I do have to ask this question
- Thread starter Nbergbuck
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Of course they aren’t…though you’ll find plenty here that are convinced it’s otherwise.
I do not believe it is institutional, however as a "newbie" it sure feels like we have been screwed more than not vs The Big 2.
Biggest burns which still require Preparation H are:
- The extra time added and "catch" vs "non catches" vs Michigan.
and
- The "interception" by Eli Apple where somehow the replay official couldn't see what 107,000 people outside of his booth could on the Jumbotron combined with the fg kicked more than a few seconds after play clock expired vs OSU in the SAME GAME
I won't even include the penalty against The Beaver Stadium crowd for being too loud in 1993 vs the Skunkbears. I was there and should've realized that we no lo get would be tops dogs ( see McCloskey, Mike inbounds catch vs. Nebraska 1982).
Are refs intimidated by big home crowds? They are human.... but it just feels OSU and UM tend to "balance out" greater than 50/50.
I'm sure others will post the pix of the most egregious (eg bouncing "catch" by OSU Tight End). There is for sure a Greatest Hits list....
Biggest burns which still require Preparation H are:
- The extra time added and "catch" vs "non catches" vs Michigan.
and
- The "interception" by Eli Apple where somehow the replay official couldn't see what 107,000 people outside of his booth could on the Jumbotron combined with the fg kicked more than a few seconds after play clock expired vs OSU in the SAME GAME
I won't even include the penalty against The Beaver Stadium crowd for being too loud in 1993 vs the Skunkbears. I was there and should've realized that we no lo get would be tops dogs ( see McCloskey, Mike inbounds catch vs. Nebraska 1982).
Are refs intimidated by big home crowds? They are human.... but it just feels OSU and UM tend to "balance out" greater than 50/50.
I'm sure others will post the pix of the most egregious (eg bouncing "catch" by OSU Tight End). There is for sure a Greatest Hits list....
It's not just the zebras. They're only the most visible and obvious part of the equation.
And for that matter, it's not just Ohio State and Michigan, though, again, some of the most infamous calls (or non-calls) over the years have involved those teams.
Then again, we've played a bunch of games that were called more or less evenly...or at least where the incompetence was not partial to one team. This past season, for example, I can't complain about the officiating in either the Ohio State or MIchigan games.
But you have to focus back and look at the big picture. Penn State was never welcome in the Big-10. Many schools adamantly opposed our joining, and from Day One, the conference sent a message that we should not dare to think of ourselves on the same plane as the Sacred Cows.
Delany hardly tried to hide his feelings. And it just seems like they look for ways in passive-aggressive fashion to get the point across. How many conference openers in a row have we started on the road? And after we made our feelings known on that subject, the league made a point of doing it again next year -- just so we'd know our place.
The ridiculous lopsided divisional structure, which exists to protect the sanctity of the Big Game, is another factor.
Look, I could go on because it's actually a long list, and I've only touched on some of it. It is what it is. Personally, I hate this league and its two Sacred Cows. The Big-10 has shown contempt for Penn State, and a lot of Penn State fans don't need much prodding at this point to return the favor.
Not sure how you define a while or domination but UM has won the conference 4 times in the last 20 years with a 17 year gap between titles two and three... if no titles for over a decade and a half equals domination well then sure.
As for helped by the refs, yes but not due to some directive. The conference for whatever reason has really lax rules on conflicts of interest (real or perceived). When you've got officials like John O'Neil who has/had kids enrolled at OSU and Dick Honig who is a Michigan alum and letterman doing their games you've got lax controls.
No.
No.
Every fan base can find something that would appear fishy in calls made by refs. I can name some of ours much easier than I can name those of others. Biases do exist and I don't think a referee should be allowed to call games for a team he has a shrine built to in his man cave (was it Witovet who had this? Some ref reportedly had a Wolverine shrine in his home).
Additionally, crews should be national. No conference affiliation. Playoff games should be handled by the refs who grade out the best each year.
I do not believe officiating has had much (if any) impact between Penn State and OSU.
Some of the calls have gone against us. An equal amount has gone against OSU.
