This is follow-up to a story posted here last December.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...ref-suspended-two-years/ar-AAHuoTT?li=BBnb7Kz
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...ref-suspended-two-years/ar-AAHuoTT?li=BBnb7Kz
High School Ref Suspended
- Thread starter RoarLions1
- Start date
Seems stupid to me. Wear proper equipment/have your hair at the proper length or have your hair cut. The rule isn't racist as much as people like to throw that title on any and everything they can these days
His (alledged) racist past was the factor that made the haircut ultimatum seem racist.
Regardless, the ref followed procedure and the kid/coach had other options.
If the ref had followed procedure this is something that should have been addressed at weigh-ins. If for some reason the ref can not be present for weigh-ins his opportunity to address it is gone and whoever was officiating the weigh-in was the entity responsible for addressing it. If that official was OK with the hair then it is not an issue.
Making it an issue when the kid took the mat and forcing a public haircut was bullying and an example of an adult being small and childish.
nit, from what I had read, the only thing the (racist past, I agree) ref did was enforce the rule. it was the coach and wrestler who decided to do the public haircut.
As an official, i hear many times during the course of a season "they let us do it last week" or some variation of that. Doesn't make it right.
Let's also be clear. The "violation" was not due to the length of the hair. It was due to the hair being "unnatural".
The wrestler cutting his hair didn't make the hair any "less unnatrual". He still had dreadlocks. Just shorter dreadlocks. Even though the length of the hair was not the issue.
I don't know if it's racist or not, but I think it's hard to say the ref was just enforcing the rules too.
The wrestler cutting his hair didn't make the hair any "less unnatrual". He still had dreadlocks. Just shorter dreadlocks. Even though the length of the hair was not the issue.
I don't know if it's racist or not, but I think it's hard to say the ref was just enforcing the rules too.
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...off-his-dreadlocks-or-forfeit-a-match.228374/
Just in case people want to re-read the original
Just in case people want to re-read the original
If the referee had done his checks like he’s paid to do, before the match, whether or not he’s late, sick or just in a bad mood, none of this had to happen. If anything the kid had a cap on, the ref could have let it go, had the kid tuck in his braids and the match would have happened no harm no foul. Sorry but it’s all on him, whether or not the guy is a racist.
You're welcome. Glad you appreciated it.
On the topic of the cap, did the athlete have one and the ref said it was unacceptable? I do not remember him having one but it has been some time. You not showing up with equipment that makes your hair style illegal is on you, the ref isn't responsible for a student to bring the right gear to the mat. I saw a black individual show up Matisse without his hair covering last year and lost by dq because he couldn't get one in time (they ran injury time for him to get his covering). I've also had to cut the hair of my white athletes who wore the "skater" look that went below the ear lobe. The same rules apply to each participant. I cannot speak to this ref's past behavior(s)
an inaccurate assessment
in NJ, unlike most other states, the refs are not involved in the weigh-ins for high school matches. They do meet with each team before the match, but at mat-side.. The ref did inform the wrestler in question mat-side that he'd need to wear a hairnet, and he asked the wrestler to see what he would be wearing. The wrestler informed him that he had it, but the wrestler did not produce his headgear to show that his was legal in that it had an attached hairnet. If I recall correctly, he asked the wrestler a second time, either during the mat-side meeting or just before the meet started, about the headgear, and the wrestler told him that he had it, but it was back in his locker, or something like that. About the only place I can fault the ref is that he did not demand that the wrestler produce the equipment at that time. However, it's not uncommon for things like this to be pushed, so to speak, with the expectation that they will be addressed before the actual match.
The wrestler came out on the mat for his match, and that's when the ref realized that his headgear was illegal, as the hairnet was not attached to it. Per the applicable rules, that's when the ref put the wrestler on the clock to resolve the situation. The wrestler/his team had the option of a) coming up with and wearing legal headgear, b) forfeiting the match, or c) cutting his hair so that he no longer needed to wear the hairnet. The aforementioned a) would have been the proper resolution. The aforementioned b) would have been unfortunate, but not been a big deal. The team elected to go with the aforementioned c), and the video of it was misconstrued by many.
