Is this OK?

[junior1]

Can you cite for me the case numbers and names of cases where the disaster claimants were chrged and convicted of the crime of fraud?

you hit on part of the problem. I don't know this for a fact, but I would expect that not one of the fraudsters were charged. For, court expenses on a $2,000 fraud the government would pay twice that much. So authorities write it off.

Now, in anticipation, if you're going to ask me for facts to support my opinion, I will tell you upfront I have none. But, if you're intimating from your question that there was zero fraud, I'd ask you for data that supports your position. The fact that no one was charged is kind of analogous to why thousands of shoplifters have not been charged. We have lazy, ineffective , and likely an inadequate number of prosecutors and inadequacy of court time. Just because no one was charged doesn't mean it didn't happen

 

[demlion]

you hit on part of the problem. I don't know this for a fact, but I would expect that not one of the fraudsters were charged. For, court expenses on a $2,000 fraud the government would pay twice that much. So authorities write it off.

Now, in anticipation, if you're going to ask me for facts to support my opinion, I will tell you upfront I have none. But, if you're intimating from your question that there was zero fraud, I'd ask you for data that supports your position. The fact that no one was charged is kind of analogous to why thousands of shoplifters have not been charged. We have lazy, ineffective , and likely an inadequate number of prosecutors and inadequacy of court time. Just because no one was charged doesn't mean it didn't happen

Ok, show me the GD evidence of the $36k (18 names x $2000)fraudster, and the decision NOT to charge him. What IS his REAL name, btw? And why do you suppose GW Bush blew it off for the last 3-4 years of his Presidency? No interest in fraud against the taxpayer?

 

[bdgan]

.Google has a 2018-2023 GAO study sited that says annual WFA is from $233 -$510 billion.
.Medicaid grew fro $315 billion in 2019 to $878 billion in 2024. Anyone want to explain that to me?

.

Medicare expansion started with the Affordable Care Act. Then Biden/CMS changed the rules which drove costs up further. It's not necessarily fraud and many wouldn't consider it waste. In fact they might consider it the right thing to do (with no means to pay for it). But yes, Medicaid spending has increased substantially.

KFF says:

• Capping per enrollee spending could reduce federal spending by $532 billion to nearly $1 trillion dollars between FY 2025 and FY 2034. Depending on how states respond, the policy could shift costs to states by $532 billion and leave total Medicaid spending unchanged or total Medicaid spending could decline by 14% (or $1.4 trillion).
• If per capita caps were implemented jointly with the elimination of the enhanced ACA expansion match rate, federal Medicaid spending could decline by $1 trillion to $2.1 trillion dollars between FY 2025 and FY 2034. Depending on how states respond, this combination of policies could shift costs to states by $1 trillion and leave total Medicaid spending unchanged or total Medicaid spending could decline by a quarter (or $2.6 trillion).

But trust me, there would be an enormous outcry if this happened. I even saw an outcry from people/agencies that have lost extra funds from the American Rescue Plan (Covid) as they expired.

 

[junior1]

Ok, show me the GD evidence of the $36k (18 names x $2000)fraudster, and the decision NOT to charge him. What IS his REAL name, btw? And why do you suppose GW Bush blew it off for the last 3-4 years of his Presidency? No interest in fraud against the taxpayer?

being a little passive aggressive, or just aggressive. If you're taking a position that there's no fraud from government payouts, again, IMO you're on the wrong side of this debate. Just look back at previous federal budgets and how many of them have been put together through "savings" from eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse. And, this issue is not just a democrat one. Both parties have been guilty of inadequate management of the nations resources. As I've posted many times, the federal government is so big and it's management programs are so ineffective, they simply cannot manage these multi $$billion programs.

You're trying the lawyerly approach of give me the names case numbers etc....The other side of that is prove it didn't happen. Sure, there was no fraud in all the money handed out during the COVID expenditures, every dollar in Medicaid/medicare is spent correctly, or one you might like, there's no fraud in the $$billions paid out by the defense department.

It's kind of fascinating to watch one party taking such a hard line against fighting fraud. I would think that democrats would be better served by having people work on DOGE so 1. they'd be on the inside and 2. they could help take credit for the savings.

At last survey, 80% of those surveyed like what DOGE is doing in saving money.

 

[demlion]

being a little passive aggressive, or just aggressive. If you're taking a position that there's no fraud from government payouts, again, IMO you're on the wrong side of this debate. Just look back at previous federal budgets and how many of them have been put together through "savings" from eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse. And, this issue is not just a democrat one. Both parties have been guilty of inadequate management of the nations resources. As I've posted many times, the federal government is so big and it's management programs are so ineffective, they simply cannot manage these multi $$billion programs.

You're trying the lawyerly approach of give me the names case numbers etc....The other side of that is prove it didn't happen. Sure, there was no fraud in all the money handed out during the COVID expenditures, every dollar in Medicaid/medicare is spent correctly, or one you might like, there's no fraud in the $$billions paid out by the defense department.

It's kind of fascinating to watch one party taking such a hard line against fighting fraud. I would think that democrats would be better served by having people work on DOGE so 1. they'd be on the inside and 2. they could help take credit for the savings.

