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I test drove a VW ID.4 this weekend

Obliviax

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and was simply blown away. As I understand it, VW got caught lying about deisel engine performance. They got fined billions and had to commit to some R&D. This is the result. I also understand that VW is trying to restore their name and establish themselves as the EV go-to car. This car comes in at ~ $42k but when you apply the $7500 tax credit is $35k out of pocket. Compare that to the prices for the Ford Mach E (which isn't a mustang, its an SUV) or Testla and it is far lower in price.

  • while I've driven some EV's, this was by far the quietest
  • Today it is RWD with AWD coming but with so much computer assist, over 4,500 lbs and great balance, is AWD needed?
  • 0-60 lags versus a tesla, but it was very comfortable and fine. I mean, how often do you need to blow someone off the line of scrimmage in a car?
  • the roof is all glass. can't put it up but it apparently adds to headroom.
  • Great room in the front and back and still has plenty of storage
  • Seems like just the right video screen. The Mach E and Tesla seem like overkill to me.
  • The balance and safety features of this car are really great.
  • it has a really compact front and, where the motor is, which makes the driver feel like they are in a much smaller vehcle
  • the turning radius is nuts. You can do a U-turn on a normal two-lane road using the shoulder.
I may have to buy one.

id4-leaked-1.jpg


Thoughts?
 
and was simply blown away. As I understand it, VW got caught lying about deisel engine performance. They got fined billions and had to commit to some R&D. This is the result. I also understand that VW is trying to restore their name and establish themselves as the EV go-to car. This car comes in at ~ $42k but when you apply the $7500 tax credit is $35k out of pocket. Compare that to the prices for the Ford Mach E (which isn't a mustang, its an SUV) or Testla and it is far lower in price.

  • while I've driven some EV's, this was by far the quietest
  • Today it is RWD with AWD coming but with so much computer assist, over 4,500 lbs and great balance, is AWD needed?
  • 0-60 lags versus a tesla, but it was very comfortable and fine. I mean, how often do you need to blow someone off the line of scrimmage in a car?
  • the roof is all glass. can't put it up but it apparently adds to headroom.
  • Great room in the front and back and still has plenty of storage
  • Seems like just the right video screen. The Mach E and Tesla seem like overkill to me.
  • The balance and safety features of this car are really great.
  • it has a really compact front and, where the motor is, which makes the driver feel like they are in a much smaller vehcle
  • the turning radius is nuts. You can do a U-turn on a normal two-lane road using the shoulder.
I may have to buy one.

id4-leaked-1.jpg


Thoughts?
Electricity is for Christmas lights and vibrators.
 
Thanks for the review. We have a 2019 Tiguan that we like quite a lot, however, I like the idea of having an EV for the around town stuff and a normal car for longer trips. My wife works about 20 minutes away, so it would be perfect for that.

On a side note, I wonder if VW and apple will eventually team up.
 
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My concerns with any EV are cruising range and how long does it take to charge. I have a Jetta TDI with a highway range of about 800 miles which is great for when the wanderlust hits and I head to far away parts. I have been known to pick up my wife at the airport in LA or SF. We live in the Pittsburgh suburbs.
 
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Thanks for the review. We have a 2019 Tiguan that we like quite a lot, however, I like the idea of having an EV for the around town stuff and a normal car for longer trips. My wife works about 20 minutes away, so it would be perfect for that.

On a side note, I wonder if VW and apple will eventually team up.
one of the few hits VW is taking on this SUV is the entertainment system. But once you use things a few times you'll get to know it.

I still think you'll need two cars...one being an EV. The other option is the Chevy Bolt. They were at $30k or so but have maxed out and no longer qualify for the tax rebate. So Chevy lowered the price to where you can get one ~ $25k. I've also heard it will undergo a redo for 2022 so they may be trying to get the 21s out and of the lot. But $25k for an EV is pretty low.
 
My concerns with any EV are cruising range and how long does it take to charge. I have a Jetta TDI with a highway range of about 800 miles which is great for when the wanderlust hits and I head to far away parts. I have been known to pick up my wife at the airport in LA or SF. We live in the Pittsburgh suburbs.
At home, with 220, you'll get 20 miles per hour recharge. In other words, if you plugged in at 10 PM and then woke up at 6 am to travel, you'd get 160 miles from that night's charge (20 x 8 hours).

