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Is Alex Marinelli the new Mike Evans?

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matter7172

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Nov 14, 2012
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Alex was really impressive in the regular season and B1Gs. However, I noticed on Flo that his points at nationals went from 13 last year to 7.5 this year. I know he hit Mekhi in the quarters, but that, to me, is sort of alarming drop, even with his slight slide from 6th to 7th place.

In any case, that's not what you'd like to see for freshman to sophomore seasons. Is he plateauing at nationals? The weight class will be loaded again next season if everyone stays in it. I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish around the same spot.
 
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matter7172 said:
Alex was really impressive in the regular season and B1Gs. However, I noticed on Flo that his points at nationals went from 13 last year to 7.5 this year. I know he hit Mekhi in the quarters, but that, to me, is sort of alarming drop, even with his slight slide from 6th to 7th place.

In any case, that's not what you'd like to see for freshman to sophomore seasons. Is he plateauing at nationals? The weight class will be loaded again next season if everyone stays in it. I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish around the same spot.
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Not in my opinion. The young man had among the most challenging draws I've ever seen for a #1 seed. Nothing would surprise me, even a National Championship, in his final 2 seasons.
 
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RoarLions1 said:
Not in my opinion. The young man had among the most challenging draws I've ever seen for a #1 seed. Nothing would surprise me, even a National Championship, in his final 2 seasons.
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That wouldn't surprise me too much either. The point drop is the thing that gives me the most pause. Even with the draw, you'd think he would do better or that a year later he would be better and the "draw" wouldn't matter. He *was* the 1 seed, after all. Looking at the brackets, the road to the first loss was pretty easy for him, Isiah in the semis. But then he went winless in consolations, losing to Wick and McFadden. So the 13 points could have been matched this year, especially when he at least won two matches in wrestlebacks.
 
I have pondered this myself, and it is interesting. Alex is a complete beast and wins many battles by wearing his opponents down with heavy hands and pressure. Guys tend to peak shape wise for the NCAA which negates some of his advantage. When much of your game is taking advantage of a decidedly significant shape advantage it is logical that the margins would shrink as the opponents gain conditioning. I still expect Alex to be a top 1-4 guy next year. He cares too much and is too talented to be held down his entire career.
 
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I think that the Bulls 7th place finish is a direct result of his style of wrestling, He is so physical that a 3 day tourny simply wears his body down to the point that it takes several days for recovery.

To put it another way, The bull was not the same wrestler in the backside as he was the front side. Talent and ability is still there, but not the raw power.
 
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matter7172 said:
Alex was really impressive in the regular season and B1Gs. However, I noticed on Flo that his points at nationals went from 13 last year to 7.5 this year. I know he hit Mekhi in the quarters, but that, to me, is sort of alarming drop, even with his slight slide from 6th to 7th place.

In any case, that's not what you'd like to see for freshman to sophomore seasons. Is he plateauing at nationals? The weight class will be loaded again next season if everyone stays in it. I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish around the same spot.
Click to expand...

In no way would I insult the Bull and call him the next Evans! Evans seemed to always drag a match to the lowest level of activity. The Bull is the opposite. Always pushing, always looking for the attack. Evans percentage of bonus wins reflected this. As a senior, he was around 1/3 of all wins as bonus. And that was taking advantage of a lot of unranked kids. The Bull, this year, was not a bonus machine in his wins, but he was over 50% bonus wins.

Not similar in style. Maybe NCAA performance, but not style.
 
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PANCAKE1 said:
I think that the Bulls 7th place finish is a direct result of his style of wrestling, He is so physical that a 3 day tourny simply wears his body down to the point that it takes several days for recovery.

To put it another way, The bull was not the same wrestler in the backside as he was the front side. Talent and ability is still there, but not the raw power.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^^.

Marinelli interview where he discusses the toll the NCAA tournament has on his body:

 
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matter7172 said:
Alex was really impressive in the regular season and B1Gs. However, I noticed on Flo that his points at nationals went from 13 last year to 7.5 this year. I know he hit Mekhi in the quarters, but that, to me, is sort of alarming drop, even with his slight slide from 6th to 7th place.

