Hmmm..Netflix to release "sign stealer" about University of Michigan
- Thread starter Obliviax
- Start date
Pathetic that Netflix has to do the dirty work for NCAA.
Ncaa will probably accept whatever he says as truth and not investigate UM.
I wanted Kevin Spacey to play the part.....not sure that he was considered.
Well the cheating should not be forgotten. Did they pay Connor Stalions for the story?
It will be slanted like all of their other documentaries where the person it's about is involved in the project. See: Urban Meyer and the UF documentary, Johnny Manziel. If you're expecting some unbiased product or a hit piece on Stallions, prepare for disappointment. Stallions will make sure he looks as good as possible here, or he wouldn't have participated.
What exactly is going on with the NCAA investigation? Is there even one?
Zero chance Stalions says anything incriminating about UM.
Anything he says will either already be in the public record, be something benign or be a lie.
We will still have to wait for NCAA findings to get satisfaction.
(not sure if this is tongue in cheek or not)
Yes, there is absolutely an NCAA investigation into sign stealing. The last they commented on it was when they handed down the punishment for recruiting violations (Cheeseburger-gate) and made it clear that the illegal in person scouting was completely separate from what was being handed down.
Incidentally, the fact that they are separate investigations opens Michigan up to repeat offender status which means harsher penalties.
Not sure any of what I posted has to do with optimism.
I posted facts.
I guess I could have worded the last sentence differently. Repeat offender status opens up the possibilty of harsher penalties. It doesn't guarantee them.
The fact that this or anything else 'might' matter to the largely neutered NCAA makes you an optimist, of sorts.
I mean they did get some fairly real penalties over "Cheeseburger-gate" which was much less serious than Stalions chicanery.
NCAA issues penalty for Michigan football for 'burgergate,' U-M administration responds
Burgergate was little more than a nothing-burger. #GoBlue
wolverineswire.usatoday.com
Do you think the penalties will be less or more harsh than what UNC got for their multiple offenses?
Who cares what he says? There are a bunch of people who said they were paid to fly to games. Dig into Partridge firing as we know it was related. Also, simply explain who was the man on the sideline dressed as CMU coach, recording the game? How did he get access? It is shameful that CMU allowed this with no culpability.
Oh, I agree.
I was just doing a reality check that we will learn anything from Stalions in this show.
Anything not already in the public record (and there is plenty already out there to verify cheating) will come from the NCAA investigation (which is unfortunately a slow moving process)
What UNC offenses are you referring to?
Here, let me help you clarify:
Because I suspect you are referring to something that wasn't an NCAA violation.
Are you suggesting that an 18 year scheme to keep ineligible athletes eligible, and therefore influence competition is not an NCAA violation?
What about this one, which resulted in a post-season ban and 15 lost schollies?
UNC receives postseason ban, scholarship reductions
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill is responsible for multiple violations, including academic fraud, impermissible agent benefits, ineligible participation
www.ncaa.org
I find it hard to believe that a person who would blatantly cheat, lie and wantonly violate his sport's governing rules (he was on the scUM Staff) would lie in a documentary - you really think he would do that?
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The CMU HC formerly worked at scUM and knew Stallions personally. How disgraceful is it that the CMU HC wantonly violated NCAA Rules by assisting Stallions in this scheme and allowed him to pose (and hide) as a CMU Coach - then blatantly lied to his own administration that he didn't know who Stallions was when he absolutely knew Stallions at scUM.
Rather amusing to compare FIFA's (a real Rules and Sport Governance Organization) response to Canada's cheating (which is identical to scUM's cheating) to the NCAA's response to scUM's cheating. Took FIFA a day to severely sanction the defending Olympic Gold Medal Team for cheating and intentionally illegally scouting an upcoming opponent - the NCAA has done nothing to scUM despite factually knowing that scUM cheated and violated NCAA Rules regarding illegally scouting future opponents (the identical violation Canada was severely sanctioned for by FIFA).
Do tell, how do you ensure the integrity of a sport when there is no legitimate Governing Body that makes the Rules, makes sure they're respected and acts in the best interests of the integrity of the sport?
Probably accept as truth the words of the guy on scUM's staff who wantonly - and repeatedly - lied, cheated and violated the NCAA's rules? Makes sense.
It is not amusing at all. Armies of lawyers are making this country increasingly dysfunctional.
How about institutions, corporations, the court system itself and absurdist individuals acting out continuously are giving attorneys a mother load of opportunities making this country dysfunctional.
