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Match Thread Edinboro dual - Sun. Feb. 25 at 2 pm

A couple thoughts:
1) Carter and Joey Arnold (his Edinboro opponent) are from the same district (D10) so they’ve likely crossed paths in the past at some point. Carter has always been light years ahead of Arnold, granted.
2) having watched the replay multiple times, my hypothesis is that he stretched a ligament in his knee in that position. I was watching his knee specifically and it never shifted as though something had torn. I’ve seen times where an NFL player, for instance, makes a cut in the open field and their knee just gives way and you can see the knee shifts in the replay. I’m not a Dr or anything, so I’m purely speculating. I can tell you from firsthand experience that stretching a ligament will make you think you tore something though. I stretched my UCL at a summer duals tournament back in HS and I thought I had torn my elbow to shreds. Turns out, I stretched my UCL and it hurt like Hell for a few days, then I slowly got better and regained my full ROM
 
Before he took the Edinboro job he was a grad assistant at Oklahoma State. He wrestled for Indiana State. I met him once at States. He was a big man .
Two years ago at Nationals we bought tickets to the Rudis fan experience after party. It was a very small turnout. Probably half the people at the party were wrestlers. Great for a fan though.

Anyway, I grew up in northern Pa and idolized Bruce. Tried to get a pic with him and he completely looked at us and walked away. Total d bag. As was Ben Askren (tool). I stopped Ben as he walked by and said “why are your guys here and avoiding fans who paid money to be here?” … his response was a laugh 😂 and “bro I have a podcast to do early tomorrow”, I said well then leave!” They were all “part of the fan experience” and couldn’t have been more unwelcoming. None of the PSU guys who wrestled even showed up actually. (I think Mark Hall and Snyder wrestled). Not sure if Mark had left NLWC yet.

Alec Pantaleo, Jordan Burroughs and J’Den Cox were incredible with their time. True ambassadors of the sport.

This same thing happened again at the UWW World Cup in Corallville. Sold a fan experience to meet the US team afterwards. None of the team showed up. Apparently Adeline Gray finally came up and Dan Gable was unbelievably gracious with his time.

Point is this, we are trying to grow the sport, and yet many aren’t holding the water to grow it. As a PSU fan, I’ll give Iowa and Ok State credit for wrestling each other out of conference every year and it being on FS1 this year. All I thought flipping it to that cable TV channel was this is so amazing for the sport. I would also like to see Cael and company do more interviews/TV stuff and maybe wrestle a bigger out of conference match. I totally get why they don’t, but for the kids and fans it helps. Penn State is carrying the water for the sport the last ten years and could really help bring wrestling to the mainstream. Thats maybe the one area I’d like to see them improve. I’m sure the rest of PSU fans will beat me up for saying it, but it is what it is.
 
Point is this, we are trying to grow the sport, and yet many aren’t holding the water to grow it. As a PSU fan, I’ll give Iowa and Ok State credit for wrestling each other out of conference every year and it being on FS1 this year. All I thought flipping it to that cable TV channel was this is so amazing for the sport. I would also like to see Cael and company do more interviews/TV stuff and maybe wrestle a bigger out of conference match. I totally get why they don’t, but for the kids and fans it helps. Penn State is carrying the water for the sport the last ten years and could really help bring wrestling to the mainstream. Thats maybe the one area I’d like to see them improve. I’m sure the rest of PSU fans will beat me up for saying it, but it is what it is.
Does Cael & PSU wrestling not get credit for flying out to the Pacific Northwest to wrestle Oregon State as a “grow the sport” endeavor?
 
Two years ago at Nationals we bought tickets to the Rudis fan experience after party. It was a very small turnout. Probably half the people at the party were wrestlers. Great for a fan though.

Anyway, I grew up in northern Pa and idolized Bruce. Tried to get a pic with him and he completely looked at us and walked away. Total d bag. As was Ben Askren (tool). I stopped Ben as he walked by and said “why are your guys here and avoiding fans who paid money to be here?” … his response was a laugh 😂 and “bro I have a podcast to do early tomorrow”, I said well then leave!” They were all “part of the fan experience” and couldn’t have been more unwelcoming. None of the PSU guys who wrestled even showed up actually. (I think Mark Hall and Snyder wrestled). Not sure if Mark had left NLWC yet.

