Justice was handed out when JS was put in jail. A lot of other people technically had a chance to stop JS:
- Professionals at CPS / DPW
- Adoption agencies
- The AG
- MM.
- JM
- Dranov
- JoePa
- Heim
- Raykovitz
- C/S/S
Lubrano was just on the Glenn Beck Program discussing how poorly the scandal was handled
- Thread starter The Spin Meister
- Start date
Justice was handed out when JS was put in jail. A lot of other people technically had a chance to stop JS:
That's great, but what if JS didn't abuse AF? That would render your ridiculous ranking of blame just that - ridiculous. I can think of a few hundred million people I'd pick before AF to base my conclusions on ANYTHING on. But that's just me.
Dr Jack is out of this! Every once in awhile you show your true colors. Are you suggesting he didn't know about JS. Was not clued in on 98? Did you not read any comments from from Colt 21 who I believe does this stuff for a living say ANY report to JR requires an investigation. It's funny we beat the horseplay comment to death but didn't JR say "if you are saying JS is a ped I am telling you you're crazy" It sure sounds to me like TC got his point across.
Hopefully, i misunderstood your Dr jack is out of this comment.
That's because Lubrano is able to communicate more, and more eloquently, in 1 minute than JZ gets across in his chaotic 3 hour long rants that have no train of thought and are just an endless stream of consciousness by someone that somehow still believes Sandusky is innocent.
I think the filing that I linked is pretty straightforward. Schultz is saying that if he had been able to review his emails and notes, he would have recalled that DPW was not contacted.
Definitely more than 3 men. The difference seems to be that I don't think these people understood the magnitude of what was happening. You seem to think that many of them were part of a conspiracy.
Heck, I'll even go as far as MM's mom. Do you really think that MM told his dad and Dranov very little and that his mother didn't later ask questions about why Mike was so upset?
Thanks Lundy. I agree. I think we posted close to same time & I didn't go back far enough in the filings.
How about the cops/DA who listened in on Jerry Sandusky talking to the mother of one of the victims, when Sandusky said "I wish I could kill myself."
http://deadspin.com/5869502/detecti...ssing-da-never-said-why-he-didnt-file-charges
Schreffler said he arranged both conversations the mother had with Sandusky at the woman's house. He and another detective were in another room not far away and could hear what was said.
During the second conversation, however, Mr. Sandusky's response changed, Mr. Schreffler said.
"I'll never forget this. He said 'I would ask for your forgiveness, but I know you won't give it to me. I wish I were dead.'"
Mr. Sandusky also told the woman, "'I understand I was wrong,'" Mr. Schreffler recounted.
"Hearing him make that comment, I just felt there was more there. He was upbeat when he came in, and she started hammering him. I often wonder what he would have done if I'd stepped out from around the corner.
"It's something we'll never know."
The grand jury presentment does say that Sandusky grabbed the boy by the waist in the shower and bear-hugged him. It also says Sandusky lathered him up and washed his back, and that he picked the boy up and put him under the showerhead to rise his hair.
Cops could have/should have alerted PSU that they were convinced that Sandusky was a pedophile.
I don't care what the law says about that.
------------
I turned on a local station to hear the news at 11 AM and I heard Beck talking to someone about the scandal. The guy was saying how terribly the school handled it and gave out millions without properly vetting the claimants. Then Beck said "Thanks for calling Anthony" and after the call ended he said "That was Anthony Lubrano, a member of the Penn State BoT" and then broke for news.
I started this thread as soon as I heard that during the news break and had no idea that Ziegler was even on the air. I posted it thinking that Beck and crew would have a few comments after the news break and that others would want to hear it. I added the fact that JZ was on after the news break ended and they went back on air.
It will be interesting to listen tomorrow to see if there is any follow up, to see what reactions he may get. Some here may want to try calling in.
JZ is a bit of a loose cannon but he did point out inconsistencies, contradictions, and down right errors in the case as most people understand it. If all this does is to get some of Beck's substantial audience to ask questions, than this is a big success. A solid follow up would be even better.
