How many of you understand that Ciarroca sabotaged this program?

[lowhandicapper]

I agree, but I wanted to stay with just the QB. Also, very few adjustments are revolutionary. Guaranteed the offensive scheme MY uses has counters to those adjustments. At halftime and an experienced QB, PSU would have been able to counter. With the backup QB that had no experience, not easy to do. Then you factor in player confidence without Clifford which is hard to quantify. PSU had won I believe 10 straight coming in to that game. Confidence was probably sky high, that injury also affects psyche.

The giant point coming across in the last few posts, as you contend, is that the least important thing in football is the talent, because everyone has it at the highest levels of their sport. Some just know how to use it better than others. It's a given that the top 2-3 teams in any college or professional conference or division are going to have somewhat similar talent. It only matters when there is a huge discrepancy in it between teams. When teams are relatively similar with regard to such, all the other stuff matters way more.
When you reach a professional level or even top college level the talent is pretty similar. Most of the stuff comes down to planning, psyche, confidence, experience, continuity, knowhow, smarts, adjustments, etc.
So here's the trick to all of this, when you're good at all those intangible things I mentioned above, you can take a player that maybe has C+ talent and he may be able to play at A- performance level. It's why guys often produce completely different, better or worse, when they get traded or leave a team in free agency.

 

[Obliviax]

The giant point coming across in the last few posts, as you contend, is that the least important thing in football is the talent, because everyone has it at the highest levels of their sport. Some just know how to use it better than others. It's a given that the top 2-3 teams in any college or professional conference or division are going to have somewhat similar talent. It only matters when there is a huge discrepancy in it between teams. When teams are relatively similar with regard to such, all the other stuff matters way more.
When you reach a professional level or even top college level the talent is pretty similar. Most of the stuff comes down to planning, psyche, confidence, experience, continuity, knowhow, smarts, adjustments, etc.
So here's the trick to all of this, when you're good at all those intangible things I mentioned above, you can take a player that maybe has C+ talent and he may be able to play at A- performance level. It's why guys often produce completely different, better or worse, when they get traded or leave a team in free agency.

Why is recruiting so important if it just comes down to planning? The reality is that it all is co-dependent. God-given talent, hard work, preparation, planning, discipline and luck all come into play.

Back to the OP, I don't think C "sabotaged" the program but his move could not have come at a worse time. With COVID and substantial health issues at both the OL and RB (and bad luck with the Indy call going their way and not ours) was a perfect storm of a dumpster fire. The BS the state of PA made the school and program really screwed up C's ability to put into place a scheme, evaluate talent, create a team and interact with the push and pull of other coaches. I am sure that contributed to a lot of infighting between CJF and C.

In the end, you just have to hope and trust that CJF made the right decision when MY was made available and he hired him to replace C.

 

[The Spin Meister]

I agree, but I wanted to stay with just the QB. Also, very few adjustments are revolutionary. Guaranteed the offensive scheme MY uses has counters to those adjustments. At halftime and an experienced QB, PSU would have been able to counter. With the backup QB that had no experience, not easy to do. Then you factor in player confidence without Clifford which is hard to quantify. PSU had won I believe 10 straight coming in to that game. Confidence was probably sky high, that injury also affects psyche.

As did the Mustipher injury. The D knew it was up them to hold on to the lead and win the game. The offense was gone. But losing their best player, their leader did serious damage to their confidence. It also affected their depth which led to a tired D giving up the lead the end.

I bring this up because it’s not just losing Clifford and having a bad backup in the game that cost us the win. When people try to analyze the game and put it all on Roberson they ignoring significant data.

 

[The Spin Meister]

The giant point coming across in the last few posts, as you contend, is that the least important thing in football is the talent, because everyone has it at the highest levels of their sport. Some just know how to use it better than others. It's a given that the top 2-3 teams in any college or professional conference or division are going to have somewhat similar talent. It only matters when there is a huge discrepancy in it between teams. When teams are relatively similar with regard to such, all the other stuff matters way more.
When you reach a professional level or even top college level the talent is pretty similar. Most of the stuff comes down to planning, psyche, confidence, experience, continuity, knowhow, smarts, adjustments, etc.
So here's the trick to all of this, when you're good at all those intangible things I mentioned above, you can take a player that maybe has C+ talent and he may be able to play at A- performance level. It's why guys often produce completely different, better or worse, when they get traded or leave a team in free agency.