In most states, including PA, this is something that would be resolved in the locker room, at weigh-ins. I'd say that somewhere around 50% of the weigh-ins I conduct in high school have situations where a wrestler has to either cut their hair or shave, but the public never sees those activities.
Nor should they (the general public) see those situations. Assuming NJ rules are as you describe then my bad. However, the place to address the issue was during the mat side meeting. Once the official waved the need to see the hair cover, consent was implied and should never had been an issue if when the kid presented to wrestle the kid had it on. Unattached to the headgear or not. Basically the ref decided, I had no idea this was noncompliant because I failed to do my job correctly so I will dump my ill performed job performance onto the kid. Still an adult being small and childish.
So read page 24 of the Rule Book for NJ:
1. WEIGH-IN PERIOD. (g.) and tell me how anything you stated makes any sense...I'll leave the link. This is easy stuff
https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/files/document/W REGULAR SEASONr.pdf
https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/files/document/W REGULAR SEASONr.pdf
1. WEIGH-IN PERIOD. (g.) and tell me how anything you stated makes any sense...I'll leave the link. This is easy stuff
https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/files/document/W REGULAR SEASONr.pdf
https://www.njsiaa.org/sites/default/files/document/W REGULAR SEASONr.pdf
I think we somewhat agree, and somewhat disagree.
I did state that you can fault the ref for not demanding to see the headgear/attached hairnet. However, I don't feel that the ref ever waved the need to see the hair cover, or implied consent with what the wrestler planned to wear. Your comments after that I'm in disagreement with, in that I think they are based on a supposition that is inaccurate.
I should add to my earlier post that if I recall correctly, the ref in question was a little late in getting to the school. I can't recall if that's because he had an earlier wrestling meet in the afternoon, or had traffic or other issues that caused him to to be a little delayed. It did cause his pre-match review to be somewhat rushed, but the ref was pretty clear that this did not interfere with his asking for the wrestler in question's headgear.
Also, I think we probably are in general agreement about a good deal concerning implementation of the rules by the ref. If I were to encounter this situation at a youth match/tournament, I'd simply mention to the wrestler's coach that they should encourage the wrestler to get an appropriate headgear/attached hairnet, but would not prevent the wrestler from wrestling or even discuss the situation with them/their parents. For a middle school match, I would allow the wrestler to wrestle, but would tell the coach that if I officiated again at the school (or had that team as a visitor at another school), that I would not allow the wrestler to wrestle if they did not have a legal headgear/hairnet combo. Refs really get into a bind when you get to the high school level. With JV wrestlers, a lot of refs are a tad more lenient about some things (like this rule), even though most of the info coming from the state to the refs is to fully enforce every rule. When you get to varsity competition, which was the level of competition where this situation between the ref and the kid with the non-compliant headgear/hairnet combo took place, most refs don't have leniency. It's a combination of varsity wrestlers need to follow the rules, and refs can get in a lot of trouble, and not be covered by their insurance, if an incident occurs during the match and it is determined that the ref allowed a wrestler to participate with non-compliant gear.
You're right that this is easy stuff.
Nothing that I've written in this thread is in conflict with what you linked.
Actually reading the New Jersey rule book that Truth provided changes the tone of our conversation. The time for checking the hair covering and general grooming is at weigh-ins. Once the kid got through the weigh-in process having presented the hair covering and passed the general grooming check this should have been a done deal. The referee being late is on the ref. Addressing the issue at the matside meeting and again as the individual match was to begin was stepping outside the referee's authority.
SMH...crazy world we live in. I literally give the guy the link to the page of the rule book that completely destroys his argument and he’s standing by his nonsense.
