My main complaint so far......

[Texas Lion]

I just saw a picture from an Instagram that shows the team celebrating and dancing in the locker room. I could clearly see Journey Brown in the picture looking like he is having a blast.

My question is this: if the team is 7-0 and the RB's we are talking about don't have a problem with it.....why does everyone else?

 

[royboy]

UM took the DL out of the game and others are starting to. You can't get to the QB in under 1.5 seconds, don't care who you are. UM was giving Patterson easy throws and the DB's and LB's need to diagnose it and tackle better.

UM stretched the field horizontally with quick outside passes and then found holes in the middle also.

 

[RLCookie]

I just saw a picture from an Instagram that shows the team celebrating and dancing in the locker room. I could clearly see Journey Brown in the picture looking like he is having a blast.

My question is this: if the team is 7-0 and the RB's we are talking about don't have a problem with it.....why does everyone else?

Just because Journey Brown is having a blast how do you know Noah Cain is? Journey Brown should be happy.

 

[RLCookie]

When did we have a comfortable lead against Pitt? When it was 7-0 or 17-10? Because those were our only two leads in the game.

You're correct, we didn't exactly "Let Pitt back in" but would you agree it shouldn't have been as close as it was? We should have put them away earlier and not had that scare at the end of the game.

I want more games like Maryland where we clearly kept our foot on the gas.

 

[dontgojoepa]

It's obvious that no matter what scheme Penn State runs, if it's not a 59-0 blowout there will be fans that complain. If we would've tried to establish the run more than we did and fed the ball to Cain 10-15 times more than we did, there would be fans complaining (probably rightfully) why we abandoned the deep ball to Hamler or Dotson or Freiermuth when that was the only thing working and Michigan was trying to cover the receivers one on one throughout the game.

It's been said tirelessly on this board, but it's not the scheme or "lack of identity" that was the problem in the second half of the UM game. It was the execution. You had 2 deep balls to Dotson (who had a step on his man), two other deep balls to Hamler (one which bounced off his helmet), a long td return by Hamler, an overthrown pass to Freiermuth -- half of which, if executed properly or not overturned by penalties, results in a blowout for Penn State. UM was giving us the long ball all day. Our scheme/identity is to take what the defense gives, not to establish a run game despite the fact that that would've played right into the teeth of UM's defense.

 

[cjrugger]

I'm thrilled we are 7-0. I'm enjoying the ride and nobody is having more fun than I am. I love the heart of this team. They are playing loose and they are fun to watch.

With that being said, I don't like the fact that we establish comfortable leads and then let teams back into games, it's bitten us in the ass before and it will bite us in the ass again. We did it this week, we did it last week, we did it against Pitt. We did it last year, the year before that etc, etc. Sometimes we win those games but other times we lose them, it is frustrating and it keeps occurring over and over again. Yes you can site examples of other teams doing this occasionally but name another team that consistently does this like we do. It's a problem and it needs to be addressed.

You might want to blame it on the officials, or it's the other team making adjustments. That's just excuses, when we get a team down, put them away!

You're definitely right. We should go up 14-0 in 1st quarter, 28-0 in the 2nd, 42-0 in the 3rd and the win 56-0. That's what all great teams do and that way we won't lose any games. Appreciate the insight big guy!

 

[AWS1022]

When did we have a comfortable lead against Pitt? When it was 7-0 or 17-10? Because those were our only two leads in the game.

We also didn’t have a real comfortable lead against Iowa. And I would go as far as saying that 21-0 early in a football game is not a comfortable lead....maybe if you’re up three TD’s late in the game, but when there’s nearly three quarters to play, it’s hardly comfortable.

 

[RLCookie]

We also didn’t have a real comfortable lead against Iowa. And I would go as far as saying that 21-0 early in a football game is not a comfortable lead....maybe if you’re up three TD’s late in the game, but when there’s nearly three quarters to play, it’s hardly comfortable.

