Lubrano was just on the Glenn Beck Program discussing how poorly the scandal was handled
- Thread starter The Spin Meister
- Start date
People tend to forget that if Courtney looked the statue up correctly he would have told Schultz that if they wanted to report suspected abuse it'd have to be done ASAP by phone to ChildLine and in writing within 48 HOURS to CC CYS (not tell DPW two weeks later).
According to the notes/emails DPW was on the table so the admins could have an "independent agency concerned with child welfare" explain to JS why his behavior was wrong and needed to stop and they said they were going to tell TSM regardless of JS' agreement with their new directives. That's why when TC changed the plan to confront JS directly (instead of going to all parties behind his back) they decided to only loop in DPW if JS pushed back. Apparently he didn't disagree so they went on to tell TSM together.
Schultz and Courtney testified they thought the same agency (CC CYS) as 98 was contacted about 2001. Schultz also said DPW wasn't contacted but if you read above it would explain why.
Thanks for the link/pic Chi....how are people just completely ignoring this info? Most people would want NOTHING to do with having their fate in the hands of people that think they should be punished even if they did nothing illegal.
This may not be the only reason why they plead out but IMO it was one of the main reasons.
Thanks - I missed the subsequent filing info. I also thought the latest was that they said DPW was contacted.
Absolutely nothing infuriates me more than this. I was reading on one of the sites yesterday and people were going on and on about 98. Why the "f" didn't JS get stopped then and there by the authorities? talk about getting fooled.
At some point your dignity and integrity should matter more than what you're afraid a jury is going to do. Being able to finally get your turn. I dunno, after 6 years I'd think you would want to take that risk unless...
says another guy at home on the couch.
...you had children and a spouse depending on you?
On the surface, that is easy.
Mike's dad and Dranov both testified they weren't told anything that warranted a call to police. What makes anyone think Mikey told a stronger story to anyone else? Everyone that Mike told about the story acted in an identical manner.
Courtney Billing sheet? How Courtney characterized a conversation between he and Schultz is almost immaterial. Plus Courtney never spoke to Mike.
I thought Schultz stated he thought someone had the action to contact DPW? It wasn't him, but his statement was that he believed there was an action to do that.
Can you please provide the page/paragraph number in the transcripts where he admitted this?
You don't trust a jury in PA to actually look beyond the headlines.
I will disagree. I am an attorney, but my criminal law background is limited. Still, I know a bit about the process. If I represented a defendant, I would try my best to get the charges dismissed, or reduced. No matter if that took 6 months, or 6 years. Then, when the case was finally ready for trial, I would try to get the best possible plea deal for my client. I would take that deal to him and might say something like this. "Look, if you want to fight this I will give it my best shot, but while I have complete belief in your innocence, based upon my experience, you have an 75% chance of being convicted. A felony conviction will catastrophically change your life, and that of your family, forever. On the other hand, if you take this deal, you will face no (or limited) jail time, and will be able to return to a somewhat normal existence. I strongly urge you to take the deal, but the decision is yours."
I largely agree with you. However, by taking a guilty plea, regardless of the reasons behind it, they are now guilty. They said so themselves. I've been wanting the truth for years and had my own opinions about what happened based on the information we had available. What I was lacking is the details of what happened inside of PSU. What discussions happened and what was reported between MM, C/S/S, 2nd Mile, etc. We still don't have a lot of detail there but we do now have a guilty plea. That is absolutely influencing my opinions of what I believe happened and puts at least some blame squarely on the shoulders of TC and GS.
Yes, well then you can't expect anybody to believe you weren't guilty. Pick your poison.
People will believe what they want to believe. Even if all the defendants were found not guilty, a large portion of the population would think their lawyers got them off. When you are a defendant in a serious criminal case, there are generally no good choices, so you make the best of a bad situation.
Certainly seems like sound advice for sure. I appreciate the perspective. The only thing is in this case the guys knew about a prior incident (innocent or not in 98) and then talked about a what if scenario. It doesn't mean I want them hung, but I certainly could understand why they would take the plea knowing what the state has. If I were them right now or their legal team I sure as hell would be saying we had no choice due to the "tainted" jury as it sounds a lot better than they had us, so we took this.
I would hope my attorney would pose that, absolutely. And please don't take my comments to mean I'd take it lightly. I think they would be doing their families a disservice not to consider their options in taking a plea deal. It's just a long time sitting on the fence and your situation is no better now than it was then. I'd want resolution, and maybe this is it for them because they are, in fact, guilty and in a no win situation.
If I have it right they plead guilty to a law not in effect at the time written or modified years later. That is insane at best because that should be overturned easily. I know it is almost impossible to overturn something you plead guilty to in a plea deal but it goes to show how desperate the AOG is. While we hoped that the two of them would go through the trial understanding the survey the wall was too high.
I cannot fault them for what they did and I still believe that they did not break the law and I wish that they took a different course of action. Being in their smhoes at that time with their limited knowledge who knows what any of us would have realized. In the end they had to do what was right for them. They were and are victims of the AOG, not as bad as those boys by any stretch but victims none the less.
For those of you like Elvis, few, stuff todo and you ilk, you are project things that you know with all likelihood are not true. Shame on you, you are dispicable.