Well, at least for me, 250 mile range is pretty good. That is 3 to 4 hours and if you are traveling interstates there is a pretty good compliment of Superchargers along the way. I understand it takes about 40 minutes so stopping for a burger and a recharge isn't out of the question. But if you are a long hauler, the EV still isn't the way to go and won't be for some time. The VW was designed from the ground up to be an EV, rather than retrofitted like many of the others. There is some talk that VW will allow for more than one motor which will improve range. By the end of this year, they will have AWD with a second motor (one front and one back) which is expected to boost the range to near 300.

Also, of note, most of the reviewers are getting the 250 and over under warmer conditions. By that I mean it is expected to drop significantly in really cold weather, like 20 degrees or so.

I often take two or three hour trips (back to PA, or to Columbus). So that's six hours in a day without a supercharger. I can make it on one charge but I get nervous when it gets below 1/4 tank. My cars are never below 1/4.
 
I looked at it but the inside looks like a toy. I wish they would bring the Touareg back to the US. I saw the MACH E this weekend, wanted to test drive it. I'm also not wild about it being electric but my wife said when we travel far we take her car anyway. If Tesla made an SUV that looked like one I'd consider it.
 
and was simply blown away. As I understand it, VW got caught lying about deisel engine performance. They got fined billions and had to commit to some R&D. This is the result. I also understand that VW is trying to restore their name and establish themselves as the EV go-to car. This car comes in at ~ $42k but when you apply the $7500 tax credit is $35k out of pocket. Compare that to the prices for the Ford Mach E (which isn't a mustang, its an SUV) or Testla and it is far lower in price.

  • while I've driven some EV's, this was by far the quietest
  • Today it is RWD with AWD coming but with so much computer assist, over 4,500 lbs and great balance, is AWD needed?
  • 0-60 lags versus a tesla, but it was very comfortable and fine. I mean, how often do you need to blow someone off the line of scrimmage in a car?
  • the roof is all glass. can't put it up but it apparently adds to headroom.
  • Great room in the front and back and still has plenty of storage
  • Seems like just the right video screen. The Mach E and Tesla seem like overkill to me.
  • The balance and safety features of this car are really great.
  • it has a really compact front and, where the motor is, which makes the driver feel like they are in a much smaller vehcle
  • the turning radius is nuts. You can do a U-turn on a normal two-lane road using the shoulder.
I may have to buy one.

id4-leaked-1.jpg


Thoughts?

Burn Volkswagen down to the ground.
 
At home, with 220, you'll get 20 miles per hour recharge. In other words, if you plugged in at 10 PM and then woke up at 6 am to travel, you'd get 160 miles from that night's charge (20 x 8 hours).

Well, at least for me, 250 mile range is pretty good. That is 3 to 4 hours and if you are traveling interstates there is a pretty good compliment of Superchargers along the way. I understand it takes about 40 minutes so stopping for a burger and a recharge isn't out of the question. But if you are a long hauler, the EV still isn't the way to go and won't be for some time. The VW was designed from the ground up to be an EV, rather than retrofitted like many of the others. There is some talk that VW will allow for more than one motor which will improve range. By the end of this year, they will have AWD with a second motor (one front and one back) which is expected to boost the range to near 300.

Also, of note, most of the reviewers are getting the 250 and over under warmer conditions. By that I mean it is expected to drop significantly in really cold weather, like 20 degrees or so.

I often take two or three hour trips (back to PA, or to Columbus). So that's six hours in a day without a supercharger. I can make it on one charge but I get nervous when it gets below 1/4 tank. My cars are never below 1/4.

According to the VW site, there are two levels of at-home L2 charging, 22 or 33 miles per hour of charging depending on the charger you buy. So, a full charge will take either 7.5 or 11.5 hours.

Also, DC fast-charging will be at no cost for three years.
 
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According to the VW site, there are two levels of at-home L2 charging, 22 or 33 miles per hour of charging depending on the charger you buy. So, a full charge will take either 7.5 or 11.5 hours.