If you're leading by 21 early in the game you shouldn't be hanging on a goal line stand at the end, and it certainly shouldn't be a reoccurring theme.

But you guys are right, I must have been watching a different team the last few years as Penn State never gets a team down and then lets them back in the game at the end.

 

[MJG-90]

You're correct, we didn't exactly "Let Pitt back in" but would you agree it shouldn't have been as close as it was? We should have put them away earlier and not had that scare at the end of the game.

It would have been nice. But Pitt has a solid defense. I've been watching their games when possible. They are not as terrible as we want them to be.

I want more games like Maryland where we clearly kept our foot on the gas.

Don't we all? Too bad that's not how it works. Other teams have talent. And sometimes that talent creates matchup problems for us.

And I would go as far as saying that 21-0 early in a football game is not a comfortable lead....maybe if you’re up three TD’s late in the game, but when there’s nearly three quarters to play, it’s hardly comfortable.

If you're leading by 21 early in the game you shouldn't be hanging on a goal line stand at the end, and it certainly shouldn't be a reoccurring theme.

Remember when we were down 21 points to Wisconsin late in the first half? How many here thought that game was over? I know I didn't stop watching. Just like I didn't think that game was over, I also didn't think Michigan would just fold and start thinking about next year's revenge tour.

 

[cjrugger]

If you're leading by 21 early in the game you shouldn't be hanging on a goal line stand at the end, and it certainly shouldn't be a reoccurring theme.

But you guys are right, I must have been watching a different team the last few years as Penn State never gets a team down and then lets them back in the game at the end.

9/3/16 Clemson 19- Auburn 13 Clemson was up 19-6 with the ball with under 5 minutes left. Had to survive a throw to the end zone as time expired. Inexcusable https://www.espn.com/college-football/playbyplay?gameId=400868971

10/1/16 Clemson 42 Louisville 36 Clemson was up 28-10 at half but inexcusable gave up 26 straight points to Louisville. Down 36-28 they had to comeback to win 42-36. Terrible job by Dabo https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/400869453

10/15/16 Clemson 24 NC State 17 OT Clemson has to go to overtime with an eventually 7-6 NC State team. Never lead by more than 7 at home. Embarrassing, should have put their foot down https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/400869462

11/12/16 Pitt 43 Clemson 42 Can't even imagine what you would say about this one

12/3/16 Clemson 42 VT 35 Up 35-14 in the 3rd quarter, Clemson can't put away the Hokies and have to get an INT in the red zone with 1 minute left to escape with a win. Terrible job by Dabo

10/13/17 Syracuse 27 Clemson 24 Syracuse loses their next 5 to go 4-8

11/4/17 Clemson 38 NC State 31 Up 31-21 in the 4th, Clemson needs an INT in the red zone to avoid disaster. Come on Dabo

9/8/18 Clemson 28 Texas AM 26 Up 28-13 in the 4th, Clemson has to stop a 2 point conversion with 40 seconds left to avoid the meltdown disaster. Becoming a trend! Dabo needs to change his system

9/29/18 Clemson 27 Syracuse 23 Dabo doesnt have the team 'ready to play' and goes down 16-7 at half. Need a furious rally and TD with 30 seconds left to steal the win. Time to fire some coordinators by now, right??

 

[dbsteel]

There is nothing wrong with keeping them happy and fresh. They all have talent. I don't want to hear the words "transfer portal"associated with any of their names.

Besides- this team isn't going undefeated. Its not happening. They are going to lose two games min. So lets just enjoy how they are improving.

 

[PSU87]

If you're leading by 21 early in the game you shouldn't be hanging on a goal line stand at the end, and it certainly shouldn't be a reoccurring theme.

But you guys are right, I must have been watching a different team the last few years as Penn State never gets a team down and then lets them back in the game at the end.

Why? The other team has good players and is trying to win the game as well. They just took longer to figure out what worked.

