Interesting results from the last weekend of duals

[McScoreley]

I’m pretty confident Cael had Arnold down the priority list. Dude is so short and stubby, he needs one of those pickers old people use to initiate an ankle pick.

Give me the lanky, noodly-armed guys any day.

And Kolby Franklin was never a priority.

Kolby Franklin pretty much invited himself to an OV lol and acted like in his interview after committing to Iowa that Cael was disappointed he picked them

A lot of wrestlers want to give the appearance of rejecting PSU. Like oh they wanted me but I didn't want them. TJ Stewart's dad said something similar but Cael offered a partial and on the condition that he greyshirts (when some money is off the books after 2023, I imagine RBY's money) They didn't pick between a PSU and Virginia Tech full ride.

Wittlake told the story of flipping from PSU to Oklahoma State, obviously he left out he committed and Cael didn't seem to care too much.

Speaking of making Gabe's Top 5, you know who didn't make Sealey's Top 5? Iowa. Interesting, after taking a visit there and apparently Iowa being in the drivers seat, they fell behind PSU, UNC, Lehigh, Stanford, Nebraska.

 

[El-Jefe]

I'll defend Gabe's dad words here. He didn't say PSU's team was racist (that would be hard to narrative to sell considering 70% of our lineup is minorities) He is saying our black wrestlers have experienced racism at PSU and I'm sure they have, there are jagoffs at every campus including PSU and he said that to counter the idea that Iowa fans are racist. That being said, he referred to our team as "clowns" before so he clearly has an axe to grind.

I agree he was not a priority recruit here. They never even took an OV, they took an unofficial on their own dime, probably hoping to be pampered to by Cael and they weren't. To my knowledge, have we ever had a recruit who missed weight in HS at a major tournament? Cael is big on discipline and doing the right things off the mat. Others have mentioned, he doesn't quite have the build Cael looks for in his upper weights. Mark Hall was even longer and taller than Gabe (with 100x the skills) and he struggled getting to his offense at times in college (mostly against Zahid but he did struggle to get to his offense against lesser opponents as well)

Those words aren't defensible.

The context is: they chose Iowa over PSU for the culture. The obvious implication is that Iowa is less racist than PSU.

If he didn't mean that, or it wasn't pertinent to the Iowa culture, then he shouldn't have said it.

And if he did mean it, then he drew attention to the many public examples of bad behavior in Iowa City.

 

[El-Jefe]

Speaking of making Gabe's Top 5, you know who didn't make Sealey's Top 5? Iowa. Interesting, after taking a visit there and apparently Iowa being in the drivers seat, they fell behind PSU, UNC, Lehigh, Stanford, Nebraska.

Iowa didn't make Mark Hall's top 5 either.

 

[Cowbell Man]

he's been bad today, but he also owes the hawks a lot of make up calls from over the years. i thought we were rid of him this year.

He’s been bad today. Lol. If you had said he’s been good today, that would be a surprise. Otherwise, he’s bad every day.

 

[El-Jefe]

Kolby Franklin pretty much invited himself to an OV lol and acted like in his interview after committing to Iowa that Cael was disappointed he picked them

Franklin got squeezed out of Seminary's lineup last year, and Cael was disappointed to lose him? Okay ...

 

[johnstownsteel]

Franklin got squeezed out of Seminary's lineup last year, and Cael was disappointed to lose him? Okay ...

Wasn't it a freshman or sophomore that beat him out. A great one I know but still...

 

[mjmirv]

His "data matrix" comparing PSU & Iowa since 2011 or so. Champs & AAs from 57 up. PSU had better numbers in both, but the better stats came from fewer guys or something like that. His matrix proved, to him, that Iowa developed those weights better than PSU. His Iowa champ count in his data was 9 I think. My "data matrix" counted one, St John. The GIA hawk guys fired off their most knowledgeable likes for his matrix and counting abilities.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Culture was the foremost driver in choosing Iowa. He posted the other deciding factor in choosing Iowa. His "data matrix" comparing PSU & Iowa since 2011 or so. Champs & AAs from 57 up. PSU had better numbers in both, but the better stats came from fewer guys or something like that. His matrix proved, to him, that Iowa developed those weights better than PSU. His Iowa champ count in his data was 9 I think. My "data matrix" counted one, St John. The GIA hawk guys fired off their most knowledgeable likes for his matrix and counting abilities.

