Journeymen Collegiate Classic, Nov. 12 Bethlehem Freedom High
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Steen might be worse than Ryder, slightly, when comparing careers, but I would expect that Steen would handle the version of Ryder that last stepped on the mat in 2021.
Gallagher had a very good, not elite in terms of the kind of making an immediate impact, HS career, but he's a true frosh who's going to sit behind Miller this year. And Robbie had nothing for him at all after the first minute and a half.
Yes, there's time, but as a said before, unless he was seriously ill today (and he wasn't), he's just got waaay to much ground to make up, if he's even capable of making it up given his situation, to be competitive in the B1G.
We may be just punting 125 this year. Again. Hard to tell if Davis can be competitive either based off today. But his domination of Steen at least hinted that he could be the kind of guy that qualifies at least, and maybe with development he could win a couple of matches.
No, you stated that mat time right now is more important than than a fall in a meaningless match in a meaningless tournament. I was merely saying that Van Ness did not appear to wrestle that way today. As in meaningless matches in a meaningless tournament. The way Shane wrestled today, I don't think he acted like they were meaningless. You disagree with that or are you just wanting to start some shyte?
It would be nice just to not be in an automatic 4-6 point hole 1 weight into duals
I think he is saying that you know what you have with Van Ness. MM had some resistance in his first match and mat wrestling experience is good for him so coaches cam see any weaknesses that need to be cleaned up.
This is all valid. I'll offer a counterpoint:
On exactly this day in 2018, after a 3 year layoff with two surgeries, in his second match of the year... Anthony Cassar got the absolute piss ridden out of him in a 11-8 loss to Garret Hoffman that wasn't that close. Sometimes these things take mat time.
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Barraclough pitched a shutout. Not bad. Could start many places, much like Negron.
At least Robbie gives us something to talk about…sure, he’s not in midseason form, which shouldn’t surprise anyone because he hasn’t wrestled in two years and it’s not midseason.
At least Robbie gives us something to talk about…sure, he’s not in midseason form, which shouldn’t surprise anyone because he hasn’t wrestled in two years and it’s not midseason.
I add this post from another thread:
“Robbie Howard on getting healthy..
"Around mid summer, I started to be able to wrestle again, just being able to even like roll around a little bit. It's just huge for me to be healthy mentally."
I read that and immediately lowered my expectations - at least for the first half of this season. He needs more time
Might be a winner.
I ordered Detroit style pizza after I read it, it was so good.
Same as with holding the back points, really.
Yes, if the top guy gets control again, the E1 and the TD2 (FINE TD3) get awarded. If the reversal happens the E1 gets upgraded to R2.
A wrap-up of what I saw today:
125
I've posted about it too much already. Maybe I am being too hard on Howard - if this was a freshman, results like this wouldn't mean much. And maybe it's just a confidence thing - he was clearly kind of lost body language-wise after the Ryder match and once Gallagher got a TD on him. Who knows, maybe he can get that mojo back. But today was a really rough performance, no doubt about it.
Davis - I posted about him above when I was standing by him and Steen before their match. He looks like he's a HS soph in his warmups. But when they got out of the warmups it was different - he was put together and probably a little bigger than Steen. And no doubt, he dominated Steen. He lived on Steen's legs and even rode him fairly well for a true frosh. Putting that performance together with the fact he pinned Steen in wrestle-offs, he seems like he's got the talent to immediately be a top 25 type kid. After that it's another big step, so we'll see.
133
Didn't see any of the PSU matches. Watched Crookham beat McGonigle in OT and then the Vito match.
141
Beau looked great. Some people on here were a little concerned after the Cornella match, but not me. Stylistically that's not a great matchup, Cornella is a very slick counter wrestler and in fact, almost converted in the first off a mediocre BB attack. After the first, Cornella basically planted himself halfway to the boundary inviting BB to attack and he didn't take the bait. At no time did I ever think Cornella was going to get a TD, he's not a good scrambler. If he can slick you with a quick pass by or reattack when you're moving forward that's what he's got. Really great match for BB against Hines who had a very good day beating Composto and Evans.
Evans is tough. No fluke he beat Composto and he was this close with the Hines match. He missed his chance at a 2nd TD in the 2nd period and it came back to bite him in the third. There are a lot of guys in that 3rd or so tier at 141 like Composto and Hines and Cornella, and Evans belongs right with them.
149
Shayne was a beast, competition was subpar. Three pins. The kid is a pinner, always looking for it.
Connor Pierce looked pretty good, I can see why they like him, he is active and a battler, but the Fernandez kid from Cornell was clearly more talented than him - pump the breaks on his upside.