Alec Pantaleo, Jordan Burroughs and J’Den Cox were incredible with their time. True ambassadors of the sport.

This same thing happened again at the UWW World Cup in Corallville. Sold a fan experience to meet the US team afterwards. None of the team showed up. Apparently Adeline Gray finally came up and Dan Gable was unbelievably gracious with his time.

Point is this, we are trying to grow the sport, and yet many aren’t holding the water to grow it. As a PSU fan, I’ll give Iowa and Ok State credit for wrestling each other out of conference every year and it being on FS1 this year. All I thought flipping it to that cable TV channel was this is so amazing for the sport. I would also like to see Cael and company do more interviews/TV stuff and maybe wrestle a bigger out of conference match. I totally get why they don’t, but for the kids and fans it helps. Penn State is carrying the water for the sport the last ten years and could really help bring wrestling to the mainstream. Thats maybe the one area I’d like to see them improve. I’m sure the rest of PSU fans will beat me up for saying it, but it is what it is.
I wouldn't mind a couple more home matches. It doesn't have to be against top team. Maybe an Ivy school and a bottom 25 program.
With depth of team it would give opportunity to get a couple matches for fans to see some of that depth. Plus add a little more revenue from home bout. Most programs would love to make trip to State College.
 
Agree. The ref was letting him work for the Fall. Not his fault
Definitely agree. Was not the ref's fault nor was it Arnold's fault. If anyone was at fault, it was Carter himself for contorting himself to try to keep the hold to get the pin instead of the tech when the original hold started to slip, but really, it was just one of those things. Injuries happen in sports, and they are not always either avoidable or anyone's fault. It's a shame it happened at this point in the season, but we'll see what happens from here. Hopefully, he can wrestle.
 
In regards to Bruce, I live a short drive away from Edinboro. My wife lived in Edinboro when we first started dating and was a GA in the admissions department. I went to many Baumgartner and Flynn camps growing up so I’ve had my fair share of interactions with Bruce over the years. My experience with him has been positive. He’s truly a giant of a man and has always been cordial in my experience. He’s worn so many hats simultaneously over the years (AD of Boro, HC at Boro, USA Wrestling ambassador, etc.), I’m sure he’s ready to enjoy retirement.

In regards to Boro as a program, the sentiment around the area is that they should probably consider a move back down to D2. They most likely won’t qualify a wrestler for nationals this year and don’t really look like they have one coming up anytime soon. Landon Bainey will be their best bet, but that’s about it. I watched their 157 and 174 wrestle up through HS and never got the impression that either was a D1 caliber kid. They’re more akin to a D2 starter at best. Gannon (the 157) and his brother Logan spend more time dirt track racing than wrestling. Joey (the 174), meanwhile, never sniffed states and I can remember being surprised that he was even recruited by Edinboro because he wasn’t an outstanding wrestler. Other than that, they’ve lost a lot of kids to the portal (former NQ Gabe Willochel, Tye Varndell, Ethan Ducca) and others have just up and disappeared from the program (former NQ Ryan Burgos, Jon Spaulding, Jacob Oliver, Jared McGill, Luke Kemerer, etc). They’ve been getting throttled this year and there really isn’t a light at the end of the tunnel. Especially with their now sister school Clarion manhandling them year in and year out
 
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Two years ago at Nationals we bought tickets to the Rudis fan experience after party. It was a very small turnout. Probably half the people at the party were wrestlers. Great for a fan though.

Anyway, I grew up in northern Pa and idolized Bruce. Tried to get a pic with him and he completely looked at us and walked away. Total d bag. As was Ben Askren (tool). I stopped Ben as he walked by and said “why are your guys here and avoiding fans who paid money to be here?” … his response was a laugh 😂 and “bro I have a podcast to do early tomorrow”, I said well then leave!” They were all “part of the fan experience” and couldn’t have been more unwelcoming. None of the PSU guys who wrestled even showed up actually. (I think Mark Hall and Snyder wrestled). Not sure if Mark had left NLWC yet.

