Is Nick Saban a good coach?

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

This is what he said to the media:



Would you get bent out of shape if Franklin did this?

We have a 4-0 record. If Saban were our coach, maybe he would have the media get its material from this board, or just pin the Patriot-News in the locker room.

What would Saban post in our Game Thread while we're winning big against weak teams?

 

[Art]

Seriously? Get bent out of shape about that? Not hardly.

And, yes, he's a good coach, a very good one.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Is there really any question he is a good college coach anymore? Honestly?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

This is what he said to the media:

View embedded media

Would you get bent out of shape if Franklin did this?

We have a 4-0 record. If Saban were our coach, maybe he would have the media get its material from this board, or just pin the Patriot-News in the locker room.

What would Saban post in our Game Thread while we're winning big against weak teams?

There is a body of work out there to look at:

Toledo: 9-2 (1990)
Michigan State: 34-24-1 (1995-1999)
LSU: 48-16 (2000-2004 - 1 NC)
Alabama - 131-20 (2007-Present - 5 NCs)

So, what changed from Michigan State to Alabama? Easy:

Alabama Recruiting Class Rankings Under Saban (per Rivals):

2007 - 10
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2010 - 5
2011 - 1
2012 - 1
2013 - 1
2014 - 1
2015 - 2
2016 - 1
2017 - 1
2018 - 7

 

[Nitt1300]

He's the best there is now, the best there's ever been, the best there ever will be.

 

[Option Bob]

There is a body of work out there to look at:

Toledo: 9-2 (1990)
Michigan State: 34-24-1 (1995-1999)
LSU: 48-16 (2000-2004 - 1 NC)
Alabama - 131-20 (2007-Present - 5 NCs)

So, what changed from Michigan State to Alabama? Easy:

Alabama Recruiting Class Rankings Under Saban (per Rivals):

2007 - 10
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2010 - 5
2011 - 1
2012 - 1
2013 - 1
2014 - 1
2015 - 2
2016 - 1
2017 - 1
2018 - 7

another change: no Honig, Witvoet, or Lemonier.

 

[Obliviax]

no...he sucks. his teams are really really lucky.

 

[Grant Green]

There is a body of work out there to look at:

Toledo: 9-2 (1990)
Michigan State: 34-24-1 (1995-1999)
LSU: 48-16 (2000-2004 - 1 NC)
Alabama - 131-20 (2007-Present - 5 NCs)

So, what changed from Michigan State to Alabama? Easy:

Alabama Recruiting Class Rankings Under Saban (per Rivals):

2007 - 10
2008 - 1
2009 - 1
2010 - 5
2011 - 1
2012 - 1
2013 - 1
2014 - 1
2015 - 2
2016 - 1
2017 - 1
2018 - 7

No doubt his recruiting classes make a huge difference, but the 2005-2006 classes were 18 and 11? Including the 2007 #10 class, those were mostly the kids he was coaching when he won the championship in 2009. He was 7-6 in his first year and then 12-2 in his second. He is 10-4 in bowl/playoff games in that time period against teams that you expect to have similar talent.

He is a complete ass to the media, but in this case, I have no problem with what he said. He doesn't want his team reading their own glowing press clippings.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

No doubt his recruiting classes make a huge difference, but the 2005-2006 classes were 18 and 11? Including the 2007 #10 class, those were mostly the kids he was coaching when he won the championship in 2009. He was 7-6 in his first year and then 12-2 in his second. He is 10-4 in bowl/playoff games in that time period against teams that you expect to have similar talent.

He is a complete ass to the media, but in this case, I have no problem with what he said. He doesn't want his team reading their own glowing press clippings.

Part of being a good college coach is recruiting...hell it's a huge part of it. There have been a ton of great recruiters that didn't have the success Saban has....nor did their teams get new Dodges, but you still have to line them up and play the game.

 

[IANit]

This is what he said to the media:

View embedded media

Would you get bent out of shape if Franklin did this?

We have a 4-0 record. If Saban were our coach, maybe he would have the media get its material from this board, or just pin the Patriot-News in the locker room.

