Latest in Paterno v NCAA

[bdgan]

The NCAA is fukked. Big time. Major $$$ payments to plaintiffs looming. The Paterno legal team knows they have NCAA by the jewels.

No legal knowledge here but the Spanier suit seemed to suggest that it was ok to state false opinions but not ok to state false facts. I assume the same rules would apply to Paterno. Is the NCAA protected if they say they were expressing an opinion of Joe's guilt rather than a misstatement of fact about Joe?

 

[bjf1991]

No legal knowledge here but the Spanier suit seemed to suggest that it was ok to state false opinions but not ok to state false facts. I assume the same rules would apply to Paterno. Is the NCAA protected if they say they were expressing an opinion of Joe's guilt rather than a misstatement of fact about Joe?

1) NCAA says:
"We are going to investigate"

2) PSU BOT Scoundrels (and their masters/proxies) say:
"Oh dear me...please don't do that. We'll hire and pay for the absolute BEST, most impartial, completely thorough investigation in the history of ever. We'll even bring in the most reputable, distinguished, qualified investigator on the face of the Planet - His Honor Louis Freeh!"

3) Freeh and the Scoundrels come to the "reasonable conclusions" that:
"The entire Penn State community is a band of pedophile enablers......and those bastards Curley, Shultz, Spanier, and Paterno are the devil incarnate....and it was all because of "football""
........and then hand over the report to the NCAA

4) NCAA says:
"OK, thanks very much - - - - saved us a lot of time and money. Now you have a price to pay for your malfeasance"

5) Rodney and the Scoundrels say:
"Super-duper. Thanks so much. So.....we are all "good" now? Everything else is staying behind the curtain?"


And the NCAA is going to be on the hook?

Really?

Emmert and his band of empty-suit scumbags are horrendous people.....no doubt.

But "we" are suing the wrong people.

That is obvious to a blind man.

 

[PennSt8er]

I hear ya'.......and I would love to believe that the NCAA folks will be facing significant penalties (the INDIVIDUALS, more so than the ENTITY....because, quite frankly, laying out significant coin at the entity level does dick to effect the NCAA)


That said, aside from the emotional "hope":

The NCAA is going to be making "major $$$ payments" to who, exactly?
And for what "tort"?

Paterno Estate. Defamation.

 

[PennSt8er]

1) NCAA says:
"We are going to investigate"

2) PSU BOT Scoundrels (and their masters/proxies) say:
"Oh dear me...please don't do that. We'll hire and pay for the absolute BEST, most impartial, completely thorough investigation in the history of ever. We'll even bring in the most reputable, distinguished, qualified investigator on the face of the Planet - His Honor Louis Freeh!"

3) Freeh and the Scoundrels come to the "reasonable conclusions" that:
"The entire Penn State community is a band of pedophile enablers......and those bastards Curley, Shultz, Spanier, and Paterno are the devil incarnate....and it was all because of "football""
........and then hand over the report to the NCAA

4) NCAA says:
"OK, thanks very much - - - - saved us a lot of time and money. Now you have a price to pay for your malfeasance"

5) Rodney and the Scoundrels say:
"Super-duper. Thanks so much. So.....we are all "good" now? Everything else is staying behind the curtain?"


And the NCAA is going to be on the hook?

Really?

Emmert and his band of empty-suit scumbags are horrendous people.....no doubt.

But "we" are suing the wrong people.

That is obvious to a blind man.

^ On this, we agree. Paterno Estate should be naming Rodney and the BoT group as defendants. Absolutely.

 

[bjf1991]

Paterno Estate. Defamation.

TY

FWIW....I agree, and could see that happening (I don't think its a "slam-dunk".....but not out of the realm at all, IMO)

My disconcert, however, would be ...so what?

Don't get me wrong.......if I was the one being "defamed" (ie The Paternos, The other coaches, etc etc ) I would be VERY MUCH focused on, and pleased to receive such a ruling.
No doubt.

But I'm not them (and neither is anyone else here, TTBOMK.....or in the "Penn State Community").