Likely true for the top three or four. And even true when evenly matched teams line up. It showed with Joe’s record of beating teams with superior talent.

But PSU doesn’t have the depth of those teams. Any injury to key players is impactful for us, not so for those few. Same with graduation, transfers, missed recruits. Losing Fields hurt us for two or three years. Same with others over the years. So we are in position of having to rebuild after a great year or two while the truly elite simply reload.

 

[lowhandicapper]

Why is recruiting so important if it just comes down to planning?

Because you must at least be in the same ballpark as your competitors. If your chief competitor is landing all 4 stars you have to recruit players that can perform at like levels. That's all. Let's not overcomplicate this. If you recruit at Rutgers level you can't expect to perform at Ohio State level. But sans 2-3 schools the next 30 teams all recruit basically at the same level. Which makes all the other stuff more dependent than talent itself.

 

[lowhandicapper]

Because you must at least be in the same ballpark as your competitors. If your chief competitor is landing all 4 stars you have to recruit players that can perform at like levels. That's all. Let's not overcomplicate this. If you recruit at Rutgers level you can't expect to perform at Ohio State level. But sans 2-3 schools the next 30 teams all recruit basically at the same level. Which makes all the other stuff more dependent than talent itself.

The top 3-5 teams each year have very similar talent. One player or coach or situation or play typically separates them.
The same can be said for the next 30 teams 6-35, then the next 50 36-85 and so on. That's why when two really good teams play it comes down to one play or one series or lucky situation. This is proven time after time, season after season.

 

[Obliviax]

Because you must at least be in the same ballpark as your competitors. If your chief competitor is landing all 4 stars you have to recruit players that can perform at like levels. That's all. Let's not overcomplicate this. If you recruit at Rutgers level you can't expect to perform at Ohio State level. But sans 2-3 schools the next 30 teams all recruit basically at the same level. Which makes all the other stuff more dependent than talent itself.

that's right...so who is a better assistant coach? the one that lands five star kids but doesn't teach the game as well or one that lands three star kids and is a great position coach?

I don't think you can separate them TBH. it is "all of the above". it starts with having great physical talent and goes from there. The best coaching isn't going to get me to start at left tackle for PSU. Ain't gonna happen. There is a lot to it. I always crack up when a coach wins coach of the year and gets fired two years late. What, they forgot how to coach suddenly? A coach can only bend fate so far. As I stated earlier there is god given talent, work ethic, discipline, willingness to learn, off-the-field preparation, practice preparation, off/on season preparation, diet, grades, psychology...........and luck.

 

[lowhandicapper]

The best coaching isn't going to get me to start at left tackle for PSU. Ain't gonna happen.

That's because you don't have "like" talent to Michigan's starting left tackle.
You're making my point. However Penn State does in fact have a similar talent level at left tackle to Michigan.
I agree that all things matter however to varying degrees.
If Ohio State has had more guys drafted that Alabama in the last 20 years, which they have, how come Alabama has 6 national titles and Ohio State only 2?
Because at the highest level, your weakness is more important than your strength.
How many coaches on Penn State's staff would you consider better than any coaches on Alabama or Ohio State's staff? Seriously, how many?
How many times in the last decade has Penn State had a better special teams unit than Ohio State?
Has Penn State ever had a coaching staff comparable to Alabama's?
Does Penn State have better facilities than Clemson?
When Penn State had better top end talent than Ohio State 2016-2017 seasons how come they could barely beat them, the one time in decade+ on a once a lifetime play?
How come they still lost to inferior talented teams like Michigan State and Pitt?

 

[Sooner Lion]

If not explain this....

5 offensive coordinators in 8 years. A head coach that wants to be friends with his players. The lack of a "let's dominate up front" attitude. A gimmicky RPO offensive where you basically take your guy the way he wants to go. Icing your own kicker. Blowing double digit leads well into the 4th quarter. Calling a running play on 4th and 5. LBers that spend 3-4 years in the program and still did not learn to wrap up. Not having a backup QB ready to play on the road. Scoring a TD, when you could have run out the clock. Should I go on?