At last survey, 80% of those surveyed like what DOGE is doing in saving money.

There's fraud, waste and abuse, just like there is in corporate conduct. But if you are gonna make a specific argument about a specific set of facts, provide those facts or STFU. You don't get to cite a specific set of facts with NO source info. It is what liars do.
It weakens your argument to have zero evidence for your claims.

 

[junior1]

There's fraud, waste and abuse, just like there is in corporate conduct. But if you are gonna make a specific argument about a specific set of facts, provide those facts or STFU. You don't get to cite a specific set of facts with NO source info. It is what liars do.
It weakens your argument to have zero evidence for your claims.

go back a couple of posts. I didn't start the discussion about fraud in WV. I only responded to your post about case numbers and names.

You wanted case numbers and names for proof, I only asked you for proof that fraud didn't happen. Sorry you're so upset. Touch a nerve, perhaps?

 

[demlion]

go back a couple of posts. I didn't start the discussion about fraud in WV. I only responded to your post about case numbers and names.

You wanted case numbers and names for proof, I only asked you for proof that fraud didn't happen. Sorry you're so upset. Touch a nerve, perhaps?

Not upset. Just making sure that people who write what appear to be empty BS claims support them. You don't have similar standards. Sorry you make such illogical choices.

 

[roswelllion]

Medicare expansion started with the Affordable Care Act. Then Biden/CMS changed the rules which drove costs up further. It's not necessarily fraud and many wouldn't consider it waste. In fact they might consider it the right thing to do (with no means to pay for it). But yes, Medicaid spending has increased substantially.

KFF says:

• Capping per enrollee spending could reduce federal spending by $532 billion to nearly $1 trillion dollars between FY 2025 and FY 2034. Depending on how states respond, the policy could shift costs to states by $532 billion and leave total Medicaid spending unchanged or total Medicaid spending could decline by 14% (or $1.4 trillion).
• If per capita caps were implemented jointly with the elimination of the enhanced ACA expansion match rate, federal Medicaid spending could decline by $1 trillion to $2.1 trillion dollars between FY 2025 and FY 2034. Depending on how states respond, this combination of policies could shift costs to states by $1 trillion and leave total Medicaid spending unchanged or total Medicaid spending could decline by a quarter (or $2.6 trillion).

But trust me, there would be an enormous outcry if this happened. I even saw an outcry from people/agencies that have lost extra funds from the American Rescue Plan (Covid) as they expired.

so what was the medicaid expansion due too? ACA required people actually buy insurance. when no one purchased any they raised the threshold for medicaid so people could get health care without paying?? [that is a question not a statement]

 

[junior1]

Not upset. Just making sure that people who write what appear to be empty BS claims support them. You don't have similar standards. Sorry you make such illogical choices.

ha ha...I'm still waiting for proof fraud didn't happen. You seemed so sure

 

[demlion]

ha ha...I'm still waiting for proof fraud didn't happen. You seemed so sure

? I never even said that. I said the opposite,in fact.

 

[junior1]

? I never even said that. I said the opposite,in fact.

ok, you can have the last word

 

[demlion]

ok, you can have the last word

Lol

 

[bdgan]

so what was the Medicaid expansion due too? ACA required people actually buy insurance. when no one purchased any they raised the threshold for Medicaid so people could get health care without paying?? [that is a question not a statement]

I'm too lazy to look it up right now so I'm going to work off the top of my head. The ACA expanded coverage under Medicaid to those with incomes up to 138% of the poverty level. The federal government gave an enhanced federal match rate to states that agreed to adopt this. I think the feds paid 100% for two years then gradually cut it back to 90% but even that is higher than the roughly 80% contribution that existed prior to the ACA.

Here's what the Kaiser Family Foundation has to say about cost reduction possibilities:

This analysis examines the potential impacts on states and Medicaid enrollees of one prominent proposal, which would eliminate the 90% federal match rate for the Affordable Care Act (ACA) expansion, which currently covers over 20 million people. Key takeaways include:

• This analysis explores the impact of eliminating the ACA expansion match rate under two scenarios. The first assumes that states maintain Medicaid expansion coverage and pick up new expansion costs, resulting in a decrease of 10% (or $626 billion) in federal Medicaid spending and an increase of 17% (or $626 billion) in state Medicaid spending across all states over a 10-year period.
• The second scenario assumes that states drop the ACA Medicaid expansion in response to the elimination of the 90% federal match rate. This would result in a 25% (or $1.7 trillion) decrease in federal Medicaid spending and a 5% (or $186 billion) decrease in state Medicaid spending across all states over a 10-year period. This would also cut total Medicaid spending by nearly one-fifth (or $1.9 trillion), and nearly a quarter of all Medicaid enrollees (20 million people) would lose coverage.

Of course the administration would be accused of killing people if they were to adopt either of these proposals. Once a program is added it remains pretty much forever. Simple things like NPR and PBS were created at a time when there were limited outlets for that type of content. IMO they only continue to receive government funding because they have received government funding for a long time.