So, in the larger, meaningful picture......who cares?
The NCAA sends a check to the plaintiffs? (who maybe do something very worthwhile with some of those funds....which would be nice)
Does that create even a blip on the radar? Even a ripple in the pond?
I don't think so
Does it effect the NCAA at all moving forward?.....maybe they give CBS the OK to run 2 more minutes of commercials per game in the NCAA BB Tourney - to make up for the lost $$$?


Meanwhile, the folks who are 1,000 times more responsible - and more culpable - than the limp-dicks at the NCAA....those folks just "keep on keepin' on".......

 

[Zenophile]

TY

FWIW....I agree, and could see that happening (I don't think its a "slam-dunk".....but not out of the realm at all, IMO)

My disconcert, however, would be ...so what?

Don't get me wrong.......if I was the one being "defamed" (ie The Paternos, The other coaches, etc etc ) I would be VERY MUCH focused on, and pleased to receive such a ruling.
No doubt.

But I'm not them (and neither is anyone else here, TTBOMK.....or in the "Penn State Community").

So, in the larger, meaningful picture......who cares?
The NCAA sends a check to the plaintiffs? (who maybe do something very worthwhile with some of those funds....which would be nice)
Does that create even a blip on the radar? Even a ripple in the pond?
I don't think so
Does it effect the NCAA at all moving forward?.....maybe they give CBS the OK to run 2 more minutes of commercials per game in the NCAA BB Tourney - to make up for the lost $$$?


Meanwhile, the folks who are 1,000 times more responsible - and more culpable - than the limp-dicks at the NCAA....those folks just "keep on keepin' on".......

What do you propose we do about it?

 

[bjf1991]

What do you propose we do about it?

The "Paterno et al" suit?

I don't think anyone here can do anything about it......it is what it is (kinda' like a discussion about the play-calling for the football team).
That wasn't even part of the discussion - - - - - TTBOMK, the discussion (at least my part in it) was focused on the likely outcomes of the suit, not anything about what "we" could or should do to influence those outcomes..
I've certainly never contended that anyone - outside of the parties involved - could do a damn thing about it.
(although it is probably counter-productive for all of "us" to expect things from that suit that just aren't in the realm.....as that enhances the risk of preventing folks from doing what they should in other venues.....but that doesn't really fit into the category of "what do you propose we do about it", per se)

There are a million things that responsible folks should be doing in those other venues......and I'm sure you're not asking about that stuff......we've been through all of that in more than enough detail - I think.

Kinda' what I was referring to in my concluding statement:

Meanwhile, the folks who are 1,000 times more responsible - and more culpable - than the limp-dicks at the NCAA....those folks just "keep on keepin' on".......

 

[91Joe95]

How so?

What are they going to be found Guilty of?

Not trying to be obtuse......I just don't get it.
What does it mean to "lose" this lawsuit.....how....why? What is the bad fallout?
I can lose a game of Monopoly to one of my kids......someone can even write a story for the CDT so that "everyone knows". So what? Would I - or anyone else - care?


How is the NCAA going to face a bad outcome? What is going to happen to them that would make anyone - including the folks at the NCAA - even care?
That's what I'm asking.

In most legal situations, the answer is obvious......I "lose" means something along the lines of:

I go to jail for X years
or
I pay a $X dollar fine.

What is the anticipated "bad outcome" for the NCAA? For what "tort"?

I'm not saying you (or anyone else) SHOULD be able to - or obligated to - answer that question.....but we have a lot of folks that seem to feel that there is some "fate accompli" that the "NCAA" (whatever the heck that means....A specific person? The nameless, faceless entity?) is going to pay dearly. But I have yet to hear/read/see exactly how that is going to happen.
Kinda' like the "Corman put the ball on the 1 yard line.....Paterno suit will score the TD" idiocy we saw so much of years ago.

In one of the preliminary hearings when the Paterno's had to show there was a financial impact, they through out the number of roughly a billion dollars their charities had raised over the years. No matter what the award is, it has the potential to be really big.

