is this the run game we are missing

[sluggo72]

https://www.nfl.com/share/10103061-7033-0000-0087-2311ee11bd8f


we run this play but block it differently, notice the Eagles basically have 2 double teams at the POA, and then somebody come off on the LBers.

just asking

go to about the 25 sec mark, and watch the endzone shot.

 

[JR4PSU]

https://www.nfl.com/share/10103061-7033-0000-0087-2311ee11bd8f


we run this play but block it differently, notice the Eagles basically have 2 double teams at the POA, and then somebody come off on the LBers.

just asking

Notice in all of those runs, they are committed to run plays. No read option stuff that slows the handoff. The RB hits the point of attack immediately.

 

[sluggo72]

Notice in all of those runs, they are committed to run plays. No read option stuff that slows the handoff. The RB hits the point of attack immediately.

that's not the difference I see. Look at the TD pass to Jeffery, he sticks the ball in and pulls it, and throws a pass (not on this clip) The difference I see, is they are trying to get 2 double teams at the hole. We may not have been able to single block Kevin Givens in the spring but I guarantee you, if we double team him, we would block him. ML talked about having to win our 1 on 1 blocks, IMO that puts our guys in a bad position at the POA.
Our passing protection is really not that bad, I think we are doing things in the run game, that our guys cant do. I am not sure an OL can do.

 

[leftymarlins]

It's a combination of Franklin / Moorhead. You have a once in a generation running back...who can't gain yards. Either Barkley is significantly overrated or the scheme is just bad.

 

[Cpeplion]

that's not the difference I see. Look at the TD pass to Jeffery, he sticks the ball in and pulls it, and throws a pass (not on this clip) The difference I see, is they are trying to get 2 double teams at the hole. We may not have been able to single block Kevin Givens in the spring but I guarantee you, if we double team him, we would block him. ML talked about having to win our 1 on 1 blocks, IMO that puts our guys in a bad position at the POA.
Our passing protection is really not that bad, I think we are doing things in the run game, that our guys cant do. I am not sure an OL can do.

I have noticed this as well, the pass blocking is pretty good. It's not like when they were getting overrun by a whopping 2 Temple rushers. Someone is missing something and its more than the OL. Although one thing that I have noticed a lot is that Gonzalez is really soft and slow and this is really exposed when he pulls.

 

[KC-KS-Lion]

It's a combination of Franklin / Moorhead. You have a once in a generation running back...who can't gain yards. Either Barkley is significantly overrated or the scheme is just bad.

As much as Barkley can stop and start, he is at a statistical disadvantage starting deep in the backfield after the defense has penetration and momentum.

 

[sluggo72]

I have noticed this as well, the pass blocking is pretty good. It's not like when they were getting overrun by a whopping 2 Temple rushers. Someone is missing something and its more than the OL. Although one thing that I have noticed a lot is that Gonzalez is really soft and slow and this is really exposed when he pulls.

I agree with that, so why have him pull? you can run the offense we have without any of the OL having to pull. You can run the offense without the TE coming back in to trap.

 

[Cpeplion]

I agree with that, so why have him pull? you can run the offense we have without any of the OL having to pull. You can run the offense without the TE coming back in to trap.

No Clue, you can see that every time he pulls he never makes it to the spot he's supposed to be in and it blows the play up. So, why keep doing it? or why not let a guy like say, Menet, play. I'd be shocked if Menet is worse.

There comes a point where you have to say, "This is just not working vs. better teams." and a change has to be made. It's getting to the point where there shouldn't be excuses to why the Oline is this bad.

 

[sluggo72]

No Clue, you can see that every time he pulls he never makes it to the spot he's supposed to be in and it blows the play up. So, why keep doing it? or why not let a guy like say, Menet, play. I'd be shocked if Menet is worse.

IMO that's not the solution. watch this play, 74 is 1 on 1, the C is coming around on a short pull, 74 is beaten inside and the DT blows up the play. If instead the OG and the OC combo blocked the DT , as seen in the Eagles video above, then PSU would have a play, and at least it wouldnt be a loss, especially backed up against their GL.

 

[leftymarlins]

As much as Barkley can stop and start, he is at a statistical disadvantage starting deep in the backfield after the defense has penetration and momentum.

Then the team should be more physical at the point of attack. Its 4 years and we haven't had a good run game. Something needs to change somewhere. I am trending towards our OL coach

 

[JR4PSU]

that's not the difference I see. Look at the TD pass to Jeffery, he sticks the ball in and pulls it, and throws a pass (not on this clip) The difference I see, is they are trying to get 2 double teams at the hole. We may not have been able to single block Kevin Givens in the spring but I guarantee you, if we double team him, we would block him. ML talked about having to win our 1 on 1 blocks, IMO that puts our guys in a bad position at the POA.
Our passing protection is really not that bad, I think we are doing things in the run game, that our guys cant do. I am not sure an OL can do.

