What would you have done differently given that nobody was scared of Trace's arm? He faced 7 and 8 man fronts because Trace lacked precision and everyone knew it. JoeMo tried. Did you see what happened at Pitt? Temple? Michigan? Minnesota? He attempted a balanced offense consistent with his desired philosophy which would have won a Heisman for Saquan. It failed because he didn't have the QB to make it work. Barkley paid for it.
How many of you understand that Ciarroca sabotaged this program?
- Thread starter Rip_E_2_Joe_PA
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He was targeted by every defense because he was out best weapon, by far. Take him out of the game by keying on him and you have a chance.
JoMo should have used that and took advantage by running some counter plays. Fake it to SB on the right just like we started every RPO play and then hand it off to a slot back or tight end coming across the backfield running to the formation left. Inside reverse.
Run a few of these to keep the defense honest and not keying on SB.
I'm not saying Trace was good but he was infinitely better than Roberson. It took one series to see that.
I get what you are saying but he built the offense to the personnel not the other way around. Barkley's personal accolades suffered but the team was better for it.
What I am saying is that Roberson has the same physical skill set, nothing more. Slow release. limited arm strength. Etc. If Roberson played in the offense Trace played in with the players he played with, the results would have been close to identical.
No they would not have. As bad as Trace was you're making a ridiculous statement to try to prove a point. I honestly don't believe you or anyone is incapable of comprehending how nonsensical that is.
The only think nonsensical is your linear thinking. Trace wasn't bad. He wasn't good either. He was an average dual threat QB who played with multiple generational talents in an offense tailor made to his skills. Comparing a QB with roughly the same physical skillset who played one game in an offense he was not prepared to execute nor physically capable of running (just like Trace) at even a basic level means nothing.
"Roughly"--I guess that's as close as we're going to get to you admitting you were wrong.
Give it up. You are desperate. Read the book on Roberson. He is a run first dual threat who compares very favorably to Trace. The recruiting services said it. The staff have made the comparison. So have the press who have seen him in practice in the same offense. ≈ not =. No two players have exactly the same skillset but Trace and Roberson are very close. Context matters.
Context does matter but you don't seem to understand what you're actually saying. You're so fixated on the point in your mind that you're no longer able to be reasonable.
Apparently, the coaching staff UCONN isn't buying your elementary school scouting report. Lol
The biggest mistake I think JoMo made with Saquon is not introducing 2 RB sets. He used them at Oregon. You had Barkley and Sanders and I bet you could count the plays on one hand that they were on the field together. LBs couldn't cover him for long. Sanders running was below SB, but not by much. I believe it would have 1) improved the total run game and 2) creates more mismatches with Barkley as a receiver, which was his ticket to the Heisman along with K/PRs.
JoMo also changed the mesh point of his RPO and straight zone read plays when he got to MissSt. He took out the riding it the extra second (which caused half of Saquons negative yard runs and de facto created his habit for trying to turn everything into something more than a 1 yard gain).
If TR had similar capabilities as a QB, I think he would have gotten better offers than UConn. Perhaps I am wrong. I'd love to see TR have a great year at UConn. I just don't see it.
I don't think you do either.
You folks are something else. Comparing Taquan Roberson to Trace McSorely....Holy F-in $hit. Apparently nobody here has ever played an organized sport past 6th grade rec league.
Trace McSorely is Penn State's all-time leading passer and a multi year NFL backup with limited arm talent. Taquan Roberson has never started a football game above high school level.
Let's be real clear about a few things....
1. You'll never be all anything in any sport at any position without other good to great player around you. Good players make other players around them better. That's sports 101.
2. Performance matters, potential doesn't, but it has a place.
3. Physical attributes are much less important than folk make them out to be...They are made important because they are measurable. Intangibles are always more important than measurables.
4. You can't win 7 super bowls with just a great quarterback, you also need a great coach, great role players, all pro offensive linemen, HOF defensive personnel, an all-pro kicker, etc. This is how team sports works.
5. Being smart, durable and consistent in football is more important than running a 4.2 and benching 500.
Yes there are exceptions, but they are just that....exceptions. Calvin Johnson is an exception, they are far and few between, so don't even go there. BTW Megatron was wrought full of intangibles as well. He probably would have been a baller at 5'10" 4.5 as well.
Franklin hitched his wagon to Clifford, it was a mistake, it's not his first or his last.
Trace McSorely is Penn State's all-time leading passer and a multi year NFL backup with limited arm talent. Taquan Roberson has never started a football game above high school level.
Let's be real clear about a few things....
1. You'll never be all anything in any sport at any position without other good to great player around you. Good players make other players around them better. That's sports 101.
2. Performance matters, potential doesn't, but it has a place.
3. Physical attributes are much less important than folk make them out to be...They are made important because they are measurable. Intangibles are always more important than measurables.
