No one here is doing that. You just enjoy playing devil's advocate. No one can deny, that Joe took Penn State to the mountain top, both academically, and on the field. He raised the money, his name and effort did that.
How much things have changed ....
- Thread starter tboyer
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You are overstating your case here. The stadium wasn't really new--it was disassembled and moved across campus. Penn State had had some decent coaching and some notable players before Joe, true. Some in the HoF. But PSU was viewed by most as a little cow college in the middle of nowhere--that was almost impossible to get to (still was even into the 1990s). Penn State had almost never been mentioned on the national stage, excepting maybe in 1912 and 1947, and ca. 1960 under Rip for a year of two. Rivals like Syracuse, Penn, and Pitt had won national championships. We'd only been to two major bowl games (and Temple had been to one). A decent hand--but not a great one.
PSU moved New Beaver Field (built in 1909) to it's current location in 1960 and this dolt thinks PSU got a new stadium. Honestly, he's just Fonzi on water skis at this point.
Saban hasn't been there for 50 years. And I assume he will be smart enough to retire
at a reasonable age. I believe as Paterno got older he became selfish and unreasonable.
He kept deadwood on his staff and hired more with the blatant nepotism of hiring Jay. He then let
him run an obviously inept offense for years until he hired Hall to help him.
When there were rumblings from fans during the dark years Paterno said, "The fans
will just have to lower their expectations.". That's when he lost me. I didn't hate him
but I didn't like him. It was obvious that Paterno was living in the past and many games were
painful to watch. At the end of each season, I prayed he would retire. But he believe the hype
that "He was PSU football" and stayed till the bitter end.
@Hotshoe, its obvious we have a couple of trolls hanging around.
They must have some of the greatest 'tracking" software in the country because as soon as Joe's name is mentioned they are hear like Death Eaters. LOL.
We are a few weeks away from the start of a very promising season.
Lets just do away with the niceities and ban their a$$es.
There's a few ways to do it. They hit follow or use notification on Yahoo or gmail. They can follow a person's every post and move.
Yea, LOTS, of revisionist history going on in this thread, oddly enough its by the Old Guard BOT, Bots.
So who do you think THEY are? Surma? Peetze? Ira? Uncle Fester? or is Ira just letting them live in his basement too so they can spend all their time trolling the penn state websites?
When I attended PSU I knew quite a few players including some who have spoken
out in his favor. I also know what they called him when not in uniform. I doubt his
nicknames changed over the years so any of you that know ex players also have that
information.
Yeah, so what? Name me one person that some don't speak ill of. Weak sauce. Far more respect Joe that knew and played for him. Try a new line, this is weak.
I was advised to talk to some players. I simply responded that I already had and it wasn't all praise.
Weak sauce?
The OGBOT Boot lickers have gone the gamut. First they whispered that there were NCAA violations under Joe. Of course they found out the enforcement was flawless.
Next they tried the cover up angle with an 8 million dollar incentive to Louis the Liar. Poor fools watched even the OAG give up on that one.
Now its, yes Joe was great but....he stayed too long....he was selfish, the program had to run itself....but...but bullshit.
I worked in the same school district for 37 years as a teacher/coach/administrator. The first 24 years, I had the good fortune to work for a great, great man. He took a liking to me and became my mentor, personally and professionally. I doubt I would have had the success or even the opportunities for advancement without his guidance.
He was a John Wayne type of guy and you always knew where you stood with him and what he believed.
Late in his career, he lashed out at me in a public setting for something I was not responsible for. I was embarrassed, angry and resentful. It took me a few days to sort through my emotions. Keep in mind, this was not a man given to apologies, even when wrong.
Finally, I took stock of all the positive things he had done for me. I decided that if I was excepting of all his good will and guidance over the years, I had to embrace the fact that this particular instance was part of who he was. We continued to be very close until he passed away 9 years ago.
Joe's middle name is not but. His career is in the books. It spanned 1966-2011. I accept the National Championships, the 409 victories and The Grand Experiment. The so called Dark Years are a part of his tenure. He surely was not perfect. But he built a foundation of rock, recruited mostly character kids like Mauti and Zordich who steered the ship through the storm. I don't believe any other program in America could have withstood those bullshit sanctions and the stab in the back from its own trustees and president.
