Seriously…who the hell won?!?!
Lee/Bartlett
- Thread starter psujeepman1
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It was 10-8 beau. Nick walked him out and Beau let him. 1pt step out 1pt caution. That tied the score and on criteria, it went to the fact that Beau had a caution and he lost. horrible way to lose. The mat scorekeeper charged the caution to Nick, so it appeared that Beau won - incorrectly.
Every time I somebody get a point on a push out, I think stop wearing singlets and just put on the mawashi already.
BB looked great. Nick did not. Beau was the better wrestler in this match. Hope Nick takes advantage of the solid done him on this one.
Saw that Yianni found Beau in the stands and said he can get him a meeting with the team lawyer if he enters the portal.
In all seriousness, I am seeing a lot of people say that the caution & one was unmerited. But I think it was completely merited, and an illustration of the new-this-year rule:
My biggest beef with officiating in both styles is that fleeing the mat isn’t called enough. This change, and how the US officials called it this week, is a great step in the right direction (no guarantee about the uww crew). Just need to call diving to your knees on the edge fleeing now too. If Beau had just dug an underhook and tried to circle in that sequence, he wins 10-9. Crappy way to lose, but generally better than the ice skating phase of any close match, IMO.
My biggest beef with officiating in both styles is that fleeing the mat isn’t called enough. This change, and how the US officials called it this week, is a great step in the right direction (no guarantee about the uww crew). Just need to call diving to your knees on the edge fleeing now too. If Beau had just dug an underhook and tried to circle in that sequence, he wins 10-9. Crappy way to lose, but generally better than the ice skating phase of any close match, IMO.
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#CALLMOREFLEEING
*I haven't watched the match, yet... Just generally always in favor of a negative consequence for leaving the competitive surface.
I'm increasingly coming to learn that freestyle scoring is sort of like the "ranked choice voting" systems that people are pushing these days. If you can't explain, simply and precisely, what it takes to win, and it's going to take days to figure it out, maybe it's not that great to begin with.
It is a new rule, but I think the rules are pretty straightforward. More so than the new loophole in rideout criterea w/ UTB, anyway, and probably more straightforward than the proposed riding time change. Somebody made an error at the scorer's table. That definitely never happens in folkstyle, right?
I didn’t see the match. That said, my question concerns the spirit vs the letter of the law. Perhaps the ruling was technically correct, but do you honestly believe Beau was “fleeing the mat” in that instance?
Yes. If he’d been aware of the situation, there are many things he could have done to win the match.
Watched the match and he wasnt exactly “on his bike” (like he should have been) I dont think he intentionally left the mat.
Is it a caution and one if you were too start sprinting in a circle? Wouldnt this be more of a clock killer than intentionally stepping out, which KILLS the clock?
Edit.. judging by the way lee was acting as the clock wore down, he assumed he had lost.
Actually, that wasn’t what I asked. Surely, Beau could have been smarter about the rules in that situation. My question is do you think it was Beau’s intent to “flee the mat”, which the rule is in place to deter?
I think they call that fleeing the hold, and it's also a Caution & 1.
I will say--whenever new rules come out, it seems like USA Wrestling refs usually actually embrace them, and try to incorporate them as best they can into their calling of matches, whereas, UWW refs take a much more liberal "spirit of the rule" type of interpretation.
In Vegas, it looks like the refs conferred after every step out "Is it also fleeing?" and if a majority was yes, they'd issue the caution. AB (or should we call him American Yazdani?) cautioned a dude out yesterday doing just that.
Anyway, here's the exchange:
@NittanyChris I think Beau was trying to secure the win by not engaging in wrestling, and backed straight off the mat with little effort to stay in bounds and/or engage. I know we see it ALL THE TIME in sub-20 second close match situations, which is why I think they added the rule this year. It's not the way I wanted that match to end at all, but I think it was the correct call.
I do have my doubts about the "grounded" call when Beau looked to score his own step out point on the immediately preceding exchange, though. Nick was grounded in the circle, and then he got up as he went out.
