Let's be honest: The notion the names were put on to honor...
- Thread starter NittanyChris
- Start date
Well, I remember this quite well....BOB interviewing for NFL gigs after ONE year at PSU.
If any of you doubt that PSU wasn't a stepping stone for BOB, you're delusional.
BOB and the BOT both got what they wanted: BOB got a stepping stone into the NFL; and, the BOT got a quality coach willing to do what they wanted.
People here who think otherwise are just plain ignorant.
If any of you doubt that PSU wasn't a stepping stone for BOB, you're delusional.
BOB and the BOT both got what they wanted: BOB got a stepping stone into the NFL; and, the BOT got a quality coach willing to do what they wanted.
People here who think otherwise are just plain ignorant.
I don't care what was "stated". Bill O'Brien would have told the administration to go to hell before he'd pander to any of their schemes. And he certainly wouldn't have stood in front of the media and lied through his teeth if the names were a forced decision.
The statue and the Rod banner and "probably" the plane banner were all epic FU's to everyone not on board the stupid train. That train is backed up. The uniforms were agreed on by the team and coaching staff.
The word Bingo implies that being discussed is an absolute.This assertion is far from an absolute. In fact there in no evidence supporting it. To be credible you should be required to produce evidence, don't you think?
Well, you're right about one thing. He didn't like the administration, especially Joyner. But he cared about football, not politics, and he did what he had to do to maintain his football team. When he couldn't take it any more, he called Donovan to give Franklin a heads up, and then left.
Many people seem to think they can accuse anybody of anything without evidence and then not be asked to produce hard facts to support their assertions. If you can't prove it you can't expect people to believe it.
Also good for FLO who was looking to horse trade his freshly-minted Guaranteed PSU Head Coaching Contract (his 1st ever Head Coaching contract in his career btw) into an NFL Contract.....IOW, it was self-serving pablum to cover for his earlier commitment to PSU fans that he "guaranteed" he would not change the uniform including specifically no names on the back because he understood what they meant to PSU's values and tradition, etc...blah, blah, blah. A commitment by FLO that was like all his other commitments including his PSU contract -- just words......and commitments and contracts are made permitted to be broken if it is in your own sefl-interest....
They could have burned down Beaver Stadium too!
Can you imagine the alumni reaction to a complete uniform change? Many would not have been happy.
So you think the well connected Tom McAndrew doesn't know what he's talking about? Who do you believe is better connected than Tom? Why did O'Brien state so positively that he would not make changes to the uniforms and go so far as to make very positive statements about the nameless uniforms only to turn around and put names on the jerseys.
Also, you state that O'Brien did such a good job. I presume you are aware of the defensive struggles after Butler was named DC. Why did O'Brien name the inexperienced Butler DC when he had an experienced and proven exceptional DC in Vanderlinden on his Staff?
Ok, so when OB traveled to that BOT meeting at a branch campus and told the Board that "the lawsuits aren't helping," that was all his idea I suppose? Because it seems a lot more likely to me that he'd want nothing to do with doing something like that and that he must have been talked into it by the power bloc of the Board. And if he pandered to that scheme, it wouldn't surprise me if he went along with a directive to put names on the uniforms also.
Pandering to this corrupt, soulless scum is the perfect description. Then FLO making up a story that it was all his idea to cover for the fact that it DIAMETRICALLY CONTRADICTED his earlier words and commitments regarding the uniforms and specifically putting names on the uniforms, was just classic "fungible-integrity FLO" capable of doing just about anything in the name of his own self-interest and self-promotion......
Right. When asked about the uniforms, OB could have said, "Nah, I have no plans to change the uniforms. Next question." But he went out of his way to say how not having names on the jerseys was in line with his philosophy. Then we're to believe he did a complete 180 a few months later. I don't buy it.
Now, people say he had the players to vote on it. I don't doubt that happened. But I also think that if he pitched it to them the way he ended up describing it to the press (recognizing the players who stayed), I'm not at all surprised if the players voted for the names. The big question is what would he have done if they voted against?
FWIW, I don't really fault OB if Tom's right about how this transpired. He probably didn't think it was worth going to battle over.
I thinks Tom's information, which I trust, speaks for itself.