 

[roswelllion]

I'm too lazy to look it up right now so I'm going to work off the top of my head. The ACA expanded coverage under Medicaid to those with incomes up to 138% of the poverty level. The federal government gave an enhanced federal match rate to states that agreed to adopt this. I think the feds paid 100% for two years then gradually cut it back to 90% but even that is higher than the roughly 80% contribution that existed prior to the ACA.

Here's what the Kaiser Family Foundation has to say about cost reduction possibilities:

This analysis examines the potential impacts on states and Medicaid enrollees of one prominent proposal, which would eliminate the 90% federal match rate for the Affordable Care Act (ACA) expansion, which currently covers over 20 million people. Key takeaways include:

• This analysis explores the impact of eliminating the ACA expansion match rate under two scenarios. The first assumes that states maintain Medicaid expansion coverage and pick up new expansion costs, resulting in a decrease of 10% (or $626 billion) in federal Medicaid spending and an increase of 17% (or $626 billion) in state Medicaid spending across all states over a 10-year period.
• The second scenario assumes that states drop the ACA Medicaid expansion in response to the elimination of the 90% federal match rate. This would result in a 25% (or $1.7 trillion) decrease in federal Medicaid spending and a 5% (or $186 billion) decrease in state Medicaid spending across all states over a 10-year period. This would also cut total Medicaid spending by nearly one-fifth (or $1.9 trillion), and nearly a quarter of all Medicaid enrollees (20 million people) would lose coverage.

Of course the administration would be accused of killing people if they were to adopt either of these proposals. Once a program is added it remains pretty much forever. Simple things like NPR and PBS were created at a time when there were limited outlets for that type of content. IMO they only continue to receive government funding because they have received government funding for a long time.

Thanks, good reply. I would like to know why ACA was a failure? Having said all that
some combination of
.work requirements [state level]
. maybe reduce from 138% to 120%
. shift at least half back to the states

we could save a lot of money. I believe I have also heard Medicaid has a much higher in relative terms
level of fraud than SS or Medicare.

 

[bdroc]

Thanks, good reply. I would like to know why ACA was a failure? Having said all that
some combination of
.work requirements [state level]
. maybe reduce from 138% to 120%
. shift at least half back to the states

we could save a lot of money. I believe I have also heard Medicaid has a much higher in relative terms
level of fraud than SS or Medicare.

I would be surprised if the administration tried to unwind any part of the ACA. I wouldn't be surprised if they imposed work requirements and did audits of improper payments.

 

[demlion]

Thanks, good reply. I would like to know why ACA was a failure? Having said all that
some combination of
.work requirements [state level]
. maybe reduce from 138% to 120%
. shift at least half back to the states

we could save a lot of money. I believe I have also heard Medicaid has a much higher in relative terms
level of fraud than SS or Medicare.

If you shift half the cost of medicaid back to the states, rural hospitals in many states WILL CLOSE. MANY nursing homes will close, too. In small, rural states like WV, the $ is just not there. Hospitals in WV get ~75% of their revenues from Medicaid, Medicare and health insurance for state employees. Serious cuts or shifts to the already-broke state, mean no money, no survival.

Add to that cuts to NIH research funding and even the WVU Hospital System, the biggest in WV, will shrivel.

 

[bdroc]

Thanks, good reply. I would like to know why ACA was a failure? Having said all that
some combination of
.work requirements [state level]
. maybe reduce from 138% to 120%
. shift at least half back to the states

we could save a lot of money. I believe I have also heard Medicaid has a much higher in relative terms
level of fraud than SS or Medicare.

Wrt the ACA being a failure....

It covered a lot more people via Medicaid. That's a plus but we were told it wouldn't add a dime to the deficit which wasn't remotely true. One of the ways to pay for it was by lowering reimbursement rates but that didn't happen as congress passed a "doc fix". The tax on Cadillac plans never went through because government/ union employees would have revolted. That tax on medical devices and insurance companies didn't happen because politicians realized that the cost would be passed on to consumers. I think the only tax that stuck was an additional 3.8% on investment income for those earning over $250k.

If you think getting more people insured regardless of cost you would consider ACA a success. If you are more concerned about an additional $150b+ added to the deficit you would consider it a failure.

 

[joeaubie21]

The back and forth about fraud
... 🤪.

 

[roswelllion]

Wrt the ACA being a failure....

It covered a lot more people via Medicaid. That's a plus but we were told it wouldn't add a dime to the deficit which wasn't remotely true. One of the ways to pay for it was by lowering reimbursement rates but that didn't happen as congress passed a "doc fix". The tax on Cadillac plans never went through because government/ union employees would have revolted. That tax on medical devices and insurance companies didn't happen because politicians realized that the cost would be passed on to consumers. I think the only tax that stuck was an additional 3.8% on investment income for those earning over $250k.

If you think getting more people insured regardless of cost you would consider ACA a success. If you are more concerned about an additional $150b+ added to the deficit you would consider it a failure.

Well the part i considered a failure was it was too expensive apparently for the lower middle class. it sounds like they had to increase medicaid dollar eligibility by 38% in order to get people covered. In addition to ACA Medicaid went up 160% in just 4 years. since this was in the Covid/post Covid timefram i think there was probably a lot of fraud in those numbers.

