How important was Moorhead?

[summitlion1]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

 

[LaJolla Lion]

He certainly was huge, but who was the guy that recruited theses guys? Who was the HC that recoginized JoMo's talents? I wish him well, but the biggest reason for PSU turning around was the HC that can identify and recruit talent...players and coaches.

 

[Dr. Evel]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

It is important in my household, I can tell you that.

 

[Bob78]

He certainly was huge, but who was the guy that recruited theses guys? Who was the HC that recoginized JoMo's talents? I wish him well, but the biggest reason for PSU turning around was the HC that can identify and recruit talent...players and coaches.

Agree.
Moorhead was important because he fit Franklin's offensive philosophy. So he was vitally important because Franklin allowed him to be, which he did because their approaches meshed, and he was able to trust Moorhead in relatively short order.

And I love me some Moorhead (oh my!), but just as important, imo, was the transition to Trace at QB. Franklin knew that Hack (or any pocket QB) couldn't effectively run the style he wanted, and he also knew that he had to make a change at OC.

I give the vast majority of the credit to James, as you do, for having the vision for the O, for finding the right players and OC, and for making it all come together and producing high-end results. James' delegating to Moorhead and to Pry shows the type of leadership James provides; once he sets the vision, he knows he cannot execute without strong people around him who he can trust to carry out the plans.

I hope Moorhead has great success using that overall formula, as long as he stays out of the B1G!

 

[stormingnorm]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

Huge.

Folks can whistle through the graveyard all day and night - - - - but there is a reason why you have coaches - and why some are more successful than others.
And when you lose a good one - if you don't have a top-notch guy to take his place, it hurts.

How much will his departure hurt PSU?
Who knows, maybe Ricky Rahne will prove to be the next Bill Bellichick, and the net result will be a plus...... but if Rahne and the Offensive Staff do not prove to be Top-Notch (they also lost a top WR coach), it will be a very significant drop off.
I have a lot of trust that CJF has a good "call list" of potential coaching staff hires - and he's proven to have done a splendid job thus far in composing his staff.... hopefully that will continue (though the Rahne for Moorhead switch is the one, thus far, that causes me the greatest concern)

Thankfully (IMO) there is a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball (including the best O-Line group at PSU in at least a decade).... and I would expect a very productive offense in 2018 - even without J Moorhead.
Longer-term? Who knows?

 

[BBrown]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

INMO it was a perfect storm for him. Barkley comes into his own, Trace takes over at QB, OL, while still taking some hits is much better than the year before, Limgrover comes on board and the sanctions end.
Joe was a much, much needed shot in the arm but I think these so called football pundits are really selling Franklin short.

 

[psugisher]

He certainly was huge, but who was the guy that recruited theses guys? Who was the HC that recoginized JoMo's talents? I wish him well, but the biggest reason for PSU turning around was the HC that can identify and recruit talent...players and coaches.

Agreed.. crippling sanctions and 40 plus scholarship players in uniform by the end of 2015 but a head coach with a vision for the future and not afraid to make moves with the coaching staff to get where the program needed to be. Recruited some talented but even more importantly, tough minded kids that were ready for the type of challenge in front of them. Now that we're getting top talent, I just hope they have the same type of character the guys before them have shown but when I hear they're coming here because of their relationships with the coaches and the family environment, I'm encouraged.

 

[SR108]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

He was very important, and he was able to put an offense on the field that took advantage of strengths and minimized weaknesses. That doesn't mean that his loss will set us back. Ricky Rahne is a smart guy and he will have a much more balanced offense in terms of strengths. The OLine is no longer a weakness.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Agreed.. crippling sanctions and 40 plus scholarship players in uniform by the end of 2015 but a head coach with a vision for the future and not afraid to make moves with the coaching staff to get where the program needed to be. Recruited some talented but even more importantly, tough minded kids that were ready for the type of challenge in front of them. Now that we're getting top talent, I just hope they have the same type of character the guys before them have shown but when I hear they're coming here because of their relationships with the coaches and the family environment, I'm encouraged.

People forget the deep hole JF had to dig out of. 7 scholarship OL when he arrived, that is absurd.

 

[hereforthebeer]

I'm encouraged by the limited exposure we've had to Rahne, but he does have one tendency he needs to break. He seems to default to a single gadget-type play when he doesn't exactly know what to call. Shovel pass, jet sweep, etc. We ran those repeatedly and with little success in each game he called.

