Iowa Dual - Coach's Decision

[RoarLions1]

Coach could go full-unCael, and force a random draw for Friday evening's match order. If there's a time to do it, I'm thinking this is it. Not favored at 125 or 133, and close to a toss-up at 141. Thoughts?? My thinking is two-fold...first, grab the momentum early, which could happen at any start other than 125 or 133. Second, gives our very-talented true freshman a chance to get the feel of the place.

 

[pawrestlersintn]

Was thinking about this during my drive time today. Brands would never be expecting it, which would fire him up from the get go. 125, if it goes our way, could lead to an absolute dismantling of Iowa. But, if it goes their way, could lead to big momentum for them.
I think he does it. In fact, someone should make sure the idea is in his head during the radio show, even if he doesn't answer the question. Hint. Hint.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

Coach could go full-unCael, and force a random draw for Friday evening's match order. If there's a time to do it, I'm thinking this is it. Not favored at 125 or 133, and close to a toss-up at 141. Thoughts?? My thinking is two-fold...first, grab the momentum early, which could happen at any start other than 125 or 133. Second, gives our very-talented true freshman a chance to get the feel of the place.

I'd be surprised if he does it. Would imagine he'll start at 125 and say if we're gonnna beat them we have to do it regardless of what weight.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

Coach could go full-unCael, and force a random draw for Friday evening's match order. If there's a time to do it, I'm thinking this is it. Not favored at 125 or 133, and close to a toss-up at 141. Thoughts?? My thinking is two-fold...first, grab the momentum early, which could happen at any start other than 125 or 133. Second, gives our very-talented true freshman a chance to get the feel of the place.

interesting thought, Roar.

My take is that if it happens, it won't be because of CS. My sense is that a) he's a traditionalist, b) he's not looking for gimmicks to win. Regardless of which weight goes 1st, there will be 10 matches in the dual. I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that CS is worried about the away crowd, the ref, or anything else, that he's focused on the 10 competitions, and that he thinks starting at anything other than 125 is a change that affords no advantage, as the results of any particular match have no real bearing on the other 9 matches.

 

[diggerpup]

Coach could go full-unCael, and force a random draw for Friday evening's match order. If there's a time to do it, I'm thinking this is it. Not favored at 125 or 133, and close to a toss-up at 141. Thoughts?? My thinking is two-fold...first, grab the momentum early, which could happen at any start other than 125 or 133. Second, gives our very-talented true freshman a chance to get the feel of the place.

Great idea - was thinking the same exact thing earlier this weekend.

I think the best starting weight for PSU would be 174 - that would let everything play out, let Suriano ease into the evening and would let the gauntlet of Zain/Nolf/VJ know what they need for the dual win, if things are close.

 

[El-Jefe]

interesting thought, Roar.

My take is that if it happens, it won't be because of CS. My sense is that a) he's a traditionalist, b) he's not looking for gimmicks to win. Regardless of which weight goes 1st, there will be 10 matches in the dual. I could be wrong, but I don't get the sense that CS is worried about the away crowd, the ref, or anything else, that he's focused on the 10 competitions, and that he thinks starting at anything other than 125 is a change that affords no advantage, as the results of any particular match have no real bearing on the other 9 matches.

Plus: Nick is going first at nationals. If he's fortunate enough to reach the national final, he might go first there as well.

 

[diggerpup]

There is precedent: the Stanford dual started at 165, in order to ease Suriano into his first big challenge.

(EDIT: or maybe it started at 165 for Stanford to help Schram recover after his drastic weight cut)

 

[lobo lion]

Was thinking about this during my drive time today. Brands would never be expecting it, which would fire him up from the get go. 125, if it goes our way, could lead to an absolute dismantling of Iowa. But, if it goes their way, could lead to big momentum for them.
I think he does it. In fact, someone should make sure the idea is in his head during the radio show, even if he doesn't answer the question. Hint. Hint.

"In fact, someone should make sure the idea is in his head"

If you ask nicely, maybe Spyker will do that for you at his pre-match strategy session with Cael.