 

[roswelllion]

If you shift half the cost of medicaid back to the states, rural hospitals in many states WILL CLOSE. MANY nursing homes will close, too. In small, rural states like WV, the $ is just not there. Hospitals in WV get ~75% of their revenues from Medicaid, Medicare and health insurance for state employees. Serious cuts or shifts to the already-broke state, mean no money, no survival.

Add to that cuts to NIH research funding and even the WVU Hospital System, the biggest in WV, will shrivel.

You make reasonable point however this change just occured during the Covid/post Covid era. somehow they were surviving 4 years ago. Part of my frustration is IMO we were not underspending in the Federal govt 4 years ago. So we spent an extra 2 trillion in the Covid year. AND WE NEVER WENT BACK. That new level became the new baseline. IMO that is just not explainable using logic. I hate to say it but we also killed off a 600,000 people in their heaviest medical expense years.

 

[demlion]

You make reasonable point however this change just occured during the Covid/post Covid era. somehow they were surviving 4 years ago. Part of my frustration is IMO we were not underspending in the Federal govt 4 years ago. So we spent an extra 2 trillion in the Covid year. AND WE NEVER WENT BACK. That new level became the new baseline. IMO that is just not explainable using logic. I hate to say it but we also killed off a 600,000 people in their heaviest medical expense years.

If you had done ir in 2018, WV hospitals would have gone bankrupt THEN, too. Book it.

 

[roswelllion]

If you had done ir in 2018, WV hospitals would have gone bankrupt THEN, too. Book it.

I wasn't suggesting cuts to a 2018 level. I was suggesting some cuts to today's levels but still ABOVE 2018 levels. forgetting how you divide up the cuts you could take 2018 total dollars and increase the them 10% per year and still s a couple hundred billion.
BTW last time I looked, state budgets were much more solvent than our $37 trillion debt and increasing $4 billion EACH DAY federal budget.

 

[demlion]

I wasn't suggesting cuts to a 2018 level. I was suggesting some cuts to today's levels but still ABOVE 2018 levels. forgetting how you divide up the cuts you could take 2018 total dollars and increase the them 10% per year and still s a couple hundred billion.
BTW last time I looked, state budgets were much more solvent than our $37 trillion debt and increasing $4 billion EACH DAY federal budget.

Our current Prez holds the ALLTIME 4 year deficit record @~$8.2 trillion added in just 4 years. I am sure this isn't some kabuki theatre bullshit.🤣

 

[roswelllion]

Our current Prez holds the ALLTIME 4 year deficit record @~$8.2 trillion added in just 4 years. I am sure this isn't some kabuki theatre bullshit.🤣

Well that comment was worthless and had nothing to do the subject but that is pretty common when a D tries to defend spending. Any analysis of budgets that include Covid spending are silly. You likely still think Covid came from nature, vaccines prevent you from getting or spreading the virus an St Fauci wasn't back door funding gain of function research. You did however make my point. Trump had a large. deficit in 2019 and yet in the following 4 years of "autopen Joe" we eliminated 600,000 old people from the health care roles, Covid ended, and we still increased spending by 53%.So in your words we took the largest spender in history and increased it by 53%. Uh yep nothing to see hear

 

[87 Penn St8]

Supply and demand.

A long time ago, Dave Winfield was asked if he felt bad making so much money. He said something to the effect of "I used to. Then I realized someone had enough money to pay it."

Here is another example. The Dolan family bought the CLE Indians 25 years ago for $325m who bought it from Dick Jacobs. Jacobs bought it for $40m. So he made a cool $285m and only had to pay capital gains taxes. Dolan's $325m investment is now worth an estimated $1.35B. So his 25 year investment has netted him over $1B. (and again, tax free until he sells them and even then at cap gains taxes). In the meantime, Allen will be paying 37% in Fed tax, just under 11% on state tax. So close to 50% of his income will go to the govt.

Plus some cities where he plays, like Philly, have a wage tax that may apply. I know that's why the Flyers and 76ers practice in NJ

Not sure how it effects guys like LeBron...but if they can get away with it why not?

Like a Hotel Tax. Target non residents....

 

[demlion]

Well that comment was worthless and had nothing to do the subject but that is pretty common when a D tries to defend spending. Any analysis of budgets that include Covid spending are silly. You likely still think Covid came from nature, vaccines prevent you from getting or spreading the virus an St Fauci wasn't back door funding gain of function research. You did however make my point. Trump had a large. deficit in 2019 and yet in the following 4 years of "autopen Joe" we eliminated 600,000 old people from the health care roles, Covid ended, and we still increased spending by 53%.So in your words we took the largest spender in history and increased it by 53%. Uh yep nothing to see hear

Don't give me your sloppy "fiscal conservative" BS. Y'ALL set the RECORD. Stop bluffing.

 

[step.eng69]

? I never even said that. I said the opposite, in fact.

"ha ha...I'm still waiting for proof fraud didn't happen. You seemed so sure"...Junior1

Demlion, nice to see you again,
if fraud and intentional abuse is being claimed - why aren't there Federal Warrants for arrest issued?
Actually, the only fraud discovered to this date is Ellen DeGeneres....
Given the remarks on this thread, I'm assuming the majority of members don't have parents that will need Medicaid
assistance to help pay for their stay in nursing homes, good for those that can afford the high cost.
On average, nursing homes cost $7,900 to $9,000 per month

Mentioned in this video is the "LAR" system using data points for detection of objects, the LAR System is very useful in the surveying.