Let me ask you this....if the scoring had gone like this

7-0
14-0
14-7
14-14
21-14
21-21
28-21

Would you feel differently about the game? Sure sounds like you would.

If we went down 21-0 and won 28-21 I'm guessing people would be thrilled.

I'm not sure why we are so hung up on the order that the points get scored in.

 

[KnightSlayer]

There is nothing wrong with keeping them happy and fresh. They all have talent. I don't want to hear the words "transfer portal"associated with any of their names.

Besides- this team isn't going undefeated. Its not happening. They are going to lose two games min. So lets just enjoy how they are improving.

Okay, Nostradumbass.

 

[Jerry]

So do you think we should change the offensive system mid season or ride it out? And what would our record be this season with this other magical system you have in mind?

Everyone is thrilled with 7-0 and a top-6 ranking. And most people are more than happy with JF. How could you not be? Rahne, on the other hand, still takes flack, but not from me. In fact, I think the criticism directed his way is overdone.

But it's one thing to bitch about everything all the time as happened last year (and seemingly every year) after some tough losses when a lot of people lost any kind of perspective -- as fans tend to do.

It's another thing to offer reasonable and constructive opinions. Here's one: we don't beat Michigan State if the offense gains fewer than 100 yards on the ground and runs 30 plays fewer than the Spartans as happened against Michigan.

Fortunately, we don't need to "change the offense" or conjure up any sort of "magical system." All that's needed is the game we brought to Iowa one week ago and which might have put Michigan away after we got the big lead.

That was a balanced offense with 180 yards on the ground, 100 of them by Cain in 20 carries, a time-of-possession edge, and a consequently fresh defense that held up the whole night. By all means, keep taking shots downfield to KJ...and throw to your star TE as well.

All this said, I'll be happy with any kind of win in East Lansing. Ugly. Beautiful. Lucky. Undeserved. 100 yards on the ground. 400 yards on the ground. I don't give a fig. Just come out of there with the W, baby.

 

[dontgojoepa]

Fortunately, we don't need to "change the offense" or conjure up any sort of "magical system." All that's needed is the game we brought to Iowa one week ago and which might have put Michigan away after we got the big lead.

The game we brought to Iowa was crafted for Iowa. The game we brought to UM was crafted for UM. And the game we bring to MSU should be crafted for MSU. We had a more "balanced" offense against Iowa because their defense was to keep everything in front of them and make us earn our way down the field (typical bend but don't break). So we had runs and lots of short passes -- nothing deep.

UM's defense was to stop the run, use the LBs for run support and for intermediate pass protection, and leave their defensive backs on an island against our wide receivers. If we used the offense we used for Iowa against UM, we probably lose.

 

[PSUcup1]

Rahne is not God's Gift to play calling but he isn't Jay Paterno either....My main complaint is that he becomes very predictable by abandoning the run.
We are up 21-0 on Saturday, we get the ball, and 3 straight passes, time to punt. If it was a one time thing, no big deal, but seems to be a consistent pattern.
I understand the philosophy of the RPO is to take what the defense gives you......That being said, we can run on defenses that are predisposed to stop the run. We have successfully run out the clock on two straight games now, and everyone in the house knew it was going to be a running play. If you can run in that situation, you can run in any situation.

I am not yearning for the old days of run run run. However, you need to keep the D honest...

this is spot on IMO

 

[cjrugger]

Everyone is thrilled with 7-0 and a top-6 ranking. And most people are more than happy with JF. How could you not be?

They're really not. Take a look around the board

 

[MJG-90]

That being said, we can run on defenses that are predisposed to stop the run. We have successfully run out the clock on two straight games now, and everyone in the house knew it was going to be a running play.

Including the offensive line. I have been defending the staff vehemently in this thread. But this brings up a potentially valid question. How many running plays do we run that are strictly running plays -- no RPO, no option between the QB and RB, just a straight up handoff, whether delayed or not? Presumably the runs at the end of the game were known to be running plays by the o-line pre snap. That gives them the knowledge that it's okay to bulldoze their guy without needing to worry it might be a pass play. I think that's fair to ask at least.