This is what has sabotaged the program.

 

[lowhandicapper]

5 offensive coordinators in 8 years. A head coach that wants to be friends with his players. The lack of a "let's dominate up front" attitude. A gimmicky RPO offensive where you basically take your guy the way he wants to go. Icing your own kicker. Blowing double digit leads well into the 4th quarter. Calling a running play on 4th and 5. LBers that spend 3-4 years in the program and still did not learn to wrap up. Not having a backup QB ready to play on the road. Scoring a TD, when you could have run out the clock. Should I go on?

This is what has sabotaged the program.

Harsh.
Truth.
We all make mistakes.
Let me add another mistake made....Rahne over Gattis.
Everyone needs to get better.
Regardless of coaching, there is a point in games like the Illinois debacle where players have to take over the game. The coaches can't play for them.
Franklin is the right guy for Penn State, however don't expect him to be Nick Saban.

 

[lazydave841]

made....Rahne over Gattis.

This is a push. Neither were ready in my book. They both had the JoMo playbook without the nuances. Neither would have been at PSU in '20 is my guess.

I'll be curious what playbook Gattis takes to Miami. Cristobal had JoMo the last 2 years.

 

[lowhandicapper]

This is a push. Neither were ready in my book. They both had the JoMo playbook without the nuances. Neither would have been at PSU in '20 is my guess.

I'll be curious what playbook Gattis takes to Miami. Cristobal had JoMo the last 2 years.

While I tend to agree it relatively a push, Gattis got coached up at Bama, made a playoff appearance as an OC in Michigan and got a better, well at least I consider the Miami job a better gig, job off it. Rahne was an OC at D1 level for 2 years and is now out of D1 football. Gattis has way better trajectory and performance at this point since that move, I have to give the edge to Gattis, not to mention his recruiting prowess.

 

[BOGDANOVICH]

Is it possible the other UConn QBs are not very good?

Bingo. You can't use UConn as a metric for anything. It is the worst program in D1. The coaches are desperate people looking for desperate solutions. That Roberson may get the nod there means nothing.

 

[lazydave841]

While I tend to agree it relatively a push, Gattis got coached up at Bama, made a playoff appearance as an OC in Michigan and got a better, well at least I consider the Miami job a better gig, job off it. Rahne was an OC at D1 level for 2 years and is now out of D1 football. Gattis has way better trajectory and performance at this point since that move, I have to give the edge to Gattis, not to mention his recruiting prowess.

Rahne is a D1 coach at ODU. They aren't some great school but they are D1.

No argument that Gattis is a better recruiter, but his offenses at Michigan weren't any better than what Rahne produced in his time as OC. You may say "uhm, '21 Michigan just went to the playoff!" My reply to that is that was Harbaughs offense.

Still, I don't think Rahne would be on the short list for any top 25 OCs if he were available this off season so Gattis has that going for him.

Miami OC via Michigan OC coming off a playoff appearance is far from an improvement. Michigan has a better likelihood of returning to the playoff than Miami has of making it, but that's just my hunch.

 

[lowhandicapper]

Rahne is a D1 coach at ODU. They aren't some great school but they are D1.

No argument that Gattis is a better recruiter, but his offenses at Michigan weren't any better than what Rahne produced in his time as OC. You may say "uhm, '21 Michigan just went to the playoff!" My reply to that is that was Harbaughs offense.

Still, I don't think Rahne would be on the short list for any top 25 OCs if he were available this off season so Gattis has that going for him.

Miami OC via Michigan OC coming off a playoff appearance is far from an improvement. Michigan has a better likelihood of returning to the playoff than Miami has of making it, but that's just my hunch.

As I said, it's relatively a push but Gattis definitely has the edge.
It doesn't matter what your opinion of Michigan's offense is, Gattis is the OC of record on a playoff team.....significant career accomplishment. More than KC, JoeMo & RR can say. Additionally Michigan has really only had 2 significantly national relevant seasons in my adult lifetime, 1999 and last season, while the Miami Hurricane program is the second most dominant overall program in my lifetime to Alabama. So to me being at Miami, don't forget about the location and lifestyle, is a huge upgrade in my eyes. I can't think of one metric in which I would see a coaching job at Michigan above the like at Miami.