As for the murals, they were not done. They would have continued their destruction of all things Paterno if they had their way, but they misjudged the statue issue. They never expected the ongoing outrage. I stand by my statement that they did what they felt they could get away with at the time and would have continued if they had faced limited opposition.
Exactly! Tom was spot on correct.
QUOTE="PSU-Knocker, post: 313440, member: 9722"]So you think the well connected Tom McAndrew doesn't know what he's talking about? Who do you believe is better connected than Tom? Why did O'Brien state so positively that he would not make changes to the uniforms and go so far as to make very positive statements about the nameless uniforms only to turn around and put names on the jerseys.
Also, you state that O'Brien did such a good job. I presume you are aware of the defensive struggles after Butler was named DC. Why did O'Brien name the inexperienced Butler DC when he had an experienced and proven exceptional DC in Vanderlinden on his Staff?[/QUOTE] I said nothing negative about Tom. I can't go by what people are saying. Show Me The Smoking Gun. if the smoking gun is not possible then stop putting it out there. it's just another opportunity to take a shot at the enemy. don't put words in my mouth anymore.
Also, you state that O'Brien did such a good job. I presume you are aware of the defensive struggles after Butler was named DC. Why did O'Brien name the inexperienced Butler DC when he had an experienced and proven exceptional DC in Vanderlinden on his Staff?[/QUOTE] I said nothing negative about Tom. I can't go by what people are saying. Show Me The Smoking Gun. if the smoking gun is not possible then stop putting it out there. it's just another opportunity to take a shot at the enemy. don't put words in my mouth anymore.
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The players' importance to the success of the program, however, is exactly why the fate of Penn State's jerseys matters. And by and large, they've spoken.
Jerseys without names on the back - signifying that no one individual in an ultimate team game has any more importance than any other piece - are overwhelmingly preferred by the hundreds of living Penn State Lettermen. Thursday's announcement by second-year head coach James Franklin that the jerseys would return to their traditional look, held for 125 years previously, was met with great enthusiasm as a result.
"I knew this was important from day one. Any decision you make, there's going to be a percentage either way that don't completely agree. I think this is one that's a little bit hard to argue with because this is a program that was built on history and tradition, success with honor, all the things that we hold so dear to our hearts," Franklin told the media Thursday afternoon. "The fact that we have tradition to embrace, the fact that we have history to embrace and hold onto I think is valuable. There's programs that would give their right arms to have the history and the tradition that we have."
And that, it seems, speaks to the core of why so many Lettermen feel so strongly about a topic that might otherwise seem superfluous.
Certainly, the fact that jerseys without names had always been the way Penn State operated in the past matters. But doing something just because that's the way it'd always been done isn't necessarily a good reason to do something. In fact, refusing change without reason can become a huge detriment to progress.
When a viable, legitimate reason enters the equation, the core values and an important identity emerge.
For Penn State football - and in many cases throughout college football - that identity is tied intimately to the reasons behind long-held traditions. And though they can change and evolve as new head coaches and personnel take their places in Penn State football history, and new ones can occasionally arise and take hold, the values and reasoning behind those traditions maintain their importance.
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Thank God for Coach Franklin, he "gets it" unlike yourself.....he is critically important to The Pennsylvania State University Community and PSU's Football Program's, "culture", tradition and "core values", you.....not so much and I don't think anyone much cares what you think, nor does it much matter.
One phrase,....." the lawsuits are not helping"
Sorry , I love Bill O'brien. I can't imagine anyone guiding PSU football through such a difficult time. But this is when he lost part if me, and he was "flat out lying" for the administration and NCAA.
Then what was the reason for the move when O'Brien stated clearly he supported the nameless jerseys?
I have forgot more about Penn State football than you've ever learned in your life. your life is consumed around complaining. when you complain about everything nobody takes you seriously. it was a good idea to put the names on the jerseys as most people will agree and it was a good idea to take the names off. think of all the time you're wasting reading this right now when you could be lining up your next thing to complain about.
[QUOTE ="PSU-Knocker, post : 314103, member: 9722"]Why?[/QUOTE] because I like the idea of honoring the men that stayed by putting their names on the uniform. I like the reason that was given and it doesn't matter to me who puts an idea out there if its a good idea. If Charles Manson had the cure
for cancer I would use his idea.
for cancer I would use his idea.