 

[demlion]

"ha ha...I'm still waiting for proof fraud didn't happen. You seemed so sure"...Junior1

Demlion, nice to see you again,
if fraud and intentional abuse is being claimed - why aren't there Federal Warrants for arrest issued?
Actually, the only fraud discovered to this date is Ellen DeGeneres....
Given the remarks on this thread, I'm assuming the majority of members don't have parents that will need Medicaid
assistance to help pay for their stay in nursing homes, good for those that can afford the high cost.
On average, nursing homes cost $7,900 to $9,000 per month

Mentioned in this video is the "LAR" system using data points for detection of objects, the LAR System is very useful in the surveying.

What the comfortable Nimrods do not get is there are LOTS of nursing homes where the vast majority are doing the Medicaid thing, with some folks paying $8-9k per month out of pocket. But if the Medicaid cuts hit too hard the NH will CLOSE, and then Mr. or Mrs. "Outta Pocket" are gonna have to go to JUNIOR'S HOUSE. They are not Medicaid recipients themselves, but Medicaid is keeping the doors open. Junior needs to decide if that is what he wants.

 

[PSU4U]

being a little passive aggressive, or just aggressive. If you're taking a position that there's no fraud from government payouts, again, IMO you're on the wrong side of this debate. Just look back at previous federal budgets and how many of them have been put together through "savings" from eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse. And, this issue is not just a democrat one. Both parties have been guilty of inadequate management of the nations resources. As I've posted many times, the federal government is so big and it's management programs are so ineffective, they simply cannot manage these multi $$billion programs.

You're trying the lawyerly approach of give me the names case numbers etc....The other side of that is prove it didn't happen. Sure, there was no fraud in all the money handed out during the COVID expenditures, every dollar in Medicaid/medicare is spent correctly, or one you might like, there's no fraud in the $$billions paid out by the defense department.

It's kind of fascinating to watch one party taking such a hard line against fighting fraud. I would think that democrats would be better served by having people work on DOGE so 1. they'd be on the inside and 2. they could help take credit for the savings.

At last survey, 80% of those surveyed like what DOGE is doing in saving money.

Watch out for those strawman arguments coming your way. They love those strawman arguments when they know they're full of shit.

 

[demlion]

Watch out for those strawman arguments coming your way. They love those strawman arguments when they know they're full of shit.

My parents have passed. But I am pretty sure that is not true for everyone, and it ain'tt gonna feel like a straw man if your mom's NH closes.

 

[PurposePitch]

Well that comment was worthless and had nothing to do the subject but that is pretty common when a D tries to defend spending. Any analysis of budgets that include Covid spending are silly. You likely still think Covid came from nature, vaccines prevent you from getting or spreading the virus an St Fauci wasn't back door funding gain of function research. You did however make my point. Trump had a large. deficit in 2019 and yet in the following 4 years of "autopen Joe" we eliminated 600,000 old people from the health care roles, Covid ended, and we still increased spending by 53%.So in your words we took the largest spender in history and increased it by 53%. Uh yep nothing to see hear

You're a Gold Member ... take your political stuff to the political board.

 

[PurposePitch]

You're trying the lawyerly approach of give me the names case numbers etc....The other side of that is prove it didn't happen.

That's not how logic works. I know you guys abandoned logic a long time ago, but some of us still live in reality.

We don't just randomly throw out unfounded alternate realities and then say "oh yeah, sure I have nothing to back this, but prove it isn't true! You can't?! Well, then, I'll keep spreading my lies and/or wild-arse unfounded assertions!"

We used to be able to contain this craziness ... but with the internet, the crazy spreads like a virus.

 

[step.eng69]

My parents have passed. But I am pretty sure that is not true for everyone, and it ain'tt gonna feel like a straw man if your mom's NH closes.

My father was captured on the Island of Bataan during WWll, survived the 'March', survived Camp O'Donnell, survived the Hell Ships in the transfer to Japan & survived the beatings at Fukuoka Camp 17.
Fortunately, my father was well taken care of in the Wilkes-Barre VA until he died following six (6) years in the VA nursing home. My mother would not live with us, we tried many times over the years...first stage of dementia was developing. Kar & I were able to keep my mother in Assistant Care Home, $35,000 per yr.; then to the nursing home because of dementia. My mother's nursing home was paid via my father's service disability pay and the money she had in savings, after the money was gone, Medicaid kicked in.

My father -in-Law (Pop) stayed at home during his last three years, being taken care by my wife, sister-in-law (Margy), my D-I-L (Kelly) and my son (Tom). Pop had a day nurse a few times a week to take his vitals, change the oxygen, and other necessary medical needs. my mother -in -Law is 96 yrs old, the family will probably do the same for her to keep her out of the nursing home. We are very fortunate that our family lives on the same 30 acres in Lehman Twp.