Next they tried the cover up angle with an 8 million dollar incentive to Louis the Liar. Poor fools watched even the OAG give up on that one.
Now its, yes Joe was great but....he stayed too long....he was selfish, the program had to run itself....but...but bullshit.
I worked in the same school district for 37 years as a teacher/coach/administrator. The first 24 years, I had the good fortune to work for a great, great man. He took a liking to me and became my mentor, personally and professionally. I doubt I would have had the success or even the opportunities for advancement without his guidance.
He was a John Wayne type of guy and you always knew where you stood with him and what he believed.
Late in his career, he lashed out at me in a public setting for something I was not responsible for. I was embarrassed, angry and resentful. It took me a few days to sort through my emotions. Keep in mind, this was not a man given to apologies, even when wrong.
Finally, I took stock of all the positive things he had done for me. I decided that if I was excepting of all his good will and guidance over the years, I had to embrace the fact that this particular instance was part of who he was. We continued to be very close until he passed away 9 years ago.
Joe's middle name is not but. His career is in the books. It spanned 1966-2011. I accept the National Championships, the 409 victories and The Grand Experiment. The so called Dark Years are a part of his tenure. He surely was not perfect. But he built a foundation of rock, recruited mostly character kids like Mauti and Zordich who steered the ship through the storm. I don't believe any other program in America could have withstood those bullshit sanctions and the stab in the back from its own trustees and president.
No, you said you knew what some called him when they played, and that you "doubt" that has changed -- not that you already had talked to some former players. My guess is that you are 100% wrong, and that most if not all of the former players you allegedly spoke with when they were 18-22 years old now have completely different feelings about Joe Paterno through the lens of mature adults rather than immature college students. Your agenda/shtick has been old for a long time now and your opinion is virtually worthless -- yet in your narcissism you feel compelled to "share" it on this board incessantly.
Very weak. So what? Nobody claims Joe was perfect. He was a football coach. Players always hate coaches, until they're done playing. Then they realize they were usually wrong. So how is this earth shattering news?
The guy is a laughable little douche-bag and troll. Paterno's career record was 409-136-3. Paterno's bowl record was 24-12-1. Paterno coached 5 separate teams to Undefeated, Untied Seasons in which they won a major bowl. All of these items are records among his peers.
These idiots want to talk about JVP's record during the decade of the 1990s - PSU's record during that decade was 97-26 fifth best in the nation among the Major Conference/Independent teams (Michigan was 93-26-3 and duhO$U was 91-29-3).
Too funny, JVP is the all-time leader in wins, bowl wins and undefeated-untied seasons that included a Major Bowl win (Paterno had 5 of those)....and was the winningest B1G Team during the decade of the 1990s (including a 7-3 bowl record during the decade), but according to all the loser "poser trolls" on here JVP underperformed in the 1990s.....LMFAO, if PSU and JVP underperformed during the 1990s, the poser-trolls favorite teams (i.e., ASWP or a "traditional B1G $hithole" teams) really sucked as JVPs Nittany Lions outperformed all of them on the field!
I read an article about the B1G guaranteeing 4 year scholarships but I don't know if that's in effect, if there are work arounds, etc.? I saw something that said a player could leave school and come back later to finish graduation requirements.
None of us know what's going on but I suspect Franklin is telling underclassmen that it's time to move on. At least 2 last year and probably several more this year. The current squad has 85 scholarship players, 15 of which have senior eligibility. That means we could sign 15 if everybody returns but it looks like we're going to sign 25. So where do the other 10 come from? Barkley is most likely one of them but that still leaves 9. We only have 12 more with junior eligibility and they're not all 5th year guys. Many are already seeing a lot of PT so we would have to lose sophomores. I imagine a few will leave on their own. Some will want to get on with their lives and others (like Sickles last year) will take a shot at the NFL even with poor draft prospects. But I can't imagine 9 of them. I've been surprised in the past but I've never seen anything close to that number.