In any case, that's not what you'd like to see for freshman to sophomore seasons. Is he plateauing at nationals? The weight class will be loaded again next season if everyone stays in it. I wouldn't be shocked to see him finish around the same spot.
Click to expand...

Kind of pointless to just look at the points scored without looking at how they happened. Last season Marinelli got falls in the 1st and 2nd round, both in the last minute of the bout. That and the 2 point differential between 6th and 7th is the difference in points scored. Also, his 1st round bout this year was against Joe Smith who was seeded #33 because he had only Big 12 tournament matches at 165. But you probably knew all of this anyway.
 
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Matter,

This seems like a trap....

Do you feel the same about Nick Lee? Didnt he get 5th last year and this year?

"In any case, that's not what you'd like to see for freshman to sophomore seasons. Is he plateauing at nationals?"
 
I think Marinelli's performance, or lack thereof, on the backside was due to the disappointment of knowing he was no longer competing for the national championship. He came into the NCAAs as the #1 seed on the highest of highs, having dominated VJ at Big Tens, and then beat probably the best #32 seed the tournament has ever seen. Losing to Lewis just absolutely deflated him and he never recovered, mentally.
My prediction - if he had won that last second scramble with Lewis in the quarters he would have been wrestling Saturday night, with a really good chance of beating VJ for the title.
 
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Nick didn’t draw Kaid Brock first round and then Andrew Alirez in the quarters either though.

Matter, you tend to miss the forest for the trees sometimes.
 
I would like to agree somewhat with the OP. Evans was a scoring machine through high school and then wrestled defensive in big matches. If Marinelli were to have wrestled the tournament like he did the BiG final, he is not 7th. The potential is there to be an offensive wrestler. He just seems to wrestle scared to lose on the biggest stage.
 
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okinburg1 said:
I think Marinelli's performance, or lack thereof, on the backside was due to the disappointment of knowing he was no longer competing for the national championship. He came into the NCAAs as the #1 seed on the highest of highs, having dominated VJ at Big Tens, and then beat probably the best #32 seed the tournament has ever seen. Losing to Lewis just absolutely deflated him and he never recovered, mentally.
My prediction - if he had won that last second scramble with Lewis in the quarters he would have been wrestling Saturday night, with a really good chance of beating VJ for the title.
Click to expand...
Couldn't have been too deflated since he came back to beat Massa and then lost a close one to Chance and then beat Steiert for 7th. May have accumulated less points but beat some tough kids and as stated lost a close one to Lewis. Case can be made he wrestled Lewis tougher than anyone in the tournament
 
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PANCAKE1 said:
I think that the Bulls 7th place finish is a direct result of his style of wrestling, He is so physical that a 3 day tourny simply wears his body down to the point that it takes several days for recovery.

To put it another way, The bull was not the same wrestler in the backside as he was the front side. Talent and ability is still there, but not the raw power.
Click to expand...
Can’t agree more. He expends A lot of energy in a typical match due to his superb aggressiveness. That does not translate well when trying to wrestle many elite guys consecutively as one would tend to wear down.

His aggressiveness and power may be the biggest factor that permits him to win a single match. Perfectly fresh, he may be undefeatable. That’s two years in a row he kind of faded In consolations. It certainly could be part mental.
 
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matter7172 said:
That wouldn't surprise me too much either. The point drop is the thing that gives me the most pause. Even with the draw, you'd think he would do better or that a year later he would be better and the "draw" wouldn't matter. He *was* the 1 seed, after all. Looking at the brackets, the road to the first loss was pretty easy for him, Isiah in the semis. But then he went winless in consolations, losing to Wick and McFadden. So the 13 points could have been matched this year, especially when he at least won two matches in wrestlebacks.
Click to expand...
Chance beat him in consi's. Not a good match up for Alex as he is made for Chance's high crotch
 
y2jriden said:
matter, why rip the guy after the fact? he had a difficult draw, he got upset by the eventual champ. seems like piling on.

and he's still a huge threat next year
Click to expand...