Would love to see some one else get air time on his show. Chitownlion, Demlion, Blehar, or any one with a good command of the facts would be very helpful. I don't know how they could get to his show's producers to get booked but it would be awesome.
Nothing what you typed had anything to do with what I said. Stop flailing around are reading into things. You misunderstood and it is on you!
Spin - my comment wasn't on you at all. I think there was another thread down the list w/ the same general topic. It was just that the responses all flowed to the one thread (which happens all the time). Wasn't pickin' on you - just noticing out loud where the responses landed.
Whether it was a conspiracy or merely a lack of caring, those men failed the kids and PSU, so I personally don't care much how much malice there was behind it. At the end of the day, we are where we are and it's because of their actions or lack there of.
Fixed it:
Whether it was a conspiracy or merely a lack of caring, Dr. Raykovitz, Bruce Heim, Bob Poole & Katherine Genovese failed the kids and the PSU community, so I personally don't care much how much malice there was behind it. At the end of the day, we are where we are and it's because of their actions or lack thereof.
Whether it was a conspiracy or merely a lack of caring, Dr. Raykovitz, Bruce Heim, Bob Poole & Katherine Genovese failed the kids and the PSU community, so I personally don't care much how much malice there was behind it. At the end of the day, we are where we are and it's because of their actions or lack thereof.
Neither you nor Dukie should be commenting on the conduct of anyone in regard to this.
Gee, that sure does make everything better.
Had people done their jobs in 1998, then it appears as if nothing beyond 1998 would have occurred.
And TSM. Who gives a s--t whether it was police or DA? The dam authorities and agencies dropped the ball in 98. I don't know about the get Spanier stuff, but I sure as hell think Pa childcare agencies the police or DA and TSM all should have stopped JS in 98 and that is what started the "dump it on Penn State" narrative.
For the million and oneth time...we are where we are because the PROFESSIONALS whose duty is to protect the public and protect the children FAILED miserably.
A couple admins are now taking the heat for the failures done long before they got involved.
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Allow me to flail one more time,
What did you mean by "Dr.Jack is out of this"?
I believe it is pretty simple to understand really. C &S did not follow the law. They did not report. There really is no way around that. The only unknown is their reason. I do not personally believe it was a conspiracy to protect the program or the reputation of the school, rather IMO, they simply could not believe JS was capable of molesting children, and they figured they could handle things in house by having a conversation with Sandusky and limiting his access. They were not the only ones fooled, but they had a legal obligation to report.
Let me make it clear - so that no one will infer that I said something that I did not:
Its their decision to make - - - - not mine or anyone else's. No doubt out that.
I wouldn't even BEGIN to assume that they "owed" anyone a specific decision - - - - least of all, me......not now, not before, not ever.
More than anyone, or - at least - as much as anyone, I have NEVER felt that their decision belonged to anyone but them.
That doesn't change the nature of WHAT THE DECISION WAS.
It is what it is.......and it was a whispered "I'm Guilty", after - supposedly - decrying their innocence for 5 years. For whatever rationale they might want to convey.
End of story.
(FWIW, I haven't heard anything from either of them wrt what their "thought process" was - - - - - though I've heard a slew of folks opining as to what they thought it was
)And - yes - it is their (C and S) right and responsibility to take that action - - - - - no one else's
Didn't MM care enough to do more?
Didn't JM care?
Didn't Dranov care?
Didn't Raykovirz care?
IMO it wasn't a lack of care and it wasn't a conspiracy. Not understanding the magnitude of the issue? Sure. Failing to do a better job for the university? Absolutely.
Let me make it clear - so that no one will infer that I said something that I did not:
Its their decision to make - - - - not mine or anyone else's. No doubt out that.
I wouldn't even BEGIN to assume that they "owed" anyone a specific decision - - - - least of all, me......not now, not before, not ever.
More than anyone, or - at least - as much as anyone, I have NEVER felt that their decision belonged to anyone but them.