If you asked head coaches of top 20 teams which coordinators who would possibly be on their short list to hire, I'm sure Gattis would be on many lists and I doubt Rahne would be on any. Gattis just went from Penn State to Alabama to Michigan to Miami, four of the most prestigious football schools in the land. Rahne lasted 2 years in the pressure cooker, now he's at the FCS level. That isn't much of a push if you quantify the accomplishments.

 

[lazydave841]

It doesn't matter what your opinion of Michigan's offense is, Gattis is the OC of record on a playoff team.

Going to the playoff and literally doing nothing isn't a good look either. And if Gattis shows up in Miami in the JoMo spread and no pin and pull power run game, it's going to forever be obvious that his '21 season he's on record for truly wasn't his.

Leaving a playoff team for a team that's only won 10 games once in 19 years (aka move to ACC) isn't great. Miami's '81-'03 run was awesome and dominant, but they've done nothing close since. Recency matters and Michigan is way hotter than Miami in '22.

Not sure why you added the final paragraph; it's practically what I said and we agree.

 

[lowhandicapper]

Going to the playoff and literally doing nothing isn't a good look either. And if Gattis shows up in Miami in the JoMo spread and no pin and pull power run game, it's going to forever be obvious that his '21 season he's on record for truly wasn't his.

Leaving a playoff team for a team that's only won 10 games once in 19 years (aka move to ACC) isn't great. Miami's '81-'03 run was awesome and dominant, but they've done nothing close since. Recency matters and Michigan is way hotter than Miami in '22.

Not sure why you added the final paragraph; it's practically what I said and we agree.

Look, trying to diminish the accomplishment of being a OC on a playoff team, doesn't really work. He did it, it happened, it doesn't matter the reason or who helped him, its a resume building accomplishment. Did Bill Obrein get Bama to the playoff because he's the OC? Of course not, Bama could get their just fine without him.
The rest of the stuff about Gattis is just speculation. If we are playing that game then what if he leads Miami to #1 in total offense. I'm not aware of human who would choose living in Ann Arbor over living in Miami if given the equal opportunity, but I'm sure there are a few.
USC hasn't been relevant since roughly the Miami years as well, its a better job than Michigan too, see current the situation.

 

[lazydave841]

Look, trying to diminish the accomplishment of being a OC on a playoff team, doesn't really work. He did it, it happened, it doesn't matter the reason or who helped him, its a resume building accomplishment. Did Bill Obrein get Bama to the playoff because he's the OC? Of course not, Bama could get their just fine without him.
The rest of the stuff about Gattis is just speculation. If we are playing that game then what if he leads Miami to #1 in total offense. I'm not aware of human who would choose living in Ann Arbor over living in Miami if given the equal opportunity, but I'm sure there are a few.
USC hasn't been relevant since roughly the Miami years as well, its a better job than Michigan too, see current the situation.

If Gattis leads Miami to #1 offense then I'll give him the kudos. All I'm saying is that he made at best a one notch below lateral move. The weather and all that other stuff is irrelevant and simply certain fans justifying that Miami or USC is better.

If so, why has Miami been average since Coker? Not one decent coach has been interested in South Beach and Cuban hottest to take the job and win title #6?

What about SoCal? Sucked essentially since Pete left save for, lucky us, one season. Better recruiting than Miami and less competition yet nobody worth a damn has taken it (until now, of course but let's see how Riley does).

Did Gattis entertain the Miami offer because Harbaugh was talking to the Vikings or was he basically told "it'd be in your best interest to take another gig once offered"?

Coordinator of the years don't tend to make less than lateral moves. They usually get big promotions whether deserving or not.

 

[lowhandicapper]

If Gattis leads Miami to #1 offense then I'll give him the kudos. All I'm saying is that he made at best a one notch below lateral move. The weather and all that other stuff is irrelevant and simply certain fans justifying that Miami or USC is better.

If so, why has Miami been average since Coker? Not one decent coach has been interested in South Beach and Cuban hottest to take the job and win title #6?