Lol. I missed all that.

 

[AgSurfer]

Yeah, nothing is an absolute lock, of course. That’s why they hold the matches. Lee losing would be an upset on par with Owings over Gable, though.

Not dumping on Lee here - he's obviously a terrific competitor. But going into his match against Owings, Gable had a one of a kind record that even Cael couldn't claim. Gable was completely undefeated during 4 years in HS and 4 years in college. He was only a 3X NCAA finalist because freshmen weren't permitted to compete at that point in time, but he did win the Midlands as a freshman against some top level competition. Owings once made a comment that there were only two people in the gym that night that thought he had a chance to win. One of them was him and the other was Gable, which had something to do with why he lost. To this day, I still think it's the most exciting single match that I've ever experienced.

PS - Owings was wrong. I was with a group of 5 guys that night, and all of us thought he had a pretty decent chance because he had wrestled so well up to that point in the tournament.

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

I’m not sure how everyone keeps saying Warner is an AA lock. He has not looked great this year and is ranked #12. Lost to a couple guys he absolutely should’ve beat. I think because he made the finals last year everyone is just assuming he will perform when it counts but watching him wrestle this season he is a fringe AA right now. If he does place I wouldn’t be surprised but if he bombs out I wouldn’t be surprised either

He looks like a guy that is just tired of the grind.

 

[nitlion6]

Keep it close with Woods, be on top in 2nd with tough ride. You'll have a chance in 3rd. I think he is cutting pretty hard.

I haven't seen Woods look tired for over a month. He certainly did not look tired in the dual meet. To beat Woods Bartlett will need to do way more than outlast him, he will need to outwrestle him for 7 minutes or more.

 

[nitlion6]

Wittlake almost went to PSU looks like PSU is the winner on this!

He might have developed differently at PSU.

 

[nitlion6]

I think that Travis' injury played a big part in us getting Aaron Brooks. If I recall correctly Wittlake was slated to wrestle at cadet/junior worlds (i forget which), but wasn't able to attend. Brooks ended up being the rep that year (again my memory is a tiny bit fuzzy on this so I could be wrong on some of the details), but Aaron went on to medal and he was at Penn State not long after. If Travis had gone and achieved a similar result, I think there's a pretty good shot we would have gotten him. I, however, can't speak to what Cael thought of both of those wrestlers at the time, but I imagine Brooks showing out on such a big stage was a part of why we went with him over Travis.

Aaron won gold that year, I think he won bronze the year after.

 

[Foreverinbluejeans57]

He might have developed differently at PSU.

If I do recall he would have been helpful last time we didn’t win the National Title

 

[slushhead]

Not dumping on Lee here - he's obviously a terrific competitor. But going into his match against Owings, Gable had a one of a kind record that even Cael couldn't claim. Gable was completely undefeated during 4 years in HS and 4 years in college. He was only a 3X NCAA finalist because freshmen weren't permitted to compete at that point in time, but he did win the Midlands as a freshman against some top level competition. Owings once made a comment that there were only two people in the gym that night that thought he had a chance to win. One of them was him and the other was Gable, which had something to do with why he lost. To this day, I still think it's the most exciting single match that I've ever experienced.

PS - Owings was wrong. I was with a group of 5 guys that night, and all of us thought he had a pretty decent chance because he had wrestled so well up to that point in the tournament.

Plus, despite his absolute dominance 95% of the time, Lee has shown serious vulnerability 5% (or more?) of the time, even in a meaningful number of wins. I’m not sure he is on the level of Gable in that respect.

 

[El-Jefe]

Wasn't it a freshman or sophomore that beat him out. A great one I know but still...

195 Frable (Army)
215 Darrah (Stanford)
285 Moehring (Sacred Heart)

All 3 were seniors last year and placed 3rd or 4th at national preps.

