New building on campus (link)

[wilbury]

Someone spent considerable time on that analysis THREE years ago - when the project was in the design and development stage.
That is the time when the situation should have been addressed.

No one else cared.

Do you think the folks leading your University should care? IDK
If so, there are things you can do about it.

Yes and no. Someone at Penn State approved a budget for this project long before they started to design it.

 

[SLUPSU]

Online inflation calculators are extremely oversimplified. Was the lab you worked on 20+ years ago designed specifically for Chemical Engineering? If it was, has the cost in changing needs for a chem lab followed the same track as your online inflation calculator. Are the percentage of lab vs. office vs. classroom the same? Are the overall total sqft comparable? Are the site restrictions the same? Where was your lab located? Was your lab required to be designed to LEED Gold criteria? There are so many variable that to simply take the cost of one lab building, run it through an oversimplified inflation adjuster and compare it to one lab building built 20+ years later for your reasonable comparison is assuming a hell of a lot of similarities.

I'm all for scrutinizing costs, but you might want to start comparing to other labs (plural) designed for a similar use that are being built today.

I get it what you're saying, what I'm trying to tell you is my building was state of the art at the time and high end (expensive) for collegiate lab facility. The building was for a medical school and was about 200ksf, I gave you information based on personal experience for comparison's sake. The lab space made up a majority of the building space because many of the classrooms were the labs. The exhaust system was enormous with four large exhaust fans connected to 8' diameter stainless steel ductwork. Throughout the building there were dozens of fume hoods and dozens of pressure controlled rooms with an extremely complex temperature control system. One entire floor (~67ksf not included in the 200ksf) of the building was dedicated for mechanical and electrical equipment. The site was not too complex but the foundation was, caissons drilled into karst topography, so they were wide, 3'-6' dia, and deep, 40-80', therefore very expensive. LEED didn't exist back then and it was built in another state where construction costs are 10-15% less.

I don't have to assume many similarities, the primary assumption I made was that my building was at the top end of estimated costs. Anything not similar would make PSU's building look even more expensive. I used a standard inflation calculator, construction inflation is higher than that, I realize that and that can bring the numbers closer to each other.

For the purposes of a message board conversation I stand by the numbers and that they are reasonable. Your earlier post you made a weak analogy that my situation was like comparing a 20 yr old station wagon to an excavator today. It more like comparing 20 yr old excavator to new excavator today. Your post suggests that you have knowledge of construction or design but it looks to me like you're just trying to nitpick here.

 

[CF LION]

Within the PSU building:

Approximately 20,000 sq ft of the building is Lab Space (a rather small percentage of the building).
About 4,000 sq ft +/- on the Basement level, and on the 2nd through 5th floors.

Overwhelmingly, with a few exceptions, that Lab Space is pretty much OOD standard stuff most anyone who ever took a chemistry class or worked in a related field can imagine - all shiny and new, of course.


Anyone who sees this building and thinks it is anywhere close to a “$144,000,000” project is outside of his or her mind.
End of story.

It’s been a while since Ive been on campus....does this building occupy the footprint of the old Fenske Lab and/or other buildings? If so, then demo costs, a phased construction approach, creating swing space, migrating labs and other functions would be part of the cost I assume. Also, does the $144M include FF&E?

My company does a lot of hospital design work, and all of the things I mentioned add significantly to the cost of a project. Not making a case one way or the other, but when I see budgets and costs presented with little detail I start to ask questions.

 

[PSUMATT85]

So....

Because it was needed (which, FWIW, no one agrees with more than I):
It is fine to pay $150 Million for a $90 Million job?



Would it be better to have, Option 1, THIS Building:

Or, Option 2, to have THIS Building:

AND:

Funds available to endow 80 permanent Scholarships for top notch students to study in it....

OR:

Funds available to endow a dozen Full-time Faculty positions to teach them?



Are you saying you would choose Option 1?
Granted, with Option 1 you DO get the benefits of $60 million of graft and waste to entice "World Class" leadership to serve on your Board of Governance.... and all of the ancillary benefits provided therein.

No argument

Just stating the building was needed.does look like we overpaid, like everything else

 

[SLUPSU]

It’s been a while since Ive been on campus....does this building occupy the footprint of the old Fenske Lab and/or other buildings? If so, then demo costs, a phased construction approach, creating swing space, migrating labs and other functions would be part of the cost I assume. Also, does the $144M include FF&E?