Alec Pantaleo, Jordan Burroughs and J’Den Cox were incredible with their time. True ambassadors of the sport.

This same thing happened again at the UWW World Cup in Corallville. Sold a fan experience to meet the US team afterwards. None of the team showed up. Apparently Adeline Gray finally came up and Dan Gable was unbelievably gracious with his time.

Point is this, we are trying to grow the sport, and yet many aren’t holding the water to grow it. As a PSU fan, I’ll give Iowa and Ok State credit for wrestling each other out of conference every year and it being on FS1 this year. All I thought flipping it to that cable TV channel was this is so amazing for the sport. I would also like to see Cael and company do more interviews/TV stuff and maybe wrestle a bigger out of conference match. I totally get why they don’t, but for the kids and fans it helps. Penn State is carrying the water for the sport the last ten years and could really help bring wrestling to the mainstream. Thats maybe the one area I’d like to see them improve. I’m sure the rest of PSU fans will beat me up for saying it, but it is what it is.
Regarding PSU coaches & wrestlers not showing up. As you probably know, they award the team trophies and then do photos Saturday night. Then the team and coaches have a PSU wrestling club social that PSU wrestling club members pay to attend. The staff and wrestlers say a few words and they mingle with the crowd for probably an hour or more. Some years Cael and a few wrestlers show up late to the party because they are doing media interviews.
 
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Definitely agree. Was not the ref's fault nor was it Arnold's fault. If anyone was at fault, it was Carter himself for contorting himself to try to keep the hold to get the pin instead of the tech when the original hold started to slip, but really, it was just one of those things. Injuries happen in sports, and they are not always either avoidable or anyone's fault. It's a shame it happened at this point in the season, but we'll see what happens from here. Hopefully, he can wrestle.
Agreed. The ironic case where you’d almost like a PD call to physically protect the guy “initiating” the move. Even at that, this danger evolved too spontaneously to stop. No fault anywhere, just a tough break in a tough sport. May the wrestling gods (and medical results) favor Carter.
 
A post I didn't like as it is disrespectful of a DI wrestler.

A post I did like.


Based on the standard of the first post, Cael's teams would have noone to wrestle.
It was garbage time, he already had the tech. It also sucks that he put himself in a position like that against a kid that he could easily beat without doing anything crazy.
 
So if Carter does exactly what Nolf did at Bigs he will be hit with losses?

Prolly knew that but forgot
Thanks
It's a new rule this year that your first MFF of any tourney counts as a loss (on top of any Inj Def losses you may get first, I believe). Is there more to the rules to how much you have to compete with regard to to getting an Auto-Qualifier, or securing an at-large?
 
It was garbage time, he already had the tech. It also sucks that he put himself in a position like that against a kid that he could easily beat without doing anything crazy.
I hear you, but another perspective is that Carter’s relentless drive, his determination to gain every single point available to him, is what makes him who he is. Maybe he doesn’t have a lower gear. So, what makes him great also made him vulnerable to a freak injury in garbage time.
 
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In regards to Bruce, I live a short drive away from Edinboro. My wife lived in Edinboro when we first started dating and was a GA in the admissions department. I went to many Baumgartner and Flynn camps growing up so I’ve had my fair share of interactions with Bruce over the years. My experience with him has been positive. He’s truly a giant of a man and has always been cordial in my experience. He’s worn so many hats simultaneously over the years (AD of Boro, HC at Boro, USA Wrestling ambassador, etc.), I’m sure he’s ready to enjoy retirement.