157
Levi is a beast. Had another takedown against Brignola that was waved off. Just so strong and solid in all 3 positions. 157 is his for as long as he wants it. I watched all of Shapiro's matches and he's not at Levi's level yet, maybe he'll get there, maybe not.
Shapiro was impressive and tough. As posted above, I (and everybody else matside) heard an audible pop in his 2nd match and he was clearly hurt. Saw him limping later in the hall with an ice pack wrapped around it. Then he goes back out there and techs Swisher in his third match. Very tough kid.
165
A ton to like about Mesenbrink. Disregard the first match score, he was in complete control of that match, got the first 4 TDs fairly easily, gave up an extra escape because he got banged in the nose and took injury time. Looked like he could have tech'd him. Then the strange sequence happened early in the third where he went for a reversal and had Ruiz leg up in the air and burned like 30 seconds only to get no points as they went out of bounds - stupid should have just let go of his leg when he had it, reversal was not worth anything more than an escape then anyway. When they restarted and he escaped, he got a little sloppy - likely trying to get the tech back - and Ruiz got in very deep and Mesenbrink rolled right into a cradle. Wouldn't be surprised if Mesenbrink puts in on him by 15 next time. And Ruiz is pretty good. Not sure who's singlet Mesenbrink was wearing, but it was like 3 sizes too big and the it was flapping on him around the thighs like the kid on Win-Win = pretty funny.
Bearclaw was bearclaw. He's not flashy but he didn't give up a single point in the tourney. He's a top 20 kid. Beat Matt Lee 4-0 in their pool final.
174
Carter - what do you want me to say? He's great, nobody in the NCAA is beating him.
184
Truax - first match against Rowley got a little sloppy going for the major at the end and gave up a TD. Rowley is built like a brick sh*t house and tough to score on. Tuned up little Valencia in the 2nd match - Valencia looked much bigger than him ala a Valencia, but Truax is really quick. He seems a little reliant on that left low-swing single, but maybe that's something he's working on. Anyway, he looked good, but he didn't look like a national champion to me - at least not this early. He also doesn't look like the biggest 84 out there, which is funny when you know he took 4th at 97 last year.
Barr was in the upper gym so I only got to see him once. Wrestled a kid from LIU who looked like the Swede from Heartbreak Ridge, but still got the major. He's like a dog on a bone when he gets to your leg, really strong, but still really raw. Great that he has this RS season, they've got a lot to work with in him.
197
Brooks - what do you want me to say? He's great. He is going to tune everybody up this year at 197. Would love to see Iowa trot AF out there. Brooks may not major him, but he's going to dominate him. Brooks and Hidlay will be in the finals this year and Aaron's a couple of TDs better than Hidlay and everybody else. Moving up from 84 is the way to go - the more you move away from the middle, the easier it gets.
285
Kerk looked OK. Taylor and Trephan are top 15 type guys and Kerk didn't look quite as good as he did late last year against them. Early.
Venue was great with 8 mats in one gym, you could see all of the matches at once if you sat up high, or you could go matside if you wanted, which was crowded. Journeyman did a great job of limiting it to 600 - that was the perfect maximum attendance. Event ran straight through and we were out by around 3 pm. And they had dogs like you can only get in the Lehigh Valley outside in the concession tent.
125
I've posted about it too much already. Maybe I am being too hard on Howard - if this was a freshman, results like this wouldn't mean much. And maybe it's just a confidence thing - he was clearly kind of lost body language-wise after the Ryder match and once Gallagher got a TD on him. Who knows, maybe he can get that mojo back. But today was a really rough performance, no doubt about it.
Davis - I posted about him above when I was standing by him and Steen before their match. He looks like he's a HS soph in his warmups. But when they got out of the warmups it was different - he was put together and probably a little bigger than Steen. And no doubt, he dominated Steen. He lived on Steen's legs and even rode him fairly well for a true frosh. Putting that performance together with the fact he pinned Steen in wrestle-offs, he seems like he's got the talent to immediately be a top 25 type kid. After that it's another big step, so we'll see.
133
Didn't see any of the PSU matches. Watched Crookham beat McGonigle in OT and then the Vito match.
141
Beau looked great. Some people on here were a little concerned after the Cornella match, but not me. Stylistically that's not a great matchup, Cornella is a very slick counter wrestler and in fact, almost converted in the first off a mediocre BB attack. After the first, Cornella basically planted himself halfway to the boundary inviting BB to attack and he didn't take the bait. At no time did I ever think Cornella was going to get a TD, he's not a good scrambler. If he can slick you with a quick pass by or reattack when you're moving forward that's what he's got. Really great match for BB against Hines who had a very good day beating Composto and Evans.