Also, DC fast-charging will be at no cost for three years.
I forgot that....and for someone like me that doesn't have an EV, I was surprised to find a dozen within a five mile drive. Meijer, who is fighting Giant Eagle for grocery store biz in my area, is promoting their charging stations big time: do your grocery shopping and recharge for free. You'll be done recharging at the same time you are loading groceries into the trunk.
 
According to the VW site, there are two levels of at-home L2 charging, 22 or 33 miles per hour of charging depending on the charger you buy. So, a full charge will take either 7.5 or 11.5 hours.

Also, DC fast-charging will be at no cost for three years.
How much do the chargers cost? How much does it cost to recharge every night at home for say fifty miles a day?
 
How much do the chargers cost?

varies by where you live, but the average cost is $1,200

(https://www.fixr.com/costs/home-electric-vehicle-charging-station)

How much does it cost to recharge every night at home for say fifty miles a day?

Another question for which there are many variables in the answer. How low is the battery? How much are electricity rates where you charge? Does the electric utility have peak and off-peak rates? Etc.

The US average is $2.50 to recharge a fully depleted battery.

(https://www.fixr.com/costs/home-ele...tation#cost-to-charge-an-electric-car-at-home)
 
How much do the chargers cost? How much does it cost to recharge every night at home for say fifty miles a day?

The one VW sells costs $650, I don't think that includes installation. Costs to charge are dependent on the cost of electricity, battery size and efficiency should be in the ballpark of 3.5 cents per mile.
 
Last edited:
The one VW sells costs $650, I don't think that includes installation. Costs to charge are dependent on the cost of electricity and the battery size, should be in the ballpark of 3.5 cents per mile.
Correct. Cost per mile is typically 20-40% of gas.
 
I was considering the Mustang Mach E. Was talking to my buddy who has owned a Tesla S for 7 or 8 years and he told me to hold off about 3 years, the choices are just starting to get good.
 
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Correct. Cost per mile is typically 20-40% of gas.
Inaccurate comparison..... the electric utility does not have an infrastructures tax for transportation as the petroleum products, yet, what fuels are necessary to develope electric power to the grid? ...fossil and nuclear, the evil necessaries.

No tax on the power consumption of electric vehicles, no money for transportation maintenance and improvements.
 
Inaccurate comparison..... the electric utility does not have an infrastructures tax for transportation as the petroleum products, yet, what fuels are necessary to develope electric power to the grid? ...fossil and nuclear, the evil necessaries.

No tax on the power consumption of electric vehicles, no money for transportation maintenance and improvements.
While you are right that state governments will eventually tax electric cars to support transportation infrastructure- that is doesn’t change the fact that the current energy cost to the consumer per mile for EVs is 60 to 80% cheaper than gas cars.

What’s missing from your analysis is that electric motors are 3x more energy efficient than internal combustion engines. Electric motors are +90% efficient while internal combustion engines run at 20-35% efficiency. So even if you assume new taxes will come in, there is a large net energy consumption savings that will continue to result in significantly lower running costs to the consumer. Add in the lower maintenance costs and there is a very compelling economic case for most drivers.

And, since you decided to go there...yes, EVs are not inherently emissions free. Their carbon footprint is a reflection of the ‘cleanliness’ of the electric grid at the location and time of charging. Fortunately the grid gets cleaner every day (the grid has a 30% lower carbon intensity today compared to 20 years ago; driven primarily by coal plants being replaced by a mix of NG and solar) so an EV purchased today will be more ‘green’ in 10 years than on the day of purchase. When you buy a gas car, you’re locked into a set emissions profile for the life of the car.
 
Will charging stations also have a tire & rim repair service until the EV's are paying for transportation taxes?


April 5, 2021, 10:22 AM

The Future of Electric Vehicles Is Highly Flammable
Before you buy a shiny new electric car, you might want to invest in a few fire extinguishers as well.

YouTube screenshot
Screen-Shot-2021-04-02-at-12.25.04-PM-e1617381050985.png


The infamously exploding Ford Pinto was recalled because of a design defect with the Pinto — its proclivity to burn when hit from behind.

Electric cars have this defect designed into them.

All of them.