 

[Texas Lion]

Including the offensive line. I have been defending the staff vehemently in this thread. But this brings up a potentially valid question. How many running plays do we run that are strictly running plays -- no RPO, no option between the QB and RB, just a straight up handoff, whether delayed or not? Presumably the runs at the end of the game were known to be running plays by the o-line pre snap. That gives them the knowledge that it's okay to bulldoze their guy without needing to worry it might be a pass play. I think that's fair to ask at least.

Fair and very valid question. In fact I will go as far as saying that it looks like most of Cain's carries are straight run....watch the blocking, they seem to fire out more....

Not saying Cain isn't great but our OL can regular run block pretty darn well.

 

[dbsteel]

Okay, Nostradumbass.

Thanks for chiming in moron. Come back in 6 weeks.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

The RPO identity is to adjust to the defense. It's not run or pass centric by scheme. It's identity is RPO. Love it or hate it, they're 7 - 0.

Well Rhane did consistently get the man-on-man matchup he was looking for on Hamler with his formations (not just well over 100 yards receiving for Hammler, but 2 long TD passes where Hamler was running free more than 5 yards behind the defense...) - so there's that.

 

[psuro]

I didn't read through all the posts, so sorry if this was already asked and answered:

Didn't Georgia and Alabama over the last few years play with multiple running backs and achieve a fair amount of success? Not sure if they played four, or three, but I do know that (at least) these two teams played multiple backs...and were fairly successful. And the backs were all pretty good.

 

[sluggo72]

I didn't read through all the posts, so sorry if this was already asked and answered:

Didn't Georgia and Alabama over the last few years play with multiple running backs and achieve a fair amount of success? Not sure if they played four, or three, but I do know that (at least) these two teams played multiple backs...and were fairly successful. And the backs were all pretty good.

before we get too far into the weeds, do you mean on the field at one time (tic) or as a rotation (which I think you mean). IIRC at least GA had a 3 man rotation when the kid from Philly was a frosh, and he was part of it.

 

[psuro]

before we get too far into the weeds, do you mean on the field at one time (tic) or as a rotation (which I think you mean). IIRC at least GA had a 3 man rotation when the kid from Philly was a frosh, and he was part of it.

"Ro"tation

 

[SR108]

......is this 4 RB rotation/refusal to establish a running game! We’re 28 quarters into this season, and have ZERO identity on offense!


I do not know whose decision this is(assuming JF, or hopefully soon to be unemployed Rahne), But it needs to end soon.

Your job as a coach is not to make sure of who’s feelings do or don’t get hurt but rather to win football games.

The constant switching of running backs lead to zero running game consistency/zero offensive cohesion!!

In the UM game the running backs carried ONLY 13 times for 87 yards!

That’s 6.7 yds/carry

I’ll repeat that, our RBs averaged 6.7 yards yet only were fed the ball to them 13 times.

Even in his post/game Press conference, JF couldn’t even answer the question as to why this happened.

The lack of consistency of a running game/rotation of running backs is causing the offense to get into lulls these lulls are causing consecutive Three and outs. These consecutive three and outs are causing the defense to be on the field much more, and having more plays ran against them(As witnessed by the 30+ play disparity between the two teams this past Saturday).

In turn, our D is getting gassed!

If these run issues Aren’t fixed soon, it may cost us a loss as early as this week, and getting boat raced in Columbus.

For the record, I’m NOT a fan of Rahne. We win the close games in spite of his play calling, not because of it!


Honestly, that’s my main complaint, the rest is just nitpicking(no pun intended).


Now a small sample of the positives:

-We’re 7-0

-The D is the best I have seen in sometime!

-The offense has been doing a really good job of protecting the football.

-We’ve closed out 2 close games in a row with our offense on the field, NOT our defense!

