Is Ohtani the best baseball talent since that fat kid the Red Sox developed over 100 years ago?
- Thread starter Mister Magoo
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Let him do it for 5-10 years, then get back to me.
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This kid is super good for sure... the 9th inning Pesky Pole hr a few days ago was a heart breaker. He just needs to stay healthy
If the mlb system would allow for two way players more often Josh Hamilton would have also been able to do this provided he stayed clean. Mark Kotsay was the last guy in college I remember who was a good two way player as an OF and closer.
He’s such a good hitter, I’d try to talk..err..pay his way out of wanting to pitch. Injury risk too highLet him do it for 5-10 years, then get back to me.
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Does he DH or play in the field everyday. Seems like pitching once every 6-7 days and being the DH on off days would not be a real difficult task to both stay healthy and be a hitter while still be able to pitch on a normal rotation.
There aren't too many guys who can throw it 100 mph and hit it 500+ feet. Plus, he is apparently pretty damn fast as well.
And he's on the same team as Trout. If the Angels would sign some decent pitching, perhaps they could contend. Pujols' bloated contract (he gets $30MM this year) expiring after this season will be a big help to the Angels in that regard..
And he's on the same team as Trout. If the Angels would sign some decent pitching, perhaps they could contend. Pujols' bloated contract (he gets $30MM this year) expiring after this season will be a big help to the Angels in that regard..
Huh? Pitchers get hurt all the time. He’s in their rotation. And, other pitchers aren’t playing on their off days. They’re preparing for their next start
Derek Lowe, former Red Sox pitching great, was a good friend of a good friend of mine. Back during the 2004 season D-Lowe was actually sleeping on my buddies couch as he and his wife were on the outs. I had a few opportunities to hang out with him and I remember clearly him telling me the single best job in all pro sports was staring pitcher. The reason being the 1-2 days after a start there is basically zero accountability to the team... and when they are on a road trip he could party his ass off with no concern about getting in trouble with management.
my point was if you want to keep him a two way player, that being a DH seems like a good way to have his hitting in the line-up (which is really what you want) with minimizing the wear and tear of being the field such that he can keep his pitching up to higher standards. Ie...no way you will ever see a pitchter who on his off days is catching as it would be too much. But acting like a starting pitcher could not DH on his days off as somehow that would be too tiring for him is a little crazy.
Being you included some numbers, are you asking talent or production? He has immense talent, whether “the best” is completely subjective and impossible to prove either way.
His actual production isn’t near “the best” level. The ERA listed is over 5 starts averaging 5 innings. I remember his rookie year the Angels delaying his starts so that he ended up facing less successful opponents.
A shame if he ends up like Bo and try to do too much and end up not really excelling at either when all is said and done.
sort of off topic, but Ichiro was a guy that people forget came over to MLB when he was slightly past his prime. If he started in MLB at age 20ish, I think he is up there in the Mount Rushmore of hitting with Pete Rose, Ty Cobb, Tedd Williams, type of history.
Ichiro is a Hall of Famer of the first rank, IMHO. His batting abilities were fantastic, but he also had a hose for an arm. I saw him peg guys trying to advance from first to third on a single several times. Just a frozen rope from right field to third base.
My idea of quality entertainment would be watching Ichiro, Clemente, Mays and Dewey Evans peg balls from right field to third base. I know Mays was not a right fielder, but he ranks with the other named guys as having about the best outfield arm you are gonna find.
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sure, Ichiro will be first ballot Hall of Famer no doubt. But if Ichiro starts in majors at age of 20, he is probably challenging Pete Rose for all time hits leader and might be looked at literally as the best pure hitter of all time. Difference between hall of fame and discussion amongst greatest ever.
Uh, that fat kid Boston developed was actually not fat at the time, and was under-appreciated by the Red Sox, who traded him to the Yankees for a pittance. With the Yankees, he saved baseball from the Black Sox scandal, invented the modern game of power baseball, and strode across the sports pages and front pages of the world's publications like a demi-god. He created the Yankees dynasty, with Lou Gehrig. That was never happening in Boston.
You probably aren't old enough to remember The Reading Rifle.