Yep. Remember when Delaney and “Eye test” Herbie lobbied the playoff committee for OSU over the BIG10 Champion in 2016….before the game was even played?
You would NEVER see that happen if the roles were reversed.
If we went on the road and beat Oklahoma and our only loss was by 3 points on the road I would absolutely expect that to happen if the roles were reversed.
Again, Ohio State's resume > Penn State's resume in 2016. Washington should have never gotten in but beating Oklahoma gave Ohio State a top 10 road win while we lost to 8-4 Pitt and got embarrassed by Michigan.
2016 would have been an amazing playoff though if it was 16 or even just 12 teams. USC may have won it all despite being 9.
So you think Delaney would’ve lobbied for Penn State in 2016 if OSU won the conference?!? I need some of what you are smoking.
AT BEST, he would have stayed silent.
….and Herbie would have pressed the “head to head“ and “teams showing substantial improvement during the year should be rewarded” narratives.
Don't take it personally. Please take the time to read books of the History of UM and how they extorted the conference from the beginning. There are several books written by Um alum that clearly document how Motown took the power of the conference away from the Windy City. It is fascinating as much as it will make you hurl.
If you want to see how it works, watch the documentary Operation Flagrant Foul on Netflix. That’s about the NBA refs, but it gives you the picture of what’s going on in most leagues. If a ref wants the top jobs, wants to work the playoffs, or the conference championship games, then they have to follow the unwritten rules. In the NBA, it’s things like not calling fouls on the star players, overlooking traveling violations on big plays, getting certain teams into certain levels of the playoff. So refs aren’t directly told anything, but they’re told indirectly by their treatment.
This nonsense that Herbie is biased is the worst part of your argument.
Ohio State was more deserving than us based on the criteria used. We all know that even if we won't admit it. Us beating Ohio State head to head means nothing when we lost to Pitt and Michigan. This has been explained countless times--the committee never compared us to Ohio State as it wasn't even close.
And, maybe Delaney would have stayed silent but he should have pushed for us in that scenario and we can't say he wouldn't have as we don't know.
Again, you're mad about him pushing Ohio State when he was right to do so and then making assumptions.
Uh, Delaney also pushed Michigan, losers of two of last three, ahead of big en champ that year as a second big ten team.
And Lando is the most delusional of all - his PSU hatred seeps out in every post - if he isn’t a fan of another school he should be since he seems to hate all things PSU - and in his mind a bad call has never gone our way and Herbie isn’t a OSU homer despite all the evidence to the contrary - when we can only pony to a few horrendous calls that went in our favor and dozens that went the other way it says something - oh and until recently UM was in no way dominating the Big10
You are a hoot. Remember, this was prior to the game. So he was lobbying for a Michigan team to be the second big ten team over the big ten champ that could have been Wisconsin. They did lose by 7 to um in Ann Arbor on October 1, and also lost to OSU in ot vs a team that lost two of last three, one to a team both Wisconsin and PSU beat. Psu won by 27.
the completed pass to OSU tight end (Hartline??) when everyone but the ref could see that it hit the ground
yea, but since then the parameter has been best team at the end of the season....remember, we beat ohio state. so if using who beat who, ohio state should notn have gone either.
I think what grabs everybody is how the parameters change. In 2016 it was the "looks test". Then it became conference champions...I don't know what it was this year that got ohio state in before Tennessee or alabama - wins/losses..."looks test" went out the window
You are the most delusional. Obviously, we were never welcome in the conference and are still not.
I agree--it should be about the end of the season but I'm one of the few that argue that. It's why there needs to be a 16+ team playoff. Ideally 24. But that's unfortunately not the system. The system as it was at the time made sense for him to push Ohio State and Michigan. I don't think he thought we'd beat Wisconsin
Nobody here is shedding a tear for any calls made/not made against UM or OSU Saturday night.
I know--many believe to be a Penn State fan you can't ever acknowledge we're not perfect.
Was Ben Hartsock. Interestingly, he recenly admitted it bounced (as if we didn't already know). He told a nice story on BIG Radio about tailgating with the PSU fans at the Auburn game. Very complimentary of our fans.