-The depth of this team on both sides of the ball is tremendous!


That’s all I got!

Lemme have it!

I really have no complaints.
I am pleased and happy with 7-0 going into East Lansing with a young team that learns something from each game. At some point you have to trust that the coaches know what they are doing and have good reasons for doing what they are doing. To me it's a real positive that the team has room for growth with five games remaining, three of which precede the Ohio State Game.

 

[Judge Smails]

Also like many others I'm confused by our play calling. We started the game with a run to the wide side of the field, it went for 12 yards. On the next play we threw the ball. We didn't come back to that running play again until the first play of the second half.

Most plays have a run/pass option that is determined by the QB reading the defense.

 

[palmettolion]

It's been said tirelessly on this board, but it's not the scheme or "lack of identity" that was the problem in the second half of the UM game. It was the execution. You had 2 deep balls to Dotson (who had a step on his man), two other deep balls to Hamler (one which bounced off his helmet), a long td return by Hamler, an overthrown pass to Freiermuth -- half of which, if executed properly or not overturned by penalties, results in a blowout for Penn State. UM was giving us the long ball all day. Our scheme/identity is to take what the defense gives, not to establish a run game despite the fact that that would've played right into the teeth of UM's defense.

Spot on. I'll add the missed blocks by RB's and the OL and the missed reads by Clifford when he chose to hand off with an end crashing down instead of keeping. Michigan made some adjustments and our guys didn't execute properly.

 

[PSUSignore]

It's obvious that no matter what scheme Penn State runs, if it's not a 59-0 blowout there will be fans that complain. If we would've tried to establish the run more than we did and fed the ball to Cain 10-15 times more than we did, there would be fans complaining (probably rightfully) why we abandoned the deep ball to Hamler or Dotson or Freiermuth when that was the only thing working and Michigan was trying to cover the receivers one on one throughout the game.

It's been said tirelessly on this board, but it's not the scheme or "lack of identity" that was the problem in the second half of the UM game. It was the execution. You had 2 deep balls to Dotson (who had a step on his man), two other deep balls to Hamler (one which bounced off his helmet), a long td return by Hamler, an overthrown pass to Freiermuth -- half of which, if executed properly or not overturned by penalties, results in a blowout for Penn State. UM was giving us the long ball all day. Our scheme/identity is to take what the defense gives, not to establish a run game despite the fact that that would've played right into the teeth of UM's defense.

I largely agree that we have some execution misses at times. And that's completely expected with a young team. What annoys me is that when we don't execute people still seem to blame Rahne. If he's getting players in position to make plays and we don't make them, then Rahne is doing his job with respect to calling plays. As you correctly pointed out, there were several missed opportunities vs. UM and if those all worked out we'd have boat-raced UM and we'd be dancing in the streets all week.

Prior to the season my hope was a 2 loss season, many others predicted a 3-4 loss season given our youth on offense. My path to 2 losses was to be 5-0 going into the tough stretch of Iowa, UM, MSU. We did that. Then I hoped we'd win 2 of the 3. We've already done that with a chance to win all 3. I figured we'd lose one of those and @ tOSU. This team has a legit shot to beat everyone on the schedule but tOSU will be a tough one. But at this point a 1 loss season looks very attainable, the team is ahead of where almost all of us thought they might be yet still the fans are restless. Sometimes I think we have the most negative fans in the country. I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride, right now we are playing with house money.

 

[psuro]

I largely agree that we have some execution misses at times. And that's completely expected with a young team. What annoys me is that when we don't execute people still seem to blame Rahne. If he's getting players in position to make plays and we don't make them, then Rahne is doing his job. As you correctly pointed out, there were several missed opportunities vs. UM and if those all worked out we'd have boat-raced UM and we'd be dancing in the streets all week.