There was no 18 year scheme to keep athletes eligible. That was my point. Clearly you have no idea what was actually happening there. Was there academic fraud? Yes, which is 1000% unacceptable. Was it a scheme set up for athletics? Definitively not. Should the leadership in the athletic department been aware that these classes weren't legit? Probably, although that gets into a weird situation where I'm not sure I want athletics sticking their head into the curriculum of specific departments (even if for good reasons, that's bad optics).
100% agree that one was an issue (and UNC was wrong); that was related to tutors doing work for students (which is pretty common across many schools, I'm afraid) and illegal benefits from agents. But I know that wasn't the one you were referring to when you first brought it up.What about this one, which resulted in a post-season ban and 15 lost schollies?
UNC receives postseason ban, scholarship reductions
University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill is responsible for multiple violations, including academic fraud, impermissible agent benefits, ineligible participation
As it relates to Michigan, Michigan was cheating in a way that *directly* affected the competition on the field. Most NCAA violations are indirect (e.g. an agent buying jewelry for a player doesn't really affect his play on Saturday). Still wrong, but what Michigan did is a whole other level of cheating akin to illegally deflating footballs.
Ok. If you think athletes engaging in academic fraud over a long period of time doesn't affect competition and shouldn't be met with consequences, then there isn't much to discuss. This is the definition of 'institutional control'
So just to be clear, you think (hypothetically, as an example), that if an athlete cheats on a test to remain eligible without the knowledge of the coaching/support staff that the university is responsible for that? Seems like a fairly ridiculous position to take.
Athletics does not (and should not) be involved in policing what individual professors do for their classes. The lack of rigor in this department was a travesty. But it was not set up to help athletes and it was not known to the coaches/support staff beyond "these classes seem to be pretty easy". All universities have classes known to be pretty easy (at PSU Geosci 20 (Intro to Geology, aka "Rocks for Jocks") and Geosci 40 (Intro to Marine Geology, aka "Wet Rocks for Jocks") come to mind as ones I encountered in the mid 90s. The difference was those are real classes and the ones at UNC were not (which again, is completely unacceptable from a university standpoint, but had very little to do with athletics).
"an athlete?" No.
3100 over 18 years who took fake classes that existed on paper only, promoted by counselors that saw them as "key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible?" Absolutely the definition of Institutional Control.
On October 22, 2014, the report was released reporting that for 18 years, at least 3,100 students enrolled in what were described as "paper" classes, which were independent study classes that had no faculty involvement.[61] The report conveyed that "counselors saw the paper classes and the artificially high grades they yielded as key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible." The report named both Julius Nyang'oro and Debbie Crowder as facilitators of the practice.[62][63]
University of North Carolina academic-athletic scandal - Wikipedia
There is a ridiculous position here, but it's not mine.
Your position is contrary to the NCAA findings, just FYI. And it's 3100 students not 3100 athletes (although admittedly many athletes took these courses; we can talk more about why that is, if you like)"an athlete?" No.
3100 over 18 years who took fake classes that existed on paper only, promoted by counselors that saw them as "key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible?" Absolutely the definition of Institutional Control.
On October 22, 2014, the report was released reporting that for 18 years, at least 3,100 students enrolled in what were described as "paper" classes, which were independent study classes that had no faculty involvement.[61] The report conveyed that "counselors saw the paper classes and the artificially high grades they yielded as key to helping some student-athletes remain eligible." The report named both Julius Nyang'oro and Debbie Crowder as facilitators of the practice.[62][63]
University of North Carolina academic-athletic scandal - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
There is a ridiculous position here, but it's not mine.
Couple of further points here:
1) Paper classes/independent study are real things. I did one at PSU and another at UNC while in grad school. They generally take WAY more work than a regular class. Having said that, these were not conducted properly. That is the fault of Nyang'oro and Crowder (the department chair and his assistant), not of anyone in athletics (i.e. I heard the argument "they should have know these were "paper classes" as if paper classes are a bad thing; they are not)
2) Again, counselors know what courses are easier than others. Staying with my PSU EMS examples, counselors aren't going to recommend Geology 440 (very difficult class; when I had it was taught by Eric Barron) to an athlete unless they need it for their major. They might however recommend Geology 40 as it is considered to be a fairly easy class.
3) it cannot be expected practice (nor would it be a good idea) for athletics department staff to be actively looking into what the syllabus/course requirements are for every class on campus. They should be able to trust that individual departments/professors are doing their jobs. That part obviously failed here, at the fault of TWO people (not an indictment of the university at large).