What would Saban post in our Game Thread while we're winning big against weak teams?

I don't have a problem with it. He's trying to keep the players from getting big heads. I think Nick Saban's a great coach, but also a little overrated. His best record at MSU was 9-2. He didn't win a bowl game there. His record at MSU prior to that last season was 23-22-1. He was not even Kirk Ferentz-successful in the Big Ten. He won a title at LSU, but the team was only competitive once in four years and got lucky by playing a weak Oklahoma team (lost to K-State 35-7) instead of USC. Despite having the most talent money can buy for many years running, he's only managed one undefeated-untied season. Franklin has done a lot more with less than Saban. He's in the process of building a Saban-like program here, hopefully without the bag men involved.

 

[fairgambit]

He is the best of the best.

 

[IANit]

He is the best of the best.

I'd take Joe in his prime any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

[fairgambit]

I'd take Joe in his prime any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

If you are talking about life lessons, and preparing young men for their lives beyond football, I agree. If you are talking about winning games and championships, Saban stands alone.

 

[Cowbell Man]

He's the best there is now, the best there's ever been, the best there ever will be.

Which might be said of JVP if someone had just voted him the 4 other NC’s he deserves.

6 NC’s and 5 undefeated seasons.

 

[IANit]

If you are talking about life lessons, and preparing young men for their lives beyond football, I agree. If you are talking about winning games and championships, Saban stands alone.

Saban doesn't play on a fair field. If Joe had the same "advantages" he'd have 10 undefeated-untied seasons.

 

[Hotshoe]

Here's the thing, and it's not a rip on Saban. He's a great coach and recruiter, no doubt. That said. What has he invented or created in the game of football? To me, that's got to be taken into consideration. People often mock Joe for his style of football and staying longer than he should have. If you want to know true greatness, ask today's best coaches who they model and who influenced them. Joe's tree is incredibly long here. He was also very innovative and creative. Not many coaches really are. Ask Urban. His D is based on Joe.

http://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/44189/spurrier-saban-statements-on-paterno

https://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/09/nick_saban_to_joe_paterno_your.html

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...res-who-were-influenced-by-joe-paterno#slide0

And boom. How ironic.

https://articles.cleveland.com/osu/2012/01/urban_meyer_calls_joe_paterno.amp

 

[fairgambit]

Saban doesn't play on a fair field. If Joe had the same "advantages" he'd have 10 undefeated-untied seasons.

I won't disagree with that. He plays by "SEC rules" and those are different. I would not say he cheats, but he uses the system to his best advantage. I'm not sure Joe would agree to do the same.

 

[Art]

No doubt his recruiting classes make a huge difference, but the 2005-2006 classes were 18 and 11? Including the 2007 #10 class, those were mostly the kids he was coaching when he won the championship in 2009. He was 7-6 in his first year and then 12-2 in his second. He is 10-4 in bowl/playoff games in that time period against teams that you expect to have similar talent.

He is a complete ass to the media, but in this case, I have no problem with what he said. He doesn't want his team reading their own glowing press clippings.

Being an ass to the media? That's another reason to like him

 

[nits74]

Being an ass to the media? That's another reason to like him

And Joe also developed this attribute over time.

 

[RU31trap]

Very few schools can sell Alabama's vision to recruits. Nick Saban's sales pitch has created such a talent gap it is now very difficult to close that gap. Yes, Nick Saban is a very good coach but his recruits make him look even more impressive. JMHO

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The people who say that Saban is not a great coach and just recruits well remind me of the insanely jealous Iowa Wrestling fans talking about Cael

 

[IANit]

Very few schools can sell Alabama's vision to recruits. Nick Saban sales pitch has created such a talent gap it is now very difficult to close that gap. Yes, Nick Saban is a very good coach but his recruits make him look even more impressive. JMHO

I'm guessing it's combination of the vision and having a better bag man than some of the other schools out there:
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/4/10/5594348/college-football-bag-man-interview

 

[IANit]

The people who say that Saban is not a great coach and just recruits well remind me of the insanely jealous Iowa Wrestling fans talking about Cael

Well, if you ask some Iowa fans they'll say we're using our slush fund to cheat to get all those great wrestlers.