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Osprey, the man has passed away. But it seems every chance you get you take shots at what you feel his shortcomings are. That is clearly your right. The man is gone and most people on this sight feel his contributions to PSU are worthy of praise and far outweigh his shortcomings (which we all have). Discussing his contributions does not diminish the current coaching staff and their future achievements. JF appreciates PSU's past, and what those who went before him stood for. What you are doing makes you sound petty and jealous. Hopefully when you pass, no one will have a grudge against you. If they do, I hope they are secure enough in their own life to let it go.
After sorting through all the above back and forth I'm just here to celebrate a return to the glory of our past. Not denigrating the past but celebrating the present. I hope and expect to rise from here but realize that we can't guarantee that outcome, yet I hope for it. May we experience the glory we did in the past and rise to even greater heights. Piece by piece may we build the house back from the depths of the sanctions meant to kill us and chagrin to those who's goal it was to destroy the program and our happiness. It' s a great time to be a Nittany Lion fan. May it continue unabated.
No doubt, this clown doesn't need to "act stupid", he was endowed with the quality from birth....a good example being his latest bull$hit about Erie, PA being closer to Columbus than State College and Cathedral Prep in Erie being traditionally more closely aligned with the "traditional B1G $hithole" programs as a "feeder school" than sending its players to PSU or other Pennsylvania-based FBS Programs after Juice Scruggs recently committed to PSU....blah, blah, blah....bull$hit piled upon more completely false bull$hit.
First of all, I and 4 of my brothers graduated from the high school in question dating all the way back to the late 1960s, so I think I know a little more about the topic than troll-boy does!
Beyond that, the poster is utterly full of $hit that Erie is closer to duhO$U than PSU....or shares any historic tie to the b1g $hithole schools whatsoever as a "feeder program" (Kirk Ferentz pulled a couple recruits from Prep in the early 2000s, but his connection was via Joe Moore - yea that "Joe Moore" - who happened to be Ferentz's high school coach at Upper St. Clair and was coaching OL at Prep at the time - started coaching at Prep in 2000 I believe after being terminated at ND. Can't go into all the details about how this came to be, but Joe Moore was the head coach at McDowell in Erie in the early 1960s before going to USC in Pittsburgh...then becoming a legendary OL coach at ASWP, ND, etc... in any event, Joe Moore had long roots in Western PA Coaching, both Erie and Pittsburgh, dating all the way back to the 1950s AND his son, John, was coaching at Prep in Erie [Prep has a very long, rich history as a football program in Western PA...ditto McDowell in Erie and Tech to a lesser extent where Fred Biletnikoff graduated [Tech went on to be merged into "Central High School and now "Erie High School"]).
In addition, Pittsburgh is far closer to Columbus, OH than Erie, but State College is still far closer to Pittsburgh than Columbus, OH.....only a complete slack-jaw, moronic "traditional b1g $hithole" troll, know-nothing, make-it-up-as-you-go-along @ssclown would make the claim that historic Western Pennsylvania high school football powers, be they in Erie or Pittsburgh, are more heavily tied to the "traditional b1g $hithole" than Pennsylvania Programs! Even Kirk Ferentz's connection to Cathedral Prep in Erie was via his WESTERN PA roots, not any connection of Iowa to the Cathedral Prep program.....but these slackjaw traditional b1g $hithole types don't let simple little things like FACTS get in the way of their bull$hit claims!
Prep has sent many players to PSU through the decades including the last several decades (including Billy Fessler who has been on the team since 2014)....but there have been many others including Charles Rush (OL), Charlie Pittman's son (yes that Charlie Pittman who was an AA RB for PSU in the early 1970s and played in the same backfield as Franco Harris and John Cappalletti) - Pittman's son played d-back for PSU. A guy named Shawn Dumbrowski who was a PA High School AA standout went to PSU (but transferred out), etc., etc., etc... Prep has sent an equal number of stars to ASWP including one of their best OL ever - a 4-year starter, multiple year AA, one of the Dallas Cowboys all-time great OL, Mark Stepnoski. In any event, the only other school that has really consistently competed for Cathedral Prep's recruits along with PSU and ASWP is ND (one of Scruggs' teammates is committed to ND in fact, LB Matt Bauer).
