NLWC on Rofkin

[Sportfan2017]

I could tell you what the plan is, but i need permission from Ag first.

I have absolutely no inside information.........BUT.........I had this weird vision last night that after winning his match on October 3rd......He announced on FLO that he will be attending Penn State. The craziest part is that I hadn't had a drink yet.

 

[Ja1339]

I have absolutely no inside information.........BUT.........I had this weird vision last night that after winning his match on October 3rd......He announced on FLO that he will be attending Penn State. The craziest part is that I hadn't had a drink yet.

Be hard for Figs to say no to PSU after watching the amazing talent at NLWC, right? That, and well, if Cael wants you, he doesn’t take no for an answer. 😆

 

[backdrft76]

Cael seems a bit unhappy. What exactly happened?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

So far, the matches do not seem to be available for replay. I would note that replays of matches covered by Flo are almost immediately available for replay.

In contrast to the lack of coverage of the NLWC event anticipated by some, Flo did a recap on each match including a compliment about the event.

Rokfin is a different animal from Flo. It appears that the content and subsequent availability are provided by the individuals who contract with the platform. So, this event was completely in the hands of NLWC. They are not going to have the professionals or the resources to provide the same level of service as Flo.

This is not a complaint about NLWC's coverage or the event itself. I enjoyed every second of the second half of the event that I caught live. But, I do think that the Flo naysayers need to recognize Flo's capabilities and its contribution to the sport.

A clear, uninterrupted stream trumps all other nitpicking - especially since replays will be available soon. What’s the point of paying to watch live if you get interrupted almost every time?
As for Flo recognizing the event, since their previous policy of outright ignoring events was bringing down waves of ridicule, they finally reversed course. I’m glad a grown up was able to win the day.

 

[AgSurfer]

I could tell you what the plan is, but i need permission from Ag first.

All you need to do is find out what Richie wore to school this day.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Cael seems a bit unhappy. What exactly happened?

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Looks like he’s mad at IaWrestle - using event to snag subscribers

 

[El-Jefe]

All you need to do is find out what Richie wore to school this day.

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Crap, he's flipping to Sac State.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Fair amount of crying about this by Pokes fans on twitter and their near-dead board.

Of course they all bought the bogus Fix story hook, line and sinker

 

[jrod65]

Looks like he’s mad at IaWrestle - using event to snag subscribers

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2 things:

1st, Cael reads HR(screenshot was a HR post)... I wonder what his username is.

2nd,

Would there be a viable option for Rokfin to set up a one-time payment or "event fee"? Look at it as purchasing a single ticket vs monthly membership. Perhaps have it cost 1/2 as much as the monthly premium to draw in the consumer that is only interested in viewing the specific event, not necessarily wanting to follow a specific content provider.

The proceeds from those logging in for just the "event" could then go directly to the host. Should be easy enough to set up, right?

To help avoid confusion/poaching by other content providers, make it as easy as possible for new/one time users to find the events section and link online. I'm talking like 2 clicks and they are in kind of thing.

Thoughts?

 

[El-Jefe]

Fair amount of crying about this by Pokes fans on twitter and their near-dead board.

Of course they all bought the bogus Fix story hook, line and sinker

Perhaps it's time for a new board label ...

"THE gathering place for all fans of John Smith's dominant wrestling program, which will shoot for five national titles in a row in 2007. "

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Fair amount of crying about this by Pokes fans on twitter and their near-dead board.

Of course they all bought the bogus Fix story hook, line and sinker

I'll have to take a look.

Edit: @Chickenman Testa
Well played comment over there. 🤣

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Crap, he's flipping to Sac State.

His shirt is funnier.

 

[nerfstate]

Fair amount of crying about this by Pokes fans on twitter and their near-dead board.

Of course they all bought the bogus Fix story hook, line and sinker

What are they crying about?

 

[Chickenman Testa]

What are they crying about?

