Michigan dual thread - Feb 7
- Thread starter SouthpawPSU42
- Start date
That was likely due to the stress of the situation.
The bigger issue for me was that in his last two huge matchups, he was unable to get a short-time ride when the situation dictated it. All 3 of the guys ranked ahead of him are going to be ok taking the match deep. You've got to be able to figure out a way to get one mat return some times.
These are the lessons young guys need to learn to take the next step. That's where he is right now.
This is probably right. The one thing in Barr's favor is that of the 3, only Buchanan actually applies forward pressure and attacks. So Barr does have the opportunity to manage matches, and take his chances with his conditioning and willpower.
He does need to work on the ride, but there is a month for some tweaking.
It would be a lot more concerning at several other weights.
Something really struck me while watching the PSU-Michigan dual on TV. I was super impressed with the crowd size and atmosphere.....it sounded loud, especially at key moments, and the lighting effects were amazing. With the help of nerf I was able to help patch together some of my fading memory. When I was at Penn State in the early 80's I remember attending a PSU-Michigan dual meet at Rec Hall on a week night in early December. The crowd was so sparse, I could pick and choose where I sat in the bleachers, not even close to another fan. Totally different atmosphere.
I know this is not an apples to apples comparison. That was a weeknight (surprised we had those even back then), non-conference dual, and I think we (students) were headed into finals, but the atmosphere was so subdued. That experience resurfaced in my memory when I saw the huge crowd Friday night. How the program has grown!
Big caveat, we wrestled Michigan on a weeknight in 12/82 and 12/83, and on a Saturday night in 2/85 and 2/86 and I'm sure those Saturday evening crowds were much larger (but I don't recall, even though I know I would have attended). Not to mention I remember many really packed, raucous Rec Hall crowds against our EWL league opponents and our marquee non-conference foes.
Just a random recollection from an old man
I always attended the old Open Tourney PSU hosted - they always had almost all the bleachers rolled back so they could fit all of the resalites in Rec Hall..... There was very little seating available, but you were allowed to roam around the floor and watch whichever match you chose... (there were always guys I knew from home, Erie, wrestling in the tourney, so I'd usually go say hi... see how they were doing. ).
Agree with the caveat that after these last two matches, I'm not sure about the gas-tank advantage anymore. Josh seems to use a lot more energy against these big 97s... he seemed pretty spent (not completely gassed, but not fresh either) in the 3rd period of these last two matches.
Yeah, and if Barr gets the TD everybody blows up about the coach costing his wrestler the win.
Other than using the brilliantly shape 20-20 hindsight there was nothing wrong with keeping him down.
When I was at Penn State in the mid-70s and living in West Halls we used to run evenings on the Rec Hall indoor track during the winter or play squash or handball on Rec Hall’s courts and then take a seat in the stands to watch a wrestling match or a basketball game. Neither were revenue sports back then so admission was free. Great times.Something really struck me while watching the PSU-Michigan dual on TV. I was super impressed with the crowd size and atmosphere.....it sounded loud, especially at key moments, and the lighting effects were amazing. With the help of nerf I was able to help patch together some of my fading memory. When I was at Penn State in the early 80's I remember attending a PSU-Michigan dual meet at Rec Hall on a week night in early December. The crowd was so sparse, I could pick and choose where I sat in the bleachers, not even close to another fan. Totally different atmosphere.
I know this is not an apples to apples comparison. That was a weeknight (surprised we had those even back then), non-conference dual, and I think we (students) were headed into finals, but the atmosphere was so subdued. That experience resurfaced in my memory when I saw the huge crowd Friday night. How the program has grown!
Big caveat, we wrestled Michigan on a weeknight in 12/82 and 12/83, and on a Saturday night in 2/85 and 2/86 and I'm sure those Saturday evening crowds were much larger (but I don't recall, even though I know I would have attended). Not to mention I remember many really packed, raucous Rec Hall crowds against our EWL league opponents and our marquee non-conference foes.
Just a random recollection from an old man
I don’t think it has anything to do with 20/20 hindsight. I think it has to do with recognizing the probability of Barr scoring a short time takedown in a match where the wrestlers had already spent in excess of 8 minutes on their feet with neither coming close to a takedown. If my guy’s leading on riding time at the time the decision has to be made it seems to me to be a no-brainer to cut Barr, betting that Barr’s not going to get a takedown in the last 15 seconds, particularly since Cardenas had not yet even been hit with a warning for stalling.