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It's doubtful that any of you are exactly right. This story was beat to death when it broke, BWI with three pages of facts and opinions, and many others on the vast interweb taking sides.
The NJ Attorney General and the Division on Civil Rights, among others, were involved, and it took nine months to reach the decision/agreement that they did. I get that individuals want to insert themselves into the process, though it's highly doubtful they have ALL the facts. Instead, they head into that netherworld where all the facts aren't needed. Not saying the Attorney General and others are infallible, just that they surely had more to consider than the general public knows.
The NJ Attorney General and the Division on Civil Rights, among others, were involved, and it took nine months to reach the decision/agreement that they did. I get that individuals want to insert themselves into the process, though it's highly doubtful they have ALL the facts. Instead, they head into that netherworld where all the facts aren't needed. Not saying the Attorney General and others are infallible, just that they surely had more to consider than the general public knows.
There is a shortage of refs for all sports. Could be he was assigned both matches knowing that he would be late for the second one, no ref, no match. Compromises get made.
What is interesting, I live in Maryland, last winter there was a poster by the gym at the local high school about wrestling, a point of emphasis for last season in Maryland was enforcement of hair length.
My wife has suggested I ref to make some extra money, soccer and wrestling. Seeing what happened to this guy, glad I have resisted the encouragement to ref. If you do a good job, basically nobody cares, somebody thinks you made a mistake or got something wrong, well enjoy your shyte sandwich. This guy got dragged through the mud on a national level for enforcing a rule that everyone who has ever wrestled has seen enforced. Admittedly it never should have gotten to a matside haircut.
Keep in mind what happened to Shak at NCAA's a few years ago. His hair was ok until it wasn't and injury time started for him while the coaches hunted for the proper head gear. Care to bet Shak gets a haircut if the headgear was not found.
A couple points.
It is never easy stuff. Try doing it.
The ref is always in control of the mat area and can and should enforce the letter of the rule at all times including correcting errors he or she might have made. I.E bad time.
So Truth Talk, you are the ref, your doing the weigh in for 20 wrestlers from team A and 18 wrestlers from team B. The lighting is not always the best in those locker rooms.
You have to make sure the athletes are properly weighed in, the weights are proper for the descent chart, you have to do a full body skin check, look at finger nails, hair, clean shaved, make sure no athletes leave the weigh in area prior to completion of the weigh in, close weight classes as you weigh in, look at special equipment etc. and talk about sportsmanship. All under the pressure these kids want to get something in their stomach and began warming up.
Continuing, you oked all athletes for the skin check at weigh in. The match starts. Prior to the second match as the home wrestler checks in at the score table you notice that he has a small patch of herpes virus under his arm that you did not notice at weigh in.
Based on your argument as you didn't catch it at weigh ins, he can wrestle.
If you let him wrestle shame on you. Reverse your earlier decision, apply the rules at that time or look for a good attorney.
You need to read Rule 3 on Refs and their duties from the NFHS. On matters of judgement, the referee shall have full control.
Listen, you can argue the semantics all you guys want, do your job, do the checks, or don't referee. I've witnessed this process with my own eyes 100's of times. All referee's should be held to a higher standard so this stuff doesn't happen. If you do a half ass job at your 9-5 what happens...YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, I mean come on.
You guys are straight losing your minds, defending this guy
You guys are straight losing your minds, defending this guy
I agreed with you completely until this paragraph. The leniency shown at lower levels is what gets refs in trouble the next week or the next year, as kids and coaches will continue to push the limits. Consistently follow the rules. It seems that if the refs in previous matches had enforced the rule, there might not have been an issue in this match.
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Based on your comments I have to believe that you've lost your mind.
I know this official and have known him since he wrestled in high school and your self righteousness is enough to gag me.
And with the national shortage of officials, and State Associations bowing to politics causing more officials to retire, I hope you enjoy life without HS sports if this crap continues.
It seems in this case the ref did enforce the rules, it was just done in a haphazard way. Ideally this should have been done in the locker room and not matside. Where is the responsibility on the coaches to ensure that kids have the proper hair length?