 

[Bob78]

Huge.

Folks can whistle through the graveyard all day and night - - - - but there is a reason why you have coaches - and why some are more successful than others.
And when you lose a good one - if you don't have a top-notch guy to take his place, it hurts.

How much will his departure hurt PSU?
Who knows, maybe Ricky Rahne will prove to be the next Bill Bellichick, and the net result will be a plus...... but if Rahne and the Offensive Staff do not prove to be Top-Notch (they also lost a top WR coach), it will be a very significant drop off.
I have a lot of trust that CJF has a good "call list" of potential coaching staff hires - and he's proven to have done a splendid job thus far in composing his staff.... hopefully that will continue (though the Rahne for Moorhead switch is the one, thus far, that causes me the greatest concern)

Thankfully (IMO) there is a ton of talent on the offensive side of the ball (including the best O-Line group at PSU in at least a decade).... and I would expect a very productive offense in 2018 - even without J Moorhead.
Longer-term? Who knows?

Good points about replacing Moorhead, even with an OC with a great understanding of the offensive philosophy. The approach to players, to game-planning, etc. differ in at least some respects from individual to individual. Can Rahne be as effective as Moorhead seemingly was? Hope so; I think Franklin thinks so or he would have gone in a different direction to replace Moorhead.
That said, we got some whispers as JoeMo was leaving that maybe he wasn't as great a communicator with his players as assumed. I don't know if that was true or not, but that trait is vital for long-term success, imo.

But I agree that the new OC dynamic will be an important and very interesting thing to watch this season.

 

[jrd23psu]

People are still trying to find any reason they can to avoid giving Franklin any credit. Joe Moorhead was responsible for the success of PSU. Saquon Barkley was responsible. After they win 10 games this year Trace McSorley will be the guy responsible.

The guy ultimately responsible for the success of the program is James Franklin. Is Joe Moorhead a hell of an OC? Of course he is. Is Saquon a generational talent? Yes. But Franklin recognized both of these guys when others didn't.

 

[lionroar88]

One coach does not a football team make. The HC has to surround themselves with quality assistants who know their roles and how to coach their respective positions. They also have to be able to know when they were wrong and make the necessary adjustments. Franklin is that coach, as he has proven. Moorehead doesn't come to PSU if not for Franklin, end of story. I also think Limegrover played a HUGE part in the offense's success. He had to coach the OL to Moorehead's offensive philosophy, which he did seamlessly. We'll see how much losing Moorehead hurts the offense, but if the Fiesta Bowl was any indication it doesn't appear to be that significant.

 

[Cletus11]

I'll give you a really good answer in about 6 months.

 

[WPB_lion]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

Moorhead was awesome at PSU. However, he stepped into a really good situation. We had one of the best QBs in PSU history, we had one of the most talented core of WRs in PSU history, we had one of the best receiving TE in PSU history, and we had one of the best Running Backs in PSU history. The only thing lacking on offense was a dominant Offensive Line. Sure Moorhead's offense was very successful and much more successful than the prior year's offense. However, any coach worth their salt should have turned that talent into a great offense and that is exactly what he did.

IMO, Moorhead needs to work on his play calling at the end of tight games as he gets too conservative and predictable (See USC).

 

[BBrown]

I'm encouraged by the limited exposure we've had to Rahne, but he does have one tendency he needs to break. He seems to default to a single gadget-type play when he doesn't exactly know what to call. Shovel pass, jet sweep, etc. We ran those repeatedly and with little success in each game he called.

I also thought they "forced" the Tommy Stevens package a little too much in the bowl game.

 

[sluggo72]

what was LJ sr Tweet either after the OSU game or after JMO went to MSU. I tried to find it, but cant.

 

[Kmase21]

Moorhead was an important piece, but it was Bill O'Brien and James Franklin that changed the program around.

 

[rem524]

The positive influence Moorhead had on the program doesn't just go away. The offense as it sits today has a lot of Moorhead in the foundation and that will continue. We will also (hopefully) start to see some Rahne contributions going forward.

 

[Cletus11]

The positive influence Moorhead had on the program doesn't just go away. The offense as it sits today has a lot of Moorhead in the foundation and that will continue. We will also (hopefully) start to see some Rahne contributions going forward.