Evans is tough. No fluke he beat Composto and he was this close with the Hines match. He missed his chance at a 2nd TD in the 2nd period and it came back to bite him in the third. There are a lot of guys in that 3rd or so tier at 141 like Composto and Hines and Cornella, and Evans belongs right with them.
149
Shayne was a beast, competition was subpar. Three pins. The kid is a pinner, always looking for it.
Connor Pierce looked pretty good, I can see why they like him, he is active and a battler, but the Fernandez kid from Cornell was clearly more talented than him - pump the breaks on his upside.
157
Levi is a beast. Had another takedown against Brignola that was waved off. Just so strong and solid in all 3 positions. 157 is his for as long as he wants it. I watched all of Shapiro's matches and he's not at Levi's level yet, maybe he'll get there, maybe not.
Shapiro was impressive and tough. As posted above, I (and everybody else matside) heard an audible pop in his 2nd match and he was clearly hurt. Saw him limping later in the hall with an ice pack wrapped around it. Then he goes back out there and techs Swisher in his third match. Very tough kid.
165
A ton to like about Mesenbrink. Disregard the first match score, he was in complete control of that match, got the first 4 TDs fairly easily, gave up an extra escape because he got banged in the nose and took injury time. Looked like he could have tech'd him. Then the strange sequence happened early in the third where he went for a reversal and had Ruiz leg up in the air and burned like 30 seconds only to get no points as they went out of bounds - stupid should have just let go of his leg when he had it, reversal was not worth anything more than an escape then anyway. When they restarted and he escaped, he got a little sloppy - likely trying to get the tech back - and Ruiz got in very deep and Mesenbrink rolled right into a cradle. Wouldn't be surprised if Mesenbrink puts in on him by 15 next time. And Ruiz is pretty good. Not sure who's singlet Mesenbrink was wearing, but it was like 3 sizes too big and the it was flapping on him around the thighs like the kid on Win-Win = pretty funny.
Bearclaw was bearclaw. He's not flashy but he didn't give up a single point in the tourney. He's a top 20 kid. Beat Matt Lee 4-0 in their pool final.
174
Carter - what do you want me to say? He's great, nobody in the NCAA is beating him.
184
Truax - first match against Rowley got a little sloppy going for the major at the end and gave up a TD. Rowley is built like a brick sh*t house and tough to score on. Tuned up little Valencia in the 2nd match - Valencia looked much bigger than him ala a Valencia, but Truax is really quick. He seems a little reliant on that left low-swing single, but maybe that's something he's working on. Anyway, he looked good, but he didn't look like a national champion to me - at least not this early. He also doesn't look like the biggest 84 out there, which is funny when you know he took 4th at 97 last year.
Barr was in the upper gym so I only got to see him once. Wrestled a kid from LIU who looked like the Swede from Heartbreak Ridge, but still got the major. He's like a dog on a bone when he gets to your leg, really strong, but still really raw. Great that he has this RS season, they've got a lot to work with in him.
197
Brooks - what do you want me to say? He's great. He is going to tune everybody up this year at 197. Would love to see Iowa trot AF out there. Brooks may not major him, but he's going to dominate him. Brooks and Hidlay will be in the finals this year and Aaron's a couple of TDs better than Hidlay and everybody else. Moving up from 84 is the way to go - the more you move away from the middle, the easier it gets.
285
Kerk looked OK. Taylor and Trephan are top 15 type guys and Kerk didn't look quite as good as he did late last year against them. Early.
Venue was great with 8 mats in one gym, you could see all of the matches at once if you sat up high, or you could go matside if you wanted, which was crowded. Journeyman did a great job of limiting it to 600 - that was the perfect maximum attendance. Event ran straight through and we were out by around 3 pm. And they had dogs like you can only get in the Lehigh Valley outside in the concession tent.
He actually looked good in his first match, it could have been gas tank issues in the other two.
MM with 53 points scored today. TB with 0 given up. My goodness gracious livestream (not on Flo, please) wrestleoffs.Results from go psu.com
Penn State Wrestling Rolls at Journeymen Collegiate Classic
The Penn State Nittany Lion wrestling team (0-0, 0-0 B1G), under the direction of veteran head coach Cael Sanderson, opened up the 2023-24 season at the round-robin portion of the Journeymen Collegiate Classic in Bethlehem, Pa. Twenty Nittany Lions at the event, which took place at Freedom High...gopsusports.com
125: #20 Robert Howard, So.
Rd. 1: Ashton Jackson, Purdue – WBF (4:45)
Rd. 2: Dylan Ryder, Hofstra – L, 3-13 maj. dec.