I never said you did!
Why should anybody give any credence to what you're stating? Tom has proven that he has good sources; what are yours?
Where do you get the idea that I put words in your mouth? You're a real piece of work.
Really? Coach Franklin has already said the opposite you know-nothing dip$hit - he said that he has received complaints about the defacing of the uniforms by FLO since the day he took the job and he has clearly stated that virtually every person to a man including fans, alumni, former players and current players are in favor of the TRADITIONAL UNIFORMS for what they signify and wanted the names taken off immediately. More of your BOT-bot bull$hit about how a corrupt handful of complete scumbag a-holes who have "hi-jacked" PSU in VIOLATION of the Charter and Pennsylania Law equates to "most people will agree it was a good idea to put the names on the jerseys" (it is also the DIAMETRIC opposite of what FLO committed to when he first took the job - committed that he would not change the iconic uniforms or ever put names on the back of the jerseys - go figure that you don't recognize the "flip-flop" when his master's told him the uniforms would be defaced regardless of what he committed....just like they told him he'd be running a slide show attacking and attempting to discredit the alumni-elected BOT Members who were courageously fighting the injustice perpetrated upon the University and Football Program by the NCAA and the corrupt "old guard" Board of Thieves, Liars, Charlatans and Whores). You and your BOT-bot masters are truly soulless, disgusting, little wusses and douchebags hiding behind your fleet of corrupt politicians and lawyers. Awe, are you all butt-hurt because Coach Franklin is "RESTORING THE TRADITION" and has basically said it should never have been violated in the first place???
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because I like the idea of honoring the men that stayed by putting their names on the uniform. I like the reason that was given and it doesn't matter to me who puts an idea out there if its a good idea. If Charles Manson had the cure
for cancer I would use his idea.[/QUOTE]
Some f'n honor. If that's an honor, then why do you support taking the names off. Don't our current athletes deserve to be honored?
its just a way to knock either O Brien, BOT, Joyner or Erickson.
[QUOTE.="Bushwood CC, post: 314163, member: 7888"]Really? Coach Franklin has already said the opposite you know-nothing dip$hit - he said that he has received complaints about the defacing of the uniforms by FLO since the day he took the job and he has clearly stated that virtually every person to a man including fans, alumni, former players and current players are in favor of the TRADITIONAL UNIFORMS for what they signify and wanted the names taken off immediately. More of your BOT-bot bull$hit about how a corrupt handful of complete scumbag a-holes who have "hi-jacked" PSU in VIOLATION of the Charter and Pennsylania Law equates to "most people will agree it was a good idea to put the names on the jerseys" (it is also the DIAMETRIC opposite of what FLO committed to when he first took the job - committed that he would not change the iconic uniforms or ever put names on the back of the jerseys). You and your BOT-bot masters are truly soulless, disgusting, little wusses and douchebags hiding behind your fleet of corrupt politicians and lawyers. Awe, are you all butt-hurt because Coach Franklin is "RESTORING THE TRADITION" and has basically said it should never have been violated in the first place???[/QUOTE] I love that they're going back to the no names. when I saw how the lettermen reacted to it I realize it was the right move. again you resort to your Gutter mouth tactics of the man that can't compete. I'm just going to call you the man who can't compete from now on. I know all the traditions and I know the words to all the songs buddy. I venture to say you definitely have not watched more Penn State football than me. you must be a student or a very young man. nobody with any character or maturity would act like you do. your hysterical tirades expose you for being the unstable poster that you are. you have no idea how to reason or to critically examine an issue. you use similar strawman tactics that's some other guys on this board employ. I actually laugh at you everytime you post.
it doesn't matter to many if there is no way to be certain. an accusation is all you need to damage your enemies.
maybe he thought that the law suits were not going to help have you ever thought of that. now you are calling bill Obrien a liar? You can't know what he was thinking there.
Some f'n honor. If that's an honor, then why do you support taking the names off. Don't our current athletes deserve to be honored?[/QUOTE] so just don't agree then dude. what do you want me to give up and say you won. when you really win I will do that. I support taking the names off now because that is what the coach wants and that obviously is what the lettermen want. Do you want me to slow down and say that again. Let me clear this up and I will talk slow for you. I like the idea of giving recognition and I like the idea of going back to the old way. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.
