Let's be honest: The notion the names were put on to honor...

[Bushwood CC]

so just don't agree then dude. what do you want me to give up and say you won. when you really win I will do that. I support taking the names off now because that is what the coach wants and that obviously is what the lettermen want. Do you want me to slow down and say that again. Let me clear this up and I will talk slow for you. I like the idea of giving recognition and I like the idea of going back to the old way. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive.

No, I don't want you to slow down. I want you to answer the question. If it is an honor for the 2012/13/14 teams to have their names on their jerseys, don't the 2015 athletes deserve to be honored?

Now try to answer the question; don't go circuitous, don't try to insult me, answer the question. Don't give me this is what the coach wants. You stated that the names were an honor; if they are an honor, why don't you want the 2015 and successors so honored? Don't they deserved to be honored?

Coach Franklin quite eloquently stated that the "honor" is the PRIVILEGE of wearing The Pennsylvania State University Football Uniform - the same uniform, representing the same "core values" and "integrity" that thousands of former PSU Football players wore in the same way, representing those same "core values".

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Coach Franklin quite eloquently stated that the "honor" is the PRIVILEGE of wearing The Pennsylvania State University Football Uniform - the same uniform, representing the same "core values" and "integrity" that thousands of former PSU Football players in the same way and representing those same "core values".

You know that; I know that. What I'm asking this (expletive deleted) is to defend his logic. When I say "logic", I'm using the term loosely where this (expletive deleted) is concerned.

You're correct, he doesn't know how to use the forum correctly and it makes difficult for third persons to know what the person he is trying to quote states and what his response is.

 

[Bygsky]

the players who stayed was always a farce. Putting the names on the jerseys was just one more foolish attempt by our disgusting higher-ups to distance themselves from Joseph Vincent Paterno.

The idea that they were honoring the players who stayed was only a rationalization to attempt to make it more palatable to appropriately angry alumni. OF COURSE, we should have honored the incredible young men who stayed to pull the team through crisis. However, that was NEVER the real reason the names were put on the jerseys.

Lol....another one

 

[NittanySteel]

Oh my god then this means Mauti and Zordich were in on the conspiracy too!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Oh my god then this means Mauti and Zordich were in on the conspiracy too!!!!!!!!!!!

So Mauti and Zordich wanted to HONOR themselves? They were that shallow? Remember honor was the reason given. If having the names on the jerseys is an honor, why limit it to the 2012/13/14 squads? Aren't
the 2015/16/17/18 and others worthy of being honored or are they to do battle for Penn State honor less?

Mauti said in response to the nameless move:
“I think that’s what Penn State’s been about. It’s never been about one single guy. That’s the philosophy that Joe [Paterno] had and that’s what makes Penn State a special place. It’s one of those traditional uniforms that’s classic and it’s been for a long time. I think it’s great that coach Franklin did this.”
"Now that we’ve moved on a couple years from that I think it’s important that Penn State goes back to what it has always been and that’s never been about one person."

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Many people seem to think they can accuse anybody of anything without evidence and then not be asked to produce hard facts to support their assertions. If you can't prove it you can't expect people to believe it.

However, are you not asserting that Tom was not telling us the truth?

 

[SEPATOPTEN]

"SEPATOPTEN, post: 314238, member: 8194"].[/QUOTE]

You really need to learn how to use the board, because you not only demonstrate that you are unstable with your "I know more than you"....."everybody thought names on jerseys".....unsupported, childish BS arguments, but your responses are unreadable because you're such a moron, you can't even figure out how to respond without defeating the boards basic setup and format.[/QUOTE]focus on substance and not your obsession if things are capatalized.dude you are a walking train wreck and you are calling me out.You guys are pathetic. Oh look he is wrong because he did not dot all his eyes and cross all his t's. Your not a guy that could be trusted to make any type of critical decision. Your shortcomings are numerous. Keep up your one man crazy campaign.

