I heard on KDKA that a PSU Frat was suspended but I didn't catch the name
- Thread starter PSURAHJ
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Everybody agrees that due process should occur.
The rest is just speculation and discussion so not sure why everybody is fighting over facts that nobody here can know are true or not true, as we all read the same article.
I think the point is that IF (and obviously due process will determine that) what the article says and implies actually did happen, which is frat boys taking pictures of passed out chics without clothes and posted them on a 'secret' facebook page for others to see, that is big time wrong and criminal. It is not knucklehead behavior, an 18-22 year old knows that what they are doing is wrong.
As the poster said above, all of us in college knew kids that had no filter and no morals. It is just up to about 10 years ago, there was only so much trouble somebody like that could get into. Now with phones on camera's and social media, with two clicks of a button, you can get into serious criminal trouble. Never in the history of mankind was it so simple to get into so much trouble.
The rest is just speculation and discussion so not sure why everybody is fighting over facts that nobody here can know are true or not true, as we all read the same article.
I think the point is that IF (and obviously due process will determine that) what the article says and implies actually did happen, which is frat boys taking pictures of passed out chics without clothes and posted them on a 'secret' facebook page for others to see, that is big time wrong and criminal. It is not knucklehead behavior, an 18-22 year old knows that what they are doing is wrong.
As the poster said above, all of us in college knew kids that had no filter and no morals. It is just up to about 10 years ago, there was only so much trouble somebody like that could get into. Now with phones on camera's and social media, with two clicks of a button, you can get into serious criminal trouble. Never in the history of mankind was it so simple to get into so much trouble.
Re: I know victim blaming when I see it. And you are actually doing something
Victim-blaming is BS.
Every year hundreds of girls whose fathers have taught them not to get drunk and pass out at fraternities do so anyways. Maybe your little princess heeds your advice, maybe she doesn't. Do you want to find that she doesn't because some criminal has taken her picture and posted it on the internet?
Victim-blaming is BS.
A general question for anyone who can answer... I asked once already but haven't seen a response. Are Frats actually affiliated with the university? Other than the members being students? Is this actually a PSU frat... or just a frat at PSU?
Re: I know victim blaming when I see it. And you are actually doing something
Victim-blaming would be if someone says: it's the girls own fault because she passed out at a fraternity house.
On the other hand, it's smart to teach women not to pass out at fraternity houses.
You should learn the distinction. It might come in handy for you someday.
There you go again with your righteous indignity. Let me help you out:
Victim-blaming would be if someone says: it's the girls own fault because she passed out at a fraternity house.
On the other hand, it's smart to teach women not to pass out at fraternity houses.
You should learn the distinction. It might come in handy for you someday.
No. You truly do not know what you are talking about.
You think giving people the benefit of the doubt is "due process." It is not. It is giving them the benefit of the doubt. Due process is the type of process FROM THE GOVERNMENT which is your due. I am not the government.
As long as you keep calling this due process you are doing more harm to due process than a hundred private individuals who conclude that they must be guilty.
You think giving people the benefit of the doubt is "due process." It is not. It is giving them the benefit of the doubt. Due process is the type of process FROM THE GOVERNMENT which is your due. I am not the government.
As long as you keep calling this due process you are doing more harm to due process than a hundred private individuals who conclude that they must be guilty.
But the post you responded to was about due process.
That was the topic of discussion. you cited some irrelevancy about people calling Joe a pedophile enabler and I said they would be wrong, then returned to the point I was making.
This thread blew up when SE said it was knucklehead behavior. Note that his post PRESUMED IT WAS TRUE, but he did not care about it much.
Then Pardlion began his BS about due process and I responded. but Pard added something: victim-blaming.
I do not need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that they did this. That is a legal standard imposed on courts and juries.
Now, it seems as though they may have a witness who is a frat brother. That, with the photos, makes this potentially a MUCH different case than the claims against JVP. MUCH different.
That was the topic of discussion. you cited some irrelevancy about people calling Joe a pedophile enabler and I said they would be wrong, then returned to the point I was making.
This thread blew up when SE said it was knucklehead behavior. Note that his post PRESUMED IT WAS TRUE, but he did not care about it much.
Then Pardlion began his BS about due process and I responded. but Pard added something: victim-blaming.