4. You can't win 7 super bowls with just a great quarterback, you also need a great coach, great role players, all pro offensive linemen, HOF defensive personnel, an all-pro kicker, etc. This is how team sports works.
5. Being smart, durable and consistent in football is more important than running a 4.2 and benching 500.
Yes there are exceptions, but they are just that....exceptions. Calvin Johnson is an exception, they are far and few between, so don't even go there. BTW Megatron was wrought full of intangibles as well. He probably would have been a baller at 5'10" 4.5 as well.
Franklin hitched his wagon to Clifford, it was a mistake, it's not his first or his last.
What you are stuck on is apples to oranges. You are trying to infer inferiority based on an incompatible dataset.
#3, Intangibles are more important until the point where a player can't do what they are expected to do because of a talent deficiency. Intangibles are great until they aren't.
#4, Winning 7 Super Bowls requires a hell of a lot of cheating (4 of 7) in addition to everything else.
At the pro level almost all the athletes are the same, except for the few exception type guys. Maybe 12-20 of them in the entire league of 1500+ players.
Say what you want about the super bowls, the record book shows they won them.
Reality says they cheated, a lot. Pretty pathetic actually. At the end of the day, their accomplishments will always have the asterisk, and being O and 2 against Eli, who was the better QB, never mind his brother who was better than both by a country mile.
Please don't think Coach Wally represents anyone other than the voices in his head. He has.....how do I put this mildly.....a crush on Hack and BOB. Hence, CJF can do nothing right..... and the fact that Trace played rings around Hack has him chapped.
Any coach worth his salt would embrace an overachiever like Trace over an underachiever like Hack.
Franklin and Hack was a bad fit from day one. It's a shame Hack couldn't have left when O'Brien left. Who knows if things would have turned out better for him and it's not Franklin's fault either but Hack/Franklin was never going to work.
That said this entire discussion about Roberson is one of the most insane things I've ever seen regardless of anyone's thoughts on Franklin, Trace, Hack or O'Brien
Your fifteen years of coaching 'competitive' midget football at some elementary school in middle of nowhere PA is impressive.
Yes it is. And yes, Hack should have transferred. I am glad he didn't because we would have seen repeat 3 and 9 records if he hadn't but that is me being selfish because we would look like Tennessee post Fulmer otherwise.
And even that would give me 15 years experience over you. 1. change your screen name again. 2. Get back on your meds.
In a sense, Hack did transfer. To the New York Jets. Then to the Oakland Raiders. Then to the Eagles. Then to the Bengals. Then to the Memphis Express. The one coach who stayed away from him was the one who knew him best....Bill O'Brien. Yep, CJF ruined the Hope Diamond.
These guys make a lot of money so I think it's fair to question their performance. That said, sabotaged is a strong word.
Actually, the whole team would have benefited. First, any counters would have gained huge yardage since opposing Ds were so focused on Barkley. Then Barkley could have gotten some big gainers, maybe a couple for TDs. And such running success would have really opened up the passing game. Not to mention helping the Oline blocking by forcing the D line to play their positions instead of full pursuit of Barkley. Throw in forcing opposing Ds to spend time in game prep on defending the counters.
Probably win a couple more games over those two years. And make the playoffs once. And who knows how that may have affected recruiting.
I never said sabatoge was his intent. But it was the result of his absence. His fatherwas quite ill. Franklin has remained mum on the matter out of respect however the Douche HC of Minnesota has played it negatively and Ciarrocca classlessly has remained silent. Minny and Iowa need an ass whipping in 2022.
Sabotage, by its very definition, declares intent.
Stop using logic--it's apparently frowned upon here
If you sabotage something or someone it's the intended result...
Trace in the 2015 Gator Bowl vs GA replacing Hack vs Roberson replacing Clifford vs Iowa last year. Big difference in performance yet similar situations.
Also, even if we give you the leniency in saying Trace and Roberson have identical skill sets. Roberson would never had produced the results Trace achieved. Why? You said it....moxie aka as grit, determination and leadership. The NFL saw that but also saw talent you fail to see.
Last year, around this time, someone was posting how Theo Johnson was better and than Pat F & Mike G already, which is comical.
Some folks have a hard time distinguishing reality from possibility and make no mistake, they are vastly different things. What a subscription based recruit ranking service coupled with one's size and speed make them is vastly different from someone who has started, produced, received accolades for performance and have been drafted by people who get paid to determine who good football players are is so diametrically opposite it's amazing a person could have a difficult time differentiating them. It wreeks of lack of sports knowledge and is an opinion based conclusion devoid of factual performance data.