What about SoCal? Sucked essentially since Pete left save for, lucky us, one season. Better recruiting than Miami and less competition yet nobody worth a damn has taken it (until now, of course but let's see how Riley does).

Did Gattis entertain the Miami offer because Harbaugh was talking to the Vikings or was he basically told "it'd be in your best interest to take another gig once offered"?

Coordinator of the years don't tend to make less than lateral moves. They usually get big promotions whether deserving or not.

Difference of opinion. Riley would never leave Oklahoma for Michigan. Not a chance, not even money could make that happen.
Michigan is living off a record that by in large part was made prior to 1980, in a tremendously weak two team conference. That's a truth. Winningest team in football history, great, awesome.
Get this, since 1980 Penn State and Michigan have had 16 seasons each of double digit wins. PSU has 3 national titles (yes I recognize 1994 as a split) and Michigan has one (which was a split).
Michigan's recent profile is not better than Penn State's.

 

[lazydave841]

Difference of opinion. Riley would never leave Oklahoma for Michigan. Not a chance, not even money could make that happen.
Michigan is living off a record that by in large part was made prior to 1980, in a tremendously weak two team conference. That's a truth. Winningest team in football history, great, awesome.
Get this, since 1980 Penn State and Michigan have had 16 seasons each of double digit wins. PSU has 3 national titles (yes I recognize 1994 as a split) and Michigan has one (which was a split).
Michigan's recent profile is not better than Penn State's.

Unless you know Riley personally that's a stretch because money moves people. Still, I'm probably inclined to agree moreso because I think Riley realized how good he had it in the Big 12. He wouldn't have left OU if they didn't agree to go to the SEC and now he's in the second most undesirable position: staking your claim as a conference champion against the Buckeyes.

First, of course, Bama (where coaches get fired for it with a national title under your belt).

And don't get me wrong, fućk Michigan. I'm only saying that coming off a playoff appearance is a better spot to be than Miami who just let go another hopeful coach because it's a hard place to win without cheating. Maybe NIL changes that, but until it does...

'94 PSU is a champion in my book.

 

[marshall23]

As I said, it's relatively a push but Gattis definitely has the edge.
It doesn't matter what your opinion of Michigan's offense is, Gattis is the OC of record on a playoff team.....significant career accomplishment. More than KC, JoeMo & RR can say. Additionally Michigan has really only had 2 significantly national relevant seasons in my adult lifetime, 1999 and last season, while the Miami Hurricane program is the second most dominant overall program in my lifetime to Alabama. So to me being at Miami, don't forget about the location and lifestyle, is a huge upgrade in my eyes. I can't think of one metric in which I would see a coaching job at Michigan above the like at Miami.

If you asked head coaches of top 20 teams which coordinators who would possibly be on their short list to hire, I'm sure Gattis would be on many lists and I doubt Rahne would be on any. Gattis just went from Penn State to Alabama to Michigan to Miami, four of the most prestigious football schools in the land. Rahne lasted 2 years in the pressure cooker, now he's at the FCS level. That isn't much of a push if you quantify the accomplishments.

Gattis may or may not be an offensive guru. He is not the most popular choice of every head coach around.
I doubt he is endorsed by Nick Saban for one. If he doesn't succeed at Miami, his path to being a HC will likely close. He's not parted ways on cordial basis in PSU, Alabama, Maryland or Michigan. Now to be fair......the problem could be all those places and HCs and not Josh.

 

[marshall23]

Rahne is a D1 coach at ODU. They aren't some great school but they are D1.

No argument that Gattis is a better recruiter, but his offenses at Michigan weren't any better than what Rahne produced in his time as OC. You may say "uhm, '21 Michigan just went to the playoff!" My reply to that is that was Harbaughs offense.

Still, I don't think Rahne would be on the short list for any top 25 OCs if he were available this off season so Gattis has that going for him.

Miami OC via Michigan OC coming off a playoff appearance is far from an improvement. Michigan has a better likelihood of returning to the playoff than Miami has of making it, but that's just my hunch.

You are correct in that 21 was a heavy dose of vintage Harbaugh and just a dash of "speed in space."