In regards to Boro as a program, the sentiment around the area is that they should probably consider a move back down to D2. They most likely won’t qualify a wrestler for nationals this year and don’t really look like they have one coming up anytime soon. Landon Bainey will be their best bet, but that’s about it. I watched their 157 and 174 wrestle up through HS and never got the impression that either was a D1 caliber kid. They’re more akin to a D2 starter at best. Gannon (the 157) and his brother Logan spend more time dirt track racing than wrestling. Joey (the 174), meanwhile, never sniffed states and I can remember being surprised that he was even recruited by Edinboro because he wasn’t an outstanding wrestler. Other than that, they’ve lost a lot of kids to the portal (former NQ Gabe Willochel, Tye Varndell, Ethan Ducca) and others have just up and disappeared from the program (former NQ Ryan Burgos, Jon Spaulding, Jacob Oliver, Jared McGill, Luke Kemerer, etc). They’ve been getting throttled this year and there really isn’t a light at the end of the tunnel. Especially with their now sister school Clarion manhandling them year in and year out
I wouldn't write off an NCAA qualifier just yet for years to come, they have a pretty good incoming class and some portal possibilities ;)
 
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Yes. To qualify for nationals he must compete or "compete" at least once. The latter (the ol' 0:01 INJ DEF) counts as a loss.

Plus what Nerf said.
At least Carter's injury occurred while he had already met the 15 point lead criteria for a tech. Had that not been the case he would have had a third loss added to his career, like Jason unfortunately did.
 
I rewatched the match today. Comments about Carter’s drive for excellence make him who he is.

Comments that the ref should have stopped it in time are foolish as it happened in a nanosecond. (With the possible exception Arnold came out of criteria for two seconds).

Watching the Nagao match is one I would never want to ref. Aaron turns himself into pretzel and at any second things could go south.

Now let's get Carter that Lamborghini or house in State College to make him feel better as we see him go for 4 and 5. :cool:
 
Ok here’s my $0.02 worth although that’s probably overestimating the value. (Good thing Letitia James has no jurisdiction in my area. 😁 )

I have had several knee injuries that were really painful when they happened. None of them required surgery. The most invasive procedure was a cortisone injection in my right knee. I’m really hoping that Carter had something similar. Just because he was in pain and had to be helped off the mat right afterwards doesn’t necessarily mean he has a severe injury. Sometimes ice and a couple of horse tablet size doses of Ibuprofen will be enough to get someone moving again.
 
Two years ago at Nationals we bought tickets to the Rudis fan experience after party. It was a very small turnout. Probably half the people at the party were wrestlers. Great for a fan though.

Anyway, I grew up in northern Pa and idolized Bruce. Tried to get a pic with him and he completely looked at us and walked away. Total d bag. As was Ben Askren (tool). I stopped Ben as he walked by and said “why are your guys here and avoiding fans who paid money to be here?” … his response was a laugh 😂 and “bro I have a podcast to do early tomorrow”, I said well then leave!” They were all “part of the fan experience” and couldn’t have been more unwelcoming. None of the PSU guys who wrestled even showed up actually. (I think Mark Hall and Snyder wrestled). Not sure if Mark had left NLWC yet.

Alec Pantaleo, Jordan Burroughs and J’Den Cox were incredible with their time. True ambassadors of the sport.

This same thing happened again at the UWW World Cup in Corallville. Sold a fan experience to meet the US team afterwards. None of the team showed up. Apparently Adeline Gray finally came up and Dan Gable was unbelievably gracious with his time.

Point is this, we are trying to grow the sport, and yet many aren’t holding the water to grow it. As a PSU fan, I’ll give Iowa and Ok State credit for wrestling each other out of conference every year and it being on FS1 this year. All I thought flipping it to that cable TV channel was this is so amazing for the sport. I would also like to see Cael and company do more interviews/TV stuff and maybe wrestle a bigger out of conference match. I totally get why they don’t, but for the kids and fans it helps. Penn State is carrying the water for the sport the last ten years and could really help bring wrestling to the mainstream. Thats maybe the one area I’d like to see them improve. I’m sure the rest of PSU fans will beat me up for saying it, but it is what it is.
This is such an odd take.

At Nationals - of course Burroughs & Cox are going to be gracious with their time - they're not competing.

Are the actual competitors supposed to immediately decompress mentally & emotionally after championship level action, just so they can sign your glossy photo? Is that now a prerequisite? Why?

For every fan who thinks the competitors need to be mingling with fans ASAP, there will be another fan who thinks a wrestler is not focused on his/her wrestling, and feels its an adverse effect on their performance.