 

[Howie'81]

FWIW......there are 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (100 Octillion) stars in the Universe - - - - I just checked with Felli


That's a lot of stars to get all lined up.

And about 10^80 atoms. Look it up.

 

[BobPSU92]

I just want to kick the NCAA's ass right now.

Wick Sollers et al. have been retained for that exact purpose.

 

[Zenophile]

Wick Sollers et al. have been retained for that exact purpose.

 

[BobPSU92]

 

[bjf1991]

In one of the preliminary hearings when the Paterno's had to show there was a financial impact, they through out the number of roughly a billion dollars their charities had raised over the years. No matter what the award is, it has the potential to be really big.

Well.......a Billion Dollars would certainly make a statement.

 

[The Song Remains the Same]

Ask Ken Frazier. He said we were all responsible.

No do-overs....

 

[bjf1991]

Wick Sollers et al. have been retained for that exact purpose.

I have a high degree of confidence that Sollers et al will do (and have done) a VERY good job of pursuing their case. FWIW, I've commented to that effect several times throughout the suit........very impressive work - IMO

On the other hand, I don't see where their case does a whole lot for the broader issues - - - - not that it should (which is more or less my point).
This case has specific plaintiffs, defendants, and allegations......none of which - no matter how much we wish it were so - is particularly impactful wrt the ailments infesting PSU.

 

[bdgan]

I have a high degree of confidence that Sollers et al will do (and have done) a VERY good job of pursuing their case. FWIW, I've commented to that effect several times throughout the suit........very impressive work - IMO

On the other hand, I don't see where their case does a whole lot for the broader issues - - - - not that it should (which is more or less my point).
This case has specific plaintiffs, defendants, and allegations......none of which - no matter how much we wish it were so - is particularly impactful wrt the ailments infesting PSU.

Any settlement in Paterno's favor helps to change the narrative that the JS mess was a football culture problem. It would put the focus right back on the BOT & administration.

 

[bjf1991]

It would put the focus right back on the BOT & administration.

Would be nice

But, I think that is likely - at this point - a pipe dream

 

[bdgan]

Would be nice

But, I think that is likely - at this point - a pipe dream

I don't see any scenario where the majority of Americans give Paterno a pass on this. But any settlement in Paterno's favor would help the narrative. I don't care if it's $100,000 or $10,000,000.

On the other hand a judgement in favor of the NCAA pretty much puts a nail in Joe's coffin.

 

[bjf1991]

I don't see any scenario where the majority of Americans give Paterno a pass on this. But any settlement in Paterno's favor would help the narrative. I don't care if it's $100,000 or $10,000,000.

On the other hand a judgement in favor of the NCAA pretty much puts a nail in Joe's coffin.

If there is a ruling against the NCAA, the message that will be received by the seven people in the country that might even be paying attention is:
"The NCAA shouldn't have been involved - they overstepped"
That's a BEST case scenario

If there was any chance of "changing the narrative" (as some like to call it).........the names of Frazier, Surma, etc needed to be on the defendant list

Nothing any of us can do about that - - - - but it is what it is

 

[tgar]

From Emmert's 7/23/2012 Penn State press conference:

"We have informed Penn State of the findings, the adoption of the findings coming from the Freeh report, and also of our penalties. We have crafted this in the form of a consent decree which university has signed, as well as we have."​

This is most definitely not going to end well for the NCAA.

For those interested in the full PC transcript: http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1207/23/cnr.01.html

Every time I read this it just reminds that some were into it for the grandstanding opportunity. Others were gutless and each party was proud of their efforts. And everybody was so concerned about the children. Oh, and Freeh was there to collect the first check.

 

[NICNEM_PSU80]

Would be nice

But, I think that is likely - at this point - a pipe dream

If in the end you found out that the real scoundrel was Corbutt protecting his own a$$ and the elite ruling class' by Blaming Joe and the football program we will change the narrative because the villain will be replaced with a more heinous crime with a recognizable political name, Corbutt, with motive and opportunity.