Rokfin event was 3hr commercial for Penn State
A powerful RTC is cheating - OSU shys away from building theirs up because of a fear of NCAA crackdown
Etc

This guy’s a good example

 

[El-Jefe]

Rokfin event was 3hr commercial for Penn State
A powerful RTC is cheating - OSU shys away from building theirs up because of a fear of NCAA crackdown
Etc

This guy’s a good example

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"Not sure how that's legal... But whatever."

Passive-aggressive. Just like the Pokes on the mat.

That guy's a real piece of work -- the reason OKST doesn't have a real RTC is because they fear the NCAA ... Do we really need to list all of the schools besides PSU that aren't similarly hindered? For example, their in-state Bedlam rival that poached Tan Tom's top assistant specifically to build an RTC.

 

[nerfstate]

Rokfin event was 3hr commercial for Penn State
A powerful RTC is cheating - OSU shys away from building theirs up because of a fear of NCAA crackdown
Etc

This guy’s a good example

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Oh, well then. I encourage them to stand firm in their ethical stance and keep their RTC as a shadow.

 

[CurtisLoew40]

The most boring Bo match ever. Honestly thought Ringer should of won because he was the more active guy throughout. I know ringer his strong as an ox but I was surprised the bigger and more athletic bo couldn't impose his will on him.

 

[osu2082]

Rokfin event was 3hr commercial for Penn State
A powerful RTC is cheating - OSU shys away from building theirs up because of a fear of NCAA crackdown
Etc

This guy’s a good example

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I think the frustration from OSU fans comes from the fact that RTC’s are at best in the extreme grey area of NCAA rules and likely a clear violation. The NCAA has yet to care or rule on them so PSU along with others have used them to their advantage. Some OSU fans are frustrated that OSU hasn’t followed suit.

It’s been a win for those programs and for USA wrestling but if a similar setup took place in a NCAA revenue generating sport the NCAA would have to step in and greatly alter it or shut it down completely but until they do so it’s hard to fault PSU and others for taking advantage.

 

[Ja1339]

"Not sure how that's legal... But whatever."

Passive-aggressive. Just like the Pokes on the mat.

That guy's a real piece of work -- the reason OKST doesn't have a real RTC is because they fear the NCAA ... Do we really need to list all of the schools besides PSU that aren't similarly hindered? For example, their in-state Bedlam rival that poached Tan Tom's top assistant specifically to build an RTC.

El Jefe, serious question and not me being a wisea$$. Isn’t not having an RTC putting the ‘pokes at a massive recruiting disadvantage to the likes of PSU/NLWC? And shouldn’t addressing that disadvantage outweigh the fears of oversight by the NCAA? TIA

 

[El-Jefe]

I think the frustration from OSU fans comes from the fact that RTC’s are at best in the extreme grey area of NCAA rules and likely a clear violation. The NCAA has yet to care or rule on them so PSU along with others have used them to their advantage. Some OSU fans are frustrated that OSU hasn’t followed suit.

It’s been a win for those programs and for USA wrestling but if a similar setup took place in a NCAA revenue generating sport the NCAA would have to step in and greatly alter it or shut it down completely but until they do so it’s hard to fault PSU and others for taking advantage.

How clear of a violation can RTCs be, since they've been around since at least Gable?

 

[El-Jefe]

El Jefe, serious question and not me being a wisea$$. Isn’t not having an RTC putting the ‘pokes at a massive recruiting disadvantage to the likes of PSU/NLWC? And shouldn’t addressing that disadvantage outweigh the fears of oversight by the NCAA? TIA

Theoretically you'd think so. But looking at the volume of top guys Smith keeps landing, it doesn't seem to be hurting his recruiting too much.

Lack of RTC might be a factor in training and thus postseason results. That's somewhat quantifiable: since 2010, OKST has outscored seeds by 0.9 pts/year -- which means they've actually underperformed since projections do not include bonus. (I'm too lazy to segregate bonus from actuals in order to do a true comparison.)