In any event, complete horse$hit to claim that Cathedral Prep has no history of sending its best players to Pennsylvania-based schools OR the equally ridiculous and absurd claim that Prep has traditionally acted as a feeder-school for b1g $hithole programs! But these poser-troll clowns don't let things like FACTS get in the way of their legendary stupidity and utter bull$hit claims!
Well it is kind of funny that the Head Coach who has returned PSU to it's past glory after CORRUPT SCUMBAGS (including the CORRUPT SCUMBAGS on PSU's BOT) USED THE PROGRAM for their own selfish agendas, threw the program under the bus scapegoating it to protect themselves against their own corruptions and failings (the BOT was the home of the TRUE ENABLERS of Sandusky and his FRAUDULENT charity, not Paterno's Football Program as Joe attempting to block the access the "Friends of Jerry" provided in 1999 PROVES WITHOUT QUESTION!)... attempting to destroy the program with a completely contrived bull$hit story and UNJUST sanctions!
Coach Franklin has repeatedly sung Paterno's praises and even referred to him as the "Great Joe Paterno"......how he had dreamed of playing for him as a PA School-boy, grew-up a PSU fan and how to this day PSU has always been his "dream coaching destination". Coach Franklin has spoken at great length about how honored he is to walk in Coach Paterno's footsteps and Sheppard the "Grand Experiment" of "Success with Honor" and a "core value philosophy" of not just academic as well as athletic excellence, but excellence in everything his players and program are involved with - IOW, a direct extension of Paterno's "Grand Experiment".
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There is no way that you can say PSU was recruiting at a top level, really from probably 2002 on when George Paterno passed away and Joe admitted that he lost a little something after that. The dark year teams were pretty thin to the point there were walk-ons starting at LB regularly and think about QB recruiting in the 2000s. There were always kids that were going to come to PSU b/c of history, family, etc, but PSU was not recruiting nationally, and PSU was even having a hard time getting the top kids in PA and NJ. PSU even lowered it's character standards a bit mid decade at LJs pushing which resulted in a ton of 4* kids, but also a ton of discipline issues and dismissals. PSU caught lightning in a bottle in 2005 and took advantage of a horrendous B1G in 2008 and the last half of the decade in general, but if you are being honest, PSU was the sleeping giant for at least a decade.
the 2008 team was very good, regardless of the conference
the 2009 team went 10-2 due to a incredibly weak schedule. had 2 tough games, and got whipped at home in both. but the LSU win put a nice ribbon on that season
The difference in mileage between Pittsburgh and Columbus and State College and Pittsburgh is about 45 miles. For Erie? About 25 miles. Yes, State College is marginally closer, but not "far closer". Googlemap is your friend. So are facts.
I won't argue that PSU was consistently recruiting in the last decade of Paterno's career at the same level that it did in the decades before, but the "dark years" (I assume you mean 2000-2004) had nothing to do with recruiting after George Paterno's death. Any recruiting that happened after 6/23/02 had little to nothing to do with the 2003 and 2004 seasons let alone 2000 and 2001. Perhaps Joe slipped in his involvement in game preparation and intensity, etc. during 2003 and 2004. That I can buy.
You're full of $hit - the google map you're referencing for Erie is if you take the longest Interstate route possible - Erie to State College via Rt 8 to Rt 36 dropping you on I-80 at Brookville is only 175 miles (Erie to Columbus is about 240 miles), but you're utterly full of crap, and clearly flunked your Geography class, that Erie is closer to Columbus by 20 miles than Pittsburgh is (in reality - something which you clearly aren't familiar with - Pittsburgh is roughly 185 miles from Columbus most West, but Columbus is actually slightly south of Pittsburgh on I-70 by about 25 miles and Erie again is some 240 miles due Northeast of Columbus and 125 miles due North of Pittsburgh!).
State College on a shortest distance to Columbus is ~340 miles (you could go north out of State College and take I-80 or go south from State College on new I-99 to I-70, which is part of I-76 until you get to New Stanton where I-76 turns North toward Irwin and I-70 continues West toward "Little Washington", but it doesn't matter which way you go, they're both the same distance).
IOW, State College, PA to Columbus, OH is 1.85x further than a trip from State College, PA to Pittsburgh, PA (Pittsburgh is 185 miles from State College while Columbus is 340). Columbus, OH is 1.94x further than a trip from State College, PA to Erie, PA. Only a spinning, agenda-based moron could categorize trips that are roughly twice as far away (1.85 and 1.94 times further respectively) in a different state as being "marginally further away" LMFAO!