I don't know that it's ripping him. It's a bit of a puzzle and two tournaments have had pretty much the same results with a bit of a decline. I think there have been some good ideas about the reasons behind it.
 
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Brutal weight class which, partly due to injuries, was tougher than 133 at the end of the year. If they ran it back next weekend, I'd list Lewis, Cenzo, Marinelli, Marstellar, and Wick as guys who could win. I'd include Shields, Massa, White as guys who could be top 5. And I'm probably missing somebody. Marinelli isn't wrestling for 2nd. Maybe dropping down into the consolation bracket is really hard on him mentally. Other than that, nothing wrong with that guy. He's obviously a tough style matchup for Cenzo, but maybe not as much for a few of the other top guys.
 
Also important to note that his only losses were to the 1st and 3rd place finishers in Lewis and Marsteller. Marsteller ended up avenging his only tournament loss for 3rd. His 7th place finish was largely influenced by the way the bracket fell. If he had Cenzo's draw, he probably takes 2nd, and this conversation isn't happening.

This is pretty cut and dry in my opinion. He had tougher early round matches that prevented him from matching last year's bonus (he did get a major in R2). Even the Iowa fans who still picked him to win were pissed about the draw because they knew he wouldn't pick up bonus. He lost to the best and 3rd best guy in the bracket. I'm honestly not convinced that Joseph would have beaten Marsteller either. At their best, I take Joseph all day, but I don't think Joseph was firing on all cylinders at the end of this season for whatever reason, and he didn't look very good to me last weekend (by his standards obviously).
 
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eddy line said:
This ^^^^^.

Marinelli interview where he discusses the toll the NCAA tournament has on his body:

View embedded media
Click to expand...

Caveat: I know nothing about his genetics. So take that into account when I say in football players, of which I was one, that hairline in a very young adult can mean something. Not saying anything more than that.
 
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js8793 said:
Also important to note that his only losses were to the 1st and 3rd place finishers in Lewis and Marsteller. Marsteller ended up avenging his only tournament loss for 3rd. His 7th place finish was largely influenced by the way the bracket fell. If he had Cenzo's draw, he probably takes 2nd, and this conversation isn't happening.

This is pretty cut and dry in my opinion. He had tougher early round matches that prevented him from matching last year's bonus (he did get a major in R2). Even the Iowa fans who still picked him to win were pissed about the draw because they knew he wouldn't pick up bonus. He lost to the best and 3rd best guy in the bracket. I'm honestly not convinced that Joseph would have beaten Marsteller either. At their best, I take Joseph all day, but I don't think Joseph was firing on all cylinders at the end of this season for whatever reason, and he didn't look very good to me last weekend (by his standards obviously).
Click to expand...


I take nothing from his #7 finish. I think losing to Lewis a #8 seed was somewhat demoralizing at the time. Now Lewis is the one to beat period he is a beast and the next year will start #1. If Lewis Moves up (he is a physical specimen) then it will be all Cenzo and Bull next year. He seems to be a great kid and to compare his to Evans is wrong on so many levels. Now comparing Stoll to Evans well...
 
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This sounds odd to say but I thought Joseph looked good after he got cradled by Lewis ... went into attack mode and got in deep a few times but Lewis at that point knew he just had to go defense mode and he executed it perfected.
 
McScoreley said:
This sounds odd to say but I thought Joseph looked good after he got cradled by Lewis ... went into attack mode and got in deep a few times but Lewis at that point knew he just had to go defense mode and he executed it perfected.
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he ran out of time in the 2nd period and had to hurry the finish that resulted in a non-td... More time I would guess he centers Lewis and gets two.
 
Yup ... it's how it goes unfortunately. Cenzo now knows 2 things going forward:

1. Don't bearhug and go upper body with the Bull
2. Keep your head up trying to get out of bottom against Mekhi Lewis/Evan Wick (or just don't take bottom)

I know a lot of people (so basically non PSU fans) are writing Cenzo off at this point as #3 or 4 in the weight class but I am picking him to win next year.
 