Of course, that could be a reason, but there are other potential reasons for things like that to happen: injuries, weight cuts, etc.

 

[osu2082]

How clear of a violation can RTCs be, since they've been around since at least Gable?

I think the more recent surge and makeup of them, the connections to the university, post grad employment and fund raising done by university staff are the issues. It’s not really an argument that at best they skirt the rules.

Again, until the NCAA decides to take notice I can’t blame any program for going all in on them. I think more than a recruiting advantage it’s the development of the amateur wrestling it provides is the biggest benefit.

 

[osu2082]

Theoretically you'd think so. But looking at the volume of top guys Smith keeps landing, it doesn't seem to be hurting his recruiting too much.

I don’t think recruiting is the big “advantage” those programs gain with a well funded and robust RTC. OSU has recruited very well over the last decade and at or near the top the last few years.

It’s the development that the major RTC’s provide the amateur wrestlers that is the main advantage. Look at what PSU has been able to do with their top tier recruits. A big part of that development is the RTC guys in and around the room. That is what OSU is currently missing out on.

 

[smalls103]

trust me, cael doesn't want that. it's the whole reason why the rokfin model > any other.

he's pissed at some people (and rightfully so, imo). i'm actually going to write something up about it.

 

[El-Jefe]

To elaborate further on my post above: below are all the teams which had at least 10 #1 seeds at nationals from 2010-2019. (Using #1 seeds as the filter because they cannot gain placement points.)

"Delta/Yr" is (actual points - projected pts from seed)/10 yrs.
PSU +21.6
anOSU +9.9
Cornell +7.5
OKST +0.9

Expanding the list to 10 or more top-2 seeds:
Iowa +8.2

 

[lobo lion]

I'm searching for the answer to this question as well. I don't think my wife of one week would be okay with me glued to the laptop at our hotel for 3 hours on a Saturday night. Maybe @smalls103 can help us out?

Congratulations on maintaining a marriage longer than @lionlover in any of his umpteen efforts.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

trust me, cael doesn't want that. it's the whole reason why the rokfin model > any other.

he's pissed at some people (and rightfully so, imo). i'm actually going to write something up about it.

 

[bigs22]

I would think this gets fixed. A big time event with the potential for more? They’re gonna take care of their valuable content producers.

 

[El-Jefe]

 

[west2east]

I think the frustration from OSU fans comes from the fact that RTC’s are at best in the extreme grey area of NCAA rules and likely a clear violation. The NCAA has yet to care or rule on them so PSU along with others have used them to their advantage. Some OSU fans are frustrated that OSU hasn’t followed suit.

It’s been a win for those programs and for USA wrestling but if a similar setup took place in a NCAA revenue generating sport the NCAA would have to step in and greatly alter it or shut it down completely but until they do so it’s hard to fault PSU and others for taking advantage.

It's how your compliance office interprets things.Could tell story after story about one university doing something that other universities consider wrong

 

[ClarkstonMark]

It's how your compliance office interprets things.Could tell story after story about one university doing something that other universities consider wrong

the stories aren't going to tell themselves ..... go

 

[McScoreley]

Cael is on Rokfin to grow the sport and I don't think he minds being the big fish that helps other writers make money. God knows our "slush fund" is doing fine.

What he isn't down with is other people blatantly being deceptive and siphoning money.

 

[osu2082]

It's how your compliance office interprets things.Could tell story after story about one university doing something that other universities consider wrong

I get it but it’s actually what the NCAA considers wrong and in this case they just don’t care or they don’t have the manpower to be able to allocate in monitoring, enacting change and enforcing that change. The setup is in conflict with NCAA amateurism rules.

Again, I don’t see any wrongdoing however in those schools who have gone in this direction. Nobody is telling them not to and it’s a benefit to them and the sport.

 

[nitlion6]

I get it but it’s actually what the NCAA considers wrong and in this case they just don’t care or they don’t have the manpower to be able to allocate in monitoring, enacting change and enforcing that change. The setup is in conflict with NCAA amateurism rules.