Exactly...Rhane was tutored by JoeMo for the past 2 years and I am certain that JFF is not going to deviate a whole lot from that scheme as it obviously worked very well. The only real question is what type of game caller is Rhane as the basics of the offense remain the same and what really set JoeMo apart was his ability to adapt in game and find the weaknesses and continue to exploit them.

 

[Judge Smails]

Every year they will come up with a different way to discount what Penn State and Franklin are doing. For 2017, it was Chris Godwin, Penn State's "only deep threat", is gone so all of McSorley's "lucky" "50/50" balls weren't going to work anymore. Now it's that Barkley, Gesicki, and Hamilton (no fan or writer would have even known who he was coming into 2017) are gone along with JoMo so Penn State will struggle.

Rahne and Penn State ran through a Top 10 Washington defense in the Fiesta like shit through a goose. Over 500 yards of offense. Barkley was the best, but you do it in different ways. Sanders could easily match his 1300 yards rushing running the ball behind a better offensive line. Gesicki was great but a terrible blocker. We will find different ways to get the same or better production. When you are recruiting like we are recruiting and have the best strength program in the country and a great offensive system.....this train isn't going to slow down.

 

[SR108]

Every year they will come up with a different way to discount what Penn State and Franklin are doing. For 2017, it was Chris Godwin, Penn State's "only deep threat", is gone so all of McSorley's "lucky" "50/50" balls weren't going to work anymore. Now it's that Barkley, Gesicki, and Hamilton (no fan or writer would have even known who he was coming into 2017) are gone along with JoMo so Penn State will struggle.

Rahne and Penn State ran through a Top 10 Washington defense in the Fiesta like shit through a goose. Over 500 yards of offense. Barkley was the best, but you do it in different ways. Sanders could easily match his 1300 yards rushing running the ball behind a better offensive line. Gesicki was great but a terrible blocker. We will find different ways to get the same or better production. When you are recruiting like we are recruiting and have the best strength program in the country and a great offensive system.....this train isn't going to slow down.

IMO, the only thing that is still a question mark regarding Rahne is his ability to counterpunch on game day. A big part of Moorhead's success was his ability to see what the defense was doing and call plays that took advantage of what the defense was doing. We only have one game to go on, but so far so good in terms of Rahne's ability to do the same.

 

[GreggK]

I will say this, I found it insane that in big games, Moorhead had a habit of going away from what works.
Iowa is an example of doing what works and keeping it going. Specifically, getting the ball to the outside.
At Ohio State in the 2nd half, much to my astonishment, he kept trying to go up the middle and gave Barkley no space.
It made absolutely no sense at all.

Moorhead is a fantastic coach, no doubt. But lets not forget, he started his Penn State career on 3rd base.
He had a heisman candidate QB. A one in a generation Running back (whom I believe he misused)
2 NFL receivers in Godwin and Daesean Hamilton as well as Geiseki.

We will see what happens. Moorhead is a great coach but who hired him out of nowhere? Franklin.
So I trust that Franklin made the right decision again.

 

[ILLINOISLION]

I think Moorhead’s stubbornness cost us two games last year and cost Barkley NYC and a shot at The Heisman.

Ten toss sweeps to Barkley a game (with or without a second running back leading the play) and it’s a TOTALLY different O.

The McSorley / Barkley meeting at “x” and counting 1 1000 2 1000 3 1000 was WAY WAY WAY overused.

Just my $.02. I will be very interested as to MSU’s fans reaction to their new Head Coach as their season plays through.

 

[fairgambit]

Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan.

 

[olelion]

Not that I care tor this guy Fiutak, but this is a very spot on assessment of CJF

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/give-franklin-his-due-for-nittany-lions/ar-AAxAT4L

 

[NC2017]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

Mauti, B'OB and all the kids on the team who refused to abandon the program after the NCAA tried to kill us were the saviors of the program.

 

[rem524]

Success has many fathers. Failure is an orphan.

Agree. It's impossible to assign a percentage of the credit to Franklin, Moorhead, Barkley, McSorley, Gesicki, Hamilton, Howard and others. It took all of them to get the job done and the success would not have happened without all of the contributions.

Up here around Boston (and in the national media too), there's the discussion of Belichick or Brady. It's BOTH of them and lots of others too.