Prior to the season my hope was a 2 loss season, many others predicted a 3-4 loss season given our youth on offense. My path to 2 losses was to be 5-0 going into the tough stretch of Iowa, UM, MSU. We did that. Then I hoped we'd win 2 of the 3. We've already done that with a chance to win all 3. I figured we'd lose one of those and @ tOSU. This team has a legit shot to beat everyone on the schedule but tOSU will be a tough one. But at this point a 1 loss season looks very attainable, the team is ahead of where almost all of us thought they might be yet still the fans are restless. Sometimes I think we have the most negative fans in the country. I'm sitting back and enjoying the ride, right now we are playing with house money.

I predicted 0-12, so I am really ahead of the game.

 

[fizzyskittles]

It would have been nice. But Pitt has a solid defense. I've been watching their games when possible. They are not as terrible as we want them to be.



Don't we all? Too bad that's not how it works. Other teams have talent. And sometimes that talent creates matchup problems for us.





Remember when we were down 21 points to Wisconsin late in the first half? How many here thought that game was over? I know I didn't stop watching. Just like I didn't think that game was over, I also didn't think Michigan would just fold and start thinking about next year's revenge tour.

this part, these fans don't say we got lucky against a team when we were down 21 points but stress when the other teams climbs back in it. And i'll add that Wisconsin game was a conference championship game.

 

[Petch]

W

Bro, chill!!!!
Read my above post! I’m ecstatic we’re 7-0.
All I’m saying is that we’ve won 3 razor-thin game in spite of our offensive identity, NOT because of it!
I’ll take 12-0 in steam with no offense over 10-2 with a great offense.
I just think that this current philosophy is gonna get us burned in an upcoming away game.

Well...we’ve lost the last couple of years because we didn’t have the ability to close out a potential game-winning drive. Maybe the 4 TB monster is keeping everyone fresh, so that come crunch time, all of our guys have their legs against a worn down D.

So far so good this year.

 

[IANit]

......is this 4 RB rotation/refusal to establish a running game! We’re 28 quarters into this season, and have ZERO identity on offense!


I do not know whose decision this is(assuming JF, or hopefully soon to be unemployed Rahne), But it needs to end soon.

Your job as a coach is not to make sure of who’s feelings do or don’t get hurt but rather to win football games.

The constant switching of running backs lead to zero running game consistency/zero offensive cohesion!!

In the UM game the running backs carried ONLY 13 times for 87 yards!

That’s 6.7 yds/carry

I’ll repeat that, our RBs averaged 6.7 yards yet only were fed the ball to them 13 times.

Even in his post/game Press conference, JF couldn’t even answer the question as to why this happened.

The lack of consistency of a running game/rotation of running backs is causing the offense to get into lulls these lulls are causing consecutive Three and outs. These consecutive three and outs are causing the defense to be on the field much more, and having more plays ran against them(As witnessed by the 30+ play disparity between the two teams this past Saturday).

In turn, our D is getting gassed!

If these run issues Aren’t fixed soon, it may cost us a loss as early as this week, and getting boat raced in Columbus.

For the record, I’m NOT a fan of Rahne. We win the close games in spite of his play calling, not because of it!


Honestly, that’s my main complaint, the rest is just nitpicking(no pun intended).


Now a small sample of the positives:

-We’re 7-0

-The D is the best I have seen in sometime!

-The offense has been doing a really good job of protecting the football.

-We’ve closed out 2 close games in a row with our offense on the field, NOT our defense!

-The depth of this team on both sides of the ball is tremendous!


That’s all I got!

Lemme have it!

7-0 with 2 wins over Top 25 teams so far. That is all.

 

[IANit]

UM took the DL out of the game and others are starting to. You can't get to the QB in under 1.5 seconds, don't care who you are. UM was giving Patterson easy throws and the DB's and LB's need to diagnose it and tackle better.

Maybe they were easy throws, but I've seen Patterson look pretty mediocre before. He played about as well as I've seen him play - he actually looked like the 5-star he was out of high school. We'll see if it was our D or his play elevating in a couple of days.