My company does a lot of hospital design work, and all of the things I mentioned add significantly to the cost of a project. Not making a case one way or the other, but when I see budgets and costs presented with little detail I start to ask questions.

I had none of those issues to deal with my project, you could probably add asbestos and lead abatement costs to the possible equation. I was dealing with a sloping site, which added cost for a lower level 20' tall retaining wall and the associated excavation and thousands of yard of off-site spoil.

It is also possible that the costs of additional staffing was built into the PSU budget.

 

[step.eng69]

I would love to take a survey - to see how many of them could even define exactly what they mean every time they use the term

Obviously......

 

[SLUPSU]

You might be surprised at how basic most of the building is.
Aside from a low-vibration space (constructed for BioMed applications) there is not anything there that would likely meet the expectations of “exotic purposes” that some may envision.


The large majority of it? From a functionality standpoint?
Think Borland Lab space, and your standard issue cubbyhole offices...... all new, clean, and shiny, of course (if you’ve ever been in the Smeal office wing, you’ve seen it already)

I found this information from 2018 which suggests that the square footage quoted in the OP's linked article of 109,000 is not accurate (or maybe there another phase yet to be built?) This information says it's 194,500 square feet.

Maybe you can relax a bit... lol

https://www.bme.psu.edu/news/2018/New-building-highlights.aspx

 

[SLUPSU]

Really? I wasn’t aware of those discrepancies?


FWIW - as I expect you are aware - there are many ways to quote sq footage ...... exterior footprint, interior, usable footage, etc.
Penn State has certainly never been consistent or specific...... nor have any of the decision makers even inquired as to WTF they are voting on - - - which is simply a stunning, and inexcusable, level of adamant ignorance.

I am aware of what each - footprint, interior, usable - is for this project (at least a reasonable estimate of each). That’s because I take the time and effort to actually know WTF I am commenting about

FWIW: By no measure is it the 194,000 sq ft that was presented as the metric when the $$$ was allocated by the BOT..... nor did any member of the Board even ask any questions about WTF they were being asked to spend the $$$ on.
For those who might be interested, the interior footage is about 120,000 sq ft...... the usable is probably about 75-80,000 (depending on how one wants to classify some specific corridors)

As I mentioned way back when - this is not only a project that I have followed closely since it was an “idea”, but I have also been through the various aspects of the building as completed.
Aside from the engineers and the contractors..... probably more so than anyone else.

It is what it is.

(FWIW, wrt your thought, no - there is not another “phase” to come. This is it)

Yup..... there plenty of opportunity for game playing with square footages when you're trying to sell a project and the ones your selling the budget to don't usually know the right questions to ask.

The 120ksf figure you cited, is that net or gross square footage....lol

 

[SLUPSU]

I believe I noted what it was.... “interior sq footage”. (Which, for those who are not familiar, is essentially your “usable space” - offices, classrooms, labs etc - PLUS spaces like stairwells and corridors)

No... interior square footage can be defined as net or gross, gross is typically 10-15% higher, it includes the space taken by the thickness of walls.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

I don’t think psu is always fiscally responsible, but fenske was well beyond its useful life for quite some time. Glad this was done

Yes. It was ancient and kind of a dump. Are EE East and EE West still standing? Those are also completely ancient at this point.

 

[Media Fan]

Yes, PSU loves any out-of-state students. PSU would have gone under many times over if not for wealthy New Jersey parents willing to pay exorbitant out of state tuition with no financial aid.

The most despicable thing about all this is that it's largely driven by US News rankings -- which reward colleges with higher rankings essentially for spending money. The more PSU spends on buildings, the higher their US News rank. The higher tuition PSU charges, the higher their US News rank. And international students -- from wealthy Asian families, mostly -- love those US News rankings.

Someday I would love to hear how all this squares with the Morrill Act, which established land-grand universities:

"without excluding other scientific and classical studies and including military tactic, to teach such branches of learning as are related to agriculture and the mechanic arts, in such manner as the legislatures of the States may respectively prescribe, in order to promote the liberal and practical education of the industrial classes in the several pursuits and professions in life"

In my lifetime, PSU has completely abdicated its mission to provide education of any sort to the "industrial classes." These days PSU is aiming more for the children of Saudi sheiks and Chinese politburo members and New York hedge fund managers.

As noted a number of times, and as measured by USNews, PSU academic profile has fallen like a rock.
I can think of at least 3 reasons, some unmentionable.
Disgraceful management.

 

[BobPSU92]

I hate us.

 

[Whaaaaaaaany]

Should have had some AE's take a look at the plans