For me, the bottom line of this match was how good it was! These dudes went at it, and Beau is clearly at a new level with his confidence. Medals for them all in the future!
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It was a pretty sad way to lose that match. Didn’t like the referee’s call there. Has to be a heartbreaker for the kid. I was actually rooting for a criteria win for Nick, just because he is all-in on freestyle at this point, and Beau would get a huge shot of confidence going into next folkstyle season. That’s a really tough way to lose, though. I hope Beau and Nick are cool with each other and will help each other become the best wrestlers they can going forward.
Wasnt Beau our U23 rep last year, I fully expect him too take that title this year.I think they call that fleeing the hold, and it's also a Caution & 1.
I will say--whenever new rules come out, it seems like USA Wrestling refs usually actually embrace them, and try to incorporate them as best they can into their calling of matches, whereas, UWW refs take a much more liberal "spirit of the rule" type of interpretation.
In Vegas, it looks like the refs conferred after every step out "Is it also fleeing?" and if a majority was yes, they'd issue the caution. AB (or should we call him American Yazdani?) cautioned a dude out yesterday doing just that.
Anyway, here's the exchange:
@NittanyChris I think Beau was trying to secure the win by not engaging in wrestling, and backed straight off the mat with little effort to stay in bounds and/or engage. I know we see it ALL THE TIME in sub-20 second close match situations, which is why I think they added the rule this year. It's not the way I wanted that match to end at all, but I think it was the correct call.
I do have my doubts about the "grounded" call when Beau looked to score his own step out point on the immediately preceding exchange, though. Nick was grounded in the circle, and then he got up as he went out.
For me, the bottom line of this match was how good it was! These dudes went at it, and Beau is clearly at a new level with his confidence. Medals for them all in the future!
Yeah, screw that criteria, bring back the “ref‘s decision”
100% he was fleeing the mat. I understand that is fairly common in wrestling in the last few seconds of a close match but he took like 7-8 steps straight backwards and out of bounds. If he circles at all he wins the match. I hate him losing like that but it was the correct call
My wife is a wrestling fan but doesn’t know a lot about it.
1) she was noticing how much more action the US Open had, compared to the NCAAs last month. It is a lot more exciting. She thought the wrestlers trying to score a point with riding time was a factor in making the NCAAs dull sometimes.
2) admittedly the scoring is confusing. How does criteria work? Why do some exposures score points and others don’t? Why did one wrestler go on the clock? The announcers did a pretty good job trying to explain but it’s hard for fans to understand, any simplification is great.
Hated to see Beau lose that way! Seems he didn’t fully understand the risks of backing off the mat without more of a struggle, either.
I disagree. Nick shut it down too early but looked good up to that point. Lesson for both!
Even though BB lost by the thinnest of margins; me thinks we are going to see hell on Resilite next season.
Keeping up with Lee, even when he's subpar is the best indication that BB's reaching the asymptotic point of his development.
Keeping up with Lee, even when he's subpar is the best indication that BB's reaching the asymptotic point of his development.
Freestyle is like Angel Rivera determined scoring criteria.
I believe it was Cole Matthews.
If BB takes 3rd here, is he a World Team member? Does he become the U23 rep instead of having to go through WTTs?
I'm glad it was against Nick because I would be fuming (and still kind of am because I feel Beau earned it) against any other wrestler. Referee inserted himself way too much by hitting that C1 as @CSauertiegPSU mentioned and Beau clearly still thought he was okay since they messed up criteria (showing he had it) and wrestled accordingly.
Just to clarify, it was at least 2 of the 3 officials that made the call, not just the referee.
That was as blatant of a flee as I have ever seen. I wish they called folk style like that.
I love BB. He walked right off the mat. It was the right call. Couldn’t believe he did it at the time.
I can see the argument for a re-do. BB probably would not have backed off the mat had he known criteria went to Lee. It’s a very unfortunate situation
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