000 grand and $100,000. ....cash and drug equivalent...or what ever is reasonable amounts to distinguish dealers.

2 I don't care what color they are, if they do the crime they do the time. Plea deal small dealers into cooperating.If they don't I won't feel sorry for them.

3 Asset forfeiture should only be done after conviction, not on a whim as it is now....really stupid.

4 $200 billion? Ha! We wasted six trillion on Great Society programs since LBJ was Pres. Reform our welfare/assistance programs so we aren't encouraging fatherless kids, teenage pregnancies, high school drop outs, and more. And i isn't just a black family issue as there are a lot of white folk sin poverty with the same issues. It would probably take ten years or more to repair the damage done but it pay off big time.

5 Seriously means really stopping drugs abuse. Serious time for dealers, Secure the border to stop the smuggling. Deal tougher with countries supplying the drugs. Sad, we won't because a sudden cessation of drug abuse would bankrupt the economies of multiple countries and cause chaos in the global financial system.

6 I don't ever expect to eliminate drug abuse but getting back to where is was 70 yrs ago would be nice.

Fortunately fewer and fewer people are listening to people like you. Your ideas are old tired and worthless.
 
So more prisons? Great as that has been such a huge success the last 30 years. Before you slap down the liberal card, guess again.

You wouldn't need "more prisons" if you just handed out the appropriate sentences to start with. It's a freaking "revolving door" with these termites selling drugs, going to jail for a few months and back out on the street. Knock off parole system wherein a "career criminal" gets sentenced to 15 years and is back on he streets in 2 years! If they had to serve the total sentence of 10-15 years to begin with, then we wouldn't need "more prisons." A Liberals way of pandering to not only drug dealers but all the other violent criminals feeding off our society!

How many convictions did Freddy Gray have "17-20"? or somewhere close to that, yet he was lucky if he spent 2 years in jail total before he was back out dealing his death on the streets again since he was too freaking lazy to go to work!
 
Anybody who still defends the War on Drugs approach simply needs to wake up. It didn't work. It failed in every conceivable way. Anybody who thinks you can arrest and imprison the drug problem away is just not living in a place of reality.

There are lots of people drawing a really good paycheck from the War on Drugs. Everybody from vice detectives clearing $160,000 a year with overtime to drug therapists and psychologists who make bank from convicted drug users who are ordered into treatment. Plus all those sheriffs and deputies who outfit their departments with really nice bling from asset forfeiture. Plus all those private prison contractors who get rich on taxpayer money. The Drug War is big government at its worst, but it is really good money for some people. So I understand those people trying to defend their paychecks.

But anybody who doesn't have a paycheck in it -- it should be obvious, the War on Drugs is a colossal failure. Probably the biggest domestic policy failure of our time. I don't think anybody could argue that drug enforcement has been ANY more successful than alcohol enforcement was in the 1920s. It has not made a dent in drug use, it has cost society a bundle, and it has only made the drug production and distribution business into a giant multinational industry that doesn't pay taxes. To say nothing of what drug enforcement has done to destabilize and create violence and ruin communities in Mexico and Central America.
 
Fortunately fewer and fewer people are listening to people like you. Your ideas are old tired and worthless.
------
Yeah, great point by point comeback.

And so many have listened to your liberal, feel-good tripe that the drug problem just gets worse and worse. Its the liberal policies that destroyed the families of the poor, black and white. Policies that brought us fatherless kids, teenage pregnancies, high school drop outs, women with five kids to three or four different men....and none of them acting as responsible fathers. I know a guy that student taught 8th grade. In one class of 24 kids, four girls were pregnant, one with her second child! Eighth-frickin-grade!!! Those girls and their kids have about no chance of a decent life.

Change the damn system and save the next generation as it is too late for the last two or three.
 
Anybody who still defends the War on Drugs approach simply needs to wake up. It didn't work. It failed in every conceivable way. Anybody who thinks you can arrest and imprison the drug problem away is just not living in a place of reality.

There are lots of people drawing a really good paycheck from the War on Drugs. Everybody from vice detectives clearing $160,000 a year with overtime to drug therapists and psychologists who make bank from convicted drug users who are ordered into treatment. Plus all those sheriffs and deputies who outfit their departments with really nice bling from asset forfeiture. Plus all those private prison contractors who get rich on taxpayer money. The Drug War is big government at its worst, but it is really good money for some people. So I understand those people trying to defend their paychecks.

But anybody who doesn't have a paycheck in it -- it should be obvious, the War on Drugs is a colossal failure. Probably the biggest domestic policy failure of our time. I don't think anybody could argue that drug enforcement has been ANY more successful than alcohol enforcement was in the 1920s. It has not made a dent in drug use, it has cost society a bundle, and it has only made the drug production and distribution business into a giant multinational industry that doesn't pay taxes. To say nothing of what drug enforcement has done to destabilize and create violence and ruin communities in Mexico and Central America.
------
Its been a failure because it is treating the symptoms not the disease. See previous post to understand that it is our welfare system that destroys families and leads to despair and drug abuse. When kids have no family, no respect, no sense of law and order, no discipline, and absolutely zero job skills, they turn to drugs and violence. Until you change that nothing, including legalization, will change a thing.
 