...leaked GJP(just after JoePa broke the record)
...2002 in the GJP(when it was 2001)
...Mcqueary witnessing rape (when he didn't)
...crafty writing to when Joe was told (rape) and when he told his boss
...the cancelled press conference by the BOT
...Joe being fired at 10pnm via phone call following a delivery of a manilla envelope(after 60+ years of service)
...State College shown to be having riots(when it was one truck turned over by 6 students max)
...the plane over State College
...the complete removal of everything Paterno
...the Freeh Report
...the "delivery" of the Freeh Report
...the shocked disbelief by the BOT (to the results of the Freeh Report)
...the Draconian-like sanctions leveled against Penn State
...Illinois camping out State College recruiting transfers
...Bradley and others "connected" to the program NOT given a fair shake for the HC position
So, BOB was hired and BEFORE the season starts, he (on his own accord) decides to honor the kids that stayed by placing names on the jerseys. And, this comes AFTER the BOT made it clear that it is THEY that controls athletics and not vice-versa.
If that's the case, WHY PRAY TELL was an outsider allowed to make such a decision when any football-related decision (or athletic decision, for that matter) was to be decided by the BOT?
According to the results of the Freeh Report....never again, will Penn State's left hand NOT know what her right hand is doing. Yet, BOB was acting solo? Only he decided to ADD the names (something most sacred to the storied past and synonymous with Paterno)?!?
...2002 in the GJP(when it was 2001)
...Mcqueary witnessing rape (when he didn't)
...crafty writing to when Joe was told (rape) and when he told his boss
...the cancelled press conference by the BOT
...Joe being fired at 10pnm via phone call following a delivery of a manilla envelope(after 60+ years of service)
...State College shown to be having riots(when it was one truck turned over by 6 students max)
...the plane over State College
...the complete removal of everything Paterno
...the Freeh Report
...the "delivery" of the Freeh Report
...the shocked disbelief by the BOT (to the results of the Freeh Report)
...the Draconian-like sanctions leveled against Penn State
...Illinois camping out State College recruiting transfers
...Bradley and others "connected" to the program NOT given a fair shake for the HC position
So, BOB was hired and BEFORE the season starts, he (on his own accord) decides to honor the kids that stayed by placing names on the jerseys. And, this comes AFTER the BOT made it clear that it is THEY that controls athletics and not vice-versa.
If that's the case, WHY PRAY TELL was an outsider allowed to make such a decision when any football-related decision (or athletic decision, for that matter) was to be decided by the BOT?
According to the results of the Freeh Report....never again, will Penn State's left hand NOT know what her right hand is doing. Yet, BOB was acting solo? Only he decided to ADD the names (something most sacred to the storied past and synonymous with Paterno)?!?
[/QUOTE]"SEPATOPTEN, post: 314238, member: 8194"].[/QUOTE]
You really need to learn how to use the board, because you not only demonstrate that you are unstable with your "I know more than you"....."everybody thought names on jerseys".....unsupported, childish BS arguments, but your responses are unreadable because you're such a moron, you can't even figure out how to respond without defeating the boards basic setup and format.
You really need to learn how to use the board, because you not only demonstrate that you are unstable with your "I know more than you"....."everybody thought names on jerseys".....unsupported, childish BS arguments, but your responses are unreadable because you're such a moron, you can't even figure out how to respond without defeating the boards basic setup and format.
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so just don't agree then dude. what do you want me to give up and say you won. when you really win I will do that. I support taking the names off now because that is what the coach wants and that obviously is what the lettermen want. Do you want me to slow down and say that again. Let me clear this up and I will talk slow for you. I like the idea of giving recognition and I like the idea of going back to the old way. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE]
No, I don't want you to slow down. I want you to answer the question. If it is an honor for the 2012/13/14 teams to have their names on their jerseys, don't the 2015 athletes deserve to be honored?
Now try to answer the question; don't go circuitous, don't try to insult me, answer the question. Don't give me this is what the coach wants. You stated that the names were an honor; if they are an honor, why don't you want the 2015 and successors so honored? Don't they deserved to be honored?
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