And, unlike with the Pinto, you don’t have to get hit — or hit anything — for an electric car to burn. The things can, and have, caught fire when parked. Actually, “caught” is not the right word to describe what happens.

Spontaneous combustion is better.

That’s because of the nature and design of electric car batteries, which are not like the small 12-volt battery that starts the engine of a non-electric car. That battery is generally lead-acid, and fires are rare because a fire would require two things: a spark — as caused by jumper cables contacting the battery’s terminals — and leaking hydrogen gas. If both of those predicates aren’t present, a 12-volt starter battery fire is highly improbable.

The fulsome, scurvy truth is that all EVs should be recalled because they are all fire-prone, by design.
These kinds of fires are almost unheard of nowadays because almost all 12-volt starter batteries made since the ’90s are sealed. Hence, no gas can escape, all but eliminating the possibility of a fire ignited by a spark during a jump-start operation.

You can break the case of a 12-volt starter battery, and it will leak — but not burn.


Electric car batteries, on the other hand, are very high-voltage batteries — 400 volts is typical; 800 volts is becoming common — and they are fire-prone by design.

A process called thermal runaway can trigger a fire without a spark — or an impact. This most commonly happens when the electric car is being charged, and it is why electric car fast-charging is always a potential fire problem.

With every electric car.

This is why “fast” recharging is slow compared to refueling, which takes less than five minutes without any risk of fire from the pumping of fuel. But the “pumping” of volts is always a fire risk; it causes the battery to get hot, and that can lead not just to a fire but a very hot and hard-to-extinguish fire.

Sometimes it takes several tries to extinguish the fire, which can restart itself. Roasted electric vehicles have re-roasted themselves after the melted and presumably extinguished hulk was dragged onto a flatbed, or at the junkyard, where special fire-containment systems are being installed to deal with this problem.

This is why “fast” charging of electric vehicles (EVs) takes 20 to 30 minutes or longer, and also why the charge is not to “full.” When you “fast” charge an EV, you only partially charge it — to about 80 percent of capacity in most cases. This is a necessary precautionary measure to reduce the risk of a fire.

Which also reduces the EV’s range, and so necessitates another (and sooner) recharge.

But it does not eliminate the risk, which is inherent. And which will in all probability increase as “fast” charging increases, despite the fact that it is more risky, as far as risking thermal runaway, than letting the battery charge slowly, such as by plugging in to low-voltage household (120-volt) current.

The problem with that, of course, is that it takes several (6 to 12) hours to recharge an electric car’s batteries that way, and most people do not want to wait that long or plan their lives around recharging. It hasn’t been an obvious issue — yet — because electric cars are still only about 1 percent of the total number of cars in service, and most of the people who currently own electric cars are zealous about electric cars. They’re willing to put up with the car’s deficits because they are so enamored of the cars themselves.

But most people who just want a car to work are not likely to be willing to tolerate such waits and will insist on “fast” and faster charging, in order to avoid the wait. And they will be “fast” charging more frequently.

This will almost certainly increase the number of thermal runaway fires and deaths. There will also be more accidents involving electric cars as more and more electric cars are force-fed into the pipeline thanks to the Biden–Harris administration’s “mandates” (and determination to install more “fast” chargers).

There is also a higher fire risk when an EV hits something — or is hit by something — for the same thermal runaway reason. The battery pack’s case is damaged or the internal cells are compromised. The materials within short circuit and voila: flambée.

This risk is, again, higher with EVs because it does not take a spark to ignite the fire, as it does with a gasoline fire. A non-electric car can be hit hard enough to deform or even puncture its gas tank, and even if there is a leak a fire is not inevitable unless there is also a spark.

But an EV battery can combust simply as a result of being hit. And it is more likely to be damaged in any accident because the battery is everywhere. Unlike a gas tank — which is usually located ahead of the rear axle and thus both isolated to that part of the car and protected by the surrounding structure of the car — an EV’s battery is spread out over most of the car’s floorpan, necessary because of its huge size (a Tesla 3 has 1,000 pounds of batteries). That means a frontal or side or rear impact can damage the battery and trigger a fire, whereas with a gas tank, the car usually has to be hit in the rear to cause any damage to the tank.