You're not gonna please everyone, all the time.
 
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This is such an odd take.

At Nationals - of course Burroughs & Cox are going to be gracious with their time - they're not competing.

Are the actual competitors supposed to immediately decompress mentally & emotionally after championship level action, just so they can sign your glossy photo? Is that now a prerequisite? Why?

For every fan who thinks the competitors need to be mingling with fans ASAP, there will be another fan who thinks a wrestler is not focused on his/her wrestling, and feels its an adverse effect on their performance.

You're not gonna please everyone, all the time.
You clearly didn’t read the post. It was at a Rudis event that was a promotion in which they were “paid” to be there for the fans. The tickets cost 250 dollars to get in to the after party after the Rudis match Wednesday prior to nationals in Detroit. And no I don’t want a picture or photos. But there were several kids that did. And the fellas I mentioned Askren and BB were D bags. The NLWC members that wrestled didn’t show to the event. I’m guessing because they don’t take money from Rudis and that’s fine. It’s still crappy for the fans. When you advertise these types of things as fan experiences and don’t deliver it’s heartbreaking to fans (kids). I’ve never gotten a photo or asked for one. Nor have I gotten any autograph other than a pre signed one for my nephews. One fan (a 12 year old girl) from Colorado was at the UWW event in Iowa city (World Cup) in which the USA team just didn’t show up to the “paid experience”. That girl was devastated. She wanted to meet the women’s team. Her dad was heartbroken and had flown her out to specifically get this experience for her.

Anyway, as I said, I knew I’d get crushed for having a take on something slightly critical because that’s the world we live in. I’m a PSU fan but a wrestling fan first. Because the sport is bigger than the team. And there are certainly things that COULD be done better by ALL to grow the sport. And if you disagree then that’s your perspective. Whether you feel my take is “odd” or not.
 
You clearly didn’t read the post. It was at a Rudis event that was a promotion in which they were “paid” to be there for the fans. The tickets cost 250 dollars to get in to the after party after the Rudis match Wednesday prior to nationals in Detroit. And no I don’t want a picture or photos. But there were several kids that did. And the fellas I mentioned Askren and BB were D bags. The NLWC members that wrestled didn’t show to the event. I’m guessing because they don’t take money from Rudis and that’s fine. It’s still crappy for the fans. When you advertise these types of things as fan experiences and don’t deliver it’s heartbreaking to fans (kids). I’ve never gotten a photo or asked for one. Nor have I gotten any autograph other than a pre signed one for my nephews. One fan (a 12 year old girl) from Colorado was at the UWW event in Iowa city (World Cup) in which the USA team just didn’t show up to the “paid experience”. That girl was devastated. She wanted to meet the women’s team. Her dad was heartbroken and had flown her out to specifically get this experience for her.

Anyway, as I said, I knew I’d get crushed for having a take on something slightly critical because that’s the world we live in. I’m a PSU fan but a wrestling fan first. Because the sport is bigger than the team. And there are certainly things that COULD be done better by ALL to grow the sport. And if you disagree then that’s your perspective. Whether you feel my take is “odd” or not.
Rudis (or whoever sponsors these events) should list everyone who will be there. I can see where competitors wouldn’t be out the night before. It is a great concept if done well, otherwise it sounds like a money grab by Rudis
 
You clearly didn’t read the post. It was at a Rudis event that was a promotion in which they were “paid” to be there for the fans. The tickets cost 250 dollars to get in to the after party after the Rudis match Wednesday prior to nationals in Detroit. And no I don’t want a picture or photos. But there were several kids that did. And the fellas I mentioned Askren and BB were D bags. The NLWC members that wrestled didn’t show to the event. I’m guessing because they don’t take money from Rudis and that’s fine. It’s still crappy for the fans. When you advertise these types of things as fan experiences and don’t deliver it’s heartbreaking to fans (kids). I’ve never gotten a photo or asked for one. Nor have I gotten any autograph other than a pre signed one for my nephews. One fan (a 12 year old girl) from Colorado was at the UWW event in Iowa city (World Cup) in which the USA team just didn’t show up to the “paid experience”. That girl was devastated. She wanted to meet the women’s team. Her dad was heartbroken and had flown her out to specifically get this experience for her.