That doesn't change the nature of WHAT THE DECISION WAS.
It is what it is.......and it was a whispered "I'm Guilty", after - supposedly - decrying their innocence for 5 years. For whatever rationale they might want to convey.
End of story.
(FWIW, I haven't heard anything from either of them wrt what their "thought process" was - - - - - though I've heard a slew of folks opining as to what they thought it was
And - yes - it is their (C and S) right and responsibility to take that action - - - - - no one else's
They can't talk until the trial is order fwiw.
They didn't owe anybody a specific decision. They did owe it to PSU to handle MM's report in a more professional way.Let me make it clear - so that no one will infer that I said something that I did not:
Its their decision to make - - - - not mine or anyone else's. No doubt out that.
I wouldn't even BEGIN to assume that they "owed" anyone a specific decision - - - - least of all, me......not now, not before, not ever.
More than anyone, or - at least - as much as anyone, I have NEVER felt that their decision belonged to anyone but them.
That doesn't change the nature of WHAT THE DECISION WAS.
It is what it is.......and it was a whispered "I'm Guilty", after - supposedly - decrying their innocence for 5 years. For whatever rationale they might want to convey.
End of story.
(FWIW, I haven't heard anything from either of them wrt what their "thought process" was - - - - - though I've heard a slew of folks opining as to what they thought it was
And - yes - it is their (C and S) right and responsibility to take that action - - - - - no one else's
If you're innocent you don't plea guilty IMO. There had to be evidence that made them vulnerable. Decision probably not all about tainted jury.
Did you read past that comment? He wasn't notified by MM is all I meant by that. Not that he wasn't informed or should not have been looked into as he clearly should have been. I know they reached out to him and I wasn't excusing him. I was focusing on CSS and their role. I get the scorched earth pissed off nobody else took a hit but PSU folks, but I wasn't going there. Clear enough?
Let me make it clear - so that no one will infer that I said something that I did not:
Its their decision to make - - - - not mine or anyone else's. No doubt out that.
I wouldn't even BEGIN to assume that they "owed" anyone a specific decision - - - - least of all, me......not now, not before, not ever.
More than anyone, or - at least - as much as anyone, I have NEVER felt that their decision belonged to anyone but them.
That doesn't change the nature of WHAT THE DECISION WAS.
It is what it is.......and it was a whispered "I'm Guilty", after - supposedly - decrying their innocence for 5 years. For whatever rationale they might want to convey.
End of story.
(FWIW, I haven't heard anything from either of them wrt what their "thought process" was - - - - - though I've heard a slew of folks opining as to what they thought it was
And - yes - it is their (C and S) right and responsibility to take that action - - - - - no one else's
Fair enough, I understand. Personally, I can't bring myself to look at it that black and white. The whole saga has been the greyest of greys. These please were no different.
Just for shitz and giggles:
A couple of the BLOG posts I made from December 2015 - vav Fina/Williams' "Bribery Sting":
Someone oughtta' put Fina out of his own misery.
POST 1:
Gilson - Fina/Williams' selection as the prosecuting attorney
Gilson - the appointed front man for Fina's Slam Dunk bribery case, pontificating for the assembled Media:
"I'm batting a thousand here," said Philadelphia Assistant DA Mark Gilson. "Do you understand that? This was not a half-assed, dead-on-arrival investigation . . . these people (the Bribery Sting defendants) show up to this hearing and give up without a fight."
Meanwhile
............Peruto - Bishop's defense attorney:
"I have one horse in this race and that's Louise Bishop," Peruto (Bishop's defense attorney) said, as questions of Kane's influence dominated the press scrum. "When I'm given an offer like I was given this morning, I need to go out now and have a drink to celebrate."
The result of the "conviction" for Bribery
:NO conviction for Bribery
No conviction for Conspiracy
NO jail time
NO loss of pension
NO fine.
Literally, a "conviction" for NOTHING - - - - with no penalty
Who is being honest here?
Who "gave up without a fight"?
The "defense"? Or, the DA?