And even then, you still need a spark.

EV battery fires are the most under-reported and reluctantly recalled design defect in the history of the car.

The latest recall is a big one, though.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), which is the federal “safety” apparat, has finally had to do something about self-immolating Hyundai Kona and Ioniq electric cars. The fire risk from thermal runaway is so great that over 80,000 of these things are being recalled, and NHTSA exhorts owners that in the meanwhile, “the safest place to park them is outside and away from homes and other structures.”

But the fulsome, scurvy truth is that all EVs should be recalled because they are all fire-prone, by design.

Not that it matters. “Safety” is just a bogey, selectively applied — when it suits. And right now, it does not suit, because electric cars are the vehicle for getting the masses out of cars by making cars too expensive for most people to own. They’ll also help in getting the mobility of the masses under strict control, since they’re electronically as well as remotely controllable.

What’s a few eggs broken when you’re making such a tasty omelette?
 
Will charging stations also have a tire & rim repair service until the EV's are paying for transportation taxes?


April 5, 2021, 10:22 AM

The Future of Electric Vehicles Is Highly Flammable
Before you buy a shiny new electric car, you might want to invest in a few fire extinguishers as well.

YouTube screenshot
Screen-Shot-2021-04-02-at-12.25.04-PM-e1617381050985.png


The infamously exploding Ford Pinto was recalled because of a design defect with the Pinto — its proclivity to burn when hit from behind.

Electric cars have this defect designed into them.

All of them.

And, unlike with the Pinto, you don’t have to get hit — or hit anything — for an electric car to burn. The things can, and have, caught fire when parked. Actually, “caught” is not the right word to describe what happens.

Spontaneous combustion is better.

That’s because of the nature and design of electric car batteries, which are not like the small 12-volt battery that starts the engine of a non-electric car. That battery is generally lead-acid, and fires are rare because a fire would require two things: a spark — as caused by jumper cables contacting the battery’s terminals — and leaking hydrogen gas. If both of those predicates aren’t present, a 12-volt starter battery fire is highly improbable.


These kinds of fires are almost unheard of nowadays because almost all 12-volt starter batteries made since the ’90s are sealed. Hence, no gas can escape, all but eliminating the possibility of a fire ignited by a spark during a jump-start operation.

You can break the case of a 12-volt starter battery, and it will leak — but not burn.


Electric car batteries, on the other hand, are very high-voltage batteries — 400 volts is typical; 800 volts is becoming common — and they are fire-prone by design.

A process called thermal runaway can trigger a fire without a spark — or an impact. This most commonly happens when the electric car is being charged, and it is why electric car fast-charging is always a potential fire problem.

With every electric car.

This is why “fast” recharging is slow compared to refueling, which takes less than five minutes without any risk of fire from the pumping of fuel. But the “pumping” of volts is always a fire risk; it causes the battery to get hot, and that can lead not just to a fire but a very hot and hard-to-extinguish fire.

Sometimes it takes several tries to extinguish the fire, which can restart itself. Roasted electric vehicles have re-roasted themselves after the melted and presumably extinguished hulk was dragged onto a flatbed, or at the junkyard, where special fire-containment systems are being installed to deal with this problem.

This is why “fast” charging of electric vehicles (EVs) takes 20 to 30 minutes or longer, and also why the charge is not to “full.” When you “fast” charge an EV, you only partially charge it — to about 80 percent of capacity in most cases. This is a necessary precautionary measure to reduce the risk of a fire.

Which also reduces the EV’s range, and so necessitates another (and sooner) recharge.

But it does not eliminate the risk, which is inherent. And which will in all probability increase as “fast” charging increases, despite the fact that it is more risky, as far as risking thermal runaway, than letting the battery charge slowly, such as by plugging in to low-voltage household (120-volt) current.

The problem with that, of course, is that it takes several (6 to 12) hours to recharge an electric car’s batteries that way, and most people do not want to wait that long or plan their lives around recharging. It hasn’t been an obvious issue — yet — because electric cars are still only about 1 percent of the total number of cars in service, and most of the people who currently own electric cars are zealous about electric cars. They’re willing to put up with the car’s deficits because they are so enamored of the cars themselves.

