Michigan should be forced to forfeit the remaining games. Their season should be done.
More Trouble Brewing in Ann Arbor?
- Thread starter MWes11
- Start date
They are cooked. Apparently all the B1G coaches are livid behind the scenes. The B1G will take action before the NCAA. Franklin was talking about how its odd that UM just happened to be in cover 2 on 3rd and 1 when PSU went for a deep pass play.
If this is true....it's last dance time. Walls are closing in FAST...
Latest nail in Michigan coffin (note article is pay-walled):
"The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter, evidence that suggests the scandal’s impact could broaden beyond the suspension of one low-level assistant."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/25/michigan-computers-sign-stealing-evidence/
Latest nail in Michigan coffin (note article is pay-walled):
"The sign-stealing investigation threatening to disrupt Michigan’s football season began after an outside investigative firm approached the NCAA with documents and videos the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches, according to two people familiar with the matter, evidence that suggests the scandal’s impact could broaden beyond the suspension of one low-level assistant."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/10/25/michigan-computers-sign-stealing-evidence/
lol I think we all know nothing will happen until the spring. Doesn't mean it shouldn'tIn a hot minute!
Some thoughts on Michigan football and the NCAA investigation
Here are some thoughts about the NCAA investigation into potential Michigan football sign stealing, which again, isn't against the rules.
I wouldn't be shocked if this was all they doSome thoughts on Michigan football and the NCAA investigation
Here are some thoughts about the NCAA investigation into potential Michigan football sign stealing, which again, isn't against the rules.gbmwolverine.com
"Jim Harbaugh could get hit with a lack of institutional control or something, but I don’t see how his punishment could be worse than Bill Self’s at Kansas."
A couple game suspension
It's possible, but it's also Michigan oriented opinion. I like seeing all the sides, but it's crazy arrogant to act like the guy went rouge thus "f him, leave us alone". The article even whines about '18 & '19 sign stealing yet calls it sour grapes when it's them since '21.
oh yeah, that article was crazy biased "pro Michigan" but I just don't have confidence the NCAA does anything and the Big Ten won't
This is funny. Rich Eisen's wife subbing for him says that the sign stealing was so stupid and sloppy that it may not have occurred. Caught red handed and this is their excuse. See minute 9:00
So the answer is “yeah it’s cheating but everyone does it!”
Not good enough
Not good enough
Remember when Michigan pulled out of "The Game" in 2020 due to concern for the players? Maybe the rest of the B1G can do the same this year. Citing concern for the "integrity" of the game. Michigan will not get forfeit victories due to this, next year they'll be able to pick back up.
In all seriousness, Harbaugh has been eyeing the NFL. He'll bolt whenever any sanctions are handed out. If any sanctions are handed out. Michigan has gotten not just B1G programs upset. He's messed with SEC programs, and they won't back down from this. The longer this goes, and the more stuff comes out. It's gonna begin to have an effect on that team. Ohio State lost a season due to players getting tattoos. This sign stealing thing is directly related to on field results.
In all seriousness, Harbaugh has been eyeing the NFL. He'll bolt whenever any sanctions are handed out. If any sanctions are handed out. Michigan has gotten not just B1G programs upset. He's messed with SEC programs, and they won't back down from this. The longer this goes, and the more stuff comes out. It's gonna begin to have an effect on that team. Ohio State lost a season due to players getting tattoos. This sign stealing thing is directly related to on field results.
not only the coordinators...in the one video, as soon as stalions raises his arm to indicate pass, a couple of players behind him did the same thing...they also knew
If you can decipher the signs on game day, that seems to be ok and acceptable.
If you are in a future opponents stadium recording every sign they signal and matching it up with the game film and then doing this across multiple games to have everything they do scouted out, that is illegal.
Perhaps. Never underestimate the NCAA's penchant for screwing things up but the article that dropped with the Washington Post last night leads one to learn: 1) numerous asst coaches were clued in and viewing sign stealing videos, 2)tens of thousands were spent buying tickets and recruiting mules to get and pass along video, and 3) the efforts extended to filming at schools like Georgia and Tennessee. As was rumored, this was an elaborate scheme involving many moving parts, money and complicity. And it is abundantly clear from the article that an insider at Michigan is cooperating.
Define big trouble...
Since our sanctions what have they done to make you think they will act without Michigan consenting?
Additionally, that article indicated that there was a budget for future sign stealing operations. These actions were institutionalized, But nobody knew?
No. Here's a primer on this:
1) Stealing signs isn't illegal per se and many (most) team do it. But you either have to do it during the game, or from existing (i.e. TV or all 22) footage. The latter is very difficult to do because the camera is never focused on the right guys on the sideline long enough.
2) You cannot take your own video of another team for any purpose (whether this is during a game or otherwise). That's against the rules. It is alleged that UM did this.
3) You cannot go to a future opponent's games to scout them (e.g. to study their signs).
Why is this important?