 

[SEPATOPTEN]

[QUO until ITE="Ten Thousan Marbles, post: 314853, member: 10246"]However, are you not asserting that Tom was not telling us the truth?[/QUOTE]I guess Tom must be pretty confident in the integrity of his source. Ponder this for a second. Would a good jurist take a guys word for it or would a good jurist require Tom's source to be revealed and his story to be told to be able to make a not guilty or guilty judgement? So while I don't doubt Tom heard what he heard I think it would be out of the realm of reason to just except it without having more information and to know who told Tom which I am sure we will never and should never know because I believe it was probably told in confidence. This was all about taking a shot at OB or the guys that came up with the idea.

 

[NittanyChris]

This was NEVER about taking a shot at OB. It was another shot at the disgusting higher-ups who were so busy distancing themselves from Joe while they were throwing him under the bus.
OB actually came up with a valid reason to do it because the young men truly deserved to be honored. However, as I wrote, it was NEVER the real reason why it was done.

 

[Bushwood CC]

You really need to learn how to use the board, because you not only demonstrate that you are unstable with your "I know more than you"....."everybody thought names on jerseys".....unsupported, childish BS arguments, but your responses are unreadable because you're such a moron, you can't even figure out how to respond without defeating the boards basic setup and format./Quotefocus on substance and not your obsession if things are capatalized.dude you are a walking train wreck and you are calling me out.You guys are pathetic. Oh look he is wrong because he did not dot all his eyes and cross all his t's. Your not a guy that could be trusted to make any type of critical decision. Your shortcomings are numerous. Keep up your one man crazy campaign.

Still haven't figured out how to use a rather simple communication medium? LMFAO

 

[Bushwood CC]

This was NEVER about taking a shot at OB. It was another shot at the disgusting higher-ups who were so busy distancing themselves from Joe while they were throwing him under the bus.
OB actually came up with a valid reason to do it because the young men truly deserved to be honored. However, as I wrote, it was NEVER the real reason why it was done.

Bingo. Not hard to understand at all despite some attempting to make it more complicated. No different than these same disgusting higher-ups putting this same coach up to a disgraceful "slide show" at an off campus BOT Meeting that he had to travel a couple hours to attend (which just coincidentally happened to have media present to record said slide show, don't you know) -- a slide show which attacked and attempted to discredit the courageous Alumni-Elected BOT Members who were attempting to correct the injustice perpetrated by the NCAA and their enablers.

 

[Bushwood CC]

QUO until ITE="Ten Thousan Marbles, post: 314853, member: 10246"]However, are you not asserting that Tom was not telling us the truth?/QUOTEI guess Tom must be pretty confident in the integrity of his source. Ponder this for a second. Would a good jurist take a guys word for it or would a good jurist require Tom's source to be revealed and his story to be told to be able to make a not guilty or guilty judgement? So while I don't doubt Tom heard what he heard I think it would be out of the realm of reason to just except it without having more information and to know who told Tom which I am sure we will never and should never know because I believe it was probably told in confidence. This was all about taking a shot at OB or the guys that came up with the idea.

You butcher the format every time you post - you should be a competitor in Montey Python's "Twit Olympics". ROTGFLMAO!

 

[Bushwood CC]

This was NEVER about taking a shot at OB. It was another shot at the disgusting higher-ups who were so busy distancing themselves from Joe while they were throwing him under the bus.
OB actually came up with a valid reason to do it because the young men truly deserved to be honored. However, as I wrote, it was NEVER the real reason why it was done.

FLO was not "his own man" as proven by this event (FLO being forced to do the DIAMETRIC OPPOSITE of what he committed he would not do only months before) and proven by the disgraceful "slide show" he was put up to at the off-site BOT Meeting attacking and attempting to discredit the newly elected Alumni-Representatives on the BOT who were acting courageously and in a righteous manner. FLO was servile to this disgusting and corrupt scum out of pure self-interest -- he was not going to do anything that "rocked the boat" and would put his "guaranteed ~$4 million per year deal while he spent all his time attempting to horse-trade the deal into a higher-paying NFL deal" contract in jeopardy. FLO didn't give a crap about these kids or the program, all's he cared about was satisfying his corrupt and malignant masters until he found his higher-paying NFL contract.

 

[PSUMATT85]

maybe he thought that the law suits were not going to help have you ever thought of that. now you are calling bill Obrien a liar? You can't know what he was thinking there.

