Your right forgot about Barr. We are good because we are
Michael Beard to the transfer portal
- Thread starter McScoreley
- Start date
In the 7th place match he wrestled #8 seed Buchanan and beat him in SV and his gas tank looked fine to me. To many seem to be focused on what he did during his redshirt season and ignoring how he looked at the end of his RS Frosh season.
Not pointing at you but more generally: people put too much stock in "so-and-so was close to the starter in the room."
The same could be said for Aiello, DePrez, and Warner. All lost to Dean by 1 or 2 pts at nationals. Dean survived the gauntlet, they didn't.
Let's not minimize Beard either -- he will likely be a 4x AA, no small feat.
A variant of that which HR leans on (supposed “winners” in non-scoring room battles): “Spencer was killing Gilman in the room - that’s why he ran away to the NLWC.”
And they wonder why Gilman trolls them on Twitter
If Dean had been hurt and Michael had stepped in we don't have 5 champs this year. We lost a very good wrestler, we did not lose the better of the two.
More upside than a National Championship? What would that be, world domination?
Lets not act like Max had his way with the field now, I seem to remember at least one highly questionable call going his way. I think Michael could have won that bracket too, IMO.
There was a star shining on Max in Detroit.
I agree but the upside was the reason I said better wrestler long term. Either way it doesn't matter.
I think his Offense this year was improved, even though we had a small sample. That is what I was encouraged about. I think he can takedown anyone...
Good Lord.
Max wrestled all season and defeated a large number of very talented, highly ranked kids. Max also won nationals, no opinion necessary.
Micheal wrestled in the Scuffle and failed to win it. At the Scuffle he beat Caffey and injury defaulted whille losing 5-0 to Eiam. Michael also lost to Schultz. Michael had 2 quality losses out of 3 quality opponents. Twice as many as Max in about 1/4th the number of quality opponent opportunities.
Subjective points of view are wonderful, everybody has them. Other than a simple that's my opinion so there, is there any objective data available to help validate your opinion?
so you're counting an injury and coming back from an injury. The latter is where he also showed promising offense IMO
Yes, I am using actual results. I know, that interfers with the typical "our back-up guys would finish second" silliness.
Max lost to Caffey as well. I think all people are saying is that Beard is very good as is Max and that Beard would have done well last year if he got the chance. Also, most want and expect him to do well next year.
Showed promising offense? The conversation isn't about Beard having great promise. That is a given. The conversation you responded to is whether there is any objective data available to validate an opinion that if Max had been hurt Michael would have stepped in and won the title. I don't believe there is any. Noting he showed promise certainly isn't providing any!
Not to be too argumentative, and I love Beard, but Dean is 2-time finalist and will be the defending national champion. How much more upside could there be?
That is what most were saying, I was initially taking exception to a post (there were multiple I could have chosen) that was elevating the notion of he is very good to Lehigh got the better wrestler.
We kept the national champion.
There is literally nothing more to discuss regardless of what happens the next 3 years, Michael can win the next 3 197 titles and we still didn't make the wrong decision based on the facts today.
Bottom line: You don't tell Max Dean "no" when he said he wanted to come and you don't tell him "no" if he says he wants to return after winning a national championship. There is literally nothing more to think about.
EDIT: I'm not going to dive into any wrestling analysis to critique Michael to justify that we made a right decision. The above is enough.
Bottom line: You don't tell Max Dean "no" when he said he wanted to come and you don't tell him "no" if he says he wants to return after winning a national championship. There is literally nothing more to think about.
EDIT: I'm not going to dive into any wrestling analysis to critique Michael to justify that we made a right decision. The above is enough.
Again though, I guess the data is that Beard did beat someone Max lost to which shows they are at similar levels. Yes, we kept the champ and you can’t go wrong with that decision. Beard will be a beast next year as well
While all true, it can also be true that max had very "blessed" tournament.