But most people who just want a car to work are not likely to be willing to tolerate such waits and will insist on “fast” and faster charging, in order to avoid the wait. And they will be “fast” charging more frequently.

This will almost certainly increase the number of thermal runaway fires and deaths. There will also be more accidents involving electric cars as more and more electric cars are force-fed into the pipeline thanks to the Biden–Harris administration’s “mandates” (and determination to install more “fast” chargers).

There is also a higher fire risk when an EV hits something — or is hit by something — for the same thermal runaway reason. The battery pack’s case is damaged or the internal cells are compromised. The materials within short circuit and voila: flambée.

This risk is, again, higher with EVs because it does not take a spark to ignite the fire, as it does with a gasoline fire. A non-electric car can be hit hard enough to deform or even puncture its gas tank, and even if there is a leak a fire is not inevitable unless there is also a spark.

But an EV battery can combust simply as a result of being hit. And it is more likely to be damaged in any accident because the battery is everywhere. Unlike a gas tank — which is usually located ahead of the rear axle and thus both isolated to that part of the car and protected by the surrounding structure of the car — an EV’s battery is spread out over most of the car’s floorpan, necessary because of its huge size (a Tesla 3 has 1,000 pounds of batteries). That means a frontal or side or rear impact can damage the battery and trigger a fire, whereas with a gas tank, the car usually has to be hit in the rear to cause any damage to the tank.

And even then, you still need a spark.

EV battery fires are the most under-reported and reluctantly recalled design defect in the history of the car.

The latest recall is a big one, though.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), which is the federal “safety” apparat, has finally had to do something about self-immolating Hyundai Kona and Ioniq electric cars. The fire risk from thermal runaway is so great that over 80,000 of these things are being recalled, and NHTSA exhorts owners that in the meanwhile, “the safest place to park them is outside and away from homes and other structures.”

But the fulsome, scurvy truth is that all EVs should be recalled because they are all fire-prone, by design.

Not that it matters. “Safety” is just a bogey, selectively applied — when it suits. And right now, it does not suit, because electric cars are the vehicle for getting the masses out of cars by making cars too expensive for most people to own. They’ll also help in getting the mobility of the masses under strict control, since they’re electronically as well as remotely controllable.

What’s a few eggs broken when you’re making such a tasty omelette?
That is a cute story - too bad they forgot to mention that gas cars are 4x more likely to catch fire than electric cars.
 
VW gives you three years free at these charging networks. I don't think they are exclusive to Tesla.
Tesla has about 1000 proprietary supercharger stations in the US - they are only for Teslas. Electricity America is an ‘open network’ (any EV can charge there) funded by VW’s diesel scandal fine. It has 600 stations and is growing quickly. The VW 3 year promo is for access to the Electrify American network. So because Teslas can charge on either their own network or open networks, Tesla owners have access to many more fast charging options currently. That advantage will diminish in a few years as Electrify America and ChargePoint grow.
 
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Tesla has about 1000 proprietary supercharger stations in the US - they are only for Teslas. Electricity America is an ‘open network’ (any EV can charge there) funded by VW’s diesel scandal fine. It has 600 stations and is growing quickly. The VW 3 year promo is for access to the Electrify American network. So because Teslas can charge on either their own network or open networks, Tesla owners have access to many more fast charging options currently. That advantage will diminish in a few years as Electrify America and ChargePoint grow.
thank you for that. a VW can still recharge on the Testla network but will have to pay, correct? It is free for three years at the VW ones. How can you tell the difference or search for the one's you want?
 
That is a cute story - too bad they forgot to mention that gas cars are 4x more likely to catch fire than electric cars.
Possibly because 2-3 % of the cars on the road are EVs?


Nice article concerning EVs:
Unfortunately at age 72 and just purchasing a Chrysler 300 Limited an EV is not in my future 😟

Should I Buy an Electric Car in 2021?​

John M. Vincent | February 12, 2021

LINK:
"While charging at home is typically cheaper than buying gas to cover an equivalent distance, the math can change if you're using a public charging station or have to pay to park at a charging station.