Neither can you

 

[b&w1987]

the players who stayed was always a farce. Putting the names on the jerseys was just one more foolish attempt by our disgusting higher-ups to distance themselves from Joseph Vincent Paterno.

The idea that they were honoring the players who stayed was only a rationalization to attempt to make it more palatable to appropriately angry alumni. OF COURSE, we should have honored the incredible young men who stayed to pull the team through crisis. However, that was NEVER the real reason the names were put on the jerseys.

Posts like yours make me want to distance myself from Penn State Alumni. How can supposedly educated people write such ignorant blather?

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

Posts like yours make me want to distance myself from Penn State Alumni. How can supposedly educated people write such ignorant blather?

And then there are guys like you, who constantly continue to dispute answers that have already been provided on this very message board.....in this case by the board administrator himself.

 

[BobPSU92]

Posts like yours make me want to distance myself from Penn State Alumni. How can supposedly educated people write such ignorant blather?

As unpleasant at NittanyChris's post reads, Tom previously put forward this exact position. As usual, Tom did not reveal his sources, so no one can say with absolutely certainty that this is the truth, but we also have no reason to doubt Tom.

 

[NittanyChris]

Posts like yours make me want to distance myself from Penn State Alumni. How can supposedly educated people write such ignorant blather?

Excuse me? My position is supported by the board administrator, whom I would trust to be much more credible than you. Nice try, though.

 

[Mister Magoo]

So you think the well connected Tom McAndrew doesn't know what he's talking about? Who do you believe is better connected than Tom? Why did O'Brien state so positively that he would not make changes to the uniforms and go so far as to make very positive statements about the nameless uniforms only to turn around and put names on the jerseys.

Also, you state that O'Brien did such a good job. I presume you are aware of the defensive struggles after Butler was named DC. Why did O'Brien name the inexperienced Butler DC when he had an experienced and proven exceptional DC in Vanderlinden on his Staff?

Ask one of your well-connected sources why Vanderlinden wasn't brought back. 8-4 and 7-5 given our situation was a good job. We folded with less adversity in
other seasons.

 

[Lion8286]

Excuse me? My position is supported by the board administrator, whom I would trust to be much more credible than you. Nice try, though.

So what you are saying is that your original post is just re-hashing a subject that had already been previously discussed? Good for you.

 

[NapaNit]

Lubert, Suhey, and Surma w/ Joyner as the lackey seamstress.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

Ask one of your well-connected sources why Vanderlinden wasn't brought back. 8-4 and 7-5 given our situation was a good job. We folded with less adversity in
other seasons.

Ask yourself who was the DC for Northwestern the last time Northwestern won the BIG. Never mind, I'll tell you, it was Vanderlinden - a proven commodity. In addition to that, we had pretty good defensive personnel during those 8-4 and 7-5 years.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

So what you are saying is that your original post is just re-hashing a subject that had already been previously discussed? Good for you.

How about you give us a little "Oink!"
Can you do that for us?

 

[NittanyChris]

So what you are saying is that your original post is just re-hashing a subject that had already been previously discussed? Good for you.

Translation: "you've touched on a truth that is too uncomfortable for me to cope with, so instead of providing a reasonable counterpoint I will simply respond in a snide and condescending manner."

 

[marshall23]

NapaNit Bingo we have a winner

 

[b&w1987]

Excuse me? My position is supported by the board administrator, whom I would trust to be much more credible than you. Nice try, though.

Oh my ...not the "Board Administrator" ...how could I be so crass as to doubt the "Board Administrator"? I guess I am just naïve taking the coaches at their word? So be it.

 

[b&w1987]

Translation: "you've touched on a truth that is too uncomfortable for me to cope with, so instead of providing a reasonable counterpoint I will simply respond in a snide and condescending manner."

Again another person who must translate a sentence into something completely different to prop up their own biases? I touched on a truth all right and stand on my opinion.

 

[NittanyChris]

Yes, because Bill O'Brien's word has proven to be so valuable.

 

[manatree]

Food for thought. If the name on the front of the jersey is more important the the name on the back, if it is truly all about the team and not the individual, why does Penn State publicize and promote individual statistics?

