How Matt Ramos Pinned Spencer Lee
- Thread starter NittanyLion84
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He didn't have much trouble with his opponents before? Spencer was down to Ramos 8-1, 2 months ago.
I watched a lot of Spencer’s matches this year. He either gave up back points or was close to doing so pretty often. I hadn’t watched him much in prior years. Was that also the case in prior years?
He's been on his back before but not like this year..
It's probably a combination of him wrestling tight but also guys are really going after him..
With most it's their only chance.. I think if this match is wrestled 10 times Ramos gets him maybe 2x?? He's so dangerous and especially how they match up.
It's probably a combination of him wrestling tight but also guys are really going after him..
With most it's their only chance.. I think if this match is wrestled 10 times Ramos gets him maybe 2x?? He's so dangerous and especially how they match up.
I think his defense is not as sound bc of his injuries.
I think at some point the reputation wears off. A lot of kids came out to wrestle Spencer and were beat before even putting on the ankle bands. At some point that wears off and kids start realizing you aren't what they fear and that you are bearable. Ramos was that kid.
Rayvon Foley and Dylan Ragusin both tried multiple times to throw him and it never ever worked. Ragusin legitimately has a Greco background. Spencer as healthy back then (even with one bad knee against Ragusin, he rehabbed it well enough to be normal)
Hell, if Vespa just locked the cradle a little bit tighter ... who knows. Marco Vepsa has one career win against a Division 3 room guy. Spencer was hurt this year bottom line.
Hell, if Vespa just locked the cradle a little bit tighter ... who knows. Marco Vepsa has one career win against a Division 3 room guy. Spencer was hurt this year bottom line.
In just the first period, Ramos took him down twice and once to his back in the dual earlier this season.
Most interesting to me was Ramos hitting the head pinch at the end of the first period but at the buzzer. Could see him setting it up off a stuffed Lee dump attempt.
Lee should've anticipated the head pinch when in an identical position in the 3rd. Or perhaps he did, but he slipped the first one and wasn't concerned. Either way, he's not the first to make that mistake.
Much like Cenzo had the double overs on Martinez earlier in their first final. And Bo was clearly trying to bait Martin into an elevator earlier in their final.
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Your last line is probably true. But so is a book and it seemed others were unraveling his tendencies. See Max Dean. It happens.
Vespa was a rather crafty move by Cael. Throw out a guy that no one has ever seen with highly specific instruction on how to get Spencer, and may the Force be with you. You know that was practiced on RBY or Beau all week long. What did anyone have to lose?
edit. Can you imagine the mat room buzz with Vespa? Dude, you are gonna be on National TV with a chance to slay a giant!!! Lol. Well kept secret.
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Would anyone be surprised if Cael had Vespa practicing that ankle pick to cradle against Varner?
OK, maybe that was a little much. Maybe against Aaron?
Great analysis. The head pinch was perfectly executed but nothing comes of it is Ramos doesn't switch to the underhook halfway through, which was inspired stuff.
But Ramos had help and Ciasulli does a great job pointing out how--Lee locked his hands around Ramos while defending the front headlock position and stayed locked even as Ramos was rolling through the head pinch, leaving the shoulder there for the taking. If Lee keeps his arms down and in Lee can just roll through the head pinch, Ramos would've had nothing to grab a hold of.
Granted, it's a pretty odd position to find yourself defending in folkstyle and easier to second-guess when you slow it down for Youtube. But with so little time remaining, Lee should probably know not to be locking hands around Ramos whether from neutral or from his knees, he was inviting disaster. Not to mention that at that point he could've given up a TD and still won with the RT locked.
Just an opinion, but when your gas tank is damn near empty the thought process is slower and not as sharp as normal.
Yeah, the guy in the video above didn't mention the first period pinch. Good catch.
I think this is the simplest, best, and most likely explanation for the surprising sequences of bad decisions by Lee in the third period.
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anon_d29z1jdixxwey
Guest
Is it just me or was Ramos choosing down in the 2nd period one of the dumbest decisions ever in wrestling? He just came off a fabulous 1st period where not only did he survive, but he was up 4-0. Then, he chooses bottom against one of the greatest top wrestlers of all time who basically turns everyone. He fortunately survives with getting turned once and ridden out, and he is lucky to get to the 3rd period where his hail mary was answered. But why the hell would you choose down??? (More so than any time I can recall, choosing down is not a free throw.)
Spencer chose Top. It wasn’t Ramos’s choice.
You guys going to keep asking this? Lee had choice for the millionth time.
Not as dumb as Spencer choosing neutral in the 3rd then
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anon_d29z1jdixxwey
Guest
It's my contention that Spencer was never truly in wrestling shape this year. I don't think it helped him that most of his matches ended in the 1st period. When McKee took Spencer the distance, Spencer was gassed and wobbling. I can't recall which, but there was another that got to the 3rd and Spencer was running on fumes.
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The announcers were wrong. Lee chose top in the 2nd and Ramos chose neutral in the 3rd.
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anon_d29z1jdixxwey
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My apologies. It's reassuring to know that the Purdue staff wasn't that stupid.
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anon_d29z1jdixxwey
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No apologies needed. Not everyone reads every word of every thread. I wondered the same thing at first
My friend virtually called Ramos' Hail Mary before it happened. He told me early in the match that Ramos was a very dangerous wrestler. "Why?", I asked. "Look at who's coaching him. AJ Schopp." AJ was a master of improv in scrambles (and other situations). That move had his fingerprints all over it.
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This is it.
The best way to condition for a sport/activity is to actually do the sport/activity. For a wrestler, the best way to condition for wrestling is to wrestle. You can ride the stationary bike all you want, yes it will build your cardio, but it cannot simulate the intensity, emotions, pushing, pulling, weird angles that are encountered when you actually wrestle. With Lee's injuries, he was most likely on a pitch count in practice and did not have the gas tank to wrestle hard in the 3rd period.
After seeing Lee's match with McKee, I thought he was beatable if you could get to the 3rd period with the match close. Noto almost took him to his back with a half in the 3rd period, had he, most likely pins him. Lee has been ripe all season. When Ramos got to the 2nd period with the lead, it was going to be very interesting. Nobody thought it would be that interesting.
There are a couple mentions of Spencer's injuries in this thread... .are folks referencing the knee surgeries.... or something else?
This rumor got started in the session thread, and took off like wildfire. I'm not sure if Ramos deferred or if Spencer had choice, but one way or the other, Spencer chose top.
Edit: Ah, now I see it was the announcers. Make sense.
Pointed out on another thread by Lyons. When Spencer threw Ramos and his hand landed OOB w 1 minute left. I believe no TD and they may have been giving Lee a Lunger. Ramos had a chance to get coached up and mentally prepare for a 1 minute sprint. Did Brands cost Lee the match? Karma?
Was Ramos going for the whip whether SL body locked or not, or did he think, "Holy crap, he just went body lock," whipped him over?
Yeah, they dinged Ramos for one stall warning, which was nonsense. I forget which period that was in, but it was a "3x NCAA champ benefit call" look. I personally don't think either wrestler stalled enough to be warned, but Lee almost did in the 2nd at one point.
He hit the same move at the end of the first (but Lee slipped out of it). Gotta think that when in the same position, and losing near the end of the match, he was swinging for the fences again.
Maybe Lee's body lock affected the timing of when Ramos hit it, maybe, but not the intent.