BTW, the central tenant of the OP's contentions that Cathedral Prep in Erie, PA (or any high school in Erie) has stronger historic connections to b1g $hithole schools than Pennsylvania-based FBS schools is equally complete made-up nonsense and baseless, anti-facutual BULL$HIT!!!
Chill. I used Google map. And the key there is that Google map chooses *the fastest route*. And we were not talking State College to Columbus--but Western PA students (i.e., Pittsburgh) to either Columbus or State College. Or Erie to either Columbus or State College. AS YOU WELL KNOW. The distances are not that much different. Which is why, on the flip side, that PSU has always recruited well in Youngstown vis-a-vis tOSU as compared with the rest of Ohio.
And I know quite well know how long it takes as I've made those trips many, many times. It used to be that it was much easier and somewhat quicker to get from Pittsburgh to Columbus than State College to Pittsburgh as the former was almost all on interstates and US 22 wasn't to that standard. Thankfully, that's changed, to a certain extent as US 22 from Ebensburg is now up to that standard and I-99 is largely complete. That saved at least an hour or more going through Altoona. I remember the traffic in Altoona and the backups north of the Tyrone bypass on 220. And do not miss it.
PSU actually had the #6 rated class in 2006 (Bowman, Maybin, Quarless) but several guys flamed out (Chris Bell, Logan-El, Phil Taylor).
24th in 2007
43rd in 2008 (only 14 kids including Mauti & Zordich)
24th in 2009
12th in 2010
35th in 2011 (only 16 kids)
2012 was looking like a top 5 class before the Sandusky crap hit the fan and 5 kids flipped to O$U, a couple to Pitt, and one to Rutgers.
I think it's fair to say that the recruiting was a little inconsistent, maybe not up to PSU standards. That said, I don't think the bottom had fallen out.
Were you making that trip when Tyrone used to have the paper mill?
I remember when my mom and dad would take my sisters and thats how we would go.
That smell was awful. LOL.
I don't recall that--but I was making that trip regularly from Columbus from 1985 on for at least 10+ years as we used to stay in Pittsburgh with friends in Squirrel Hill. Part of that time the I-80 route was no fun as it was always under construction. That changed--and the increase to 65 mph on I80 gradually shifted our route to the Northern route, staying anywhere from Brookville to Clearfield and then finally State College our last few years as the back and forth got to be too much. Eventually, after 2012, we dropped our season tickets and have only been back a few times since.
Oh sorry that would have been in the late 60's and early 70's.
By the time I was going from 80-85 the Paper Mill must have been closed and then there was the, thank God, bypass and I99.
Before 1978, I was coming from Bucks County, as I'd never been west of Harrisburg before attending PSU (north of the Mason-Dixon line anyway, as I'd been to Alabama and Georgia as a kid a couple times).
No burn at all. Just more Joebots name calling and not having facts to offset Joe's miserable record against talented teams.LOL, somebody better call an ambulance cause Corabi94 just got burned. Well Done Fox.
You should stop while you're behind. Miserable record, lol. Ask Sabin or Meyer if they believe that. Joe has records that won't be broken, and have stood for years. It's simply stupid to challenge the winningist coach in the history of college football. Obviously, the hat fits you well.
Your math is incorrect. I would call the 1987 Fiesta Bowl "playing for a national championship." Also, becasue prior to the BCS, national titles were won by popular vote, I think the 1995 Rose Bowl was for a national title, as well. Penn State played to finish unbeaten ... it couldn't control how the votes were cast.
So, it might be more accurate to say Penn State hasn't been undefeated and allowed to play for a national title since 1994. But boy, 2005 and 2008 were darn close.
Yep, kind of silly to talk about "playing for a Natty" when FBS did not, and still does not, have an actual playoff structure allowing even the BCS-conference Champions to determine the best team on the field. Claiming that 1994 and 2005 PSU teams which went into the bowl season among the 3 absolute best teams in the nation and won their bowl games did not play for a "MNC" is just a stupid and misleading thing to claim.
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