You wouldn't need "more prisons" if you just handed out the appropriate sentences to start with. It's a freaking "revolving door" with these termites selling drugs, going to jail for a few months and back out on the street. Knock off parole system wherein a "career criminal" gets sentenced to 15 years and is back on he streets in 2 years!

I would recommend you just get informed. Read up on the issue. There's been no shortage of draconian sentences. We've had to basically double the size of the federal prison system to handle all the people serving long sentences for drug offenses. Maybe you want to double it again or quadruple it again. But you could throw another million people in prison (which is SUPER expensive by the way) and it still wouldn't stop people from using drugs and distributing drugs. There are limits to what government can accomplish, and both liberals and conservatives need to be reminded of that from time to time.

I think the whole idea is really really dumb. Like most of you, I pay a LOT of taxes to the federal government. I want that money spent well. When I pay money for police and prisons, I want those resources used in a way that makes me safe. Taking crack addicts and small-time dealers and throwing them in prison for decades does NOT make me safer. In fact the space they take up means it is more likely that violent criminals get out sooner.

The job of police, the job of prisons, should ultimately be to make our lives safer. It should not be to enforce some people's idea of morality. We have enough problems in the world; we just can't be wasting precious taxpayer resources throwing people in jail over nonviolent drug offenses.

And this is no radical opinion. There is a bipartisan consenses emerging in Washington on this -- some very liberal and very conservative people in Congress are starting to look at it this way. Changes are coming..
 
---------
I recommend you go back and re-read the thread. No one....not one....said anything about jailing addicts. Or even small dealers. Or marijuana users.

You are right on the money Spin Master. I keep hearing that individuals who sold an ounce of MJ end up with 20-25 years in prison. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our prisons are "full of repeat offenders" meaning at least 95% of them have committed felony crimes before. And, that is the crimes that they were arrested of convicted of.

If these maggots would have just served the sentence they originally received, 15-20 years, You can bet your ass there would not be an overflow problem with the need to build more prisons. And, your point about the Welfare system and the continuous birth out of wedlock, namely in our cities, continually turns these fatherless kids into hard core criminals, Gang Bangers who also start collecting welfare and think life is good by selling more drugs. Thanks to Obama, they now have a free cell phone to conduct their business.

These liberal politicians will do anything to just keep the votes they need to stay in office. I'm talking about politicians that are "liberal multi-millionaires" Polosi, Reid, the Clintons just made "145 million dollars" and Hillary is trying to pander to the black community by bringing up racism, and she thinks she is for the "middle class." Nothing could be further from the truth.

Boyer says that Vice Detectives are making 160K a year with over time from drug cases. Maybe some are, but I can speak right form the horses mouth that a lot of them don't come close to making that kind of money. But, "Politicians" serve six years in congress and get a life time pension of "15K" with every benefit you can think of, and they Do Not contribute one stinking dime to get that insane pension!!!
 
You are right on the money Spin Master. I keep hearing that individuals who sold an ounce of MJ end up with 20-25 years in prison. Nothing could be further from the truth. Our prisons are "full of repeat offenders" meaning at least 95% of them have committed felony crimes before. And, that is the crimes that they were arrested of convicted of.

If these maggots would have just served the sentence they originally received, 15-20 years, You can bet your ass there would not be an overflow problem with the need to build more prisons. And, your point about the Welfare system and the continuous birth out of wedlock, namely in our cities, continually turns these fatherless kids into hard core criminals, Gang Bangers who also start collecting welfare and think life is good by selling more drugs. Thanks to Obama, they now have a free cell phone to conduct their business.

These liberal politicians will do anything to just keep the votes they need to stay in office. I'm talking about politicians that are "liberal multi-millionaires" Polosi, Reid, the Clintons just made "145 million dollars" and Hillary is trying to pander to the black community by bringing up racism, and she thinks she is for the "middle class." Nothing could be further from the truth.

Boyer says that Vice Detectives are making 160K a year with over time from drug cases. Maybe some are, but I can speak right form the horses mouth that a lot of them don't come close to making that kind of money. But, "Politicians" serve six years in congress and get a life time pension of "15K" a month with every benefit you can think of, and they Do Not contribute one stinking dime to get that insane pension!!! Police, Fireman, etc. all contribute to their pensions, most of which are completely solvent until the "politicians" start raided this pensions systems, which Christy Whitman did in NJ, and now they are talking again, about a fiscal crisis with no money to pay state workers. Yet, they make sure the money is there for "Welfare, Food Stamps, Medical Care, etc. Those "Hand-Outs" can never be discontinued.
 

That is "15K a Month" for our beloved politicians for just hanging around Washington for six years, and Boyer worries about a Vice Cop!!!
 
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