 

[nitlion6]

If I do recall he would have been helpful last time we didn’t win the National Title

If he had maintained 165, 16.5 points from our 165 pound wrestler to go along with our 4 national champs would have caused Terry's head to spin off into space.

 

[El-Jefe]

If I do recall he would have been helpful last time we didn’t win the National Title

If he were still at 165 away from Stilly, then yes.

174, less so.

 

[johnstownsteel]

195 Frable (Army)
215 Darrah (Stanford)
285 Moehring (Sacred Heart)

All 3 were seniors last year and placed 3rd or 4th at national preps.

Oh OK. Not sure why I was thinking Correa beat him for his spot

 

[zzs006]

195 Frable (Army)
215 Darrah (Stanford)
285 Moehring (Sacred Heart)

All 3 were seniors last year and placed 3rd or 4th at national preps.

Was Correa not at 195 last year? I’m assuming that’s who he was thinking pushed Franklin out

 

[El-Jefe]

Correa wrestled 182 all year, with the exception of some matches at 189/190 where that weight class was used. No matches at 195.

PA-Wrestling.com : Your online resource for Pennsylvania Wrestling

www.pa-wrestling.com

 

[Pitchfork Rebel]

Plus, despite his absolute dominance 95% of the time, Lee has shown serious vulnerability 5% (or more?) of the time, even in a meaningful number of wins. I’m not sure he is on the level of Gable in that respect.

While nobody should underestimate Lee, his pin on Sunday was the result of somebody swinging for the fences-because he has demonstrated that vulnerability. It's not likely, but it's possible he gets thrown and pinned-IF somebody executes it perfectly. Ramos got close.

Plus he's borrring. TD, tilt, tilt, tilt, tilt.. TF. Hey, it works, so I get it. I just prefer the insane stuff that Nickal and Nolf launched.

 

[PSUcup1]

While nobody should underestimate Lee, his pin on Sunday was the result of somebody swinging for the fences-because he has demonstrated that vulnerability. It's not likely, but it's possible he gets thrown and pinned-IF somebody executes it perfectly. Ramos got close.

Plus he's borrring. TD, tilt, tilt, tilt, tilt.. TF. Hey, it works, so I get it. I just prefer the insane stuff that Nickal and Nolf launched.

Boring?? Come on …

 

[slushhead]

While nobody should underestimate Lee, his pin on Sunday was the result of somebody swinging for the fences-because he has demonstrated that vulnerability. It's not likely, but it's possible he gets thrown and pinned-IF somebody executes it perfectly. Ramos got close.

Plus he's borrring. TD, tilt, tilt, tilt, tilt.. TF. Hey, it works, so I get it. I just prefer the insane stuff that Nickal and Nolf launched.

And Joseph, and Q. Feet-to-back maneuvers trump tilts all day every day.

And Dean, and Retherford, and McIntosh. Bows-and-arrows trump tilts all day every day.

And Ruth. Cradles-from-all-angles trump
tilts all day every day.

And Taylor. There’s something magical about a perfectly executed pick.

I like our guys.

 

[AgSurfer]

I like our guys.

Plus the fact that our guys were TEAM players that put together multiple back to back national TEAM championships.

 

[tullfan68]

I'll defend Gabe's dad words here. He didn't say PSU's team was racist (that would be hard to narrative to sell considering 70% of our lineup is minorities) He is saying our black wrestlers have experienced racism at PSU and I'm sure they have, there are jagoffs at every campus including PSU and he said that to counter the idea that Iowa fans are racist. That being said, he referred to our team as "clowns" before so he clearly has an axe to grind.

I agree he was not a priority recruit here. They never even took an OV, they took an unofficial on their own dime, probably hoping to be pampered to by Cael and they weren't. To my knowledge, have we ever had a recruit who missed weight in HS at a major tournament? Cael is big on discipline and doing the right things off the mat. Others have mentioned, he doesn't quite have the build Cael looks for in his upper weights. Mark Hall was even longer and taller than Gabe (with 100x the skills) and he struggled getting to his offense at times in college (mostly against Zahid but he did struggle to get to his offense against lesser opponents as well)

LOL let his son wrestle Ed Ruth and we will see who the clown is!!