I coached soccer for 15 years, mostly girls teams. Before every game the ref inspects the girls, looking for shin guards, proper footwear, no jewelry, no earrings, nothing hard in the hair. I rarely had a problem since I inspected the kids prior to the ref. I would communicate to parents in writing and speak to the kids about no earrings....don't get your ears pierced right before or during soccer season.
LOL. I remember this well. I used to have a handful of earrings as the ref walked down the line. Always kept extra scrunchies/hair ties on the turn signal of my car too, and bobby pins on the vents. I think I still have a few hair ties and bobby pins in my old Corolla.....
I miss it.
Ha ha. I remember seeing the original thread and not clicking on it because there was no need to click on it to know what was going to be inside. I don’t know what made me click on this new thread, but I see I was right the first time: there is no need to click on it because I already knew what would be inside.
[edit: so, I’m now hoping for some out-of-the-box takes. Wacky ones. Where’s Spyker?
]
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Why bring negativity and personal attacks to the board? If you put 5 people in a room, there would probably be 4 different takes on it. Of course it is clear that to you, your take is the only possible one that is right and everyone else is an idiot.
If you want people to listen to you, how you say things speaks louder about you than what you actually say.
A herpes virus is equivalent to long hair?
Wait a minute, I have toooooo stttrrreeeetch to get from here to there.
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Somebody conducted the weigh-ins, that same person (people) also saw the hair cover and did not object. Everybody on here who uses the letter of the law arguement to side with the official might want to consider the letter of the rule is the hair piece is addressed at weigh-ins, not immediately prior to the start of the dual with a matside meet and greet, nor at the beginning of the affected individual's match.
Did he *always* use the N-word or is this something he started later in life?
But a prior criminal history shouldn’t be used to determine guilt or job qualifications, right?
It isn’t what you do when everyone is watching, it’s what you do when you think nobody is watching that says the most about your character.
Again, we probably agree more than we disagree here.
At the lowest levels (youth), many of the leagues have passed rules that specifically exempt wrestlers (male or female) from having to have a "legal" headgear/hairnet combo -- the type that is required by the NFHS rules.
This causes some problems at the middle school level, as many of the kids use the same equipment that they use in their club (i.e., the headgear that doesn't meet the rules for the hairnet being attached). If the ref were to enforce the rule, it's likely that the wrestler would more quickly obtain the proper equipment. On the flip side, I've been involved in far too many middle school matches where half the weights are forfeits. I'd rather see kids wrestling than having to forfeit due to not being able to wear headgear that is acceptable on the weekend.
On the high school level, I probably should have provided a little more context. Varsity, as I indicated, there is no leeway afforded. At the JV level, the leeway was more commonly given in the first year the rule was added (4 or 5 years ago). Since then, the leeway has pretty much been eliminated for most of the teams. The only times I didn't enforce the rule for JV in the past couple of years were with really weak programs, where most of the JV wrestlers have never wrestled before that season, and they only had @ 5 JV wrestlers. Strictly enforcing the rule isn't wrong in such a situation; I just think it's better to have the newbies wrestle, while also making it clear to them and their coach what the rules are, and that I won't be exempting them from it if I see them again in a week or two.
If it’s a gray area, and the goal is really to see which kid is a better wrestler, then why make headgear such a big deal?
Tom,
It's nice to see some rational responses to a bad situation, for all involved. Even though it is sometimes comical to read post from people who know absolutely nothing about a situation, or anyone involved in it, the venom spewed pretty much tells you all you need to know about the poster. In this case the headgear rule was changed by the state governing body during the previous off season and the head official in the area, who happens to be from the school in question, spoke to the team and coaches a week prior to the occurrence explaining the rule changes and the new type of attaching head cover that would be required. Leaping to conclusions is rarely a good idea and basing them on second hand (or third or more) information is just plain foolish.
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