 

[lowhandicapper]

You are correct in that 21 was a heavy dose of vintage Harbaugh and just a dash of "speed in space."

Yeah, that's because that is the personnel Michigan had to work with. The way the team was built. In other words it's an amazing job by their offensive coordinator who came from 3 straight RPO systems to assimilate to an entirely different style of play and turn the garbage that offense had been for years into a playoff team in just two seasons. Sounds like top work to me.

Perspective

 

[marshall23]

Yeah, that's because that is the personnel Michigan had to work with. The way the team was built. In other words it's an amazing job by their offensive coordinator who came from 3 straight RPO systems to assimilate to an entirely different style of play and turn the garbage that offense had been for years into a playoff team in just two seasons. Sounds like top work to me.

Perspective

I credit Harbaugh as well.

 

[lowhandicapper]

I credit Harbaugh as well.

A new coordinator has to work with the players he is given and mold himself to wishes of the head coach philosophically. Michigan's offense stunk for a number of years with Mr. Harbaugh as head coach, it nearly lead to them parting ways. He brings in a new coordinator and in his second year gets Michigan to their first playoff birth and a conference championship. That's significant. I think you have to give Gattis a lot of credit, maybe more than Harbaugh, who hadn't been able to do up to that point with a vast array of resources including good coaches, tons of free capital and top recruiting classes.

 

[marshall23]

A new coordinator has to work with the players he is given and mold himself to wishes of the head coach philosophically. Michigan's offense stunk for a number of years with Mr. Harbaugh as head coach, it nearly lead to them parting ways. He brings in a new coordinator and in his second year gets Michigan to their first playoff birth and a conference championship. That's significant. I think you have to give Gattis a lot of credit, maybe more than Harbaugh, who hadn't been able to do up to that point with a vast array of resources including good coaches, tons of free capital and top recruiting classes.

Gattis was in his third year. There's plenty of credit to spread around when you win. No one at Michigan was being touted as a coaching genius in 2019 or 2020......not Gattis nor Harbaugh. I'll go with Jim Harbaugh's track record in football.....player and coach at all levels. Fans and the media jump on sudden or momentary success.
Gattis may or may not be a great coach.....for me at least, not ready to anoint him just yet.

 

[lazydave841]

Yeah, that's because that is the personnel Michigan had to work with. The way the team was built. In other words it's an amazing job by their offensive coordinator who came from 3 straight RPO systems to assimilate to an entirely different style of play and turn the garbage that offense had been for years into a playoff team in just two seasons. Sounds like top work to me.

Perspective

Calling BS here.

They ran the JoMo system in '19 and '20 with players Gattis had no hand in recruiting.

Why the sudden shift when his kids were in years 2 and 3?

Harbaugh's job was on the line.

 

[lowhandicapper]

Calling BS here.

They ran the JoMo system in '19 and '20 with players Gattis had no hand in recruiting.

Why the sudden shift when his kids were in years 2 and 3?

Harbaugh's job was on the line.

Gattis is the only variable on that offense. Draw your own conclusion.

You're exactly right, Gattis had to mold his entire system to players he didn't necessarily want or fit his system the way he'd like. He had to work his plan and play calls and personnel on what was given to him not selected by him.

Its hard to blame Jim for 2021 when history shows it didn't work right for him every other year he was there. Then all the sudden......Playoffs? We talking about playoffs? Jim must have had a come to Jesus with the football Gods.

 

[diontechristmas]

I had high hopes for Roberson but he looked small on the field and didn’t show much arm strength. I thought he would end up at a school like James Madison, university of Delaware, etc. He was never going to be a starter at Penn State.

Delaware and JMU are both way better than UCONN

 

[wilbury]

Bad coaching yes but you are giving them too much credit for Iowa. Iowa was within a score before Clifford's injury actually impacted the game, had momentum and their offensive and defensive adjustments were working. It is all hypothetical, but they had about a pretty good chance of winning without the injury much less throwing in a run first dual threat QB even if he were prepared.

There you go with this narrative again. It was two scores when Clifford got hurt. To act like momentum didn't change with his injury is flat our wrong. Momentum impacts the defense too.

 

[marshall23]

There you go with this narrative again. It was two scores when Clifford got hurt. To act like momentum didn't change with his injury is flat our wrong. Momentum impacts the defense too.