 

[Tom McAndrew]

There is precedent: the Stanford dual started at 165, in order to ease Suriano into his first big challenge.

(EDIT: or maybe it started at 165 for Stanford to help Schram recover after his drastic weight cut)

Neither. Stanford wouldn't agree to start at 125. PSU wouldn't agree to any other weight, so they did a blind draw. 165 was picked in the draw, but it could just as easily have been any of the other 9 weights.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

There's a parallel...January 22, 2012, same two teams, in State College...everybody knew that Iowa would be favored in the first three weights, and Penn State the other seven. Further, everybody "knew" that Iowa would be fired up after their 21-9 loss to Ohio State two nights earlier, and everybody "knew" that Penn State would be out of it after Joe Paterno passed away that morning...or not! The two teams agreed to start at 125, Iowa won the first three weights, Penn State the next seven...Iowa wrestled flat, almost as if their thumping two nights ago at St. John Arena hadn't happened, and Penn State was ready to go! (that dual makes me think we'll see it start at 125 again)

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Neither. Stanford wouldn't agree to start at 125. PSU wouldn't agree to any other weight, so they did a blind draw. 165 was picked in the draw, but it could just as easily have been any of the other 9 weights.

That's what makes me think we need to do things arbitration-style if they can't agree. One school scratches a weight, the next school scratches a weight, and so on until only two remain, and they flip one of those silver (or bronze) toys into the air to determine the start weight...heads is the lighter weight, tails the heavier (or vice-versa).

 

[SetonHallPirate]

There's a parallel...January 22, 2012, same two teams, in State College...everybody knew that Iowa would be favored in the first three weights, and Penn State the other seven. Further, everybody "knew" that Iowa would be fired up after their 21-9 loss to Ohio State two nights earlier, and everybody "knew" that Penn State would be out of it after Joe Paterno passed away that morning...or not! The two teams agreed to start at 125, Iowa won the first three weights, Penn State the next seven...Iowa wrestled flat, almost as if their thumping two nights ago at St. John Arena hadn't happened, and Penn State was ready to go! (that dual makes me think we'll see it start at 125 again)

Irony of ironies, with the dual this Friday...the Dual Impact Index has Iowa winning 125, 133 (with Clark in there), and 141, and Penn State winning out from there.

 

[nitlion6]

Plus: Nick is going first at nationals. If he's fortunate enough to reach the national final, he might go first there as well.

Just guessing, but I do not believe the NCAA championships start @ 125 this year. Start at 197 conclude with 184.

With that said, as Roar reminded me last week never say never but I just don't see Cael thinking he needs anything other than normal effort to achieve success in Carver.

 

[slushhead]

Interesting idea. Two thoughts not yet mentioned...

(1) There could be a 1% backfire scenario where the draw results in a start at 133, and enough weirdness happens that the dual is on the line come 125 (i.e., even more pressure)

(2) Suriano's personality doesn't strike me as one that would necessarily benefit from having to wait extra time to hit the mat. No need to increase the risk for development of stomach ulcers before March.

 

[FineMaterial]

It's not a bad idea. Will Cael do it? I think it comes down to Cael's reading of Nick. I think Nick's mindset might be to get going asap.

 

[RoarLions1]

I agree with Clay and Tom...unlikely because it's Cael's MO...cool discussion though, and now that it's on a message board I'm sure the coaches have all of your thoughts and opinions .

 

[manatree]

Personally, I prefer random starts. It's always a good thing to expose other wrestlers to the pressure of the come from behind and final bout(s).

 

[psualt]

I like the 125 start. Besides being a traditionalist, if this come down to HWT then I like Nevills knowing what he needs to do. If Stoll is truly injured it forces Brands to make a tough decision.

 

[El-Jefe]

I like the 125 start. Besides being a traditionalist, if this come down to HWT then I like Nevills knowing what he needs to do. If Stoll is truly injured it forces Brands to make a tough decision.

Then start at HWT. Start at 125 and Brands might not have a decision to make.

 

[KidNittany]

Then start at HWT. Start at 125 and Brands might not have a decision to make.