Last edited:
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McScoreley said:
Yup ... it's how it goes unfortunately. Cenzo now knows 2 things going forward:

1. Don't bearhug and go upper body with the Bull
2. Keep your head up trying to get out of bottom against Mekhi Lewis/Evan Wick (or just don't take bottom)

I know a lot of people (so basically non PSU fans) are writing Cenzo off at this point as #3 or 4 in the weight class but I am picking him to win next year.
Click to expand...

I think with the career he has had and his record (14-1) at NCAA's proves he will be right there next year. Once Lewis got 4 points off of the cradle it was over. Lewis proved to be difficult to score on and with a 4 point lead it was game over.
 
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js8793 said:
At their best, I take Joseph all day, but I don't think Joseph was firing on all cylinders at the end of this season for whatever reason, and he didn't look very good to me last weekend (by his standards obviously).
Click to expand...

I thought Cenzo looked fine at Nationals. I get why you think that but he wrestled about what I expected. I take nothing from the Bull's finish, that was 100% a result of the draw. Marinelli is absolutely not 7th best at 165.

I don't think Hidlay is 4th best at 157, I don't think MyMar is 3rd best at 184 and I don't think Gable is 3rd best at 285 ... it's just where they placed at NCAAs.

As for Cenzo, he: Pinned his first opponent, his 2nd opponent seemed content on not getting bonused, his match with White went exactly as I expected and similar with the Shields match. I did not think he was going to bonus Shields twice in a season (especially since I think that is the only time in his career that Shields has been bonused, at the PSU/ASU dual) Stylistically, Cenzo for the most part is okay with winning some close matches.

I really think Cenzo is a learner for the most part. I don't think he's ever been cradled in his career and will have to learn to adjust getting off from bottom against long opponents (maybe it's just not taking bottom at all) He has avenged multiple losses in his careers.

Keaton Subjeck
Isaac Jordan
IMar

Hopefully he can add Bull to the list eventually and Mekhi Lewis.
 
matter7172 said:
I don't know that it's ripping him. It's a bit of a puzzle and two tournaments have had pretty much the same results with a bit of a decline. I think there have been some good ideas about the reasons behind it.
Click to expand...
A puzzle on the surface. Others have dug one level deeper, and lo-an-behold, found info that made the two years apples-to-oranges. Won't pretend to read your mind and understand your motivation...it does feel to me like a shot at an Iowa wrestler.
 
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McScoreley said:
Yup ... it's how it goes unfortunately. Cenzo now knows 2 things going forward:

1. Don't bearhug and go upper body with the Bull
2. Keep your head up trying to get out of bottom against Mekhi Lewis/Evan Wick (or just don't take bottom)

I know a lot of people (so basically non PSU fans) are writing Cenzo off at this point as #3 or 4 in the weight class but I am picking him to win next year.
Click to expand...

I think Cenzo is better as the underdog. When people count him out that’s when he comes up big. He will be the underdog next year and I like his chances for a third title.
 
RoarLions1 said:
A puzzle on the surface. Others have dug one level deeper, and lo-an-behold, found info that made the two years apples-to-oranges. Won't pretend to read your mind and understand your motivation...it does feel to me like a shot at an Iowa wrestler.
Click to expand...

They were around the same weight and both top recruits. Evans sort of stalled at the 6th spot at nationals and Marinelli has gone 6th and 7th his first two years, his points dropping almost 50% this year. So to me, Marinelli reminds me of Evans. I don't think it's bizarre or hinting at some kind of agenda. It's a legitimate question in my mind. But okay.
 
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Just thought I’d throw this out. Evans nearly knocked Perry out of the semi finals in 2014 but for a non-called neutral pin. That was after he beat Matt Brown in the quarters. Brown then got him in the backside for 5th place.
 
RedCal said:
Just thought I’d throw this out. Evans nearly knocked Perry out of the semi finals in 2014 but for a non-called neutral pin. That was after he beat Matt Brown in the quarters. Brown then got him in the backside for 5th place.
Click to expand...

Perry was dead flat in that match for multiple seconds. Ref just simply didn’t have the stones today call it but Evans should have won that match
 
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