ADBC-Memorial Society - About Us

Bataan Death March - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Back to Bataan: .........Credit: David Venditta of the Morning Call david.venditta@mcall.com​

From his bedroom at night, little Rick would hear his father in the kitchen directly below, shouting in Japanese, barking sharp commands. He'd been out drinking again.
It was the early 1960s, and Joe Szczepanski was collecting a military pension and working at a shoe factory. After his shift, he'd stop at a bar just a block from the house.
He'd get home late, sit by himself and rant for an hour or more.
Rick, who was about 7, would have to get up for school the next morning, and the racket kept him awake. He knew it had something to do with POW camps during
World War II. His father had told him about beheadings.
''My dad was a little bit screwed up,'' Rick Szczepanski now says. ''He was suffering from post-traumatic stress, but nobody knew what that was at the time.
You never knew when he was going to fly off the handle. He didn't physically take it out on us; mentally, though, he did. It was hard for the whole family.''

A one-time amateur boxer from the coal country around Wilkes-Barre, Joe had stayed in the service after the war and would go on to another career, teaching Spanish
at Bethlehem Catholic High School. But he had a drinking problem and a hair-trigger temper that made life difficult for his wife and three sons.
As Rick got older, he found it easier to spend less time with his father than to put up with his combativeness. He knew some lurid details of his dad's existence as a
captive American soldier in the Far East. But he wouldn't gain a fuller understanding until after his father died in 2005.

Inspiration came from summarizing the 86-year-old's life for the obituary. The task launched a journey to his father's past that continues to this day. It is a quest that has
unmasked much of Joe Szczepanski's ordeal during the Bataan Death March and 31/2 years as a prisoner of the Japanese. And it has brought Rick Szczepanski of East Allen Township face to face with an Army veteran who was with Joe in two POW camps, including one in Japan where they slaved in a coal mine and saw the atomic bombing
of Nagasaki.

''Dad never really got over what took place in the prison camps, until in the mid-1980s he finally let go. It didn't bother him anymore,'' said Rick, who is 54 and owns
a mechanical contracting business. A sampling of the abuse his father suffered at Japanese hands appears in his 1947 testimony for the War Crimes Office investigating atrocities.
After his father died, Rick wrote to the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis and was surprised to get a copy of the transcript. He hadn't known about the war crimes deposition. His father had never talked about it.
In his testimony, Joe Szczepanski told a counterintelligence agent about an incident that took place at Fukuoka Camp 17 on Japan's Kyushu island, where he was held
from mid-1943 until the war ended. A Japanese overseer in the mine ''reported me for not working hard enough. He and two guards beat me with their fists into unconsciousness, revived me with water and knocked me out a second time. They knocked out five teeth in the beating. They gave me the alternative of being shot or accepting the beating.''

A long walk in the sun

Joseph L. Szczepanski was born in 1918 to Ukrainian immigrants in Plymouth Township, Luzerne County. His parents, who would also have three daughters, were fairly well off. While his father worked in the coal mines, his mother made bootleg plum brandy. They built a nice home in Nanticoke, along with a rental house in the rear.
When Joe was 16, he lied about his age and joined the National Guard. The next year, he graduated from Nanticoke High School and worked in a silk mill. In 1938, now with the regular Army, he went to Hawaii and tangled with other soldiers in the boxing ring while serving in a chemical warfare battalion.
The decision that led him to Asia was his transfer to the Army Air Corps. He arrived at Luzon island, the Philippines, in mid-1940 and became a clerk at the Nichols Field air base outside Manila.

Two weeks after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, Japanese troops swarmed Luzon's northern coast. They gradually overpowered American and Filipino forces, trapping them on the mountainous Bataan peninsula. Joe was there, helping to supply the soldiers in the fight.

With hunger, disease and hopelessness weighing on the Allies, their commander surrendered on April 9, 1942. The next day, Sgt. Szczepanski was taken prisoner on Bataan's southern tip. He was among 75,000 Allied captives the Japanese would start moving north to the captured Camp O'Donnell -- 85 miles, all but two dozen of them on foot.
This was the Bataan Death March.
Along the way, hundreds of Americans and thousands of Filipinos died from dehydration, exhaustion and exposure to the fierce sun and heat, and from being run over, shot, bayoneted, beheaded, beaten and buried alive.

Digging their own graves

Joe was transferred later in the spring of 1942 from Camp O'Donnell to Cabanatuan Camp 1, also on Luzon.

''For the first four months, we were fed nothing but a very small quantity of gourd soup and rice for the three meals each day,'' he told the war crimes investigator.
''We worked from [7 a.m. until 5 p.m.] six days a week on road construction and miscellaneous construction. Â… Treatment was brutal for the slightest offense.

''I personally saw five American soldiers shot to death for bribing the guard and leaving the camp for procuring food from a nearby Filipino village. These soldiers were given
the choice of [being shot or] standing for three days tied to a post neck-high, with their heads resting back on the posts in the face of the tropical sun.
''On the third day one of the boys made a break to escape, and all of the boys were forced to dig their own graves and were shot down in the graves while they were singing
'God Bless America.'''