I think the double teaming on blocks in the run game shown in that clip is that the OL knows exactly where the hole is supposed to be and the blocking scheme is set up to create that hole. In our running game I don't think the blocking scheme is set up with a specified hole in mind, but the hole is left up to the runner based on reading the defense. That is one of the reasons our running game seems to take forever to transpire at the handoff point. It is all about the read, which takes an extra second or so to take place. With a committed to run, you don't have the extra second to worry about. The RB hits the designated hole that is specifically blocked for, in many cases with a double team to push a specific defender out of the hole.

 

[rudedude]

I think the double teaming on blocks in the run game shown in that clip is that the OL knows exactly where the hole is supposed to be and the blocking scheme is set up to create that hole. In our running game I don't think the blocking scheme is set up with a specified hole in mind, but the hole is left up to the runner based on reading the defense. That is one of the reasons our running game seems to take forever to transpire at the handoff point. It is all about the read, which takes an extra second or so to take place. With a committed to run, you don't have the extra second to worry about. The RB hits the designated hole that is specifically blocked for, in many cases with a double team to push a specific defender out of the hole.

By Jove I think you’ve got it! Makes sense to me!!

 

[masterbaker65]

We cannot run block. In the play you linked, watch the Oline move defenders. We’re not even close to blocking that well.

 

[sluggo72]

We cannot run block. In the play you linked, watch the Oline move defenders. We’re not even close to blocking that well.

and look again, they have 2 to block 1, we try to man up all the time, and as a result, you are correct, we miss people and get too many negatives.

 

[TrevYoung]

To block like the eagles do, the tight end would have to stay in to block. I can't picture Gesicki being able to do that consistently.

 

[getmyjive11]

You are also comparing pros to college kids. Offensive schemes are less varied in college for a reason. Our OL simply is not good right now, particularly at OT.

 

[sluggo72]

You are also comparing pros to college kids. Offensive schemes are less varied in college for a reason. Our OL simply is not good right now, particularly at OT.

jive- really? High School run the Eagles blocking scheme all the time, it isn't that hard.

 

[getmyjive11]

jive- really? High School run the Eagles blocking scheme all the time, it isn't that hard.

Not the multiple schemes that they run.

 

[canuckhal]

On radio tonight, some analyst mentioned that the OL may have trouble with RPO as the play is behind them and they don't know if it is pass or run. They cannot explode down field for fear risking a penalty if it is a pass play. Since this is only JoMo's second year and the OL is young, I wonder if they are just not experienced enough yet with the offense. Guess, we will find out next year.

 

[getmyjive11]

On radio tonight, some analyst mentioned that the OL may have trouble with RPO as they play is behind them and they don't know if it is pass or run. They cannot explode down field for fear risking a penalty if it is a pass play. Since this only JoMo's second year and the OL is young, I wonder if they are just not experienced enough yet with the offense. Guess, we will find out next year.

Just note that in the Eagles plays in the video above, only one run was from a RPO (at the 1:12 mark).

 

[sluggo72]

Just note that in the Eagles plays in the video above, only one run was from a RPO (at the 1:12 mark).

What ? Do u even know what an RPO is?

 

[WyomingLion]

What ? Do u even know what an RPO is?

Look at the second play, the linebackers are 5 yards off the ball....different than what we sometimes face. The next play they run left to where they are off as well. I think you may be on to something but not exactly what we see with more in the box.oops didn’t mean to attach to your comment!

 

[Electric Lion]

I think the double teaming on blocks in the run game shown in that clip is that the OL knows exactly where the hole is supposed to be and the blocking scheme is set up to create that hole. In our running game I don't think the blocking scheme is set up with a specified hole in mind, but the hole is left up to the runner based on reading the defense. That is one of the reasons our running game seems to take forever to transpire at the handoff point. It is all about the read, which takes an extra second or so to take place. With a committed to run, you don't have the extra second to worry about. The RB hits the designated hole that is specifically blocked for, in many cases with a double team to push a specific defender out of the hole.

All true. But one thing no one is talking about is the other D. The read option can only work if the OL can block down on everyone else (not often the case) AND you isolate the DE so he has to choose. Other D's send the DE immediately to Barkley with no regard to the QB keeper. They do this for 2 reasons. One, they figure that the best RB in college will get the ball at least half the time. What, we're NEVER going to hand him the ball?? So by guessing right half the time they completely nullify Barkley and get a TFL that can kill a drive just like a sack. Two, they know that the other half of the time if McSorley does keep it, he's not fast or strong enough to hurt them like Barkley. Trace can run, no doubt, but not like Barrett or Mayfield. So if Trace gets a plus 7 on a carry, all that does is cancel out Barkley's minus 7. THAT is why our running game is crap. The book is out. Other D's have committed to Barkley. You can do that in a read option because the DE has a free release. In an I formation, you can key on a back all you want but you can't just say to one guy "hey, you go right to the RB", because he'll have to fight through at least one block. It's no guarantee.