I do not need to know beyond a reasonable doubt that they did this. That is a legal standard imposed on courts and juries.
Now, it seems as though they may have a witness who is a frat brother. That, with the photos, makes this potentially a MUCH different case than the claims against JVP. MUCH different.
Re: I am sure the many women who are given the date rape drug at frat houses
Edit: I certainly do not feel that victim blaming is appropriate here, but I fully understand PardLion's statement that he would counsel his daughter to avoid, at all costs, passing out in a fraternity. .I also agree that the KDR members should be afforded due process before any kind of criminal sanctions are imposed. (Suspension of their Chapter pending an investigation is not a criminal sanction, by the way.) What strikes me is the report that these KDR members started not one but two sites devoted to posting,,sharing and viewing these photos. They also made it a "members only" or "invitation only" site, which strongly suggests to me that they knew what they were doing was wrong, not to mention illegal.
This post was edited on 3/17 6:20 PM by LafayetteBear
+1, dem.
Edit: I certainly do not feel that victim blaming is appropriate here, but I fully understand PardLion's statement that he would counsel his daughter to avoid, at all costs, passing out in a fraternity. .I also agree that the KDR members should be afforded due process before any kind of criminal sanctions are imposed. (Suspension of their Chapter pending an investigation is not a criminal sanction, by the way.) What strikes me is the report that these KDR members started not one but two sites devoted to posting,,sharing and viewing these photos. They also made it a "members only" or "invitation only" site, which strongly suggests to me that they knew what they were doing was wrong, not to mention illegal.
This post was edited on 3/17 6:20 PM by LafayetteBear
Re: I am sure the many women who are given the date rape drug at frat houses
I do now, however, have a much clearer understanding of the mentality of the morons that came after Joe, so thanks for that.
LOL. You guys are like two cranky old men making up your own conversation despite what is being said around you. I'm not even sure why you started in on the getting drugged topic, since it was never an issue. I think it made you feel like white knights though, so whatev.
I do now, however, have a much clearer understanding of the mentality of the morons that came after Joe, so thanks for that.
No, it's really not
This kind of stuff has been going on if the Greek community for a while. So now instead of just the brothers having access to these photos they are being "shared" on the internet.
This kind of stuff has been going on if the Greek community for a while. So now instead of just the brothers having access to these photos they are being "shared" on the internet.
Re: No, it's really not
If you have a daughter and she attends frat functions she is also well aware of this behavior (and worse) because the students also know that sh!t like this happens at those places.
Your reading comprehension needs work.
Again, nothing in my post is wrong. I simply said it's been going on at PSU and other places with a Greek system for many generations. I never said it was legal or moral. I am simply pointing out that people acting like this is something new or different than what has been done in the past have been living in a bubble for the last 100 years.
If you have a daughter and she attends frat functions she is also well aware of this behavior (and worse) because the students also know that sh!t like this happens at those places.
Your reading comprehension needs work.
Re: I know victim blaming when I see it. And you are actually doing something
Pardlion: Your post above, is the first post in which YOU made that distinction. Further, your statement that you never used the words "knucklehead behavior" in a post is parsing worthy of Bill Clinton. Dem had submitted a post stating that posting a passed out woman's nude photos to the Net without her permission is clearly beyond "knucklehead behavior," and your response to Dem began with the words "It is?" Nice try.
Since you apparently can't remember what you wrote.
Someone wrote:
Pretty sure that publishing photos of naked women taken without their permission is a wee bit more than "just college kids being knuckleheads."
And you responded:
No, it's really not.
This post was edited on 3/17 9:21 PM by Aoshiro
Someone wrote:
Pretty sure that publishing photos of naked women taken without their permission is a wee bit more than "just college kids being knuckleheads."
And you responded:
No, it's really not.
This post was edited on 3/17 9:21 PM by Aoshiro
Re: Since you apparently can't remember what you wrote.
LOL, my bad. I posted that you said "It is?" when what you actually said was "Is it?" 23rd post in this thread, for those keeping score at home.
Re: I know victim blaming when I see it. And you are actually doing something
I'm really starting to worry about you guys.
First, I never made the distinction before, for the obvious reason that I never equated the two concepts. The linkage was just a straw man cooked up by dumlion and asshero.
