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Match Thread Ohio State dual - Fri, Feb 2

Good points, and, yes, it’s best I’m not that or a ref. Vague rules or not, for me, that’s a TD all day and I’m fine with either a marked loss or lower ranking (even after such a “win”). Doesn’t mean I think less of Braedon. I like him even more after the effort against Kilkeary, a tough kid who’s beaten him before.
Certainly, dropping after winning should maybe only happen if a lower ranked guy has a more impressive victory and leapfrogs. Rising while losing might occur with a close loss to a highly ranked guy. No matter. Your take on the rankings will play out. Mine won’t. Either way, we’ll both have continued joy rooting for our unexpected warrior at 125. Can’t wait for Friday v Ayala.
if everyone thought Davis was taken down,then why would the refs not overturn the call? They reviewed it long enough. Are we more knowledgeable than the refs?
 
Yes. TanTom’s wrestle-offs are done tournament style and open to the public. Kilkeary actually lost to Peyton Fenton in a prelim and then McCrone beat Fenton in the final. Regardless of that result, Kilkeary is viewed as the higher ceiling guy.

Shumate beat Rogotzke, too, and they officially pulled Rogotzke’s shirt this weekend, so you have to assume he’s the starter going forward.
I find it hard to believe kilkeary and mcrone never wrestled.
 
I saw an interesting scenario about 20 years ago. Cedar Cliff wrestler in sudden death OT takes the kid down and kid is fighting the TD and ends up on his back. CC kid is trying so hard to pin him that he actually puts own shoulder blades on the mat. Ref calls the fall and CC kid loses by fall even tho he got the sudden death TD. It was crazy.
I would think that this scenario would play out like a locked hands call when you're on bottom: a "free move" scenario. I am not a ref, but I know some on this forum have been. In a sudden death scenario, shouldn't the TD override anything that negative that happens after?
 
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I find it hard to believe kilkeary and mcrone never wrestled.
I mean, they train every day together. I’m sure they’ve wrestled hundreds of hours together. The wrestle-off tournament is a pretty official thing, though, and Kilkeary lost before the final in that, so technically, he came out of that as third string.
 
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Read Barbee's entire thread, plus the comments. Barbee's point is interesting, especially from his professional perspective, though IDK where to draw the line and how to do so in a way that will be reffed consistently.

One of the comments is dangerously close to the UWW "correct throw" nonsense -- the sport needs to steer clear of that dreck.

Yea, but there needs to be a time definition of "in a control position" - traditionally, it has been thought to be a full one-count in a "control position". Having each ref make their own determination of how long you need to be in a "control position" before it is a TD is an unnecessary inconsistency. Just define how long you need to be in a "control position".
 
I don't think I saw this mentioned and apologies if I'm repeating myself. This needs to be considered in the rules. IF Bartlett's TD in OT would have been reversed, it would have really screwed over Bartlett. The ref rewarded the TD to Beau and blew the whistle to stop the match. At the time that he ended the match, Beau was in on a deep single, so, if he hadn't rewarded the points to end the match, he was in an extremely advantageous position.

So, IF they had over-turned it, they start back at neutral, which would have been complete BS for Beau. The only solution I can think of is to let them wrestle through the situation in SV. It's tough, but, that would not have been fair if it had been over-turned. I think it's something that should be seriously considered, as the situation will come up again.
 
I would think that this scenario would play out like a locked hands call when you're on bottom: a "free move" scenario. I am not a ref, but I know some on this forum have been. In a sudden death scenario, shouldn't the TD override anything that negative that happens after?
Yes
 
I don't think I saw this mentioned and apologies if I'm repeating myself. This needs to be considered in the rules. IF Bartlett's TD in OT would have been reversed, it would have really screwed over Bartlett. The ref rewarded the TD to Beau and blew the whistle to stop the match. At the time that he ended the match, Beau was in on a deep single, so, if he hadn't rewarded the points to end the match, he was in an extremely advantageous position.

So, IF they had over-turned it, they start back at neutral, which would have been complete BS for Beau. The only solution I can think of is to let them wrestle through the situation in SV. It's tough, but, that would not have been fair if it had been over-turned. I think it's something that should be seriously considered, as the situation will come up again.
Good point, but certainly mentioned in a few places.
 
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Everybody noticed the Maryland coach have a few choice words for our coaches in the hand shake line. Yet I found it hilarious after the Ohio State dual seeing Jaggers look like a little baby while completely looking away from our coaches while having a pouty face. Funny the way he also got pissed at Willie years back for the tweet he said about tOSU. Definitely a poor sport.
 
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if everyone thought Davis was taken down,then why would the refs not overturn the call? They reviewed it long enough. Are we more knowledgeable than the refs?
In this instance YES, 'we', Tom Ryan, Willie, Pyles, the announcers, countless podcasters, and anyone else with unbiased eyes.

As for refs overturning their own calls, I believe last year there was a statistic posted, overturns were EXCEEDINGLY rare.

You have heard of Angel Rivera before, haven't you? He was the second set of eyes on the review.
 
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Yea, but there needs to be a time definition of "in a control position" - traditionally, it has been thought to be a full one-count in a "control position". Having each ref make their own determination of how long you need to be in a "control position" before it is a TD is an unnecessary inconsistency. Just define how long you need to be in a "control position".
When there is a reaction, reaction time is needed. When it is a clean TD without a scramble, it is not. I don’t want a count for the latter. Want last second “clean’ takedowns to count.
 