Nicknamed “The Reading Rifle” after his home town of Reading, PA, Furillo came to play. His claim to fame was his incredibly strong throwing arm (hence the ‘Rifle’ part of his nickname). During his career, he recorded 151 outfield assists with a high of 24 in 1951 and nine seasons with ten or more assists. He participated in 34 double plays while throwing out seven runners at first base who most likely made a turn too wide. He once fielded a clean line drive hit by pitcher Mel Queen of the Pirates and threw him out at first base in the eighth inning to preserve a no-hitter on which Ralph Branca was working.
Roger Kahn in “The Boys of Summer” writes that fans came to Ebbets Field early to watch Carl Furillo warm-up: “Others came out, thousands of others, long before the formal competition started, to watch the warm-up throws. You could hear gasps at Ebbets Field and sometimes, an hour before game time, bursts of applause.”
With Ohtani's first full season now complete, I still wonder if he was overextending himself trying to perform both pitching and batting. Quite often he had his pitching starts skipped/delayed day(s) to the point that he didn’t come close to pitching enough innings to qualify in the ERA race. As a comparison of how his season went:
His pitching improved from the first half to the second half:
His batting significantly dropped, especially in Aug/Sept:
Maybe the drop in batting was related to this being his first full season in the MLB and he will adjust.
His pitching improved from the first half to the second half:
1st: 60 inning, 3-1 record, 3.60 ERA
2nd: 70.3 innings, 6-1 record, 2.82 ERA
Total: 130.3 innings, 9-2 record, 3.18 ERA
His batting significantly dropped, especially in Aug/Sept:
1st: 58 Runs, 30 HR 66 RBIs, .280 BA
2nd: 45 Runs, 16 HR, 34 RBIs, .233 BA
Total: 103 Runs, 46 HR, 100 RBIs, .257 BA
Maybe the drop in batting was related to this being his first full season in the MLB and he will adjust.
I would have loved to see Dave Parker close out a game for the Pirates. Lots of pitchers who were the star SS or CF in HS but because the system only let them play 1 spot back then, they gave it up. No telling how many guys could have done it back in the day
You can kiss the pitcher in the batting order goodbye in the next collective bargaining agreement, so Ohtani will always have that option available to him wherever he plays. It's really unfortunate that the two best players in baseball, even though Trout was disabled most of the year, never even sniffed the post-season because the Angels have a dreadful pitching staff.
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Not sure you meant that, players are fighting hard for DH in both leagues.
Yikes, I reversed it! I meant you can kiss the batting pitcher in the NL goodbye. The Universal DH will be here as early as next year.
That is correct, but if you ask most people they would say that Bonds had a terrible arm. But it goes 173, 157, and 154.
Bonds did not have a good arm. Terrible might not be an appropriate description, but the throw in ‘92 was.
The number of assists doesn’t necessarily correlate to quality of an outfielder’s arm. Some guys with good reputations don’t get challenged as much as some others.
Bonds did have excellent range and I don’t remember any issues with his glove.
He's got to be right up there for single-season greatness. A few years ago Detroit's Cabrera won the triple crown and I was surprised that didn't get more press. To lead the entire league in HR, RBI and BA is incredible.
But he's not going to stay healthy with that workload. If I am the angles, I make him a pitcher or a position player and hold pat.
But he's not going to stay healthy with that workload. If I am the angles, I make him a pitcher or a position player and hold pat.
Meh...let him do it in the NL, the way God intended, and get back to me.
If were are just looking at versatility ....pitching and hitting.....I can't recall anyone like him since Babe. However, there have been phenoms that are like shooting stars that fade quickly. I'd rather see how he sustains his talent over 6-10 years before I put him with the Babe. Babe could have been a HOF pitcher. Everyone knows the Babe's homerun prowess but he is the all time leader in Slg ops and ops plus had 89 wins as a pitcher when he essentially quit at age 24 was 3-0 in the WS with an era .87.....I'd say Ohtani has a way to go....
We don't know how many other super athletes would have tried both if it was a thing. Dave Winfield might have had a 100mph fastball, but pitching and hitting weren't going to happen in the '70s and '80s. Dave Parker was already mentioned in this thread. Could Madison Bumgarner have played outfield when he wasn't pitching? Heck, will Ohtani still be pitching in two or three years?
Is there even anyone else worth mentioning with him? If he didn’t pitch, Griffey JR, Mantle, Trout and many players who started in negro leagues would compare to his hitting prowess. Maybe others could have been great pitchers as well, but were forces to focus on hitting. I’m no baseball historian but only guy close is Roy Hobbs.
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If he did not pitch there have been dozens of players who hit 40 HRs and a .270 avg