Coach Wally decides when and how a game is impacted. It's all metrics

 

[Wallace Breen]

There you go with this narrative again. It was two scores when Clifford got hurt. To act like momentum didn't change with his injury is flat our wrong. Momentum impacts the defense too.

The facts say otherwise. He was tackled. Walked off the field. Iowa drove the length for a TD. All of that happened before his injury was known so...you are just plain wrong.

 

[LandoComando]

So did Roberson get hurt of benched. 1/2 for 10 yards is better than I expected honestly.

 

[lazydave841]

So did Roberson get hurt of benched. 1/2 for 10 yards is better than I expected honestly.

Hurt running I believe.

 

[Delco Lion]

So did Roberson get hurt of benched. 1/2 for 10 yards is better than I expected honestly.

Knee injury, knocked out of the game.

 

[ryoder1]

The facts say otherwise. He was tackled. Walked off the field. Iowa drove the length for a TD. All of that happened before his injury was known so...you are just plain wrong.

So what? Your overall premise is such a negative slant it goes so far beyond objective logic to emotional vitriol against Franklin and PSU.

Go with your logic, so Iowa scores and makes the score 17-10. Even with Clifford in the game PSU plays the same in the 2nd half as with Roberson and without Mustipher. So those two players make no difference in the outcome of the game, none. Their two replacements played exactly how they would have played. You fail to assess even remotely objectively that just average QB play gets us the win. Add to the fact that with Mustipher out is a key reason they were even able to push over the final TD. To conclude it is a good probability we were going to lose with both Clifford and Mustipher in the game is simply a horrendous take.

 

[KCLion]

So what? Your overall premise is such a negative slant it goes so far beyond objective logic to emotional vitriol against Franklin and PSU.

Go with your logic, so Iowa scores and makes the score 17-10. Even with Clifford in the game PSU plays the same in the 2nd half as with Roberson and without Mustipher. So those two players make no difference in the outcome of the game, none. Their two replacements played exactly how they would have played. You fail to assess even remotely objectively that just average QB play gets us the win. Add to the fact that with Mustipher out is a key reason they were even able to push over the final TD. To conclude it is a good probability we were going to lose with both Clifford and Mustipher in the game is simply a horrendous take.

Didn’t Iowa lose a top DB in that game as well?? Or am I thinking of a different year.

 

[marshall23]

Didn’t Iowa lose a top DB in that game as well?? Or am I thinking of a different year.

after cliff went down....I could have played DB for Iowa.

 

[LandoComando]

after cliff went down....I could have played DB for Iowa.

My 3 year old could have as well. It didn't matter who was in the game for Iowa at that point.

 

[ryoder1]

So what? Your overall premise is such a negative slant it goes so far beyond objective logic to emotional vitriol against Franklin and PSU.

Go with your logic, so Iowa scores and makes the score 17-10. Even with Clifford in the game PSU plays the same in the 2nd half as with Roberson and without Mustipher. So those two players make no difference in the outcome of the game, none. Their two replacements played exactly how they would have played. You fail to assess even remotely objectively that just average QB play gets us the win. Add to the fact that with Mustipher out is a key reason they were even able to push over the final TD. To conclude it is a good probability we were going to lose with both Clifford and Mustipher in the game is simply a horrendous take.

I looked up some numbers to demonstrate how ridiculously stupid this take is saying that Iowa would have beaten us even if Clifford was not knocked out of the game.

Clifford's completion percentage was 66% on all his attempts for the season up until that injury. He was 60% for the Iowa game. Roberson was 7-21 in the Iowa game so a 33% completion percentage.

To make the argument that Clifford would not have made a difference you have to say he would have petformed at or close to Roberson's level which was a 33% completion rate. His 66% rate would have to mysteriously drop in half to 33%! Even if you said Clifford would not be as bad as Roberson but bad enough to cause us to lose then say he performed at a 40% completion rate. That is still an index of 60 versus what had been his completion rate.

Bottom line is that it defies all logic to think Clifford's petformance in the 2nd half vs Iowa would just drop off a cliff (pun intended) causing us to lose. NO WAY.