Charging station companies bill in a couple of ways. In some places, you'll be billed by time. The longer you spend at the charger, the more expensive it will be. It's like going to a gas station and being charged the same amount whether your car takes 10 gallons of gas in five minutes or 20 gallons in five minutes.

If you're at a charging station that charges by time, the faster your electric car's charging capability, the less the recharge will cost. As most electric cars pass 80% of their battery capacity, their rate of charge slows dramatically. It can take as long or longer to fill the last 20% of the battery as the first 80%. When you're at a station priced by the minute, that last 20% can get expensive.

In other places, you'll be charged by the amount of energy your car takes, measured in kilowatt-hours (kWh). That's typically a fairer way to price the cost of energy, and it's more like the per-gallon price you pay at a gas station. In some states, however, electric car charging companies are prohibited from selling by the quantity of electricity provided.

Here's where the math can get even messier for electric cars. When the temperature is low, their ranges are reduced. An example we recently experienced had the fully charged 2020 Audi e-tron only travel 60 miles before taking a recharge to 100% that cost $12 at an Electrify America DC fast-charging station. A similarly sized 2021 Audi Q5 gasoline-powered luxury compact SUV getting 28 mpg on the highway would have covered that distance with just over 2 gallons of gas, costing around half the price of the charge."


"Let's face it, no fuel or technology is free of environmental impacts. Depending on where you live, your electric car is likely powered by coal, natural gas, wind, solar, hydroelectric, or nuclear power. Coal and natural gas power generation plants produce significant quantities of greenhouse gases and other pollutants.

Hydroelectric plants (dams) interfere with the passage of fish, while windmills have been linked to the death of birds. Nuclear energy generates deadly hazardous waste and comes with epic political headaches.

There's even disagreement over whether the U.S. electric grid has the capacity to support the widespread adoption of electric vehicles.

EV advocates contend that these issues and pollutants are better managed at large centralized facilities, rather than at the tailpipes of every car in American cities. Air quality in cities is improved by moving the sources of the pollution outside of population centers.

There's also the life cycle cost of electric vehicle batteries. The exotic raw materials used in their production have to be mined, refined, and assembled using supply chains that span the earth. Many aspects of that process occur outside the purview of the United States' strict environmental protections. At the end of a vehicle's life, the battery pack needs to be recycled or repurposed, and the infrastructure to do so has yet to be developed.

Do the negatives of owning an electric car outweigh the positives? That's a question there's no simple answer to, though an increasing number of researchers believe they do."
 
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EV battery fires are the most under-reported and reluctantly recalled design defect in the history of the car.

The latest recall is a big one, though.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), which is the federal “safety” apparat, has finally had to do something about self-immolating Hyundai Kona and Ioniq electric cars. The fire risk from thermal runaway is so great that over 80,000 of these things are being recalled, and NHTSA exhorts owners that in the meanwhile, “the safest place to park them is outside and away from homes and other structures.”
5000 electric cars and 100,000+ gas powered cars from Hyundai were recalled. Failed to mention that there are NO confirmed cases of electric fires caused by the potential short in the US.

Thanks for playing.
 
5000 electric cars and 100,000+ gas powered cars from Hyundai were recalled. Failed to mention that there are NO confirmed cases of electric fires caused by the potential short in the US.

Thanks for playing.
PLAYING? Na, sorting out the pros & cons of owning an EV during the next decade. At this current time, EVs are not the panacea for a cleaner environment, 10-15 yrs in the future as technology develops advanced methods for re-cycling the batteries at a reasonable cost, now it is about four times the cost than mining the lithium and making new batteries......

Hyundai is recalling more than 80,000 EVs over battery fire concerns
LINK: https://www.theverge.com/2021/3/29/22357068/hyundai-kona-ev-recall-battery-fire-nhtsa

"Hyundai is the latest automaker to issue a voluntary recall due to battery defects. Last year, GM said it would recall nearly 69,000 Chevy Bolts, and Audi recalled over 500 E-Tron SUVs, both over risks for battery fires. China’s Nio recalled nearly 5,000 of its ES8 electric SUVs after multiple reports of battery fires surfaced in 2019."