I cannot fault them for what they did and I still believe that they did not break the law and I wish that they took a different course of action. Being in their smhoes at that time with their limited knowledge who knows what any of us would have realized. In the end they had to do what was right for them. They were and are victims of the AOG, not as bad as those boys by any stretch but victims none the less.
For those of you like Elvis, few, stuff todo and you ilk, you are project things that you know with all likelihood are not true. Shame on you, you are dispicable.
Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. They plead guilty to one misdemeanor charge that I highly doubt they see jail time on instead of taking their chances with a jury pool that has been significantly tainted by the media telling everyone that there was a conspiracy (meaning C/S/S are guilty) to cover up the crimes of a pedo. I would have probably taken a plea deal too given the circumstances. Easy for people to say they should have fought it when they don't have their lives in the hands of 12 strangers that most likely already think you're guilty before the trial even begins.
They're not even 12-1.
They're 0-1. They failed in spring 2001. End of story, you don't "advance in the bracket" (words to use given it is March Madness time) after that.
I have no opinion as to their guilt or innocence, and I seriously mean that. I try not to judge cases based upon what I read in the paper or hear on TV. I realize that is not true for most people, and so I cast no aspersions on those who have come to conclusions. I have no doubt, despite all the information available, there is still a lot we don't know about these defendants and their actions, or lack thereof. We do know they have entered guilty pleas to lesser charges, but we really don't know all that went into those decisions. Our system of justice often leaves many questions unanswered, even many years later. Still, it is the best system on earth and so we must learn to live with the uncertainty.
Who ever said this didn't happen (other than Zeigler)?
Who ever said that C&S handled things appropriately?
I think that I'm part of the majority on this board who have always thought the following:
- MM experienced something that was quite disturbing to him.
- He couldn't be absolutely sure what it was so he was very careful with his language to his dad, Dranov, Joe, C, & S.
- C&S may or may not have known about 1998 but they would also know that the authorities didn't think it was sexual assault.
- Good chance that C&S thought MM's report was about something similar - boundary issues, inappropriate touching, horseplay.
- MM embellished his story under pressure when he was being accused of doing too little to stop it.
- Therefore the incident was reported to TSM instead of police or DPW.
- Spanier probably gave a soft story to selected BOT members because he didn't think it was as serious as it turned out to be.
- At a minimum C&S failed in their administrative duties by not documenting the case properly - what MM reported, their thought process, and their ultimate decision on how to handle things. This is human resources 101 so there's not excuse for doing such a poor job.
- The claims by some (not all) of the victims seem shaky and PSU seemed too willing to settle without proper vetting.
- There is no evidence of a conspiracy to protect football.
Maybe I'll be surprised and they'll testify that MM told them about rape and that Joe & Spanier told them to cover it up. I doubt it. Let's hope we learn one way or the other.
Or they're admitting that they made a very large mistake. Calling them "horrible" is akin to ascribing malice to their actions...nothing in their plea (unless you know more than the rest of us) suggests that they covered up anything. Such a difference seems to be above your level of comprehension.
The thing is they had knowledge of Jerry being accused before and that isn't "limited" knowledge. I would totally agree if this was Jerry's first time or they had absolutely no idea about 98...but you can't call it limited knowledge when they discuss the prior incident and threaten to call a state agency. Do I think it sucks that Jerry screwed up so many people's lives including these guys...YES...in a HUGE way. Do I think these guys were going all cloak and dagger trying to hide this...nope. I gave them plenty of doubt leading up to the plea. I'm not buying the scared of a jury talking points being put out either. The state kind of had them and they kind of knew it IMO, but maybe when the info is released or GS's trial occurs we'll find out exactly what the dirt was. Probably not, but one can hope.
No way they could win the endangering children. Any jury would convict at least on that. Just a misdemeanor but it is a guilty plea so the worthless media like Sarah says Curley and Shultz are guilty! Then you have most people who glance at it and think, PSU is guilty after all. Too bad we live these days where headlines are the story.
I have no doubt you did.I DID IT!!!
(Kidding, just kidding)
Ok, I have a question after reading through most of this thread.
Could C/S/S have gone for a trial by judge rather than jury?
It certainly worked the cops favor in the Freddie Gray case.
But then maybe the judges in MD aren't on the take like some of the ones in PA.
Just curious.
Yes, in Pennsylvania you can have your case heard by a Judge sitting alone.
Maybe they're a little brighter than you are. There's that, right?
1. Indy this morning...no I won't link it...you can find it on your own. It's on this site.
2. My question wasn't about them handling it properly as we know that didn't occur. I was talking about another poster yesterday who was asking how do we know if the emails were authetic and trying to go back there. These were emails from TC IIRC that has already plead out...so it was someone doing a poort attempt at kicking the can down the road.
It wasn't very clear...sorry for the confusion.
I agree with this. I too don't like to judge people before facts are known and I don't know what they did or didn't, in fact, do in this case. All I now for fact is that whatever they did or failed to do cost PSU dearly, financially and otherwise. It would be nice for someone to speak on its behalf even if it means they implicate themselves for their failures. Hey, one could hope.
