A lifeline, IMO, would be some sort of psych/Health observation. Again, not a healthcare professional be he was a danger to his peers, law enforcement, healthcare professionals and not least himself. This is not a simple throw away incident IMO.
Marsteller...
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"This is not a simple throw away incident" was pretty much my point. Once we start locking them (him) up, we are starting the "throw away" process.
I posted earlier this kid needs to learn to make better decisions and the first better decision he can/should make is to stop getting phucked up. We need to have a rehab that simply teaches, "stop being stupid!"
Sometimes (SOMETIMES) that's like telling somebody to stop being tall, or allergic, or, ...
I don't know if that applies here, but it needs to be assessed.
Look up John White from Landrum, SC. He is one such attorney, and he turns away potential clients daily.
I talked to someone connected to the situation (not close, but a relative of someone close - I know, I know) who said that Chance was going to enter a rehab facility this week. And that entering the facility would aid in reaching a plea deal to reduce the felony charges. Essentially, the hope was that Chance would spend his time in the facility and not do any jail time.
Take it for what it's worth, but sounds reasonable. Hopefully, step 1 to getting his life back on track.
Take it for what it's worth, but sounds reasonable. Hopefully, step 1 to getting his life back on track.
I am aware it can be like that, however that is almost always after an addiction has manifested. More times than not when addiction is involved it is repeated bad decisions that pave the path to many of those addictions especially narcotic/heroin addictions. Before people get down the rabbit hole is the time to preach the don't be stupid mantra. After they are down that hole, survival and miracles are the prayer requests.
So it's not self-evident that choosing your clients (as in your example) is categorically and vastly distinct from the advice attorneys are ethically bound to provide--as was the case in your better attorney hypothetical--when an attorney-client relationship is present? I mean, you moved the goalposts a whole field away there.
I agree, but aren't our prisons filled with many such young men, who needed, but didn't receive, a lifeline?
I have no idea what you are saying in this post, but I am distracted by moving today. Not sure I'm moving goalposts. Sometimes attorneys advise staying in jail until trial as an act of contrition to better manage the situation rather than leave it solely in the hands of the judge. Additionally, it allows for judge shopping to find one who is open minded about contrition.
I'll recap. You made the point that a "better attorney" would go to the family and ask the family to decide what was best for his client. I pointed out that such a course would be a serious ethical breach by the attorney. In response, you posted in the example of an attorney who you suggest turns away potential clients for..., well, I'm not sure what your point is really. And I then pointed out that an attorney's ethical obligations to actual clients (which was the case in your original example) differ exponentially from that to potential clients (your John White example).
And since you just introduced the suggestion, the concept of "judge shopping" (really, forum and/or venue shopping) is almost exclusively a civil litigation concept; far fewer options are available to criminal defendants, at least not in the short term while your client is in jail. I'm not saying there aren't ways to manipulate the system to force different outcomes but they still involve unknowns and generally take months. While your client is in jail awaiting trial.
In the hypothetical case of Marsteller, where a prison sentence was hardly certain, an attorney going to the family of Marsteller, a non-minor even, to advise the family to leave him in jail because it'd show contrition (or even if you think it'd ultimately be for Marsteller's own good, to reflect on his conduct), would not only be committing an ethical breach, but would be an idiot because a sizable chance existed (and exists) that Marsteller would not ultimately have to serve time at all.
Our prisons are filled with criminals. Those of us who have been incarcerated, will tell you that.
Chance Marstellar is not a criminal, and judges, attorneys, and prosecutors all realize that. He also has no felony priors. Felony priors matter, greatly, when determining jail or prison time for first time offenders.
Basically what I have said from day one: Chance is going to be alright. He needs our support, and love, and he needs to understand that this is now a "One day at a time" proposition for his future. He can do it, ONE DAY AT A TIME.
Tikk, you seem WAY too invested in the point of discussion than I am. I really don't care to argue the matter on a wrestling board where I go to have fun. Have a nice day.
http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/16791?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
I didn't want to be the guy to say this at the time, but this whole scenario screamed coke... Not surprised in the slightest, sadly.
I didn't want to be the guy to say this at the time, but this whole scenario screamed coke... Not surprised in the slightest, sadly.
"Officers said they attempted to restrain Marsteller, but he repeatedly banged his head on the floor, causing injuries to his nose and face and profuse bleeding."
I'm not saying anything about who was right or wrong in any part of the day, since I wasn't there, but the above quote reminds me of Yakov's joke about "peace-seeking Russian missile shot down by Korean airliner."
I'm not saying anything about who was right or wrong in any part of the day, since I wasn't there, but the above quote reminds me of Yakov's joke about "peace-seeking Russian missile shot down by Korean airliner."
Today is a new day. One day at a time, work the program and reclaim his life. Nothing but support for the young man.
Foley weighs in from intermat:
Foley: I think Chance's days on the mat are over. There is always room for forgiveness, but from what I'm being told Chance doesn't want to make the tough decisions. He was great for his span of time. He excelled and then he hit a downward spiral. As much as I'd love to see him fulfill his potential, my instinct says this behavior is part of his character, not an exception.