Your decision is much more mature and wise than mine. I just felt it was getting out of hand.
can’t we just wish Michael well in his future endeavors without comparing him to Dean. There are always going to be the speculation talks, just like you can play the what if game. But nonetheless i will be excited to see Beard take the mat and will cheer him on (not against PSU of course)
If/when they wrestle, at the end I will stand and clap.
Beard's tank issues weren't conditioning. Cael commented before last season that he has a tendency to hold his breath. They were working on that. I catch myself doing that when I lift heavy things and other major exertions. Once an elite large wrestler loses his wind it is difficult to get it back without a break for injury or review.
Not saying that in reference to dean I was saying beard has upside and for longer than one year. I'm not arguing that dean wasn't the better option I'm grateful that we have him. I was just mentioning about beard from a disappointed fan view that we didn't get to see his dreams come to fruition at Penn state. Nothing more
Am I mistaken, or does Max Dean not also have more than one year (i.e., two he wants them)?
No. The 22-23 season is his last year of eligibility.
My guess for the 2023-2024 Lineup
125: Steen (Davis redshirting)
133: Howard
141: Bartlett
149: Van Ness
157: Barraclough (I'm hoping we get Kasak and he's redshirting)
165: Haines
174: Facundo (Barr redshirt)
184: Starocci
197: Brooks (modified schedule that starts in January to focus on free but he'll wrestle for the team)
285: Kerkvliet (I can see him not wanting to wrestle folk in 2023-2024, I totally understand that but he was hoping to wrestle in 2020 when the Olympics were going on also, maybe a nice NIL package and limited schedule can change his mind)
Wrestling folk isn't the worst thing in the world for free in terms of getting your gas tank up and it's still wrestling but the concern obviously is getting hurt before trials (a la Spencer) If any coaches can balance multiple roster members hoping to wrestle trials and NCAAs and peak the the right times while juggling two styles ... it's ours.
125: Steen (Davis redshirting)
133: Howard
141: Bartlett
149: Van Ness
157: Barraclough (I'm hoping we get Kasak and he's redshirting)
165: Haines
174: Facundo (Barr redshirt)
184: Starocci
197: Brooks (modified schedule that starts in January to focus on free but he'll wrestle for the team)
285: Kerkvliet (I can see him not wanting to wrestle folk in 2023-2024, I totally understand that but he was hoping to wrestle in 2020 when the Olympics were going on also, maybe a nice NIL package and limited schedule can change his mind)
Wrestling folk isn't the worst thing in the world for free in terms of getting your gas tank up and it's still wrestling but the concern obviously is getting hurt before trials (a la Spencer) If any coaches can balance multiple roster members hoping to wrestle trials and NCAAs and peak the the right times while juggling two styles ... it's ours.
If college had the ability to add a 220 weight, we don't lose Beard.
It truly makes sense to add a weight.
Maybe NCAA would allow 10.9 scholarship instead of 9.9 with added weight.
It truly makes sense to add a weight.
Maybe NCAA would allow 10.9 scholarship instead of 9.9 with added weight.
My only problem w/ this is that then the 285 class goes back to the dancing bears mode. I kinda like the Hvy dynamic we have now that sets the smaller, quicker guys against the huge ones. Only a year or two ago, 197 seemed like one of the weaker weight classes, but there are some real studs now.
I don't ever see it going back. Too many athletic mid sized 200 pounders that will snatch an opportunity to win a title.
Yeah, I tend to agree this is the new breed. However, in a hypothetical where we add a weight class: Snyder, Cassar, White, Parris would all probably have been 220lbers. Who would’ve filled the gaps on those teams at 285? Especially since so many heavy wrestlers tend to also be good at football… I think it really weekens the heavyweight class with a 220 inserted.
Don;t know why anyone ever brings this up as the chances of NCAAs adding an additional weight class (with added expenses but no add revenues) is ZERO.
I can see a time when all heavies are below 260 it's too big of a gap for those big dudes to overcome in regards to speed