 

[El-Jefe]

And Joseph, and Q. Feet-to-back maneuvers trump tilts all day every day.

And Dean, and Retherford, and McIntosh. Bows-and-arrows trump tilts all day every day.

And Ruth. Cradles-from-all-angles trump
tilts all day every day.

And Taylor. There’s something magical about a perfectly executed pick.

I like our guys.

Lee's top arsenal is essentially the same as Stieber's: reinforced bar for tilts, bar + half for pins.

The difference is that Stieber went for pins earlier in matches, and more frequently.

 

[AgSurfer]

Lee's top arsenal is essentially the same as Stieber's: reinforced bar for tilts, bar + half for pins.

The difference is that Stieber went for pins earlier in matches, and more frequently.

No - the difference is that Stieber was very good, but even the most insufferable Buckeye fan was not so biased as to call Stieber the GOAT in spite of his several losses including one to our own ZR. 😈

 

[82bordeaux]

No - the difference is that Stieber was very good, but even the most insufferable Buckeye fan was not so biased as to call Stieber the GOAT in spite of his several losses including one to our own ZR.

But he didn't have as many losses as Lee!

 

[ss7]

But he didn't have as many losses as Lee!

But how many "Not Sick" (or otherwise somehow excusable) losses did he have?

 

[82bordeaux]

But how many "Not Sick" (or otherwise somehow excusable) losses did he have?

 

[nerfstate]

But how many "Not Sick" (or otherwise somehow excusable) losses did he have?

Love your new Shaqatar, ss!

 

[District four]

Plays right into Matthews' hands, if they're on the same side of the bracket.

I'll take Matthews in a close match everytime between those two lol

 

[The Kid Twist]

Those words aren't defensible.

The context is: they chose Iowa over PSU for the culture. The obvious implication is that Iowa is less racist than PSU.

If he didn't mean that, or it wasn't pertinent to the Iowa culture, then he shouldn't have said it.

And if he did mean it, then he drew attention to the many public examples of bad behavior in Iowa City.

LOL!! Yeah you can see that Iowa line-up is loaded with black wrestlers!!!!

 

[District four]

LOL!! Yeah you can see that Iowa line-up is loaded with black wrestlers!!!!

Right. It's noticably lacking in minority wrestlers and has been for years.

 

[Petch]

Right. It's noticably lacking in minority wrestlers and has been for years.

Well, there is that one chubby little dude that’s always jumping around behind their bench and mugging for the camera during their home meets. He’s even more annoying than Moriah.

 

[PSU Mike]

LOL let his son wrestle Ed Ruth and we will see who the clown is!!

Interesting you bring up Ruth, given he’s the star that stuck around for about the least amount of time after graduation.

 

[dpd926]

Lee is a 3x returning NCAA champ who hasn’t lost a folk style match in over 4 calendar years. There’s no chance of him losing - just like him going into the state finals as a senior with an undefeated career record, wrestling a kid he teched the year before. Zero chance.

 

[amattaro]

Plus, despite his absolute dominance 95% of the time, Lee has shown serious vulnerability 5% (or more?) of the time, even in a meaningful number of wins. I’m not sure he is on the level of Gable in that respect.

And despite his absolute dominance, Jason Nolf has a higher bonus rate by 5.78 percentage points.

#NeverSeenAnythingLikeSpencer

 

[jmadden1998]

LOL! I noticed him too! I looked him up. He is on the squad from Cali at I think 141. I loved to see him get smashed! Have you seen Moriah lately? Old eyes to close together knocked her up and she is as big as house!! She better be having triplets with the amount of weight she put on! I feel bad when the get that sonogram and the doctor has to tell them. I am so sorry but we have to inform you that you will be giving birth to a cyclops!!!!!

@nitlion6 now here is an example of the deep thinking posts I come to this board to read.