 

[BBrown]

Agree. It's impossible to assign a percentage of the credit to Franklin, Moorhead, Barkley, McSorley, Gesicki, Howard and others. It took all of them to get the job done and the success would not have happened without all of the contributions.

Up here around Boston (and in the national media too), there's the discussion of Belichick or Brady. It's BOTH of them and lots of others too.

Yep. and there is also a segment that seems to get over looked and thats us the fans. The ones that continued to follow the team and show up for games when the outlook was very, very bleak.

 

[psuro]

It is important in my household, I can tell you that.

Giving or receiving?

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

 

[Nitt1300]

CJF has, in my opinion, been underrated since he was hired. JoMo was a brilliant hire- by CJF. Recruiting has been outstanding-because of CJF. All Penn State needs to do is to keep him.

 

[danvillenit]

I think Moorhead was important to jumpstart an offense which was not adequate for PSU to get back into the top echelon. We are there now and I don’t think his departure will change that.

 

[ram2020]

I think Moorhead’s stubbornness cost us two games last year and cost Barkley NYC and a shot at The Heisman.

Ten toss sweeps to Barkley a game (with or without a second running back leading the play) and it’s a TOTALLY different O.

The McSorley / Barkley meeting at “x” and counting 1 1000 2 1000 3 1000 was WAY WAY WAY overused.

Just my $.02. I will be very interested as to MSU’s fans reaction to their new Head Coach as their season plays through.

I could not agree with this more. Whenever he had Barkley go out on a quick pitch Barkley ALWAYS got the edge and loosened the defense. Defenses were so reactive to that "mesh" point in the middle of the line that nobody defended outside. DE's in that ohio state game just repeatedly crashed down. Literally, another 5 quick pitches to barkley and we win that game. It was maddening.

 

[summitlion1]

Not that I care tor this guy Fiutak, but this is a very spot on assessment of CJF

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/give-franklin-his-due-for-nittany-lions/ar-AAxAT4L

Of course, being successful doesn't cure everything, but remembering that a big part of the problem in the Paterno era was that a football coach became more than a football coach, Franklin's doing just about everything right.

Wow!!!

 

[Cold Smoke]

According to this article, he saved the program. Of course, they fail to mention that before Moorhead came to Penn State, they were coming off of crippling sanctions, and were incredible thin, especially on the O line.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sa...b-mark-schlabach-believes-talks-msu-hype/amp/

Splitting credit between just these two... Franklin 80%/Moorhead 20%

 

[Obliviax]

I give a lot of credit to CJF on this one. This was a sea-change move for our offense after firing Donovan. CJF gave Moorhead full reign, which is tough to do for a hyper type A person. CJF wanted that kind of offense....

Moving forward, I am comfortable with Rahne. I love JoeMo, I disagree with some of his tactical moves (late tOSU, USC). I also like what Rahne is doing with a two back set, which may help in short yardage and/or misdirection.

 

[Hedonist1]

Don't think we miss a beat with new coordinator - hopefully, good riddance to the woeful RPO which resulted in the best RB in the country being tackled for loss to an extraordinarily ridicules level and probably cost him the Heisman.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

IMO, the only thing that is still a question mark regarding Rahne is his ability to counterpunch on game day. A big part of Moorhead's success was his ability to see what the defense was doing and call plays that took advantage of what the defense was doing. We only have one game to go on, but so far so good in terms of Rahne's ability to do the same.

Rahne will undoubtedly benefit from cutting his game management teeth with a 3rd year starter at QB. TM should help OCRR tremendously with his ability to be a coach on the field.

 

[Connorpozlee]

I think Moorhead was huge for the progression of the program and made it appealing to elite talent on the recruiting trail.
That said, continuing to hand the ball off to Barkley from a standstill on a three second delay was absolutely maddening to me. I get that you have your system and all that but for the love of god he could have changed it up a touch to exploit Barkley’s once in a lifetime talent.

 

[Player2BNamedL8r]

Not that I care tor this guy Fiutak, but this is a very spot on assessment of CJF

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb/give-franklin-his-due-for-nittany-lions/ar-AAxAT4L

Nah...he lost me when he wrote this: “he's turned out to be the perfect head coach to help rebrand and reboot the most unlikeable of programs after the most unthinkable of scandals.”

Yawn....yet another hack with another shot at our school disguised as a backhanded complement of our head coach.