I was there, across from the table, and I never saw the brick out or handed back. But I guess I could have missed it.
Ditto here on both of your observations... didn't see the brick thrown, but certainly may have missed it in the moment ... our seats are just behind the visiting coaches' chairs.
 
Thankfully you’re not a ranker. Drop an undefeated wrestler because he won on what you/most feel is a bad call? Cmon now.

The rules are vague with this new reaction time focus. Until they define how long is reaction time no review is going to help. It’s refs decision.

If you’re going to start dropping people in rankings for winning, how do you move up? Losing?
Rules ain't THAT vague.
 
I see lots of people downgrading Kasak’s win because D’Emilio lost to Cetta as well which I concede isn’t a good loss. On the other hand D’Emilio has beaten Jackson Arrington who is ranked 4th and Swiderski who is ranked 7th. He obviously has some uneven results but to say he isn’t AA caliber at 149 just isn’t true. I think it was a great win for Kasak and shows that he is improving weekly and should absolutely be an AA threat
 
I see lots of people downgrading Kasak’s win because D’Emilio lost to Cetta as well which I concede isn’t a good loss. On the other hand D’Emilio has beaten Jackson Arrington who is ranked 4th and Swiderski who is ranked 7th. He obviously has some uneven results but to say he isn’t AA caliber at 149 just isn’t true. I think it was a great win for Kasak and shows that he is improving weekly and should absolutely be an AA threat

Kasak is to be applauded for answer the call for an injured teammate. He's a freshman who expected to be redshirting and he's wrestling up a weight class.
 
Cael weighs in on the 125 "non-call". I don't believe I've said anything about the call prior to now, but I don't entirely disagree with what Cael says here. I'm not privy to what the refs are told during the off-season or what their focus might be, but I prefer this "let it play out" scenario a bit more than the ridiculous momentary calls that IMMEDIATELY become an escape or reversal. I just ask that they call it consistently during a dual meet or even on different dates and in different venues. https://nittanysportsnow.com/2024/0...FTC7x84_kf7v1JPw11CDwH7zi_cpOD05xmWJP5wCBTs-E
 
I would think that this scenario would play out like a locked hands call when you're on bottom: a "free move" scenario. I am not a ref, but I know some on this forum have been. In a sudden death scenario, shouldn't the TD override anything that negative that happens after?
Among other questions that our society is having a difficult time answering these days, I just have to ask, "What is a takedown?"
 
Cael weighs in on the 125 "non-call". I don't believe I've said anything about the call prior to now, but I don't entirely disagree with what Cael says here. I'm not privy to what the refs are told during the off-season or what their focus might be, but I prefer this "let it play out" scenario a bit more than the ridiculous momentary calls that IMMEDIATELY become an escape or reversal. I just ask that they call it consistently during a dual meet or even on different dates and in different venues. https://nittanysportsnow.com/2024/0...FTC7x84_kf7v1JPw11CDwH7zi_cpOD05xmWJP5wCBTs-E
Being 3 points instead of 2 might necessitate the “let them scramble until it’s clear” change in enforcement. The net of a TD and immediate escape is now two points instead of one.

Just wish the change was communicated to the sports few diehard fans. Communication is almost always the problem with change, no matter where the change occurs.
 
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Cael weighs in on the 125 "non-call". I don't believe I've said anything about the call prior to now, but I don't entirely disagree with what Cael says here. I'm not privy to what the refs are told during the off-season or what their focus might be, but I prefer this "let it play out" scenario a bit more than the ridiculous momentary calls that IMMEDIATELY become an escape or reversal. I just ask that they call it consistently during a dual meet or even on different dates and in different venues. https://nittanysportsnow.com/2024/0...FTC7x84_kf7v1JPw11CDwH7zi_cpOD05xmWJP5wCBTs-E
Consistency is definitely the key for officiating. Even if you don't agree with the way that a call is made, if it's made the same way every time, then at least you know what to expect. That particular call was so close that there's no way it wouldn't be controversial no matter what the call was. I personally thought it was a takedown, but whatever, as long as they call it that way every time, there's no issue.
 
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Being 3 points instead of 2 might necessitate the “let them scramble until it’s clear” change in enforcement. The net of a TD and immediate escape is now two points instead of one.

Just wish the change was communicated to the sports few diehard fans. Communication is almost always the problem with change, no matter where the change occurs.
I don't think there was any change driven to the refs, given the wide variance in calls from ref to ref.

It's getting like the old joke about economists: put 10 refs in a room, get 11 different calls.
 
Closing my eyes and wishing…

(I hope they wear robes…I hope they wear robes…I hope they wear robes…)


Here’s a video of tOSU entering Rec Hall back in 2019 with the robes

A few things stand out for me. Nato’s robe seems 2 sizes too big. And our guys seem much looser and relaxed when they came out. And when Jason comes out on crutches the fans went absolutely nuts… ahh great memories!!
 
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I've been in the hospital for a week. On Saturday I got calls from my brothers. One was an Ursinus football player living in NJ, one wrestled for Lehigh living at the Villages, and one wrestled for Miami of Ohio, living in Tallahassee, and I wrestled for Gettysburg at their local hospital. We all watched the PSU OSU dual and had plenty to say about it.
 
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