Another time, Joe testified, three officers were caught trying to escape. ''They were deprived of any clothing and were compelled to stand out in the cold weather,
during which time they were whipped, stoned and spat upon by Japanese soldiers.
''This lasted for about three days, following which the officers became delirious and were marched down the road and shot to death.''

Testimony from Szczepanski and other survivors helped convict some 3,000 Japanese of war crimes. Many defendants got prison terms; more than 900 were executed.

Nagasaki's blazing sky

After more than a year at Cabanatuan, Joe and several hundred other POWs deemed fit to work were crowded into the hold of an old cargo vessel and taken to Kyushu,
where they were held at Fukuoka Camp 17 and forced to labor for a coal mining company. Joe would remain there for the rest of the war.

Many years later, Joe told his son about his struggle to survive despite disease -- he had beriberi, caused by vitamin B1 deficiency -- cruel guards and desperate hunger.
He talked about the lengths a man had to go to stay alive.
''I remember my dad saying he used to wait till one of his friends was just about dead and drag him out to get his food, then take him back and have his food because his friend
was on the way out. ''Another thing is, he crushed his own foot in order to get out of the coal mines for several months. He crushed it with a big piece of coal.''

Beginning in late 1944, Joe's parents, sisters and others back home sent postcards to him while he was at Fukuoka Camp 17. Joe wrote the name Charlie Balaza
on the back of one. He wrote the names of other fellow captives on cards, as well.

Rick scoured POW Web sites and found Charlie's name. He lives near Trenton, N.J., and had published a memoir, ''Life as an American Prisoner of War of the Japanese,''
but it doesn't mention Joe.

Rick and his wife, Gloria, visited the 86-year-old in October 2007 to find out why his name was on the card. Rick was amazed at what he discovered.
Charlie served in an Army coast artillery unit on Corregidor, an island fortress that guarded the mouth of Manila Bay. Its troops weren't captured until May 1942,
after the Bataan Death March. But Joe and Charlie were both held at Cabanatuan Camp 1, and they were among 500 fit POWs who were carried in a ship's cargo hold
to Kyushu in July 1943, then marched to Fukuoka Camp 17.
Charlie said he was with Joe outside the camp's barracks at 11:02 a.m. on Aug. 9, 1945. He remembered seeing a high-flying B-29 bomber and a billowing mushroom cloud.
Joe saw the smoke and fire, too. ''I viewed the sky blazing over Nagasaki after the atomic bomb was dropped, although it was about 40 miles away,''
he wrote to the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader when he got home.

Rick was thrilled to meet someone who was with his father at that historic moment.

'Imagine, two POWs, both seeing the Nagasaki bomb cloud -- my father telling me when I was no older than 13 that he was with another POW when this happened.
Then out of pure luck, meeting this other POW.''

At peace with himself'

Joe walked out of Camp 17 on Sept. 12, 1945, almost a month after the Japanese surrender.
He returned to the States on a transport ship operated by the US Coast Guard, the USS Admiral C.F. Hughes. (not to be confused with the USS Hughes).

Joe spent 18 months recuperating at Valley Forge General Hospital. One weekend in February 1946 when he was home, he met Catherine Wardzel at a Wilkes-Barre
dance hall. They were married four months later.

Remaining in the military, Joe specialized in aerial photography with the Air Force and was posted across the country and in Canada and Britain. He was a technical sergeant
with more than two decades of service when he retired in 1959. But he wasn't through working. He studied Spanish at King's College in Wilkes-Barre and taught at Becahi
for 10 years. Then in 1985, in his mid 60s, he was hospitalized with emphysema and almost died. Rick said it was a turning point for his dad.
''He was a smoker, so he quit smoking, cold turkey, and he quit drinking. He made a comment at the time: 'That's it, I'm not going to let the past run my life anymore.'
He just let go. At that point, I'd say, he was at peace with himself.''

Late in 1999, after Joe had grown frail, Rick got him into the Veterans Affairs nursing facility in Wilkes-Barre. Five-and-a-half years later, Joe Szczepanski died of lung cancer.

A path still to follow

In his mission to grasp what his father endured, Rick has read about 20 books on Bataan and prisoners of the Japanese.
He belongs to an e-mail group that disseminates POW information, and he has spent countless hours exploring Web sites related to his dad's service and captivity.
He has attended national conventions of the American Defenders of Bataan and Corregidor, a veterans group his father belonged to but wasn't active in.
And this year, Rick will be among the descendants who keep the organization going.

In addition, he and Gloria are considering a trip to the Philippines next year to follow his father's path.
''I understand now why he was the way he was. I can visualize many things today. But once you understand, you start wanting more information. I am still searching.''

 

[PurposePitch]

not necessarily. An option is just that, you have the right to buy x number of shares and a set price after vesting. Once you exercise the option, the income is taxed as ordinary income. If you don't exercise the option there is no tax, of course there would be no income either.

False. If the option is an ISO, as most executive comp is, you generally have no taxable event (subject to AMT) at time of exercise, and eventual sale/disposition typically triggers LT capital gain tax treatment.

 

[Obliviax]

False. It the option is an ISO, as most executive comp is, you generally have no taxable event (subject to AMT) at time of exercise, and eventual sale/disposition typically triggers LT capital gain tax treatment.