I like the idea of starting at heavyweight or 165 for ALL duals, considering how many folks leave before they wrestle.

With a match in hand, fans would stay to watch the more exciting guys at the end. IMO

Going into crazier territory you could randomize the bouts and not tell the fans, and guys come out for matches "unannounced". I think that would be cool personally

 

[SRATH]

Will stick with 125 first. Will there be a whole to fill, yes. I want my best guys, those best able to score bonus, to know how big that hole is. In this case it works perfectly for PSU.

This one is easy imho.

 

[aalion]

Coach could go full-unCael, and force a random draw for Friday evening's match order. If there's a time to do it, I'm thinking this is it. Not favored at 125 or 133, and close to a toss-up at 141. Thoughts?? My thinking is two-fold...first, grab the momentum early, which could happen at any start other than 125 or 133. Second, gives our very-talented true freshman a chance to get the feel of the place.

This seems like a very non-traditional thing for you to suggest, Roar! Are you getting younger in your old age?

 

[Pennstate1985]

My thought is that if Cael starts anywhere other than 125, he is suggesting a lack confidence in Nick and the team to take care of business the usual way. This dual is not important in the grand scheme of things. Keeping the team steady and confident is.

 

[ZepGraffiti]

Neither. Stanford wouldn't agree to start at 125. PSU wouldn't agree to any other weight, so they did a blind draw. 165 was picked in the draw, but it could just as easily have been any of the other 9 weights.

What about @Minny? That started at 149 I think.
I'm sure the assumption is it was Eggum's decision to blind draw, but has that actually been verified [don't remember hearing the specifics at the time]? And with Lizak coming off an impressive SS run to the title, I would've thought Minn would want to start @125?

For Iowa, I think a case could be made that starting elsewhere [than 125] could benefit Suriano & Gulibon [the place could be extra jacked & smelling blood if Iowa rolls the first two bouts].

 

[aalion]

What about @Minny? That started at 149 I think.
I'm sure the assumption is it was Eggum's decision to blind draw, but has that actually been verified [don't remember hearing the specifics at the time]? And with Lizak coming off an impressive SS run to the title, I would've thought Minn would want to start @125?

For Iowa, I think a case could be made that starting elsewhere [than 125] could benefit Suriano & Gulibon [the place could be extra jacked & smelling blood if Iowa rolls the first two bouts].

I think it was the Minny match where the coach wanted the random draw to allow one of their lightweights who struggled to make weight more time for recovery. I might be confusing my duals though.

 

[slicone]

Fyi .. the brands will always start at 125 if the other coach agrees. There was a time a few years ago when Clark was having a hard time with the cut to 125, and really could have used a little more time, but they still preferred starting there . Brands feels (as does Cael I think) Duels have a much better flow for the fans if they start at 125. I know iowa has been really good at those weights since he has been here, but im pretty sure that is not the main reason.

Like they say in baseball, momentum is only as good as the next days starting pitcher. Something tells me that even if you guys do lose the first three, the guys coming up after that, will still somehow find the way to the middle of the mat, with their hands not trembling so bad they are unable to shake hands before they blow the whistle.

If I remember correctly, Zain righted the ship just fine a couple years ago as a true freshman. After watching Nico lose, then jimmy get decked. Carver was pretty loud, didn't seem to bother Zain much

 

[aalion]

Fyi .. the brands will always start at 125 if the other coach agrees. There was a time a few years ago when Clark was having a hard time with the cut to 125, and really could have used a little more time, but they still preferred starting there . Brands feels (as does Cael I think) Duels have a much better flow for the fans if they start at 125. I know iowa has been really good at those weights since he has been here, but im pretty sure that is not the main reason.

Like they say in baseball, momentum is only as good as the next days starting pitcher. Something tells me that even if you guys do lose the first three, the guys coming up after that, will still somehow find the way to the middle of the mat, with their hands not trembling so bad they are unable to shake hands before they blow the whistle.