LMAO
__________________________________
Post 2:
So.....with the "big conviction" yesterday, we can now UPDATE the Fina Boys' "slam dunk" bribery case:
First....the stuff that remains the same:
This was the grand total result of Fina's "slam dunk" bribery case.
For those who like to "cut to the chase":
- NO Bribery Convictions
- NO Criminal Conspiracy Convictions.
- NO loss of Pension.
- NO Jail time
BUT, Fina and the boys did manage to provide immunity and absolve all charges against the guy who stole nearly 1/2 a million dollars - $430,000 - from a program to provide food to low income children and seniors. So, they got that going for them smile emoticon
THOSE CHARGED BY THE FINA BOYS (the gang who can't shoot - or talk - of behave - straight):
1 - Ron Waters:
Charged with - Criminal Conspiracy and Bribery (among others)
Pled to - Conflict of Interest, Paid Court Costs and a $200 fine
The plea allowed Waters - age 65 - to retire and keep his pension
2 - Harold James:
Charged with - Criminal Conspiracy and Bribery (among others)
Pled to - Conflict of Interest, Paid Court Costs and a $100 fine
The plea allowed James - age 72 - to maintain his pension
3 - Vanessa Lowery Brown:
Charged with - Criminal Conspiracy and Bribery (among others)
4 - Louise Bishop:
Charged with - Criminal Conspiracy and Bribery (among others)
The cases against Bishop (age 81) are Brown are still winding through a set of motions (including the ones mentioned in the story linked by the OP)
__________________________
UPDATE......The 81 year old Bishop steps away from her House seat....keeps her pension....no jail time.....no fine.
BAM!!!! Fina brought the hammer down again!
And the media trumpets another victory for Truth, Justice, and the American Way! Get that blue cape ready, and drape it over Frank's shoulders.
____________________________
5 - Michelle Brownlee:
Charged with - Criminal Conspiracy and Bribery (among others)
The case against Brownlee (age 59, who resigned her state house seat) appeared to have been settled this summer....when She and Seth Williams agreed on a plea to "Conflict of Interest" - whereby Brownlee would have to pay court costs (no fine, no jail).
But Brownlee had second thoughts, and withdrew her Conflict of Interest plea, and the case is winding its way through the courts (TTBOMK)
Can anyone NOT notice a pattern here with regard to Fina's "SLAM DUNK" cases?
___________________________
TOGETHER, the 5 were accused of taking $17,250 (Waters $9,000, James $750, Brown $4,000, Brownlee $2,000, and Bishop $1,500) of illegal contributions.
They guy who got IMMUNITY from Seth and the boys - in return for his cooperation in the "sting"....Ali.....absconded with $430,000 of state funds intended to provide food for low-income children and seniors.
You couldn't make this shit up if you tried.
___________
FWIW:
Are C and S going to end up with "DUI" level "penalties" as part of their deal?
Or, are they headed for a long stint in the Stone Motel?
IDK
And much like the decision they made to plea is NOT in any way my decision - - -
Whether they made a deal for a "slap on the wrist", or a "kick in the nuts", isn't my concern either - - - and I have plenty of more important stuff to consternate over.
All I know about their deals - which were entirely within their rights to make - is they f&cked "truth", "transparency", and all that jazz, right up the azz.
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Greys? Couldn't agree with you more.
Not even "sharp" greys......but fuzzy, out-of-focus, and partially hidden greys........and THAT'S for the LESS obtuse issues!
Maybe...but was there really a protocol for this unique situation? Did PSU train them how to handle situation like this one? In fairness to them, this situation really isn't in the "professional" playbook. Sadly, now it is.
PSU's attorney recommended they report it. For whatever reason they decided to report to TSM instead. They can't plead ignorance of the protocol when they didn't follow legal advice.
Why yes, yes I can!
But Fina & the boys did manage to provide protection and deflection of any charges against the guys who provided access to thousands of potential victims from a state chartered children's charitable non-profit that operated under the auspices of the very Office of Attorney General that Fina was employed at.
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