Foley: I think Chance's days on the mat are over. There is always room for forgiveness, but from what I'm being told Chance doesn't want to make the tough decisions. He was great for his span of time. He excelled and then he hit a downward spiral. As much as I'd love to see him fulfill his potential, my instinct says this behavior is part of his character, not an exception.
I was thinking it was more like some of the manufactured stuff like Meth,
Spice, bath salts etc
I have always been a fan of Chance, I am extremely disappointed in the direction he is going. You may be right, but unless you know him personally you can only guess on if he is ready to start doing the right things in his life. I happen to be of the opinion that assaulting police officers should always be taken seriously, but that does not always mean Jail time in every instance.(although I do think in most) However, I have seen how tough punishment (Small Jail Sentence) was enough to turn a spiraling young man into a productive citizen. Your generalization is not 100% accurate.
I hope for the best for Chance, and wrestling is not the most important part of it.
His life is in crisis, and the dangers are real. We've seen examples close to home of other very talented but troubled young men -- Andrew Long has tried and failed, and tried and failed, and tried again... Garrett Scott is dead.
Sorry, but if you think that anyone who has been incarcerated, is going to have their life turned around BECAUSE of it, then you've never been to jail or prison.
He's not going to prison anyway, for the thousandth time, he has no felony priors and a plea bargain can be worked out. He is doing the necessary steps to work to stay clean, and turn his life around for the best, day by day. Writing him off, like Foley, is horrible, and wrong.
That was what I was thinking. He may still have been on something that simply was not part of the test. There are so many things out there that no single test can get them all.
Harsh yes but sadly he probably is right. His wrestling career should be the least of his worries. I think it probably be best if he learned how to live sober without wrestling. I feel for the guy because it seems like he was raised to wrestle and had no skill for coping with the real world.
Since Foley is down on him, that makes me more optimistic that Chance can get straightened out.
That's easy for you to say, you didn't do a day of time. Sorry, I know different.
My wife's Uncle did six years in the Az state pen...Never got arrested again and was around to raise his daughters.
Can't compartmentalize recovery or treatment, everyone is different. Seen way too much individual and family pain, not all of it ending well.
Common themes though in "getting better" are separating an individual from all bad influences (so called "friends"), and having a support system when a troubled soul acknowledges their problem. Incarceration isn't the key...people are...my experience.
Common themes though in "getting better" are separating an individual from all bad influences (so called "friends"), and having a support system when a troubled soul acknowledges their problem. Incarceration isn't the key...people are...my experience.
I think that the USMC would do him a LOT more good than prison if they would still take him. Maybe the DA and/or judge would accept a plea bargain with that as part of the deal. And he could also keep wrestling. When I was in San Diego, guys from Pendleton would show up all the time to open tournaments and a lot of them were pretty decent.
Some times a good scare can get people on the right track too. I'm not going to mention names, but a lot of you older guys will know who I am talking about. A friend of mine and his twin brother got into some serious trouble while in college that almost ended their very successful wrestling careers. He's now one of the straightest guys who I know - I'd trust him with the family jewels and that's no exaggeration.
I don't know if they do the whole "it's the military or prison" thing anymore. To be honest, the military for young people who like to fight and party can be worse for someone susceptible to that type of behavior than college. A crapload of my buddies got bounced.
I was lucky...drinking and fighting were part of my routine on some weekends but I came in when it was still halfway acceptable and I never got caught by the cops except for one time. Luckily, the two guys we got into with had felony warrants out on them and we had an impartial witness in our favor so the cops kicked us loose. Now, like everything fun, it's not in keeping with military standards
If he is in rehab that is a start. Now what he gets out of rehab it is up to him and no one else. He has to do this for himself. He will get much support if he chooses to have it..No cure for addition just have to work the program and go "One day at a time"..I pray for Chance to find his way.
The old timers will tell you, it's simple: Don't use.
One day at a time. Chance will learn to day "today, I'm not going to use, I don't know a damn thing about tomorrow, but today I won't use".
You don't drink on bath salts. I understand that one's decisions are severely impacted by either, and therefore could cause one to do both. However, I've seen dudes puke off bath salts alone. I've also seen dudes fully function on bath salts. Now, what one person's "bath salts" and another's are could be very different, obviously. I had a buddy that would take them during school. Biggest hiccup in his day was that he had to leave PE to go puke towards the end of the day. A lot of the eating faces type of stuff seemed dramatized, to me and my experiences.
The more I post on this board, the more I realize I keep some weird company around.
Nah...you're just young. In my day, it was dropping acid, cocaine or heroin for the people who did that stuff. In reality, the hardest thing I ever did was smoke some weed in h.s. but even that was limited. Now they have all these newly fangled manufactured, synthetic drugs. Had a buddy in the AF that did Crystal Meth...you would have never known it except he stayed up a lot in his dorm room. He also drank and smoked weed. He eventually got kicked out, went home to Minne and got a couple of DUI's and did some time. Now married and has two teenage kids and never went back to the "life." So people react differently. Here are some of the drug reactions I pulled off of NIH for bath salts:
- paranoia—extreme and unreasonable distrust of others
- hallucinations—experiencing sensations and images that seem real though they are not
- increased sociability
- increased sex drive
- panic attacks
- excited delirium—extreme agitation and violent behavior
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