As for your alleged "gotcha"--no. What i was saying, if you bother reading and thinking, is that you have to be in a position where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in order to commit the crime that de lion was trying to imply was committed, even though he has about 2 pct if the facts. So, nice try taking my words out of context, but not clever enough.
I'm really starting to worry about you guys.
First, I never made the distinction before, for the obvious reason that I never equated the two concepts. The linkage was just a straw man cooked up by dumlion and asshero.
As for your alleged "gotcha"--no. What i was saying, if you bother reading and thinking, is that you have to be in a position where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in order to commit the crime that de lion was trying to imply was committed, even though he has about 2 pct if the facts. So, nice try taking my words out of context, but not clever enough.
pandaczar12: I can answer that question. Most college social fraternities (whether they are local chapters of national fraternities or merely local fraternities, meaning they are on single campus only) are affiliated with the university in the sense that they enter into signed "recognition" or "affiliation" agreements with the university. (KDR's PSU chapter is an affiliated chapter.) These agreements typically spell out the various minimum responsibilities of the fraternity and the kind of supervision and sponsorship to be provided by the university (e.g., access to student admit lists, participation in a university sponsored "formal rush" week in the fall), More importantly, at least from the university's standpoint, such agreements also call for the fraternity to indemnify the university for claims and damages attributable to the fraternity's operations, and oblgate the fraternity to add the university as an "additional insured" on the fraternity's general liability insurance policy.
Some fraternity chapters (or local fraternities) opt not to sign such agreements, and not to be formally recognized by their university. Instead, they opt to rely on their Second Amendment right of free association. Aside from being excluded from university sponsored events like fall rush, going without formal recognition carries some risk, particularly for fraternity chapters that have their own fraternity house. Many cities where universities are located have enacted zoning regulations making a fraternity house a "nonconforming use" that is permissible only if the fraternity is formally recognized by the local university. Loss of recognition then has the potential to make use of the house as a fraternity a non-permitted, non-conforming use, (In other words, the fraternity house could be closed down or forced to convert to a boarding house.) Going without formal university recognition has become a growing trend, so zoning regulations like this are likely to be tested in court in the near future.
This post was edited on 3/17 10:15 PM by LafayetteBear
Re: Since you apparently can't remember what you wrote.
So your point is that there's a significant difference between "It is?" and "Is it?" Like Dem said, I know victim blaming when I see it. I was offering you an olive branch, but you chose not to take it. Whatever.
Re: Pretty sure that publishing photos of naked women taken without their
So far the stories suggest the people involved will be charged with multiple misdemeanors. That will screw their lives over pretty good, and deservedly so. Hopefully nothing worse took place there.
With the hype though, you'd think someone was murdered or viciously assaulted. It's sad we live in a world where being photographed naked is sensationalized into some horrific front page crime to the point we ignore other problems in the world.
So far the stories suggest the people involved will be charged with multiple misdemeanors. That will screw their lives over pretty good, and deservedly so. Hopefully nothing worse took place there.
With the hype though, you'd think someone was murdered or viciously assaulted. It's sad we live in a world where being photographed naked is sensationalized into some horrific front page crime to the point we ignore other problems in the world.
Re: Pretty sure that publishing photos of naked women taken without their
People really need to stop downplaying the gravity of this. It's not a good look.
This may not be a pretty big deal to you, but I'd encourage you to talk to the women in your life about whether they think that unknowingly having their naked pictures shared on the internet constitutes a "vicious assault."
People really need to stop downplaying the gravity of this. It's not a good look.
Re: Seriously. While I support the punishment of these clowns, I am
You actually believe they should detain everyone because your kid lost his phone? If he loses it at beaver stadium should they stop the game and not let everyone leave until it is found? I bet you would be the first parent to complain if another kid lost his cell phone and the school would not let your kid leave. You kid claims it was stolen. He might have just lost it. How long should they have held everyone? They would not have done that back in the day because they had a concept called personal responsibility. Back in the day when my new pair of shoes were taken out of my locker during practice my parents did expect them to lock down the school and detain everyone. They told me it was my fault and for the rest of the year I wore old shoes. If your child is unable to keep a cell phone due to his disability then perhaps you need to reconsider him having one instead of expecting the school to cater to you.