Well, given 1, 2 and 3, coaches can assume that at the beginning of a game, the opposing team has never seen their signs before (assuming they changed them since last year). Teams probably change things up at halftime (or maybe even at the quarter) if they are playing a known sign stealer (e.g. Venables). In other words, even the best sign stealers need time to see enough plays to understand what they are seeing, so MAYBE they can be effective at knowing what is coming by the 2nd half.
Imagine now that you had all the signals nailed down before the first snap. That's a massive (and unexpected) advantage to the sign stealing team.
So without the advanced scouting/video work, if Michigan was really good at stealing signs during a game AND the other team didn't change things up, they might have an advantage in the latter parts of the game. BUT since they were gathering all this info beforehand (illegally) that gave them a distinct competitive advantage.
That last bit is why this is such a big deal. This isn't a recruiting violation. This isn't tattoos. This isn't too much cream cheese on your bagel. This is DIRECTLY affecting the outcome of games.
Summary
- Yesterday's article said the outside firm interviewed people at Michigan who were knowledgeable about their internal workings. At that point, they were allowed to view documents and video. People wouldn't be obligated to cooperate with an outside firm unless they were specifically required by the university. This sounds like the school hired a firm after the Matt Weise incident and hamburger gate to see what the hell is going on.
- Michigan insider and historian John U. Bacon said yesterday the leaks are coming from their very own Jim Stapleton who has a long hatred of Jim Harbaugh. Stapleton works for the NCAA.
- The Michigan boards are saying that AD Warde Manuel is good friends with leaker Jim Stapleton. The Michigan boards are alleging that Stapleton and Manuel was seen out to dinner and hanging out for the recent Indiana game.
If true, that’s some elevated level of raw hatred of Harbaugh if you’re willing to destroy the program to get rid of him.
Unless there's no punishment and they just push out Harbaugh.
I'm not sure why everyone seems to think there's going to be major or even real sanctions. Ask yourself when is the last time the NCAA did anything.
If the allegations are true there should be real sanctions but no one actually wants that. It doesn't benefit the NCAA or Big Ten. The NCAA is terrified that if they show any authority they'll cease to exist...at least in football
well, we saw that with Paterno.
But back to UM, I doubt anyone at UM did this to rat out Harbaugh. This is UM's year and they are laser-focused on a natty. Wait until after the year is over.
Possibly, but the flaw in your logic, and theirs, and that of virtually everyone who places a plan into action with a desired limited result is that they are unable to control the scope of the following actions. Even when dealing with something as toothless as the NCAA. As the Bard of Avon said “The best laid plans of mice and men”.
Wow. the Washington Post says an outside firm found evidence and turned it over to the NCAA. This included documents and video evidence that the coaches accessed. This would mean that the entire staff knew and participated.
Secondly, there are reports that Michigan helped other teams in order to "impede the playoff path" of teams UM didn't want to have in the playoffs. I am not sure I believe this one but if true, wow!
"Among the pieces of evidence the outside law firm presented was a detailed schedule of Michigan’s planned sign-stealing travel for the rest of this season, which games Michigan scouts would attend, and how much money was budgeted for travel and tickets."
Secondly, there are reports that Michigan helped other teams in order to "impede the playoff path" of teams UM didn't want to have in the playoffs. I am not sure I believe this one but if true, wow!
"Among the pieces of evidence the outside law firm presented was a detailed schedule of Michigan’s planned sign-stealing travel for the rest of this season, which games Michigan scouts would attend, and how much money was budgeted for travel and tickets."
I probably worded my comment poorly. I’m certain that the destruction of UM football wasn’t their goal. But as I stated in another post, sometimes things don’t go as smoothly as planned. Perhaps all that happens is that Harbaugh disappears. Perhaps Harbaugh disappears with limited collateral to UM Football. Perhaps the damage is greater. My point is that the initiators can’t always control the outcome.
Good point--only I'm not sure they won't control it. They shouldn't but we shall see. They did last time when they suspended Harbaugh to start the year.
Personally I believe that the BIG 10 should take immediate action. We are talking about the integrity of the entire league, with it's highest revenue generating sport and it's national perception. If they take a 'nothing to see here' attitude, it's not a good look when you're courting teams like Notre Dame, along with the newly added PAC 12 teams.
I’m interested to know who hired this outside firm?
The Pac XII teams are joining because of $$$$ and I highly doubt they'd want their league punishing them before a complete investigation was completed. I get your point about integrity of competition but no one wants a rush to judgment. We need to let it play out then we can complain when nothing happens about it. Or nothing real
Apparently the sign stealing did affect the actual games. "Dawand Jones said seeing Michigan's players lined up pre-snap while knowing what was coming was "a little demoralizing." https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ot...sw?cvid=278502160f994932a63960934e1b53de&ei=3
Whoever ever it was better be destroying the paper trail to hide his identity before the next UM booster club meeting. 😀😃😄😁😆
Latest posts
-
-
-
Huhn and Mickens: already committed for 2026! Nice start- Latest: Dylan Callaghan-Croley
-
-
Will this be the year we start bringing in offensive 5 stars again?- Latest: Sportfan2017