 

[christoph]

You don’t need to be a great coach with those players. The guy is no better than 10-20 other coaches. He went to a school where kids could just play football and not be students in the traditional sense and in the south where there is talent everywhere. What else he does to keep the pipeline going is unknown at this time.

 

[Lion-skier]

This is what he said to the media:

View embedded media

Would you get bent out of shape if Franklin did this?

We have a 4-0 record. If Saban were our coach, maybe he would have the media get its material from this board, or just pin the Patriot-News in the locker room.

What would Saban post in our Game Thread while we're winning big against weak teams?

He's a good coach and an even better recruiter.

 

[Art]

You don’t need to be a great coach with those players. The guy is no better than 10-20 other coaches. He went to a school where kids could just play football and not be students in the traditional sense and in the south where there is talent everywhere. What else he does to keep the pipeline going is unknown at this time.

Really? Alabama's most recent grad rate is seven percentage points lower than PSU's.

 

[IANit]

Really? Alabama's most recent grad rate is seven percentage points lower than PSU's.

Alabama is #129 per US News, while PSU is #59.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Well, if you ask some Iowa fans they'll say we're using our slush fund to cheat to get all those great wrestlers.

They are precious

 

[KnightWhoSaysNit]

My original post was a bit of a rhetorical question. I get that PSU and Alabama are at a different place and differ in terms of recent history, so what's appropriate for one might not be for the other. But I nevertheless found it a bit ironic, even humorous, as did the media present. It made me think of this message board.

No need to reply or debate. Perhaps just a little introspection.

 

[Art]

Alabama is #129 per US News, while PSU is #59.

Yeah and all of the kids on the football fit the academic profile that is identical to the one US News uses to come up with it's rankings.

And since you put so much stock in US News rankings perhaps you can tell us how many course syllabi they've reviewed, how many classes they've sat in on, and how many exams or research paper assignments they've evaluated at both schools.

 

[Grant Green]

Being an ass to the media? That's another reason to like him

It's still being an ass and in my eyes still makes him look bad. I don't mind when a guy gets short or snarky with the press the press here and there, but guys like Saban, Belichick, and Popovich take it to another level.

 

[Art]

It's still being an ass and in my eyes still makes him look bad. I don't mind when a guy gets short or snarky with the press the press here and there, but guys like Saban, Belichick, and Popovich take it to another level.

Funny how each of the three you mention are at or near the top of the coaching ladder in their sports.

 

[Grant Green]

Funny how each of the three you mention are at or near the top of the coaching ladder in their sports.

Great success brings great arrogance.

 

[Art]

Great success brings great arrogance.

Or in the words of Classy Freddie Blassie, paraphrasing Muhammad Ali, "It's hard to be humble when you're great."

 

[Grant Green]

Or in the words of Classy Freddie Blassie, paraphrasing Muhammad Ali, "It's hard to be humble when you're great."

Well, I value humility, so I guess that is where we differ.

 

[Mile High Lion]

I have no problem with what he said. Absolutely none. Didn't Joe say something along the line if you aren't getting better you are getting worse. You never just stand still and hold your ground. If he didn't he should have because it is true.

 

[Art]

Well, I value humility, so I guess that is where we differ.

Humility is vastly overrated.

 

[Nitt1300]

Humility is vastly overrated.

not mine- mine is the greatest humility of all time

 

[IANit]

Yeah and all of the kids on the football fit the academic profile that is identical to the one US News uses to come up with it's rankings.

And since you put so much stock in US News rankings perhaps you can tell us how many course syllabi they've reviewed, how many classes they've sat in on, and how many exams or research paper assignments they've evaluated at both schools.

I don't put much stock in US News rankings, but do you really have any doubt that PSU is significantly better academically than UA?

 

[Tri-Power65]

I remember years ago when Nick Saban was still at MSU, there as a poster on this board (Manassas Lion?) that would insist PSU should try to get Saban to replace JoePa. Everyone on the board thought this suggestion was ridiculous...

And, yes, he is an excellent coach (of course). As is Meyer.