Rd. 3: Max Gallagher, Penn – L, 5-8 dec.
125: Gary Steen, So.
Rd. 1: Noah Tonsor, Army West Point – W, 16-1 (TF; 3:18)
Rd. 2: Bronson Garber, Bloomsburg – W, 17-2 (TF; 6:15)
Rd. 3: Braeden Davis, Penn State – L, 3-11 maj. dec.
125: Braeden Davis, Fr.
Rd. 1: Ariel Waldman, LIU – W, 15-0 (TF; 2:15)
Rd. 2: Eric Howe, F&M – W, 20-5 (TF; 4:00)
Rd. 3: Gary Steen, Penn State – W, 11-3 maj. dec.
133: Baylor Shunk, Sr.
Rd. 1: Jake Staud, Army West Point – L, 1-3 dec.
Rd. 2: Jameson Garcia, Harvard – L, 8-16 maj. dec.
Rd. 3: Daniel Uhorchuck, Army West Point – L, 7-9 dec.
133: Sean Wang, So.
Rd. 1: Daniel Miranda, Arizona State – LBF (0:55)
Rd. 2: Conor Collins, Army West Point – L, 1-8 dec.
Rd. 3: Colt Schrader, Army West Point – W, 16-7 maj. dec.
141: #2 Beau Bartlett, Sr.
Rd. 1: Dante Frinzi, Harvard – WBF (1:29)
Rd. 2: #13 Vince Cornella, Cornell – W, 4-1 (sv)
Rd. 3: #12 Malyke Hines, Lehigh – W, 15-3 maj. dec.
141: David Evans, Jr.
Rd. 1: #6 CJ Composto, Penn – W, 4-1 (sv)
Rd. 2: #12 Malyke Hines, Lehigh – L, 4-6 dec.
Rd. 3: #13 Vince Cornella, Cornell – W, med. forf.
149: #2 Shayne Van Ness, So.
Rd. 1: Eddie Hummel, Army West Point – WBF (2:06)
Rd. 2: Cade Balestrini, Bloomsburg – WBF (2:58)
Rd. 3: Kelvin Griffin, Lehigh – WBF (1:30)
149: Connor Pierce, Fr.
Rd. 1: Owen Reinsel, Lehigh – W, 13-3 maj. dec.
Rd. 2: Ethan Fernandez, Cornell – L, 2-8 dec.
Rd. 3: Cole Handlovic, Cornell – W, 8-1 dec.
157: #1 Levi Haines, So.
Rd. 1: Luca Frinzi, Lehigh – W, 18-0 (TF; 4:35)
Rd. 2: Cael Berg, Harvard – WBF (4:22)
Rd. 3: #27 Max Brignola, Lehigh – W, 10-2 maj. dec.
165: Mitchell Mesenbrink, Fr.
Rd. 1: Nicco Ruiz, Arizona State – W, 14-10 dec.
Rd. 2: Eric Shindel, Hofstra – W, 19-3 (TF; 4:34)
Rd. 3: Cooper Noehre, Purdue – W, 20-5 (TF; 5:37)
165: Matt Lee, Jr.
Rd. 1: James Johnston, LIU – W, 16-5 maj. dec.
Rd. 2: Nicholas Franzen, Sacred Heart – WBF (4:19)
Rd. 3: Terrell Barraclough, Penn State – L, 0-4 dec.
165: Terrell Barraclough, Sr.
Rd. 1: Kaya Sement, Penn – W, 9-0 maj. dec.
Rd. 2: Cole Spencer, Penn – W, 5-0 dec.
Rd. 3: Matt Lee, Penn State – W, 4-0 dec.
174: #1 Carter Starocci, Sr.
Rd. 1: Max Wilner, Arizona State – W, med. forf.
Rd. 2: Luke Rada, Harvard – WBF (2:15)
Rd. 3: #14 Nick Incontrera, Penn – W, 21-5 (TF; 6:52)
174: Aurelius Dunbar, Jr.
Rd. 1: Benny Baker, Cornell – L, 0-8 maj. dec.
Rd. 2: Lance Urbas, Penn – W, 7-3 dec.
Rd. 3: Blake Bahna, LIU – L, 1-4 (sv) dec.
184: #2 Bernie Truax, Gr.
Rd. 1: #33 James Rowley, Purdue – W, 7-4 dec.
Rd. 2: Cael Valencia, Arizona State – W, 17-4 maj. dec.
Rd. 3: James Conway, F&M – W, 13-4 maj. dec.
184: Donovon Ball, Sr.