"There’s no evidence that electric vehicles catch fire at a rate that’s any different from internal combustion cars, but the topic has received increased scrutiny as more EVs hit the road. First responders are even being trained to handle EV battery fires since they can’t be extinguished via some traditional methods."

"Last month, Hyundai announced that it would recall some 76,000 Kona EVs built between 2018 and 2020 over battery fire concerns. It was the second recall for the Kona but the first one that was global in nature. The automaker also said it would recall some Ioniqs and electric buses that it manufactures. In total, Hyundai said it would recall 82,000 vehicles, which it estimates will cost $900 million."
 
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thank you for that. a VW can still recharge on the Testla network but will have to pay, correct? It is free for three years at the VW ones. How can you tell the difference or search for the one's you want?
Basically, a Tesla is able to charge at any charging station (Tesla or non-Tesla branded charging station). A non-Tesla cannot charge at a Tesla “Supercharger station”. There are some Tesla branded non-Supercharger locations (destination chargers) that can be accessed by non-Tesla vehicles if you have an adapter plug.

There are Apps available such as Plugshare that show nearby charging stations and let you filter stations that will work for your car.

There’s a bit of a learning curve with all this stuff since unfortunately, the various manufacturers didn’t develop a common charging solution and you may need to carry around adapters and such.
 
Possibly because 2-3 % of the cars on the road are EVs?


Nice article concerning EVs:
Unfortunately at age 72 and just purchasing a Chrysler 300 Limited an EV is not in my future 😟

Should I Buy an Electric Car in 2021?​

John M. Vincent | February 12, 2021

LINK:
"While charging at home is typically cheaper than buying gas to cover an equivalent distance, the math can change if you're using a public charging station or have to pay to park at a charging station.

Charging station companies bill in a couple of ways. In some places, you'll be billed by time. The longer you spend at the charger, the more expensive it will be. It's like going to a gas station and being charged the same amount whether your car takes 10 gallons of gas in five minutes or 20 gallons in five minutes.

If you're at a charging station that charges by time, the faster your electric car's charging capability, the less the recharge will cost. As most electric cars pass 80% of their battery capacity, their rate of charge slows dramatically. It can take as long or longer to fill the last 20% of the battery as the first 80%. When you're at a station priced by the minute, that last 20% can get expensive.

In other places, you'll be charged by the amount of energy your car takes, measured in kilowatt-hours (kWh). That's typically a fairer way to price the cost of energy, and it's more like the per-gallon price you pay at a gas station. In some states, however, electric car charging companies are prohibited from selling by the quantity of electricity provided.

Here's where the math can get even messier for electric cars. When the temperature is low, their ranges are reduced. An example we recently experienced had the fully charged 2020 Audi e-tron only travel 60 miles before taking a recharge to 100% that cost $12 at an Electrify America DC fast-charging station. A similarly sized 2021 Audi Q5 gasoline-powered luxury compact SUV getting 28 mpg on the highway would have covered that distance with just over 2 gallons of gas, costing around half the price of the charge."


"Let's face it, no fuel or technology is free of environmental impacts. Depending on where you live, your electric car is likely powered by coal, natural gas, wind, solar, hydroelectric, or nuclear power. Coal and natural gas power generation plants produce significant quantities of greenhouse gases and other pollutants.

Hydroelectric plants (dams) interfere with the passage of fish, while windmills have been linked to the death of birds. Nuclear energy generates deadly hazardous waste and comes with epic political headaches.

There's even disagreement over whether the U.S. electric grid has the capacity to support the widespread adoption of electric vehicles.

EV advocates contend that these issues and pollutants are better managed at large centralized facilities, rather than at the tailpipes of every car in American cities. Air quality in cities is improved by moving the sources of the pollution outside of population centers.

There's also the life cycle cost of electric vehicle batteries. The exotic raw materials used in their production have to be mined, refined, and assembled using supply chains that span the earth. Many aspects of that process occur outside the purview of the United States' strict environmental protections. At the end of a vehicle's life, the battery pack needs to be recycled or repurposed, and the infrastructure to do so has yet to be developed.

Do the negatives of owning an electric car outweigh the positives? That's a question there's no simple answer to, though an increasing number of researchers believe they do."
You bought a drug dealer car lmao. Tell me it’s black w tint
 
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