It is taxed at the time of liquidation of that option. In other words, when you sell those options, they are then taxed in that taxable year.

 

[PurposePitch]

It is taxed at the time of liquidation of that option. In other words, when you sell those options, they are then taxed in that taxable year.

Selling options (which you can’t do, if it’s exec level ISO) is entirely different than exercising an option, and liquidation has nothing to do with anything. Stop talking. We’re not discussing lil Tommy Flanagan buying in the money puts on Tesla on the open market.

 

[bdgan]

Well that comment was worthless and had nothing to do the subject but that is pretty common when a D tries to defend spending. Any analysis of budgets that include Covid spending are silly. You likely still think Covid came from nature, vaccines prevent you from getting or spreading the virus an St Fauci wasn't back door funding gain of function research. You did however make my point. Trump had a large. deficit in 2019 and yet in the following 4 years of "autopen Joe" we eliminated 600,000 old people from the health care roles, Covid ended, and we still increased spending by 53%.So in your words we took the largest spender in history and increased it by 53%. Uh yep nothing to see hear

It wasn't just Covid SPENDING. There was a dramatic reduction in REVENUES due to the shutdowns.

Regardless, dem's response veered off topic of objectively discussing the current debt/deficit.

 

[roswelllion]

Watch out for those strawman arguments coming your way. They love those strawman arguments when they know they're full of shit.

Well to you two altruistic individuals who would much prefer i pay for your parents in nursing homes rather than you pay i'll just say this. Some of us greedy throw granny of the cliff folks would RATHER take care of our parents at home [as it has been done for 200 years] than send them to a primarily medicaid base NH.

Had you bought insurance when you were in your 40's and 50's this would be more affordable. It wasn't like we didn't know it was coming. But then again Uncle will pay for it.

Finally it has been noted way before DOGE, the GAO and IG's have identified almost a half trillion dollars last year. [try google it might help]. to your point improper payments are not necessarily fraud. Let's find out.

I haven't heard either of you explaining why Medicaid went up 166% in 5 years. I don't think that many folks moved out into the country to inhabit these struggling NH's.

Nothing more hypocritical than a couple old guys more concerned with their situation than their grandchildrens financial health. $37 trillion and growing $4 billion a day. eh not my problem my kids/grandkids can figure it out

 

[bdgan]

"ha ha...I'm still waiting for proof fraud didn't happen. You seemed so sure"...Junior1

Demlion, nice to see you again,
if fraud and intentional abuse is being claimed - why aren't there Federal Warrants for arrest issued?
Actually, the only fraud discovered to this date is Ellen DeGeneres....
Given the remarks on this thread, I'm assuming the majority of members don't have parents that will need Medicaid
assistance to help pay for their stay in nursing homes, good for those that can afford the high cost.
On average, nursing homes cost $7,900 to $9,000 per month

Mentioned in this video is the "LAR" system using data points for detection of objects, the LAR System is very useful in the surveying.

My opinion on improper payments:

• I think there's definitely some Medicare/Medicaid/SS fraud going on. The same with voter fraud. The question is how material it is. If DOGE finds 10 people collecting illegally they'll play it up in the media but it won't generate a lot of savings. If they find thousands that would be a huge embarrassment. Regardless there is no reason for 200 year old people to be on the rolls. That needs to be cleaned up.
• I think the bigger issue is things like people qualifying for benefits by not reporting income. Or not making repayments of illegally obtained benefits because they already spent the money. Or illegals using a stolen SS number. I don't think the GAO is making things up when they estimate $300b per year of improper payments.

My opinion on spending cuts:

• Somebody gets hurt with each spending cut but we (future generations) get hurt when we run up too much debt. Layoff one person and you'll hear how we're hurting children or we're putting granny out of the street.
• I saw a woman on TV who worked for an agency that provided food for low income children. She was bemoaning the loss of funding and how many kids were going to go hungry. The implication was that this was due to DOGE but I looked it up. The additional funding she was talking about came from the American Rescue Plan which was intended to help people recover from the pandemic. That money was just now expiring. We have a system where every program is seen as a horrific cut if we don't make it permanent and keep it growing.

My opinion about nursing homes:

• They're obscenely expensive. Regulations are intended to guarantee a certain quality of care but they also add to the cost. I don't know the right mix.
• My parents cared for my grandmother when she could no longer care for herself. My wife's parents did the same thing with her grandmothers. I understand that's more difficult with 2 income families but the more we pay for these things the more difficult it is to be fiscally responsible. There are even programs these days that pay people for staying home to care for a parent. I'm sure that gets abused.
• A lot of people complain that they lose their life savings before Medicaid will pay for assisted living. I understand that sucks but I think the government should go a step further and make you sell your house. If you don't pay for your own care you're demanding that somebody else does. That's not fair either.

I think we should do as much as we can afford to help people who are struggling due to no fault of their own. I don't think we should do more than we can afford. I guess I'm just a hard arse.

 

[bdgan]

I haven't heard either of you explaining why Medicaid went up 166% in 5 years. I don't think that many folks moved out into the country to inhabit these struggling NH's.

It's a combination people getting older and (well meaning?) politicians expanding benefits.