 

[getmyjive11]

What ? Do u even know what an RPO is?

Yes. Look at the WRs. Those are all straight runs, the WRs are blocking immediately. Only play with a pass option was at 1:12 where the receiver was covered.

 

[djr4rebs]

Would not be shocked if Thorpe and Menet are starters next year at the guard spots. I truly wish one of them projected as a LT because Bates at LG has been our best OL player over the course of the past two years.

Gonzalez is confusing. He's probably our strongest lineman in years, and would be much better suited just firing off at the snap. Guy has NFL strength already, but I don't think pulling is his forte. Maybe it's youth. Or scheme.

 

[sluggo72]

Yes. Look at the WRs. Those are all straight runs, the WRs are blocking immediately. Only play with a pass option was at 1:12 where the receiver was covered.

so? why is that even relevant? they could have run any or or all of those plays as RPO's, it doesn't effect how they block the play.

 

[junior1]

It's a combination of Franklin / Moorhead. You have a once in a generation running back...who can't gain yards. Either Barkley is significantly overrated or the scheme is just bad.

agree 100% But I'm convinced scheme is bad. It's not something that can't be tweaked, and I believe franklin is trying to do that. I think he realizes he has a problem - ala the wildcat variation, but if I were him given that we now move into a weaker part of the schedule, I'd make some significant adjustments just to see if they'd work.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Either Barkley is significantly overrated or the scheme is just bad.

I don’t think it’s a bad scheme, but maybe it’s effectiveness is limited. Maybe it’s meant for a good dual threat QB, and receivers, but not meant for traditionally strong Running game? How many yards rushing did the starting RB have at Fordum? Maybe it’s meant to maximize inferior talent?

 

[getmyjive11]

so? why is that even relevant? they could have run any or or all of those plays as RPO's, it doesn't effect how they block the play.

It is relavent because the OL is drive blocking more on those plays because there is no pass option. You cannot do the same with an RPO because you will likely end up with a lineman downfield which will be a penalty if you pass.

 

[getmyjive11]

I don’t think it’s a bad scheme, but maybe it’s effectiveness is limited. Maybe it’s meant for a good dual threat QB, and receivers, but not meant for traditionally strong Running game? How many yards rushing did the starting RB have at Fordum? Maybe it’s meant to maximize inferior talent?

Their RB led the nation in yards per game last year and finished his career with over 5200 yards. It’s not the scheme.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Their RB led the nation in yards per game last year and finished his career with over 5200 yards. It’s not the scheme.

Then its the jimmy and joes...

 

[Bricktowner]

We are starting 2 sophomores and a freshman. Prior to Bates going down it was 3 and 1.

 

[PSUcup1]

Their RB led the nation in yards per game last year and finished his career with over 5200 yards. It’s not the scheme.

But Moorhead wasnt the Fordham coach last year....

he had good numbers under JoMo, they got even better the year JoMo left

and they are down this year, doesnt look like the team is very good

 

[PSUcup1]

Then its the jimmy and joes...

its a combo, but the line is not nearly as a bad as the results are saying IMO

this system, as currently employed, is not playing to their strengths and is not maximizing Barkley IMO

again, i dont hate the system at all, but absolutely feel it needs some tweaking

 

[getmyjive11]

Then its the jimmy and joes...

Correct. Much like Barkley, that Forham kid was viewed as the best offensive player in FCS football. His OL did their job.

 

[getmyjive11]

But Moorhead wasnt the Fordham coach last year....

he had good numbers under JoMo, they got even better the year JoMo left

and they are down this year, doesnt look like the team is very good

Yeah, but it was the same offense.

 

[WDLion]

Their RB led the nation in yards per game last year and finished his career with over 5200 yards. It’s not the scheme.

It's not the scheme if the players are able to execute it. If the player are unable to execute, it's the scheme.

 

[getmyjive11]

We are starting 2 sophomores and a freshman. Prior to Bates going down it was 3 and 1.

People need to read this again. It is extremely hard to have a good OL when 3/5 of it is FR or SO. Especially when one of the upperclassmen simply is not good (Wright).

Better days are ahead for this unit. They had to infuse it with talent and now that talent needs to grow up. It will happen.

 

[PSUcup1]

Yeah, but it was the same offense.

with some possible tweaks .... ? i dont know and neither do you

 

[PSUcup1]

People need to read this again. It is extremely hard to have a good OL when 3/5 of it is FR or SO. Especially when one of the upperclassmen simply is not good (Wright).

Better days are ahead for this unit. They had to infuse it with talent and now that talent needs to grow up. It will happen.

and the other SR (Mahon) is playing in the wrong position