 

[NC2017]

If in the end you found out that the real scoundrel was Corbutt protecting his own a$$ and the elite ruling class' by Blaming Joe and the football program we will change the narrative because the villain will be replaced with a more heinous crime with a recognizable political name, Corbutt, with motive and opportunity.

I no longer believe that the truth can change a media narrative. We've become a damage nation and thanks to recent revelations we can see a collusion between the media and our political elite that is both broad and deep. I wish I were wrong, I hope that I'm wrong but I very much doubt that I'm wrong.

 

[Mixolydian]

I no longer believe that the truth can change a media narrative. We've become a damage nation and thanks to recent revelations we can see a collusion between the media and our political elite that is both broad and deep. I wish I were wrong, I hope that I'm wrong but I very much doubt that I'm wrong.

You're not wrong.

 

[Zenophile]

IMHO there are still 2 great opportunities in front of us to potentially move the needle in the defamation cases by Paterno against the NCAA and Spanier against Freeh. It's my (albeit limited) understanding that should either receive a favorable ruling, the remedy would entail the defendant being required to correct the record in a manner equivalent in scale to the announcement of the harmful claims. To that end, a win in either case would be significant.

Feedback from the legal eagles is always appreciated (especially if any of my assumptions are incorrect).

 

[tgar]

IMHO there are still 2 great opportunities in front of us to potentially move the needle in the defamation cases by Paterno against the NCAA and Spanier against Freeh. It's my (albeit limited) understanding that should either receive a favorable ruling, the remedy would entail the defendant being required to correct the record in a manner equivalent in scale to the announcement of the harmful claims. To that end, a win in either case would be significant.

This is pretty much what I am holding out hope for. Well stated.

 

[Obliviax]

IMHO there are still 2 great opportunities in front of us to potentially move the needle in the defamation cases by Paterno against the NCAA and Spanier against Freeh. It's my (albeit limited) understanding that should either receive a favorable ruling, the remedy would entail the defendant being required to correct the record in a manner equivalent in scale to the announcement of the harmful claims. To that end, a win in either case would be significant.

Feedback from the legal eagles is always appreciated (especially if any of my assumptions are incorrect).

I agree and like this. The challenge with CS&S is that they are near career end. While their reputations being restored is ideal, they may just take a payoff to get the charges dropped, a huge financial settlement and at the cost of a strict confidentiality clause. I don't think Sue cares much about the money so she, and the family, are more likely to hold out for the remedy you describe. But I'll just be happy to see the truth out there, whatever that may be.

 

[bwifan]

I agree and like this. The challenge with CS&S is that they are near career end. While their reputations being restored is ideal, they may just take a payoff to get the charges dropped, a huge financial settlement and at the cost of a strict confidentiality clause. I don't think Sue cares much about the money so she, and the family, are more likely to hold out for the remedy you describe. But I'll just be happy to see the truth out there, whatever that may be.

I agree with your thoughts, the only thing I would add is that CSS may seek a public presser of some kind with a semi detailed statement. I don't think they would want to remain trashed and tarnished in the public eye completely. Yes they will want and get compensation but IMHO they are going to want some sort of statement and presser stating their innocence. Not sure if my thoughts are correct, as you say they are near the end of their careers and if enough money is thrown their way, may just take it and walk. But Spanier to me seems to want to let the public know he was innocent, and is going to want to be able to make some kind of statement confirming it.

 

[ChiTownLion]

 

[bjf1991]

If in the end you found out that the real scoundrel was Corbutt protecting his own a$$ and the elite ruling class' by Blaming Joe and the football program we will change the narrative because the villain will be replaced with a more heinous crime with a recognizable political name, Corbutt, with motive and opportunity.

I agree

Problem is.....you don't get there by suing the NCAA

You have to pursue the "truth", before you have any chance to "find" it.