 

[Mister Magoo]

As unpleasant at NittanyChris's post reads, Tom previously put forward this exact position. As usual, Tom did not reveal his sources, so no one can say with absolutely certainty that this is the truth, but we also have no reason to doubt Tom.

Ask yourself who was the DC for Northwestern the last time Northwestern won the BIG. Never mind, I'll tell you, it was Vanderlinden - a proven commodity. In addition to that, we had pretty good defensive personnel during those 8-4 and 7-5 years.

The reason he wasn't hired as DC had nothing to do with his coaching abilities.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

The reason he wasn't hired as DC had nothing to do with his coaching abilities.

Then let us know the real reason. Certainly Butler was hired and that had nothing to do with his coaching abilities.

 

[Mister Magoo]

Then let us know the real reason. Certainly Butler was hired and that had nothing to do with his coaching abilities.

It cracks me up that people are bothered by Butler coaching our defense for one year in a 7-5 season with a wee bit of adversity. Yet, don't bring up JVP hiring Jay and setting the program back 5 years. With four losing seasons out of 5.

 

[fairgambit]

It cracks me up that people are bothered by Butler coaching our defense for one year in a 7-5 season with a wee bit of adversity. Yet, don't bring up JVP hiring Jay and setting the program back 5 years. With four losing seasons out of 5.

True, 4 losing seasons in 5, and in the 5 seasons that followed, won 51 games.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

It cracks me up that people are bothered by Butler coaching our defense for one year in a 7-5 season with a wee bit of adversity. Yet, don't bring up JVP hiring Jay and setting the program back 5 years. With four losing seasons out of 5.

Changing the subject aren't you?

Oh and by the way, you didn't tell us why Vanderlinden did not get the job despite being better qualified than Butler. If it had nothing to do with Vandy's abilities, what was the reason?

 

[Mister Magoo]

Changing the subject aren't you?

Oh and by the way, you didn't tell us why Vanderlinden did not get the job despite being better qualified than Butler. If it had nothing to do with Vandy's abilities, what was the reason?

More his demeanor towards players than coaching ability.

 

[Mr. Potter]

the players who stayed was always a farce. Putting the names on the jerseys was just one more foolish attempt by our disgusting higher-ups to distance themselves from Joseph Vincent Paterno.

The idea that they were honoring the players who stayed was only a rationalization to attempt to make it more palatable to appropriately angry alumni. OF COURSE, we should have honored the incredible young men who stayed to pull the team through crisis. However, that was NEVER the real reason the names were put on the jerseys.

The stuff your smoking; did you buy it in Colorado?

 

[fairfaxlion2]

you are giving these "higher-ups" way too much credit in assuming that they are clever.

But even if they were sitting around thinking up ways to distance themselves from Paterno, putting names on football uniforms is about as pointless and ineffective as it gets. There was always a chance that the next coach would put names on the jerseys, and we knew that for decades.

 

[NittanyChris]

you are giving these "higher-ups" way too much credit in assuming that they are clever.

But even if they were sitting around thinking up ways to distance themselves from Paterno, putting names on football uniforms is about as pointless and ineffective as it gets. There was always a chance that the next coach would put names on the jerseys, and we knew that for decades.

Good point about giving them too much credit for being clever. My bad. However, I never claimed it was an effective play by those scumbags, only that it was yet another attempt to create distance from the great man they were sacrificing at the altar.

 

[PSU-Knocker]

you are giving these "higher-ups" way too much credit in assuming that they are clever.

But even if they were sitting around thinking up ways to distance themselves from Paterno, putting names on football uniforms is about as pointless and ineffective as it gets. There was always a chance that the next coach would put names on the jerseys, and we knew that for decades.

I don't necessarily believe that the directive (if it was a directive) to put names on the jerseys was to "distance themselves from Paterno". It could well have been that one or more of the bozos desired to have the names on the jerseys. I think that move cost them some in football attendance, which makes them not very smart. Very often a move away from tradition costs attendance; some become disillusioned.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

The stuff your smoking; did you buy it in Colorado?

Are you the assigned sniper for this round?

I think you just have some real problems with multiple truths.