Again, I don’t see any wrongdoing however in those schools who have gone in this direction. Nobody is telling them not to and it’s a benefit to them and the sport.

I have to admit I like your persistent nature.
If it was illegal there would be plenty of folks pointing out the specific rules being broken. Look at you insisting rules are being broken, yet no clue which rule is being stepped on.
I bet you like to argue that someone driving the speed limit is speeding because you believe the posted limit is too high.

 

[Brian LB-U]

"Likely a clear violation" sounds like one of those half-pregnant type situations. Poke fans are just jealous and pissed because they don't have a RTC and they're married to Flo.

 

[west2east]

I get it but it’s actually what the NCAA considers wrong and in this case they just don’t care or they don’t have the manpower to be able to allocate in monitoring, enacting change and enforcing that change. The setup is in conflict with NCAA amateurism rules.

Again, I don’t see any wrongdoing however in those schools who have gone in this direction. Nobody is telling them not to and it’s a benefit to them and the sport.

Evolve or get left behind.Gotta build the RTC to compete for titles these days can't have guys like Ringer leaving.And I'm not a Penn St fan but how can you not appreciate what they've done.The work the staff has put in to get to this point is impressive

 

[El-Jefe]

I think the more recent surge and makeup of them, the connections to the university, post grad employment and fund raising done by university staff are the issues. It’s not really an argument that at best they skirt the rules.

Again, until the NCAA decides to take notice I can’t blame any program for going all in on them. I think more than a recruiting advantage it’s the development of the amateur wrestling it provides is the biggest benefit.

"Post grad employment" is Hawkeye Resistance level of conspiracy mongering.

It's a violation ONLY if the coach guarantees it as part of the offer/commitment. Cael Sanderson can no more guarantee Shayne Van Ness a post-graduate spot in the NLWC, than Nick Saban can guarantee Jalen Hurts he'd stay in Alabama for his entire college career. If the sniff test isn't enough proof, the Altons and Jimmy Gulibon were tremendous HS recruits who didn't get to stick around after graduation.

To veer away from PSU: Seth Gross is another good example of how such a guarantee is impossible.

 

[Raw Daddy]

Crap, he's flipping to Sac State.

My wife used to do this when I would visit her on the weekend at Clarion. Hey O!

 

[osu2082]

"Post grad employment" is Hawkeye Resistance level of conspiracy mongering.

It's a violation ONLY if the coach guarantees it as part of the offer/commitment. Cael Sanderson can no more guarantee Shayne Van Ness a post-graduate spot in the NLWC, than Nick Saban can guarantee Jalen Hurts he'd stay in Alabama for his entire college career. If the sniff test isn't enough proof, the Altons and Jimmy Gulibon were tremendous HS recruits who didn't get to stick around after graduation.

To veer away from PSU: Seth Gross is another good example of how such a guarantee is impossible.

Several aspects of the current college program and RTC partnership could be viewed as violations. If a similar setup happened in CFB or MBB the NCAA would be forced to react quickly and make significant changes or stop them altogether.

Regardless I’m not a “conspiracy” pusher or some PSU hating wrestling fan. I think OSU should follow the lead of Cael and the NLWC and build a robust RTC and continue to support it until their told they can no longer do so. It’s good for the sport of wrestling but it doesn’t change the parameters of what we are discussing.

 

[7brwnpsu]

Please help me understand how this business model works. (I'm also a subscriber of Flo). I signed up for Rokfin under the NLWC. I was thinking of keeping the subscription to see what else came over the horizon. Then Cael posted October????. So I'm definitely staying in.

My question is, does the NLWC get a cut of each month's payment in perpetuity as that who I signed up through or is it only for the one month they get a cut. I want my $$ going to the NLWC. Or do the get a cut only when they put on programming?

If two separate RTCs step up, I assume they have to shake the tree on their own to get viewers and funds.

Can anyone clarify it?

Thanks