Some folks have a hard time distinguishing reality from possibility and make no mistake, they are vastly different things. What a subscription based recruit ranking service coupled with one's size and speed make them is vastly different from someone who has started, produced, received accolades for performance and have been drafted by people who get paid to determine who good football players are is so diametrically opposite it's amazing a person could have a difficult time differentiating them. It wreeks of lack of sports knowledge and is an opinion based conclusion devoid of factual performance data.
If you want to see what MY thinks of the TE position, he didn't have a single one drafted during his run at Oklahoma State. In fact, that last last tight ended drafted at The Oklahoma State University was Brandon Pettigrew. MY's preferred approach isn't much different than Mike Gundy's (interesting factoid, James Franklin once replaced Gundy and the Twerps WR coach). From an evolutionary perspective, MY expanded the offense Gundy installed at The Oklahoma State University and picked up a few gimmicks such as the RPO working under Kevin Wilson and Ryan Day at Ohio State and at Texas. We saw a lot of the gimmicky stuff that anyone expected, the question is why? I would assume it was due to the lack of a true deep receiver or limited arm talent.
One of the great injustices of the NFL draft in the past 5 years was Josh Rosen being selected in the early first round while Trace McSorely was barely even selected. If McSorely was barely worth a draft pick neither was Rosen. Any advantage Rosen had over McSorely in arm talent, was negated by Trace's superior grit and leadership, yet why was Rosen being viewed so highly and McSorely not? Rosen was 4 inches taller and 25 pounds heavier but I'm not aware of circumstances that have proven to show that such items would make one football player better than another, when their actual performance shows otherwise.
McSorely was statistically better both from a passing and winning standpoint, significantly so in the wins category, yet for some reason scouts, admin and analysts felt Rosen had this super huge upside, just like his 5 star ranking out of high school. It was a perception not a reality. Their final season college stats are below.
People need to pump the brakes on potential. Every "big time" college football program has great athletes with potential at positions like LB, DE, TE and those positions which athletic freakish bodies dominate those roster spots. Alabama and Ohio State have 4 Theo Johnson type tight ends, they hope one of them works out and lives up to their potential but the coaches know the odds are slim, fans, not so much. Jeremey Ruckert, in theory was always better than Pat F per the pundits, except he really wasn't better than Pat F and performance bears that out significantly, in fact it isn't even close. It's funny how people buy into the whole content thing, but it's a reality, see politics.
Trace
Josh
McSorely was statistically better both from a passing and winning standpoint, significantly so in the wins category, yet for some reason scouts, admin and analysts felt Rosen had this super huge upside, just like his 5 star ranking out of high school. It was a perception not a reality. Their final season college stats are below.
People need to pump the brakes on potential. Every "big time" college football program has great athletes with potential at positions like LB, DE, TE and those positions which athletic freakish bodies dominate those roster spots. Alabama and Ohio State have 4 Theo Johnson type tight ends, they hope one of them works out and lives up to their potential but the coaches know the odds are slim, fans, not so much. Jeremey Ruckert, in theory was always better than Pat F per the pundits, except he really wasn't better than Pat F and performance bears that out significantly, in fact it isn't even close. It's funny how people buy into the whole content thing, but it's a reality, see politics.
Trace
| 284 | 427 | 66.5 | 3,570 | 8.4 | 28 | 10 | 153.7 |
Josh
| 283 | 452 | 62.6 | 3,756 | 8.3 | 26 | 10 | 147.0 |
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Stop. Iowa’s chance of winning with Clifford staying was very low. When Levis transferred, it was imperative for Clifford to stay healthy. PSU had 50 total yards on 46 plays with Roberson. PSU had 237 yards midway through the second quarter with Clifford.
For you to say that Iowa had a really good chance of winning even if Clifford stayed healthy because of adjustments, is intellectually dishonest. PSU had to play an inexperienced backup QB at Iowa. Going into the season, that was the number one issue PSU had. Clifford had to get more reps than normal due to a new offensive coordinator. All win probability stat programs had PSU with an 85% win probability at the time of Clifford injury. Argue all the other JF issues. I would probably agree with you several to many times. But saying Iowa had a pretty good chance of winning if Clifford stays healthy is beyond idiotic.
Also, don’t ignore the impact that losing Mustipher to a cheap shot. Once he went down Iowa had a better run game and more time to throw. And losing our two best players in that game impacted the whole season.
I agree, but I wanted to stay with just the QB. Also, very few adjustments are revolutionary. Guaranteed the offensive scheme MY uses has counters to those adjustments. At halftime and an experienced QB, PSU would have been able to counter. With the backup QB that had no experience, not easy to do. Then you factor in player confidence without Clifford which is hard to quantify. PSU had won I believe 10 straight coming in to that game. Confidence was probably sky high, that injury also affects psyche.