Rd. 1: Caden Rogers, Lehigh – L, 0-2 dec.
Rd. 2: Brock Delsignore, North Carolina St. – W, inj. def. (4:34)
Rd. 3: Tony Negron, Arizona State – L, 1-5 dec.
184: Josh Barr, Fr.
Rd. 1: Jake Stefanowicz, Penn – W, 24-9 (TF; 7:00)
Rd. 2: Anthony D'Alesio, LIU – W, 13-5 maj. dec.
Rd. 3: Jack Wilt, Lehigh – W, 14-4 maj. dec.
197: #1 Aaron Brooks, Sr.
Rd. 1: Jacob Meissner, Arizona State – WBF (4:43)
Rd. 2: #33 John Crawford, F&M – W, 19-3 (TF; 6:11)
Rd. 3: Martin Cosgrove, Penn – WBF (2:33)
285: #1 Greg Kerkvliet, Sr.
Rd. 1: Tristan Ruhlman, Purdue – W, 17-5 (TF; 6:44)
Rd. 2: #19 Nathan Taylor, Lehigh – W, 6-1 dec.
Rd. 3: #8 Owen Trephan, North Carolina St. – W, 7-2 dec.
I’m not gonna bury Howard at all. It was his first time back on the mat in an extremely long time.
That said, maybe, just maybe, there’s more to Cael loading up on 125 guys than just concerns about Howard staying healthy?
That said, maybe, just maybe, there’s more to Cael loading up on 125 guys than just concerns about Howard staying healthy?
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Bulletin board material for Gabe Arnold 🤓
So you’re telling me Robbie is wrestling 157 next year?
I think he was his own style. We just see bits and pieces in his style that remind of us of past wrestlers because Haines is a stud.
I can't seem to remember how that eventually turned out for Cassar - remind me? Pretty sure he had a decent year but the details escape me...
Bo once said he was mostly a counter wrestler as a freshman. Nobody respects freshmen, so they attacked him. After that, opponents stopped attacking, so he had to develop more offense.
Beau is seeing similar progression. He's showing more offense while remaining patient when appropriate. It's a championship recipe in March.
Hmm, I think he will get better but he might not be a national qualifier. Davis will have trouble with guys who are stonger then him.
Levi is hands down the best in the Cael Era at converting takedowns directly into turks. Frank and Zain were great at turks, but primarily did it after establishing top control.
Zain once directly turked off a shot, but that was against Micah Jordan so does it really count?
Davis needs a chance to start, and i think he will be given it. especially w/ TR FR being afforded 5 duals.
125 is historically 'meh' this year. I'm confident Davis can go with 95% of them.
125 is historically 'meh' this year. I'm confident Davis can go with 95% of them.
Here's another thing to consider, Gary Steen looked good today. He didn't wrestle top of the line opponents but he previously had 0 bonus point wins, today he recorded 2 tech falls before getting majored by Davis. I never would have guessed he could major anyone last year let alone tech fall. He seems to be doing well overall and Braeden is on another level than him clearly.
I'm still riding with Robbie and predicting AA this season if he remains healthy. If not, all bets are off of course. I think we will be concerned with his results at least through January. Might even get uglier than what we saw today. I believe Cael and staff are going to ramp him up very very slowly to protect him from reinjury and it'll be frustrating for us fans but come March we will be telling ourselves that we should have trusted the process...
pretty much everything said here ^^^
i think opposite of
i think opposite of
I don't know man, AA from where he was today is a chasm. Like going from a district finalist to a Super 32 finalist.
Somebody equated it to Cassar losing 11-8 to Hoffman, who is a top 20 guy. Robbie got chumped today by a journeyman who hasn't wrestled in 2 years and was last seen getting majored by Micah Roes, and a true freshman who is not starting at Penn. Long long long way to go.
No, not that Hoffman, the other one.
WrestleStat | Garrett Hoffman (Indiana) Profile
www.wrestlestat.com
It was an up and down year! Very solid record but lost the starting spot for a while. I think he got another spot start against O$U maybe?
Even so, not sure it’s a like for like comparison. Would love Howard to prove me wrong. But he’s got a looooooooooong road back.No, not that Hoffman, the other one.
WrestleStat | Garrett Hoffman (Indiana) Profile
For sure, this is just a data point, I agreed with everything in the initial post.
Wow, rusty, tentative (2 tears of rehab) and dropped 2 matches… so what. Love Davis et al but Howard needs a few chances before the judgement. All is leading till March!!!
I think it’s 1st game jitters post injury. It’s in his head. He can compete but hes not ready for prime time yet. I would keep sending him out and either break him or he’ll break through.