Anyway, as I said, I knew I’d get crushed for having a take on something slightly critical because that’s the world we live in. I’m a PSU fan but a wrestling fan first. Because the sport is bigger than the team. And there are certainly things that COULD be done better by ALL to grow the sport. And if you disagree then that’s your perspective. Whether you feel my take is “odd” or not.
don't see anything wrong with recounting your experience. Too bad it wasn't more positive.
 
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You clearly didn’t read the post. It was at a Rudis event that was a promotion in which they were “paid” to be there for the fans. The tickets cost 250 dollars to get in to the after party after the Rudis match Wednesday prior to nationals in Detroit. And no I don’t want a picture or photos. But there were several kids that did. And the fellas I mentioned Askren and BB were D bags. The NLWC members that wrestled didn’t show to the event. I’m guessing because they don’t take money from Rudis and that’s fine. It’s still crappy for the fans. When you advertise these types of things as fan experiences and don’t deliver it’s heartbreaking to fans (kids). I’ve never gotten a photo or asked for one. Nor have I gotten any autograph other than a pre signed one for my nephews. One fan (a 12 year old girl) from Colorado was at the UWW event in Iowa city (World Cup) in which the USA team just didn’t show up to the “paid experience”. That girl was devastated. She wanted to meet the women’s team. Her dad was heartbroken and had flown her out to specifically get this experience for her.

Anyway, as I said, I knew I’d get crushed for having a take on something slightly critical because that’s the world we live in. I’m a PSU fan but a wrestling fan first. Because the sport is bigger than the team. And there are certainly things that COULD be done better by ALL to grow the sport. And if you disagree then that’s your perspective. Whether you feel my take is “odd” or not.
FYI - and FWIW,

Back in 1992, I worked for a company that had another division near Erie. It turned out that one of the women at the division was Bruce Baumgartner's neighbor, so right after the Olympics in Barcelona, I asked her if she would get me an autographed photo. He graciously granted my request, and she made an interesting observation that he was very shy. I have no idea whether or not that influenced his demeanor at your event, but in the past I have thought other people to be rude only to find out later that they were just not comfortable talking to people they did not know.
 
I don’t think there is going to be a plan B. Starocci needs to win the NCAA title to qualify for Olympic Trials. So he either doesn’t go this postseason and gives up on being a 4xer and making the olympic team. OR he goes despite the injury and likely still wins NCAAS (as many before him have)
He could compete and qualify at the last chance qualifier April 6-7. That would allow him almost 6 weeks to recover and an additional 2+ weeks from NCAA championships..
 
Point is this, we are trying to grow the sport, and yet many aren’t holding the water to grow it. As a PSU fan, I’ll give Iowa and Ok State credit for wrestling each other out of conference every year and it being on FS1 this year. All I thought flipping it to that cable TV channel was this is so amazing for the sport. I would also like to see Cael and company do more interviews/TV stuff and maybe wrestle a bigger out of conference match. I totally get why they don’t, but for the kids and fans it helps. Penn State is carrying the water for the sport the last ten years and could really help bring wrestling to the mainstream. Thats maybe the one area I’d like to see them improve. I’m sure the rest of PSU fans will beat me up for saying it, but it is what it is.
A whopping 254,000 watched it which is 9k more than the Penn State-Iowa match. It wasn't some ground breaking TV audience. Just for comparison the game before that on FS1 was Illinois/Iowa women's basketball which drew 816,000. The pickle ball championship and snowboarding had double the number of viewers that day.
 
A whopping 254,000 watched it which is 9k more than the Penn State-Iowa match. It wasn't some ground breaking TV audience. Just for comparison the game before that on FS1 was Illinois/Iowa women's basketball which drew 816,000. The pickle ball championship and snowboarding had double the number of viewers that day.
All the more reason for the top program in the country to become involved in such events in an attempt to increase interest in the sport.
 
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