If I remember correctly, Zain righted the ship just fine a couple years ago as a true freshman. After watching Nico lose, then jimmy get decked. Carver was pretty loud, didn't seem to bother Zain much

Yep. I dont think anyone including the originator of this thread thinks that Cael or Brands will start anywhere other than 125. I don't think Cael has ever chosen to either. But more fun to talk about than many of the other no win topics...

 

[WildTurk]

I Hope it starts at 133

 

[WildTurk]

Not likely however

 

[ZepGraffiti]

Fyi .. the brands will always start at 125 if the other coach agrees. There was a time a few years ago when Clark was having a hard time with the cut to 125, and really could have used a little more time, but they still preferred starting there . Brands feels (as does Cael I think) Duels have a much better flow for the fans if they start at 125. I know iowa has been really good at those weights since he has been here, but im pretty sure that is not the main reason.

Like they say in baseball, momentum is only as good as the next days starting pitcher. Something tells me that even if you guys do lose the first three, the guys coming up after that, will still somehow find the way to the middle of the mat, with their hands not trembling so bad they are unable to shake hands before they blow the whistle.

If I remember correctly, Zain righted the ship just fine a couple years ago as a true freshman. After watching Nico lose, then jimmy get decked. Carver was pretty loud, didn't seem to bother Zain much

I don't think anyone is worried one bit about Zain & Nolf.

 

[RoarLions1]

Fyi .. the brands will always start at 125 if the other coach agrees. There was a time a few years ago when Clark was having a hard time with the cut to 125, and really could have used a little more time, but they still preferred starting there . Brands feels (as does Cael I think) Duels have a much better flow for the fans if they start at 125. I know iowa has been really good at those weights since he has been here, but im pretty sure that is not the main reason.

Like they say in baseball, momentum is only as good as the next days starting pitcher. Something tells me that even if you guys do lose the first three, the guys coming up after that, will still somehow find the way to the middle of the mat, with their hands not trembling so bad they are unable to shake hands before they blow the whistle.

If I remember correctly, Zain righted the ship just fine a couple years ago as a true freshman. After watching Nico lose, then jimmy get decked. Carver was pretty loud, didn't seem to bother Zain much

Yep. I dont think anyone including the originator of this thread thinks that Cael or Brands will start anywhere other than 125. I don't think Cael has ever chosen to either. But more fun to talk about than many of the other no win topics...

Agreed, though I hope all firearms are left at home

 

[findtheStrength]

but if the match is already out of reach for iowa at 184 maybe brooks doesnt let it all fly just to get decked by bo.

 

[SRATH]

Or if Stoll is banged up, he only goes if there is a shot to win it. Lots of gamesmanship could be played.......just does't fit the style of either program. Working the refs is a different deal.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

I could be wrong but I thought I heard Cael say on one of his coaches show that he prefers to always start at 125 ...

 

[dunkej01]

I hope it starts at 125. Personally, I want to confirm my opinion the Nick rises to the occasion and is not a prisoner to it. IMHO, this helps for March immensely. He might not win, but the moment will not be too big for him. The kid went undefeated in HS, and I cant imagine the snowball that was and think it wouldnt have been greater than a dual at CHA.

Also, I want the hawk fans to get crazy happy early, only to have their wings clipped, and sent home with the only bright spot being the intermission ice cream.

 

[WildTurk]

I do like the ice cream

 

[RoarLions1]

I do like the ice cream

Me too, Turk. Part of my "bucket list" when we visited CHA for B1G's last year. Also have several photos at the Gable Statue as evidence we were there.

 

[nitlion6]

but if the match is already out of reach for iowa at 184 maybe brooks doesnt let it all fly just to get decked by bo.

Doesn't fit the kid's personality. Brooks will show up believing he can beat Bo straight up and he is going to get after it. Team score will dictate nothing. The match should be entertaining as all get out

 

[WildTurk]

Doesn't fit the kid's personality. Brooks will show up believing he can beat Bo straight up and he is going to get after it. Team score will dictate nothing. The match should be entertaining as all get out

Well i agree with you here 100%

 

[NoVa Lion]

I could be wrong but I thought I heard Cael say on one of his coaches show that he prefers to always start at 125 ...

Cael has said that on many occasions.