 

[psu00]

View embedded media

ChiTown and Jimmy W always on the ball with regard to NCAA lies, double speak, and arrogance. It's both amazing and truly sad that the supposed leaders of the NCAA apparently continue to show a lack of integrity and honesty.

 

[Victor E. Bell]

Well if you magically wave your wand and call everything "unprecedented" you get to do whatever you want when nobody from the university in question calls you on your bullshit.

 

[Zenophile]

Well if you magically wave your wand and call everything "unprecedented" you get to do whatever you want when nobody from the university in question calls you on your bullshit.

The whole thing was kabuki theatre. They'd made a deal to surrender to the NCAA long before any of that business in July 2012.

 

[roswelllion]

I understand the Paterno's want a public repudiation of the Freeh report and some sort of apology. I seriously doubt any apology will ever be forthcoming, but an actual trial where people are forced [we hope] to tell the truth and a financial verdict will help tremendously. If the press says the NCAA was forced to pay the Paterno's [who then gave all proceeds to charity] that will in many people's minds change the narrative on who is guilty.

 

[bjf1991]

I understand the Paterno's want a public repudiation of the Freeh report and some sort of apology. I seriously doubt any apology will ever be forthcoming, but an actual trial where people are forced [we hope] to tell the truth and a financial verdict will help tremendously. If the press says the NCAA was forced to pay the Paterno's [who then gave all proceeds to charity] that will in many people's minds change the narrative on who is guilty.

I like that sentiment.......but I'd wager the mortgage money that no one's (relatively speaking) minds would change at all (whether one considers that important or not)

All it would convey to the public (or all the "public" would consume) is that a bunch of pretentious a-holes at the NCAA overstepped their bounds
Which does.....squat? (Anyone who even casually follows college sports already knows what a pack of bloviating hypocrites the NCAA is.......those who don't, they are no longer even tunes in - and haven't been for some time)

The entire "guilt/innocence" thing?
The NCAA is the wrong defendant, if one is trying to move THAT needle

 

[BobPSU92]

Well if you magically wave your wand and call everything "unprecedented" you get to do whatever you want when nobody from the university in question calls you on your bullshit.

It's amazing just how bold and obviously straying from the rulebook emmert was in 2012 with regards to Penn State. When asked if other schools might suffer a similar fate, emmert seriously said that he saw Penn State as a unique situation and never expected to deal with another school in the same way. In other words, "I don't expect to throw out the ncaa guidelines and arbitrarily impose any penalty in any way I see fit again. Penn State was treated differently because I felt like treating them differently."

 

[bwifan]

I like that sentiment.......but I'd wager the mortgage money that no one's (relatively speaking) minds would change at all (whether one considers that important or not)

All it would convey to the public (or all the "public" would consume) is that a bunch of pretentious a-holes at the NCAA overstepped their bounds
Which does.....squat? (Anyone who even casually follows college sports already knows what a pack of bloviating hypocrites the NCAA is.......those who don't, they are no longer even tunes in - and haven't been for some time)

The entire "guilt/innocence" thing?
The NCAA is the wrong defendant, if one is trying to move THAT needle

Well the people who don't follow the NCAA closely and it's overstepping it's bounds that bought hook line and sinker the media's narrative of Joe had to know headlines with all the talking heads swearing Joe had to know (while ignoring the 2nd mile) will force those people (and there are many of them) to stand back and see that this whole thing was bogus from the beginning. And that's a good thing... The BOT and 2nd Mile are 2 different animals...

 

[bjf1991]

Well the people who don't follow the NCAA closely and it's overstepping it's bounds that bought hook line and sinker the media's narrative of Joe had to know headlines with all the talking heads swearing Joe had to know (while ignoring the 2nd mile) will force those people (and there are many of them) to stand back and see that this whole thing was bogus from the beginning. And that's a good thing... The BOT and 2nd Mile are 2 different animals...

HIGHLY unlikely

 

[bwifan]

HIGHLY unlikely

Totally disagree...

 

[bjf1991]

Totally disagree...

I hope you're right

 

[bwifan]

I hope you're right

Me too...