I think in OT Josh should have switched from going for the ankle on top to going to a spiral or claw ride. In regulation he went to the ankle three times straight before Cardenas escaped on the fourth start using a sit out. Switching it up in OT might have been helpful. It also seems to me that using a spiral ride or claw ride is a little more conducive to being able to get locked around the waist if they get to their feet. Regarding Bormet telling Cardenas to keep Josh down at the restart, when they go out of bounds at :19 the camera clearly shows Bormet telling Cardenas to keep him down.
Beau Bartlett Highlights vs Sergio Lemley(Michigan) - with the Jeff Byers Call, 2024 141 LBS Dual Meet
I was talking about the Barr-Cardenas match with my neighbor in Rec Hall yesterday. People seem to have missed a very important point. To wit:
If Cardenas had cut Barr at that point, he would NOT have won the match in the first overtime periods. Yes, the riding time is accumulated, but it only "counts" if the match completes the second overtime periods. If he had cut Barr, they would have gone into the second set of overtimes periods.
Is it possible that Cardenas felt his best path to victory at that point was to ride out Barr instead of having to go back on his feet for the second set of overtime periods? I agree that "one, not two" should have been kept in mind a lot better, but it was not as big a brain fart as people are saying.
If Cardenas had cut Barr at that point, he would NOT have won the match in the first overtime periods. Yes, the riding time is accumulated, but it only "counts" if the match completes the second overtime periods. If he had cut Barr, they would have gone into the second set of overtimes periods.
Is it possible that Cardenas felt his best path to victory at that point was to ride out Barr instead of having to go back on his feet for the second set of overtime periods? I agree that "one, not two" should have been kept in mind a lot better, but it was not as big a brain fart as people are saying.
I think wins on the 3 second riding time advantage.
Pretty sure that is incorrect. If the score is tied after the first set of overtime periods, a second set begins. If it's tied at the end of the second set, then riding time advantage decides the match.
Matter is right. This article describes how the OT rules changed when the 2-min SV period was implemented.
If an individual match is tied after regulation, the wrestlers will go to a two-minute sudden victory where the first point scored wins. If neither wrestler scores, they will then move to 30-second rideouts where they will attempt to escape from their opponent or score against their opponent in 30 seconds. If both wrestlers, or neither wrestler, escapes or scores, the match will then move to a second round of a two-minute sudden victory. If it's still tied after the second sudden-victory, the match will move to a second round of 30-second rideouts. The wrestler with the greatest amount of riding time after the second rideout wins.
This is incorrect. They changed the rule a couple of years ago.
The only way it goes to a second SV period is if the score AND TB riding time are tied after the first TBs.
I stand corrected:
Art. 3. No Winner Determined. If no winner is declared at the end of the two-minute sudden-victory period, two 30-second tiebreaker periods shall be wrestled. The two 30-second tiebreaker periods will be wrestled in their entirety unless a fall, technical fall, default or disqualification occurs. The choice of positions in the tiebreaker period will be handled according to Rule 3.14.3or 3.14.
Art. 4. Winning the Tiebreaker Periods. The two 30-second tiebreaker periods shall be wrestled with the riding time kept and all match points scored. The competitor with the greater number of points at the conclusion of both tiebreaker periods, or who is awarded a fall, technical fall, default, disqualification or, if the score remains tied, has a net riding time advantage of at least one second, is declared the winner.
Never mind. It was a huge brain fart.
I stand correct, but was their any doubt. I have smuggest look on my face right now.
To be fair, it's also possible that Bormet and Cardenas were also confused about the new rule. After all, there are a lot of people still calling for "two" on a takedown. 🤣
Speaking of rules, here is a five point situation rarely seen: Art. 11. Injury — After Four-Point Near Fall Criterion Met. When a criterion for a four-point near fall are met, and a match is stopped for an injury, the defensive wrestler indicates an injury or has excessive bleeding, an additional point shall be awarded to the offensive wrestler.
Well, at least ADS knew the rule well enough to tap out before the swipes started.
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Exactly. So Bormet told him to keep him down going into the second ride-out period. Yeah, probably the right call, but when things started to go south for Cardenas, he's been around the block enough times to have known to bail if it was possible to do so and I just think Barr got him in a bit of trouble and he simply wasn't able to bail safely.
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